Discovery 3x07 - 'Unification III' ~~ { Spoilers Within }

liamtech · 27-11-2020 1:13pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

I've tried to just judge on the merits of a Trek show and stay away from the over the top criticism but this is finally the episode that may have tipped me over to the "not real Trek" brigade

Id agree with you completely although i was probably tipped over a few weeks back -

I hated the 'Not Real Trek' brigade as it was incredibly obnoxious and arrogant in its presumption to judge (and i couldnt stand the nit picking either - ok the Klingons look different - wow, how unprecedented, cause of course they have never changed before)- that said we are all entitled to our opinion

For comparison - Compare this season with season two Discovery, and the Mandalorian this year (a three way comparison up to date as of this morning)

Season 2 Disco

Something serious going on with Saru
Ok time travel might be involved#
Section 31 are involved]
Who or what is control
Pike is amazing!
Whats the deal with Tilly and her imaginary friend

Possibly slightly weak at times but still enough to keep us interested - re-watched a few high spots and got knee deep in speculation as to whats going on

Mandalorian
Lots of things in play

-Thrawn is out there

-Gideon is there too, is he in league with Thrawn

-The lab - was that Snoke

-Baby Yoda's back story

-Is the Emperor gonna appear

-Bobba Fett is alive

-Asoka is back!

Lots of plot lines at play!! and i havent even named them all!

Disco season 3

Michaels mam
Michaels Boyfriend
Michaels relationship with Vulans
Michaels relationship with Georgiou
Tilly is first Officer
The Burn

Only one im interested in is the Burn and we are being drip fed on this, and its getting very old now -

Discovery this season has nose dived in my opinion - its bordering on pathetic, i havent felt this bad about trek since enterprise season 2/3 - and that ended badly

Rawr · 27-11-2020 1:17pm

I actually don't mind Tilly as first officer. Past couple of episodes made it look like having Tilly as Saru's First Officer would kind of work, their banter sort of felt like that kind of paring. However, if the role turns out to be permanent she'll need a higher rank or we end up with a situation sillier than when Ensign Kim somehow outranked most of Voyager.

Glad the mother thing is over, and part of me is glad that this is a bottle episode. They phoned in Trill, I shudder to think what they would have done with Vulkan.
It continues to annoy me how blantant the script has become at pointing towards Micheal as the driving force and solution to pretty much everything. Like I've mentioned before I really don't want to watch Star Trek: Michael.

I had somewhat hoped that the Romulan Empire might still be a thing, but I guess that is finished now. I still hold out some hope of Borg or Dominion related shenanigans, but not a lot. If they just hadn't leaned into the Michael stuff so much this might have been an ok standard Star Trek episode, but it came across as a bit tedious.

I think it might be time for me to finally stop watching and maybe revisit when the whole lot is uploaded. Lately I'm mostly watching so that I can visit these Boards without fear of spoiler...but that doesn't feel like enough of an excuse anymore. I'm quite sad that it has come to this. I usually live in some hope that things can get better, and Lower Decks really raised my hopes for modern Star Trek. But weekly doses of Discovery have become weekly disappointments.

I can live in hope that maybe CBS will one day consider giving Trek production to another studio and on that day maybe we'll get some enjoyable Trek.

Sesshoumaru · 27-11-2020 1:47pm

a_squirrelman wrote: »

Just watched it *sigh*.

Sooooooo much sighing/crying/whispering, can Burnham just speak like a normal person instead of "breathing" her words.

As someone who usually eyerolls the haters and is happy for ANY new Trek that was utter utter s**te

As someone who enjoyed the episode, I will give you the "breathing" her words is getting a little annoying. I'm hoping we'll see less of that now that the writers seem to be moving on from her questioning her place and the rest of the crew getting to grips with jumping into the future.

corkie · 27-11-2020 2:53pm

Weekly season recap, but was in two minds if to post it.

7 Episodes gone.
* 2 Season pilot episodes and 4 problems of the week (incl E02)
* 1 filler x06
* 1 Multi Series arc episode (paying homage) x07

Mysteries of the season so far: -

Burn ~~ Slowly collecting info/leads ~~ Black-boxes + Ni'Var (SB-19) Data
Music/Rhyme/Melody ~~ Not mentioned in 2 episodes
Terralysium and Gabrielle Burnham ~~ Well we know about Mum, but not the planet and why not seen?
Georgiou & S31 ~~ What is happening to her at present? And how to get her there <<< Trailer
leads to development next episode.
Adira ~~ What happened with her medical checkup/briefing? ~~ Overlooked for E06 and unseen E07
Detmer ~~ Health/PTSD ~~ Was this to show how the crew in general are coping (as someone suggested)?

Spock never spoke of his sister (classified at end of S02) across trek series, so why did the Ni'Var know about her at all. Years in the future?

of Georgiou talking with Culber.

CramCycle · 27-11-2020 3:21pm

Far better than most this season, still too much of crying Burnham, was she ever really on Vulcan?!? They nodded to the fact that they have alot of mistakes and hastily retconned aload of issues into one show. Its not great but better than trying to fix them over the rest of the season.

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

So I enjoyed the scenes with Saru and the President, could have done with a lot more of that. And the idea of the Federation having over expanded and placed too many demands is a good one. Kind of ties back to the start of Insurrection (or Nemesis, can't remmeber which) when they were inducting new members quite quickly after the Dominion war. Other than that this was one of the most emotional episodes to date, and in my opinion not in a good way.

Definetly, very well done.

[*]Burnhams mother in the Qowat Milat, fine I'll go along with that

Its BS but it gets the crying and thoughts about her mum out of the show really quickly and also made her the type that we could understand Michael not looking her up to often. I see that Michael inherited her overacting from her mum in the last scene.

[*]Tilly as first officer, nope, no nada.

Acting, she was good as acting captain in teh mirror universe, she makes the tough calls for her when needed and as others have said, Saru can trust her. Also alot of people forget that Discovery in season 1 made it very clear they were not like other ships in regards rank, seniority and how things operate thanks to mirror captain guy.

[*]How does a recently minted ensign being the first officer not annoy at least one senior crew member

Acting first officer

[*]No problem with the science institute proceedings stuff, but too long and just not interesting

Basically TNG stuff here

[*]Never bothered me before this episode, but Burnham just whispers way too much in this one, which is irritating in itself, but really, really poor to be doing when making any form of presentation or argument

So apparently in teh year she has forgotten how ot be calm, assertive and confident, I blame the writers here.

[*]Same issues as with the third episode on Earth. Show me more of what's going on with the planet and what they're up to, less Michael saves everyone

Not enough time with the ark but it would have been nice to have a two parter to go into it more.

[*]Is this the most amount of crying in any Trek episode to date?

Does Michael ever stop crying anymore?

liamtech wrote: »

[*]How does Vulcan record Spocks dissapearance? This is obviously Prime timeline so prime spock vanished right after the romulan supernova

If they done that, it would have read to much like lip service.

[*]How/When did reunification actually occur, and what is the status of the Romulan Singularity powered fleet

That would have been interesting

[*]Why did the Vulcans believe their experiment caused the burn, this was never clarified

Yeah, something very sketch going on there.

[*]The vulcans expressed no interest in acquiring Spore Drive technology

Distrust of the federation

[*]If you must include Burnhams mum, ok - i need more information as to why she is now vulcan alligned- slightly touched on but not enough

Nothing more than thy gave her sanctuary and she liked it there., it also happily mutes that strand and we hopefully can ignore it going forward.

[*]Michael is such a legend - even when she is demoted shes still a legend
[*]Michael is the only one who can get things done

To be far, this is the first episode this season where there has been a legitimate reason to use Michael.

[*]The vulcans revere Michael too! She really is all that

to be fair, I didn't get that impression

I find this series in general tedious, and boring. And despite the season high of episode 5, this is the weakest season so far. And i honestly dont believe discovery will last if the writers keep telling us to be interested in one character, who i started off disliking, grew to hate, and am working toward despising

Funnily, despite the amount to dislike, this has been one of the better episodes, very TNG like in many ways

FutureGuy wrote: »

Someone needs firing on the writing team. It pains me because I am really enjoying the reset for the show but it takes a moment of complete idiocy in the writing to undo things - two weeks ago, Georgio blinks at holograms to stop them working. Get out of it.

EDIT: Barkley must be spinning in his grave.

That was really, really stupid, I mean it actually hurt.

This said, jesus, how stupid is Burnham, that Tilly explained what a bunch of us figured out while she said it last episode that 3 points wasn't enough. Michael is really starting to remind me of that manager most of us had once who seemed competent for the most part and then in a split second you realise they were faking it the whole time.

PhiloCypher · 27-11-2020 4:25pm

The writers need to stop aiming for broad emotions in every episode, that's fine, even required in a movie as you have 2 hours to make an impact . In a 15 episode tv shows its absolutely exhausting. By all means put a character through an emotional wringer once or twice a season, but they have the whole cast crying, hugging and cheering in every bloody episode.

flazio · 27-11-2020 6:07pm

At first I was also sceptical about Tilly becoming Number 1, but then I remembered there was a fine enlisted Chief Petty Officer who became Head of Engineering on both a Space Station and its attached Star Ship. He was worried when a Ferengi cadet became an Ensign he'd have to address him as Sir. But plenty of Ensigns, Lieutenants and Lieutenant Commanders took engineering orders from him.

H3llR4iser · 27-11-2020 6:43pm

flazio wrote: »

At first I was also sceptical about Tilly becoming Number 1, but then I remembered there was a fine enlisted Chief Petty Officer who became Head of Engineering on both a Space Station and its attached Star Ship. He was worried when a Ferengi cadet became an Ensign he'd have to address him as Sir. But plenty of Ensigns, Lieutenants and Lieutenant Commanders took engineering orders from him.

But O'Brien was actually overqualified compared to his rank and had experience that would put most Commanders and even some Captains to shame (I don't remember if it was ever explained in detail why he never went for officership). Plus, his role was strictly technical, so his case was one of experience and competence outweighing rank.

Tilly has nothing speaking for herself, except the "Mary Sue" syndrome. A "girl with a dream". Saturday morning cartoon plot level, and not the good ones - I'm talking Paw Patrol crud.

As I said before, it's very clear the writers are trying to make the character a "proxy" for a certain slice of the audience - the same demographic who identified in Lieutenant Broccol...ehrm, Barclay. However where Barclay's portrayal was spot on (an outstanding engineer whose skills were dismissed by others due to his character faults), Tilly ended up being much more similar that one kid in school who always screwed everything up - yet somehow had all teachers saying he/she was "great" and "full of potential" for no reason whatsoever.

And had I been Stamets, Nilsson, "sit next to pilot girl girl" or Detmer, I'd have asked for a transfer instantly - even if the only place available would've been on a human waste transport.

Can't help having the sneaking suspicion this is all a writing setup to have Saru fall from grace by the end of the season.

CramCycle · 27-11-2020 7:24pm

Is she not meant to be one of the smartest people on the ship? Or did I misunderstand her role in the science team, with the ability to stand in when needed. She was chosen for contact scenarios due to her EQ, pretended, quite well to captain a ship in the mirror universe. Was under going the officer training and so on.

I'm not saying she is the right person for the job but there aren't any other candidates from the staff we have seen who would be suitable. The dinner with his supposedly senior crew (which Tilly was at), she was the only one who acted in a way be fitting a first officer, no one else filled that void.

27-11-2020 8:29pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Is she not meant to be one of the smartest people on the ship? Or did I misunderstand her role in the science team, with the ability to stand in when needed. She was chosen for contact scenarios due to her EQ, pretended, quite well to captain a ship in the mirror universe. Was under going the officer training and so on.

I'm not saying she is the right person for the job but there aren't any other candidates from the staff we have seen who would be suitable. The dinner with his supposedly senior crew (which Tilly was at), she was the only one who acted in a way be fitting a first officer, no one else filled that void.

She's one of five or six characters in the crew that the casual viewer can name without going to imdb. That's her main qualification.

In the time it took her to make the decision, Saru could have picked a proper number one. Like the blond lady who used to be a robot. Or grudge.

breezy1985 · 27-11-2020 8:32pm

flazio wrote: »

At first I was also sceptical about Tilly becoming Number 1, but then I remembered there was a fine enlisted Chief Petty Officer who became Head of Engineering on both a Space Station and its attached Star Ship. He was worried when a Ferengi cadet became an Ensign he'd have to address him as Sir. But plenty of Ensigns, Lieutenants and Lieutenant Commanders took engineering orders from him.

Always with the whataboutery. Judge Discovery on the merits of the episode and not what DS9 or TNG or Dr. Whoever did

breezy1985 · 27-11-2020 8:37pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Is she not meant to be one of the smartest people on the ship? Or did I misunderstand her role in the science team, with the ability to stand in when needed. She was chosen for contact scenarios due to her EQ, pretended, quite well to captain a ship in the mirror universe. Was under going the officer training and so on.

I'm not saying she is the right person for the job but there aren't any other candidates from the staff we have seen who would be suitable. The dinner with his supposedly senior crew (which Tilly was at), she was the only one who acted in a way be fitting a first officer, no one else filled that void.

She is the only one because the show has done a terrible job of making real characters of any of the crew. They are just background high fivers, back patters and circle jerkers

alchemist33 · 27-11-2020 8:55pm

Maybe Till got the job because (remember this?) she's the fastest runner on the ship?

But inevitably Saru will get incapacitated and she'll have to take over for an episode so they can show us she's a leader, despite not showing any leadership so far, and needing the Star Trek equivalent of the crew giving her a "Congratulations on your promotion!" card before she said yes. She's the Everygirl who can get to the top despite her anxiety and lack of ambition.

And Saru steals every scene he's in. Give him an episode, dammit!

Rawr · 27-11-2020 9:21pm

alchemist33 wrote: »

. Give him an episode series, dammit!

Fixed your post there

But yea...saving grace of the show I fell is Captain Saru.

PirateShampoo · 27-11-2020 9:27pm

alchemist33 wrote: »

Maybe Till got the job because (remember this?) she's the fastest runner on the ship?

But inevitably Saru will get incapacitated and she'll have to take over for an episode so they can show us she's a leader, despite not showing any leadership so far, and needing the Star Trek equivalent of the crew giving her a "Congratulations on your promotion!" card before she said yes. She's the Everygirl who can get to the top despite her anxiety and lack of ambition.

Or actually being a member of the bridge crew.

Saru will go down and the ship will explode while Tilly asks "What's this button do"

CramCycle · 27-11-2020 9:43pm

Deleted User wrote: »

She's one of five or six characters in the crew that the casual viewer can name without going to imdb. That's her main qualification.

In the time it took her to make the decision, Saru could have picked a proper number one. Like the blond lady who used to be a robot. Or grudge.

Blond lady is about the only one who might be suited as she has been given the conn on a few occasions but let's not forget, she didn't exist 8 episodes or so ago. The rest of his senior crew appear to be a pair of high fiving college friends, a PTSD sufferer, her best mate, and the rest aren't bridge crew. Saru doesn't even call the chief medical officer or other senior staff to his dinner but this crowd. My only excuse is that Discovery was like this from the way Mirror captain designed it in season 1 to be. I'm not convinced they have anyone capable of being first officer and out of the ones we have seen, Tilly is actually the only candidate or a new previously unseen character. That's the world they have given us.

breezy1985 wrote: »

She is the only one because the show has done a terrible job of making real characters of any of the crew. They are just background high fivers, back patters and circle jerkers

Why do they all cry or high five, all the time, how is there no in-between.

breezy1985 · 27-11-2020 9:46pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Blond lady is about the only one who might be suited as she has been given the conn on a few occasions but let's not forget, she didn't exist 8 episodes or so ago. The rest of his senior crew appear to be a pair of high fiving college friends, a PTSD sufferer, her best mate, and the rest aren't bridge crew. Saru doesn't even call the chief medical officer or other senior staff to his dinner but this crowd. My only excuse is that Discovery was like this from the way Mirror captain designed it in season 1 to be. I'm not convinced they have anyone capable of being first officer and out of the ones we have seen, Tilly is actually the only candidate or a new previously unseen character. That's the world they have given us.

Why do they all cry or high five, all the time, how is there no in-between.

Annoying thing is I really like this crew the few good moments we get with them. Maybe Burnham should f off with book and Discovery get a spin off show

IrishZeus · 27-11-2020 10:18pm

Did they actually put in a line saying Spock only became the man he was due to Burnham....? Is it just me or that an insult beyond compare to past Trek

breezy1985 · 27-11-2020 10:36pm

IrishZeus wrote: »

Did they actually put in a line saying Spock only became the man he was due to Burnham....? Is it just me or that an insult beyond compare to past Trek

Was insinuated first by a Burnham quote and later by her mother

Stark · 27-11-2020 10:58pm

In the middle of watching at the moment.

Tilly... WTF?

Stark · 27-11-2020 11:06pm

Ah, Qowat Milat , nice Picard tie-in.

Wait, Burnham's mother... WTF?

breezy1985 · 27-11-2020 11:21pm

Stark wrote: »

In the middle of watching at the moment.

Tilly... WTF?

Don't worry it gets worse

Banana Republic 1 · 27-11-2020 11:51pm

Have just watched 7.’Came in to the episode expecting similar to last week but now I’m furious, as much as one can be about a tv show that is.

I’m going to outline how I felt at key moments,

Admiral - send a message to Vulcan telling them to expect Mikey Spock saviour of the universe is on the wyy Mildly annoyed.

Tilly becoming first officer; ffs
Tilly bursting out crying during, ah god sake
When the Vulcan women was describing how Mikey Spocks advocate would cut her legs off: about time ffs.
The advocate turning out to be Mikey mother: aghh by the power of Zues.
Stamets giving Tilly a bollocking in the spore room: Good
The punch in the ovaries Mikeys mother gave her at the hearing; god finally.
Realising that the mother was only setting Mikey to take the high morale ground: agh Jesus H.
When they announced Spock only became the man he did because of Mikey: infuriated

This was the greatest load of codswallop I’ve ever seen,

GreeBo · 28-11-2020 12:23am

I'd have accepted Tilly if they had done some level of promoting her prior to this, but they basically gave Wesley rykers job, it's insane.

I liked the first 10-15 mins, it was a bit clunky but they explained away some of the obvious questions (like the triangulatiom nonsense) we all had, but then it jumped the shark for me.
Burnham's mother was just bad writing
The logical debate that turned into Jerry Springer was nonsense
The president just giving the stuff away anyway because she likes Burnham. Come on!
The AI and georgiou not getting a mention seems like a miss
The admiral suddenly thinking the burn is vital to understand.
The Vulcans misinterpreting their sb19 data.. Really?!

Oh and for the love of God, stop crying!
If you have gone to the effort of having female leads, don't make them emotional snowflakes!
Janeway never did any of this bull**** and was a great character and leader.

brightspark · 28-11-2020 12:29am

GreeBo wrote: »

I'd have accepted Tilly if they had done some level of promoting her prior to this, but they basically gave Wesley rykers job, it's insane.

There was the mirror Tilly who was a Captain in the Terran Empire? Perhaps her character does have the potential?

IrishZeus · 28-11-2020 12:30am

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

The advocate turning out to be Mikey mother: aghh by the power of Zues.

Don’t go dragging me into this!

Banana Republic 1 · 28-11-2020 12:43am

brightspark wrote: »

There was the mirror Tilly who was a Captain in the Terran Empire? Perhaps her character does have the potential?

I respectfully disagree

28-11-2020 12:50am

It's good rubbish. A show to watch and complain about until the Pike show appears.

Fingers crossed that'll be better. But I liked Enterprise, so what do I know.

Banana Republic 1 · 28-11-2020 1:05am

a_squirrelman wrote: »

Just watched it *sigh*.

Sooooooo much sighing/crying/whispering, can Burnham just speak like a normal person instead of "breathing" her words.

As someone who usually eyerolls the haters and is happy for ANY new Trek that was utter utter s**te

She is still in the walking dead character mode

Banana Republic 1 · 28-11-2020 1:17am

a_squirrelman wrote: »

Just watched it *sigh*.

Sooooooo much sighing/crying/whispering, can Burnham just speak like a normal person instead of "breathing" her words.

As someone who usually eyerolls the haters and is happy for ANY new Trek that was utter utter s**te

Speaking as a hater of this incarnation this was by far the amongst the worst pieces of trek I’ve ever seen much worse than any Vic Fontaine episode, well almost. At least he had the decency to take several disruptor blasts to the chest but I have a feeling the only way Mikey Spock is going out is if the show is canceled.

Discovery 3x07 - 'Unification III' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

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Discovery 3x07 - 'Unification III' ~~ { Spoilers Within }