Discovery 3x07 - 'Unification III' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

Stark

Ah, Qowat Milat , nice Picard tie-in.

Wait, Burnham's mother... WTF?

breezy1985

Stark wrote: »

In the middle of watching at the moment.

Tilly... WTF?

Don't worry it gets worse

Banana Republic 1

Have just watched 7.’Came in to the episode expecting similar to last week but now I’m furious, as much as one can be about a tv show that is.

I’m going to outline how I felt at key moments,

Admiral - send a message to Vulcan telling them to expect Mikey Spock saviour of the universe is on the wyy Mildly annoyed.

Tilly becoming first officer; ffs
Tilly bursting out crying during, ah god sake
When the Vulcan women was describing how Mikey Spocks advocate would cut her legs off: about time ffs.
The advocate turning out to be Mikey mother: aghh by the power of Zues.
Stamets giving Tilly a bollocking in the spore room: Good
The punch in the ovaries Mikeys mother gave her at the hearing; god finally.
Realising that the mother was only setting Mikey to take the high morale ground: agh Jesus H.
When they announced Spock only became the man he did because of Mikey: infuriated

This was the greatest load of codswallop I’ve ever seen,

GreeBo

I'd have accepted Tilly if they had done some level of promoting her prior to this, but they basically gave Wesley rykers job, it's insane.

I liked the first 10-15 mins, it was a bit clunky but they explained away some of the obvious questions (like the triangulatiom nonsense) we all had, but then it jumped the shark for me.
Burnham's mother was just bad writing
The logical debate that turned into Jerry Springer was nonsense
The president just giving the stuff away anyway because she likes Burnham. Come on!
The AI and georgiou not getting a mention seems like a miss
The admiral suddenly thinking the burn is vital to understand.
The Vulcans misinterpreting their sb19 data.. Really?!


Oh and for the love of God, stop crying!
If you have gone to the effort of having female leads, don't make them emotional snowflakes!
Janeway never did any of this bull**** and was a great character and leader.

brightspark

GreeBo wrote: »

I'd have accepted Tilly if they had done some level of promoting her prior to this, but they basically gave Wesley rykers job, it's insane.

There was the mirror Tilly who was a Captain in the Terran Empire? Perhaps her character does have the potential?

IrishZeus

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

The advocate turning out to be Mikey mother: aghh by the power of Zues.

Don’t go dragging me into this!

Banana Republic 1

brightspark wrote: »

There was the mirror Tilly who was a Captain in the Terran Empire? Perhaps her character does have the potential?

I respectfully disagree

It's good rubbish. A show to watch and complain about until the Pike show appears.

Fingers crossed that'll be better. But I liked Enterprise, so what do I know.

Banana Republic 1

a_squirrelman wrote: »

Just watched it *sigh*.

Sooooooo much sighing/crying/whispering, can Burnham just speak like a normal person instead of "breathing" her words.

As someone who usually eyerolls the haters and is happy for ANY new Trek that was utter utter s**te

She is still in the walking dead character mode

Banana Republic 1

a_squirrelman wrote: »

Just watched it *sigh*.

Sooooooo much sighing/crying/whispering, can Burnham just speak like a normal person instead of "breathing" her words.

As someone who usually eyerolls the haters and is happy for ANY new Trek that was utter utter s**te

Speaking as a hater of this incarnation this was by far the amongst the worst pieces of trek I’ve ever seen much worse than any Vic Fontaine episode, well almost. At least he had the decency to take several disruptor blasts to the chest but I have a feeling the only way Mikey Spock is going out is if the show is canceled.

Banana Republic 1

liamtech wrote: »

Id agree with you completely although i was probably tipped over a few weeks back -

I hated the 'Not Real Trek' brigade as it was incredibly obnoxious and arrogant in its presumption to judge (and i couldnt stand the nit picking either - ok the Klingons look different - wow, how unprecedented, cause of course they have never changed before)- that said we are all entitled to our opinion

For comparison - Compare this season with season two Discovery, and the Mandalorian this year (a three way comparison up to date as of this morning)

Season 2 Disco

• Something serious going on with Saru
• Ok time travel might be involved#
• Section 31 are involved]
• Who or what is control
• Pike is amazing!
• Whats the deal with Tilly and her imaginary friend

Possibly slightly weak at times but still enough to keep us interested - re-watched a few high spots and got knee deep in speculation as to whats going on

Mandalorian
Lots of things in play

-Thrawn is out there

-Gideon is there too, is he in league with Thrawn

-The lab - was that Snoke

-Baby Yoda's back story

-Is the Emperor gonna appear

-Bobba Fett is alive

-Asoka is back!

Lots of plot lines at play!! and i havent even named them all!

Disco season 3

• Michaels mam
• Michaels Boyfriend
• Michaels relationship with Vulans
• Michaels relationship with Georgiou
• Tilly is first Officer
• The Burn

Only one im interested in is the Burn and we are being drip fed on this, and its getting very old now -

Discovery this season has nose dived in my opinion - its bordering on pathetic, i havent felt this bad about trek since enterprise season 2/3 - and that ended badly

Welcome to the club, you do have to renounce Vic Fontaine though.

a_squirrelman

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Speaking as a hater of this incarnation this was by far the amongst the worst pieces of trek I’ve ever seen much worse than any Vic Fontaine episode, well almost. At least he had the decency to take several disruptor blasts to the chest but I have a feeling the only way Mikey Spock is going out is if the show is canceled.

Careful pally, I liked Vic.

Smacruairi

I liked precisely the first 17 mins of that. Mystery at nivar, clear stakes... Then the admiral literally said "tell them Michael Burnham is coming"...

Just because you wink and nod at the audience - Book "your messianic complex" - doesn't mean you can then have character exploit aforementioned complex without annoying people.

Burnham arrived, invoked an ancient custom without informing her boss which could have made matters far worse, but got away with it because she is lucky her mum became a warrior monk and she whisper cried through everything.

That doesn't even mention Stamets immediately liking Tilly as xo... No.. That cynical sassy POS would not take orders from a rookie,let alone lead a you go girl party.

Michael will not follow one order from tilly.

Everything with saru and vulcun lady was good. Admiral was grand.

What happened the nacelles, they looked attached in this ep, thought they were detached?

This show angers me more than WWE, I know I shouldn't watch, it insults my intelligence, I'm just stockholmed in.

GSPfan

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Speaking as a hater of this incarnation this was by far the amongst the worst pieces of trek I’ve ever seen much worse than any Vic Fontaine episode, well almost. At least he had the decency to take several disruptor blasts to the chest but I have a feeling the only way Mikey Spock is going out is if the show is canceled.

If anyone has any hope of this show being anything other than a Michael Burnham centric show then those people are not paying attention.

The only way this show ends is with her becoming Captain of Discovery or by dying in a universe saving heroic act. It’s her show.

I bet this runs for 5 years and she annoyingly whisper cries her way to the end. Whoever is directing or not directing her to act the way she acts needs to be slapped.

~Rebel~

That... was tough going.

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

I can't help feel that the writer was going for a Drumhead/Measure of a Man type episode, and it's just not up to that quality.

This sums up my feeling on it really... you could tell they were trying to invoke that style of Trek, but those episodes were thoughtful and well written, and most importantly actually had something to say. This one felt like someone had skimmed quickly through those, figured "nerds dig courtrooms" and scribbled this one out. Really, the whole escapade was just an excuse for Burnham to do yet more soul searching. Nothing else mattered.

Felt like Burnham didn't ask her Mom anywhere near enough questions about what the fuck she was doing there too.

Tilly... sigh.

And on top of all that, they really do seem to be suggesting that nobody, in 120 years, did this most basic bit of research that Michael's done. No-one, in 120 years, thought to check a few of the ship records for clues. I mean, it's not like they were hard to come by - hundreds of thousands of ships exploded, there must've been black boxes in every local garage sale! Sure even now, 120 years after the event, Burnham on her own has managed to pick up 3 of them in the space of a year. The fact this easily assembled piece of information seems to be news to everyone really hurts my brain.

Side query - how the bejesus in Burnham's year hanging out around the place with a slipstream ship did she not bother to go visit either - or even just ask about - Earth or Vulcan? Her two homes...

Slydice

AMKC wrote: »

Which way? To the future or to be before the Burn sometime?

Hadn't thought about forwards at the time but after seeing your question..
yeah I'm not sure now. Could be either way. I'd been thinking it could be a go back and undo things arc. Really doesn't have to be though.

CramCycle

breezy1985 wrote: »

Annoying thing is I really like this crew the few good moments we get with them. Maybe Burnham should f off with book and Discovery get a spin off show

Also, anyone else annoyed with the scale of Book in his ship, and then the size of the ship in the cargo bay, then the ship must be tiny. I'll be honest, I haven't done much looking about the size compared to other ships. I would have in previous shows. It just seemed small, maybe I'm wrong.

breezy1985

CramCycle wrote: »

Also, anyone else annoyed with the scale of Book in his ship, and then the size of the ship in the cargo bay, then the ship must be tiny. I'll be honest, I haven't done much looking about the size compared to other ships. I would have in previous shows. It just seemed small, maybe I'm wrong.

Bigger inside than out. This tech was shown in a 29th century ship on ENT

Stark

Smacruairi wrote: »

That doesn't even mention Stamets immediately liking Tilly as xo... No.. That cynical sassy POS would not take orders from a rookie,let alone lead a you go girl party.

The scene in the spore drive chamber was perfect. Stamets showing all the emotions of shock, disgust, bewilderment. Then that "Just say yes" scene was just weird.

ilovesmybrick

~Rebel~ wrote: »

This sums up my feeling on it really... you could tell they were trying to invoke that style of Trek, but those episodes were thoughtful and well written, and most importantly actually had something to say. This one felt like someone had skimmed quickly through those, figured "nerds dig courtrooms" and scribbled this one out. Really, the whole escapade was just an excuse for Burnham to do yet more soul searching. Nothing else mattered.

This seems to be the consensus by some of the incredibly positive reviews I've seen online, that it's a return to older style Trek dramas, and I just don't see it.There was no legal/scientific/logical argument, no actual debate, the entire concept essentially came down to needing to point out all of Burnhams adventures and having a little cry. I think what has me coming down far harder on this episode is that you can see exactly what they were trying to do, and every Trek series has some courtroom episodes, and they failed miserably in their attempt. Either they should have spent more time putting together where Burnhams argument is going to come from, or they have a b plot looking into the divisions between the Vulcan/Romulan quorum. There is a reason that is the basic structure of all Trek courtroom episodes-moral argument, or investigation into the prosecutors. It works.

I know it's a different show, and technically not comparable, but after watching the Mandalorian last night I did say to my partner that I never thought it would come to the day when I thought a Star Wars show was far stronger than Trek. I like Discovery, I'll keep watching Discovery, but it's just very, very middling and I do struggle to find episodes that are better than "eh, grand". I'm finding with the Mandalorian, two seasons in and not far behind Discovery in terms of episodes, I can't think of a particularly bad episode off the top of my head.

Banana Republic 1

Stark wrote: »

The scene in the spore drive chamber was perfect. Stamets showing all the emotions of shock, disgust, bewilderment. Then that "Just say yes" scene was just weird.

It was a to line up the “twist” at the end just like mikeys mother lined her up to take the high morale ground.

Banana Republic 1

breezy1985 wrote: »

Was insinuated first by a Burnham quote and later by her mother

I thought the mother was deliberately hamming up that piece of dialogue just recall her face. Wether that was the actress doing it off her own or she was told to do it I don’t know but she did deliver a line just before “ is this what you were like when you were 12” to Mikey.

This show does unite most trek fans in their hatred of it and thus attracts them to watch it because we can’t help but watch a car crash. Trek fans then go onto social media and unwittingly make this show trend.

What I don’t understand is how the screenwriters think that creating cliche charcters like women who burst into tears constantly does anything to attract new viewers.

CramCycle

breezy1985 wrote: »

Bigger inside than out. This tech was shown in a 29th century ship on ENT

Do you have an episode number, sounds more like a Tardis than a Federation ship.

ilovesmybrick

CramCycle wrote: »

Do you have an episode number, sounds more like a Tardis than a Federation ship.

Future Tense, Enterprise. As far as I recall it was a reasonably good episode.

breezy1985

CramCycle wrote: »

Do you have an episode number, sounds more like a Tardis than a Federation ship.

It was exactly like a tardis. Small shuttle with massive inside.

I'm not a huge ENT fan so I can't remember the episode

corkie

breezy1985 wrote: »

Bigger inside than out. This tech was shown in a 29th century ship on ENT

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

Future Tense, Enterprise. As far as I recall it was a reasonably good episode.

breezy1985 wrote: »

It was exactly like a tardis. Small shuttle with massive inside.

I'm not a huge ENT fan so I can't remember the episode

Future Tense (episode)

Tired Gardener

I think if I mentally paint over the words Star Trek: Discovery, with Michael Burnham: Space whisper, the saviour. It might help to actually remember that this isn't Star Trek.

Oh well, at least DS9 and TNG are all on Netflix...

mikhail

I've given it a day to mull it over, but I'm done. Someone PM me if they kill off Burnham.

GreeBo

Stark wrote: »

The scene in the spore drive chamber was perfect. Stamets showing all the emotions of shock, disgust, bewilderment. Then that "Just say yes" scene was just weird.

The soundproof, private chat where they then had a perfect conversation with a character who was outside it?!:rolleyes:

GreeBo

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

This seems to be the consensus by some of the incredibly positive reviews I've seen online, that it's a return to older style Trek dramas, and I just don't see it.There was no legal/scientific/logical argument, no actual debate, the entire concept essentially came down to needing to point out all of Burnhams adventures and having a little cry. I think what has me coming down far harder on this episode is that you can see exactly what they were trying to do, and every Trek series has some courtroom episodes, and they failed miserably in their attempt. Either they should have spent more time putting together where Burnhams argument is going to come from, or they have a b plot looking into the divisions between the Vulcan/Romulan quorum. There is a reason that is the basic structure of all Trek courtroom episodes-moral argument, or investigation into the prosecutors. It works.

I know it's a different show, and technically not comparable, but after watching the Mandalorian last night I did say to my partner that I never thought it would come to the day when I thought a Star Wars show was far stronger than Trek. I like Discovery, I'll keep watching Discovery, but it's just very, very middling and I do struggle to find episodes that are better than "eh, grand". I'm finding with the Mandalorian, two seasons in and not far behind Discovery in terms of episodes, I can't think of a particularly bad episode off the top of my head.

Yeah, compare that courtroom to any of the voyager or that ones, night and day.
It was like a box ticking exercise where nobody understood the point of the exercise.

H3llR4iser

Smacruairi wrote: »

I liked precisely the first 17 mins of that. Mystery at nivar, clear stakes...

That's been my feeling with every single episode of this season so far. Good start with interesting premises, maybe one or two references to events or places in the Star Trek canon, made me go "oh wait, maybe this one is finally good!" - then it starts going downhill.

Specifically, except maybe the first episode, I found every single episode so far to feature a middle segment that is pure filler - to the point I had to resist the urge to skip forward. Example, the whole tour of the Syndicate facility in ep.6, before they rescue Book...completely pointless and devoid of any exposition - be it around the story, the characters or whatnot.

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

This seems to be the consensus by some of the incredibly positive reviews I've seen online, that it's a return to older style Trek dramas, and I just don't see it.

A LOT of discussion places online are baffling like that; It's basically the "any new Trek is good Trek!" suckers, who decide to put their hands on their ears and scream in order not to hear the criticism. I was looking around yesterday - there's an "unofficial" Discovery Reddit that is pure pathetic slobbering of the highest order. You will not find ONE single criticism to any aspects of the show - and then I realized why, the mods just kill the messages. Actually they went as far as defining this episode as "one of the best Star Trek episodes ever". I kid you not.

The biggest achievement of the show's production has been to basically shout down any criticism of the show with screams of racism/misogyny/whatever.

GreeBo wrote: »

Yeah, compare that courtroom to any of the voyager or that ones, night and day.
It was like a box ticking exercise where nobody understood the point of the exercise.

Precisely - and the box ticking has been with Discovery since the beginning; The first season has pretty much a "self enclosed mandatory technobabble moment" each episode - and it was so obvious and syncopated in the flow, it really looked silly. Be it Stamets explaining the spore drive, or Burnham showing how much better an engineer she is than the lead engineers, it was always clearly marked, as if the actors were reading a list of madey-uppey sciency sounding terms.

Exacly as if somebody went "oooh, these silly nerds like pretend science talk, ok, how does 'preponderation subdimensional matrix' sound?", with no understanding how the secret to it is exactly to NOT make the "technobabble" especially relevant in the discussion - so that something completely made up sounded at least plausible in the context.

corkie

corkie wrote: »

Spock never spoke of his sister (classified at end of S02) across trek series, so why did the Ni'Var know about her at all. Years in the future?

GreeBo wrote: »

The soundproof, private chat where they then had a perfect conversation with a character who was outside it?!:rolleyes:

When was it ever said that it was soundproof? Georgiou talked to Leland last season when he was locked in it? (Probably activated an Intercom?)

Sesshoumaru

To those who are saying they've had enough - Y'all will be back next week posting

Next season Burnham's whispering will have evolved to such an extent that she will only be able to communicate using a type of sign-language that she and Spock invented as children. The whole universe will be forced to learn it also. Mirror's too.

CastorTroy

Previous points and when being right can be a bad thing or simply correct:
Tilly may be made first officer. Yeah I would've preferred not to be right about this suggestion. Even if it's acting, we usually seeing acting become permanent, like Saru. Which is why you pick the experienced person. Though she did travel through a wormhole, so where would Saru find anyone else that fits that criteria? Maybe she'll be like Kirk and just go from ensign to captain in only a couple steps. (Based on the Abrams-verse) I know in my job, if my team lead is out, their duties fall to a senior member of the team.

And the second point I made was Stargate telling me 3 points weren't enough. Glad to see I learned from a tv show while the Chief Science Officer, who grew up with a Vulcan education, was taught by an ensign. Maybe that's why she got the XO job.

During that quorum, I wouldn't have minded someone from the 3rd or 4th row shouting up "We can't hear you! Speak up!"

So did Saru have a thing for the president?

CastorTroy

Deleted User wrote: »

Next season Burnham's whispering will have evolved to such an extent that she will only be able to communicate using a type of sign-language that she and Spock invented as children. The whole universe will be forced to learn it also. Mirror's too.

Sounds like The 100 series.

CramCycle

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

Future Tense, Enterprise. As far as I recall it was a reasonably good episode.

breezy1985 wrote: »

It was exactly like a tardis. Small shuttle with massive inside.

I'm not a huge ENT fan so I can't remember the episode

Watched it today and it made me note two clear things, one, I never actually watched all of Enterprise and two, I knew more about all of the characters even though at this point I have seen more of Discovery.

It was an okay episode and it was nice that they simply refused to wrap up loose ends, they didn't know the answers and that was that.

ilovesmybrick

CramCycle wrote: »

It was an okay episode and it was nice that they simply refused to wrap up loose ends, they didn't know the answers and that was that.

Oh if you think that's a loose end they never wrapped up I'm guessing you've yet to see the magic AI space station that repairs ships! Dead Stop, great little episode....I may have rewatched a small bit of older Trek series during lockdown Mk 1!

corkie

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

Oh if you think that's a loose end they never wrapped up I'm guessing you've yet to see the magic AI space station that repairs ships! Dead Stop, great little episode....I may have rewatched a small bit of older Trek series during lockdown Mk 1!

Shows how good old trek shows where that I have good memories of that episode 18 years later. Discovery probably won't leave such an impression.

Dead Stop (episode)

S02E04 Dead Stop Episode aired 9 October 2002




Re-watched Season 2 of discovery recently and had forgotten most episodes in the year. General memories of the overall plot but not specific episodes.

De Bhál

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

To those who are saying they've had enough - Y'all will be back next week posting

Yep, that's me. Had a moan that I was giving up on it on the overall thread. Kept watching.

Still muck, although that episode was fairly Trekish. Too much yapping though.

"Say yes"
"Say yes"
"Say yes"

Jesus Christ

Banana Republic 1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Jesus Christ

How long before someone says Mikey is bigger than Jesus ?

Why isn't the blonde one the xo? Tilly is nice but makes no sense and is always crying. If there was a hr dept in the place they'd all be in trouble

Stop whispering, burnham. Thank god I have subtitles. Surprised nobody is pulling her up on it. I mean if it were real

Is this milat qoat people the ones from Picard

Yester

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

How long before someone says Mikey is bigger than Jesus ?

When they try to return to their own time they go too far into the past and Mikey becomes Jesus.

De Bhál

I assume someone on board is researching all the old sports results so when they get back they can live off the betting profits.

Biff's almanac.

The stakes are so much higher now? Than saving all sentient life in the universe?!

Jesus Mike burnham is even the saviour of spock now. Give me a break

"just say yes" lads if you need a prop up party for someone like this (crying again) maybe she shouldn't be xo

pah

Right I'm out, for real this time. I'll check back at the end of the season to see if it's improved but I just can't watch anymore. Few good episodes here and there but season 3 has been atrocious.

Nice to see Nimoy but the whole "how much was Spock who he was because of you Mikey" at the end just finished me off. I mean even within the continuity of it's own sh1t stirring retconning universe they didn't have a great relationship and they only reconciled for 5 minutes before she fuçked off to the future :mad: :mad:

GreeBo

corkie wrote: »

When was it ever said that it was soundproof? Georgiou talked to Leland last season when he was locked in it? (Probably activated an Intercom?)

What was the point of them going in there if it wasn't more private, I.e. soundproof?

AllForIt

I have to say that this season is beyond disappointing, it's actually totally c*rap.

I have been on here from time to time and never let rip like others cuz I did like some of it and so ignored things I'd be within my rights to criticise but I have now lost total interest in it altogether. Last weeks episode was the tipping point.

I probably will watch it till the end of the season but you know what, I hope it gets dismal ratings and consequently scrapped altogether. It's an embarrassment to the Star Trek franchise.

I'm watching it, now, out of a morbid curiosity around how bad it can get.

How do they manage to touch on so many good things and get them all so wrong. Vulcan's termination of membership, Vulcan/Romulan reunification (would have hoped Picard touched on this, to be honest), Vulcan society unrest after the reunification.

Because of course only Burnham can go to Ni'var (Vulcan FFS), of course the one time that others try to use her saviour-hood she tries to refuse.
Because of course her mother, in all the places in the universe (time and space), is on Vulcan.
Because of course her human mother gets accepted as a Romulan warrior nun.
Because of course Burnham (of 900 years ago tech) is the only one to see time discrepancies.
Because of course the newly unified society is ready to fall apart, but for a few words from Burnham.
Because they had to make Spock only be Spock because of his interaction with Burnham.