Discovery 3x07 - 'Unification III' ~~ { Spoilers Within }

corkie · 26-11-2020 9:02am #1

Discovery 3x07 - 'Unification III'

Just for a recap, here are links to memory-alpha breakdown of TNG episodes.

Unification I (episode)
Unification II (episode)

[TrekMovie] Before “Unification III” On ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ – A Look Back At Romulans, Vulcans And “Unification”

Sad Professor wrote: »

Folks, in relation to spoilers, you don't have to use spoiler tags in the episode threads. If someone hasn't seen the episode yet then they shouldn't be reading the thread, period. When it airs on Netflix doesn't matter. I would suggest that whoever starts the thread put a spoiler warning in the title. I'll add one to this now.

Warning: This thread will contain spoilers for the episode. Spoiler tags will not be used, so if you don't want to be spoiled read no further.
Please still spoiler tag information/leaks/theories on future episodes.

{ ** Spoilers Below ** }

ilovesmybrick · 26-11-2020 10:00am

So I enjoyed the scenes with Saru and the President, could have done with a lot more of that. And the idea of the Federation having over expanded and placed too many demands is a good one. Kind of ties back to the start of Insurrection (or Nemesis, can't remmeber which) when they were inducting new members quite quickly after the Dominion war. Other than that this was one of the most emotional episodes to date, and in my opinion not in a good way.

Burnhams mother in the Qowat Milat, fine I'll go along with that
Tilly as first officer, nope, no nada.
How does a recently minted ensign being the first officer not annoy at least one senior crew member
No problem with the science institute proceedings stuff, but too long and just not interesting
After ten minutes with Burnham the Romulans nearly split from the Vulcans, until Burnham takes away her request for information and now all is well again?
Never bothered me before this episode, but Burnham just whispers way too much in this one, which is irritating in itself, but really, really poor to be doing when making any form of presentation or argument
Same issues as with the third episode on Earth. Show me more of what's going on with the planet and what they're up to, less Michael saves everyone
I have never sighed as much and said f**k sake as much during an episode of Discovery
Is this the most amount of crying in any Trek episode to date?

Hopefully this is just a necessary connector to the second half that works better when watched in one run, but I did not enjoy this at all. There were some nice callbacks to TNG and PIC, and I liked the Nimoy footage, but I can't help feel that the writer was going for a Drumhead/Measure of a Man type episode, and it's just not up to that quality.

liamtech · 26-11-2020 11:27am

Yet again i find that this could have been one of the best. It could have covered so much ground, answered questions, and given insight to things that matter to fans

How does Vulcan record Spocks dissapearance? This is obviously Prime timeline so prime spock vanished right after the romulan supernova
How/When did reunification actually occur, and what is the status of the Romulan Singularity powered fleet
Why did the Vulcans believe their experiment caused the burn, this was never clarified
The vulcans expressed no interest in acquiring Spore Drive technology
If you must include Burnhams mum, ok - i need more information as to why she is now vulcan alligned- slightly touched on but not enough

Instead we got the usual

Michael is such a legend - even when she is demoted shes still a legend
Michael is the only one who can get things done
Michaels mother is involved
The vulcans revere Michael too! She really is all that
Tilly, barely an ensign, is now first officer

I find this series in general tedious, and boring. And despite the season high of episode 5, this is the weakest season so far. And i honestly dont believe discovery will last if the writers keep telling us to be interested in one character, who i started off disliking, grew to hate, and am working toward despising

corkie · 26-11-2020 11:54am

^^^ https://youtu.be/cof4oP8uoxw?t=31 ^^^

Shows up 'Mikey Spock' lack of Vulcan education that she needs 'Silly' to explain to her.

'Dr. Gabrielle Burnham' making an appearance kind of rules out the theories of her or her suit causing the burn?

PirateShampoo · 26-11-2020 1:05pm

Jesus christ this show.

My new theory is that they didn't actually go to the future.

Burnham is actually a Q who had created a Universe with herself at the center. It's called the Burnham Verse.

This show isn't Star Trek, sure it gives fans a bit of Lip service but it's not Star Trek.

Goodshape · 26-11-2020 2:23pm

Only Michael can save the day! LOL. Well, of course.

Tilly as first officer. Oh for ****s sake. ROFL.

Otherwise really enjoyed the episode

Vulcan/Romulans (or what do we call them now) were great. It really was "Unification III". Very good. Loved that story-line and always wanted more. Top marks on that front.

And I just enjoyed the courtroom-drama Vulcan ceremony schtick.

Good to get the mother-Burnham search out of the way relatively swiftly. Was worried that would drag until some last minute special effect, but it was a relatively subtle reveal and mum's role in the episode was actually worthwhile.

Saru is a decent captain. A bit too soft though. Loses too much credibility when getting pushed around by Burnham. And appointing the ensign as first officer? Christ.

But, I guess things are just a little easier going on a small science vessel, compared to what we're used to in other shows. We're getting more and more time with the crew anyway and that's been great. Whatever about Tilly as No.1, getting Burnham out of that role is a good thing. She can be a little more rogue now without it seeming ridiculous.

Anyway, proper Star Trek

. Very good episode.

corkie · 26-11-2020 2:55pm

Goodshape wrote: »

Vulcan/Romulans (or what do we call them now) were great. It really was "Unification III". Very good. Loved that story-line and always wanted more. Top marks on that front.

Ni'Var

it was "a Vulcan term referring to the duality of things: two who are one, two diversities that are a unity, two halves that come together to make a whole"

Like we don't usually refer to The Vulcans as Vulcanians, I doubt they/we will refer to them as Ni'Varians?

Ni'Var (starship)
^^^ " The Ni'Var was a Vulcan Suurok-class combat cruiser that was in service with the Vulcan High Command in the mid-22nd century. The vessel was commanded by Sopek. "

Edit: - The wiki is going through some changes.

Vulcan (planet) or Ni'Var (planet)

Drip feeding of clues to the burn continue.

^^^ https://youtu.be/1Suy8Ul3JMA?t=96

FutureGuy · 26-11-2020 4:02pm

Tilly as acting FO makes ZERO sense but this was coming since episode two. Make Nilsson FO, promote Tilly to LT. Of course not.

"You are experienced because you jumped through a wormhole" is braindead writing.

Can you imagine some incompetent ****ing upstart getting SVP over people with years of experience. She has ZERO leadership training. If Saru is incapacitated while on a "first response" mission and Tilly is in charge, someone please tell me how that works?

Someone needs firing on the writing team. It pains me because I am really enjoying the reset for the show but it takes a moment of complete idiocy in the writing to undo things - two weeks ago, Georgio blinks at holograms to stop them working. Get out of it.

EDIT: Barkley must be spinning in his grave.

silverharp · 26-11-2020 4:12pm

FutureGuy wrote: »

Tilly as acting FO makes ZERO sense but this was coming since episode two. Make Nilsson FO, promote Tilly to LT. Of course not.

"You are experienced because you jumped through a wormhole" is braindead writing.

Can you imagine some incompetent ****ing upstart getting SVP over people with years of experience. She has ZERO leadership training. If Saru is incapacitated while on a "first response" mission and Tilly is in charge, someone please tell me how that works?

Someone needs firing on the writing team. It pains me because I am really enjoying the reset for the show but it takes a moment of complete idiocy in the writing to undo things - two weeks ago, Georgio blinks at holograms to stop them working. Get out of it.

EDIT: Barkley must be spinning in his grave.

it reeks of fan fiction and a bunch of writers that never made it out of the valley.

Spear · 26-11-2020 4:44pm

That's possibly the least interesting episode of the entire show so far. Little more than 40 minutes of pseudo court room drama.

Tilly as XO is just so stupid a concept it's offensive to the viewer. I know it's a small enough crew, but there's no way there aren't other officers such as Bryce or Rhys or even Nilsson, who are way more experienced. And surely they'd want someone from the 32nd century Starfleet, who'd be familiar with the state of affairs in the galaxy, as well as Admiral Vance who'd want experienced officers in place on his secret weapon. No-one thought this through all.

And what happened to the other long term threads? Where's Detmers PTSD gone? Is she just a nervous unstable wreck roaming the corridors? Where's the rogue AI in the ships computer gone?

And the mother is suddenly Koat Milat? What?

Goodshape · 26-11-2020 5:13pm

Spear wrote: »

And what happened to the other long term threads? Where's Detmers PTSD gone? Is she just a nervous unstable wreck roaming the corridors?

I think that was intended to show that the whole crew are a little shook, rather than Detmer going mad on her own all season. And I don't really want to start defending Tilly as XO, but I'd see that as a continuation of the story thread with Detmer. She's the XO because the crew have been through enough ****, they don't need a hard-nosed 32nd century security officer suddenly in charge and barking orders at them.

And maybe I'm alone on this one but give me court-room Trek all day long

. Last week's shooty-blast-fest was dull as dishwater for me.

PirateShampoo · 26-11-2020 5:36pm

Tilly the Ensign is now No1, even TNG followed rank when Troy ended up Captain. How pissed would you be after years of training and hard work your captain promotes the girl he likes to gossip with ahead of you.

Mummy somehow made it to Vulcan and become a Ninja.

Burnham with one speech somehow managed to nearly start a civil war and then united a planet. Must of been her Q powers, tears and whispering.

The cats not a cat...

Stamits has a really smug face.

So Burnham wants to stay now. Basically she got the feeling we all got on our first day of work when we come back from our holidays.

FutureGuy · 26-11-2020 5:49pm

Burnham's overreaction to any new morsel of information about the future is wearing very thin by the way.

silverharp · 26-11-2020 6:41pm

Spear wrote: »

That's possibly the least interesting episode of the entire show so far. Little more than 40 minutes of pseudo court room drama.

Is that because they blew the budget on planet Iceland? :pac:

Varik · 26-11-2020 9:17pm

It's not like it's Voyager where they're stranded with no link to starfleet and 2 mismatched crews, they've met up with starfleet and Saru got an actual promotion to captain. You'd think Starfleet might have an issue with the probably the most important ship they now got having tilly as fist officer and could have suggested a alternative.

Sesshoumaru · 26-11-2020 9:43pm

I don't agree with Tilly being a good choice for first officer generally. But I did have a good laugh out loud as she listed all the reasons she is not a good choice - matching the discussion here

I don't think it will be permanent though. This is just temporary, Tilly is getting acting first officer because she is compliant - which is what the crew need right now. At least that is how I understood Saru.

I enjoyed that episode. It's a shame it wasn't a bit longer and they stayed in the ship. The TNG episodes where Spock is believed to have gone rogue on Romulus and Picard has to go after him were good episodes. I guess we're supposed to take it that Spock / Burnham have more in common than we thought? I did appreciate that Burnham backed down in the end rather trying to force her way through. I'd like another visit to Vulcan and more of an in-depth view at how they are getting on there.

The whole court room drama part was classic Trek. I mean even the Lower Decks has done a court room episode

I also liked Vance saying "Headline - Michael Burnham is coming". Oh and not to sound like a broken record, but Discovery 1031-A looks great! Solid episode.

GSPfan · 26-11-2020 10:01pm

I swear I’m not even halfway through the episode and the Tilly stuff has me wondering if the writers are trying to annoy us.

Additional Thoughts...

Ok, I finished it. It was painful. That is some of the worst tv I’ve watched. No point making a list of problems as the entire episode speaks for itself. Just absolutely awful writing.

Every part of it seemed so contrived. All done for over-dramatic effect and at the centre of it is the most unstable, unlikeable, unbearable starfleet officer ever.

It’s just bad bad bad. Such a bloody shame.

AMKC · 26-11-2020 11:39pm

I enjoyed that episode. We get to hear about Vulcan and what is called now and Picard is mentioned in it and we get an explanation of wht the Federstion started to break up and crumple.

So I wonder is the transporter room redundant now or do they still been into it like the four Vulcan Romulans seemed to with there own transporter?

Slydice · 26-11-2020 11:45pm

I liked that episode. Really liked seeing Leonard Nimoy again. Good to see more Sonja Sohn too. Wouldn't mind knowing more about the Ni'Var. It great to see the show jump the 1000 years with them. Think the fact files had the split way longer in the past from TOS so it makes sense they'd be at each other. My first thought went to potential civil wars.

That SB19 project looks like some kinda gate technology. I remember comparable technologies like the wormholes, the borg transwarp conduits and the Iconians tech. Pretty sure there were more but second guessing myself with maybe Stargate stuff.

Anyway, right so I didn't watch the preview but caught the first second of it. I'm guessing this season is now all leading up to an episode on What caused the burn and decision that has to be made about it. I'd almost guess another bit of time travel.

AMKC · 27-11-2020 12:40am

Slydice wrote: »

I liked that episode. Really liked seeing Leonard Nimoy again. Good to see more Sonja Sohn too. Wouldn't mind knowing more about the Ni'Var. It great to see the show jump the 1000 years with them. Think the fact files had the split way longer in the past from TOS so it makes sense they'd be at each other. My first thought went to potential civil wars.

That SB19 project looks like some kinda gate technology. I remember comparable technologies like the wormholes, the borg transwarp conduits and the Iconians tech. Pretty sure there were more but second guessing myself with maybe Stargate stuff.

Anyway, right so I didn't watch the preview but caught the first second of it. I'm guessing this season is now all leading up to an episode on What caused the burn and decision that has to be made about it. I'd almost guess another bit of time travel.

Which way? To the future or to be before the Burn sometime?

Baggly · 27-11-2020 12:53am

AMKC wrote: »

Which way? To the future or to be before the Burn sometime?

Going back would be 'against the law' so I'd say Michael has her ticket booked already.

Some silly decisions being made this season.

Enjoyed the court room bits where the Vulcans and Romulans were talking.

Enjoyed Sárú and President talking.

That's about it.

Silliness.

breezy1985 · 27-11-2020 12:55am

Ya know what I liked. The early half of the season where they gave us the faint hope we might learn about this crew. Detmer has been dropped, Culber sidelined again Stamets with him and Adira was just a Mcguffin. Havnt even seen LT. Highfive and his buddy in a while

GSPfan · 27-11-2020 3:00am

It’s more than ever just a Burnham show now.

In season 1 you had captain Lorca, Ash Tyler and Empress Georgiou as strong lead characters with Saru and the crew sprinkled in.

In season 2 you had Pike and Spock with Saru and the crew sprinkled in.

This season we have..... pretty much just Burnham with Saru and the crew sprinkled in. Oh and there’s that guy Book. Yeah he’s totally not going to die at some stage just so we can see Burnham cry again.

duffman13 · 27-11-2020 8:36am

Girl grows up on Vulcan, attends the Vulcan science academy etc. Spends one year, 930 years in the future and doesn't ask Book a single question or look up anything about Vulcan or Spook? First she hears about it is when some admiral tells her. Bizarre

Agree regarding Tilly, most underwhelming first officer ever.

Probably my least favourite episode of the series

27-11-2020 9:33am

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

[*]Tilly as first officer, nope, no nada.

Got as far as that and I don’t think I can even watch the episode now. Ridiculous.

Goodshape · 27-11-2020 10:39am

To be fair, I think they stressed the *acting* first officer. It's a bit of a morale booster while a real XO is sorted out, probably.

ilovesmybrick · 27-11-2020 11:40am

Goodshape wrote: »

To be fair, I think they stressed the *acting* first officer. It's a bit of a morale booster while a real XO is sorted out, probably.

Morale boost or not, it's still ludicrous picking the most junior officer out of 80+ crew members. I wonder if maybe they're using it to set up some conflict with the Admiral? I find it hard to believe that Tilly's promotion to first officer, on a ship they are using as their only rapid response vessel, would go unremarked upon.

lapua20grain · 27-11-2020 11:43am

Breathless whispering, tilted head and a fcukin know it all that saves the universe once again I've had enough now and then they top it off with an ensign being XO, bullshyte.

breezy1985 · 27-11-2020 12:39pm

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

Morale boost or not, it's still ludicrous picking the most junior officer out of 80+ crew members. I wonder if maybe they're using it to set up some conflict with the Admiral? I find it hard to believe that Tilly's promotion to first officer, on a ship they are using as their only rapid response vessel, would go unremarked upon.

What's worse is everyone is so happy about it. None of the Lt. Nostories on the ship went F this being captain was my dream too

a_squirrelman · 27-11-2020 12:52pm

Just watched it *sigh*.

Sooooooo much sighing/crying/whispering, can Burnham just speak like a normal person instead of "breathing" her words.

As someone who usually eyerolls the haters and is happy for ANY new Trek that was utter utter s**te

breezy1985 · 27-11-2020 1:00pm

a_squirrelman wrote: »

Just watched it *sigh*.

Sooooooo much sighing/crying/whispering, can Burnham just speak like a normal person instead of "breathing" her words.

As someone who usually eyerolls the haters and is happy for ANY new Trek that was utter utter s**te

I've tried to just judge on the merits of a Trek show and stay away from the over the top criticism but this is finally the episode that may have tipped me over to the "not real Trek" brigade

liamtech · 27-11-2020 1:13pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

I've tried to just judge on the merits of a Trek show and stay away from the over the top criticism but this is finally the episode that may have tipped me over to the "not real Trek" brigade

Id agree with you completely although i was probably tipped over a few weeks back -

I hated the 'Not Real Trek' brigade as it was incredibly obnoxious and arrogant in its presumption to judge (and i couldnt stand the nit picking either - ok the Klingons look different - wow, how unprecedented, cause of course they have never changed before)- that said we are all entitled to our opinion

For comparison - Compare this season with season two Discovery, and the Mandalorian this year (a three way comparison up to date as of this morning)

Season 2 Disco

Something serious going on with Saru
Ok time travel might be involved#
Section 31 are involved]
Who or what is control
Pike is amazing!
Whats the deal with Tilly and her imaginary friend

Possibly slightly weak at times but still enough to keep us interested - re-watched a few high spots and got knee deep in speculation as to whats going on

Mandalorian
Lots of things in play

-Thrawn is out there

-Gideon is there too, is he in league with Thrawn

-The lab - was that Snoke

-Baby Yoda's back story

-Is the Emperor gonna appear

-Bobba Fett is alive

-Asoka is back!

Lots of plot lines at play!! and i havent even named them all!

Disco season 3

Michaels mam
Michaels Boyfriend
Michaels relationship with Vulans
Michaels relationship with Georgiou
Tilly is first Officer
The Burn

Only one im interested in is the Burn and we are being drip fed on this, and its getting very old now -

Discovery this season has nose dived in my opinion - its bordering on pathetic, i havent felt this bad about trek since enterprise season 2/3 - and that ended badly

Rawr · 27-11-2020 1:17pm

I actually don't mind Tilly as first officer. Past couple of episodes made it look like having Tilly as Saru's First Officer would kind of work, their banter sort of felt like that kind of paring. However, if the role turns out to be permanent she'll need a higher rank or we end up with a situation sillier than when Ensign Kim somehow outranked most of Voyager.

Glad the mother thing is over, and part of me is glad that this is a bottle episode. They phoned in Trill, I shudder to think what they would have done with Vulkan.
It continues to annoy me how blantant the script has become at pointing towards Micheal as the driving force and solution to pretty much everything. Like I've mentioned before I really don't want to watch Star Trek: Michael.

I had somewhat hoped that the Romulan Empire might still be a thing, but I guess that is finished now. I still hold out some hope of Borg or Dominion related shenanigans, but not a lot. If they just hadn't leaned into the Michael stuff so much this might have been an ok standard Star Trek episode, but it came across as a bit tedious.

I think it might be time for me to finally stop watching and maybe revisit when the whole lot is uploaded. Lately I'm mostly watching so that I can visit these Boards without fear of spoiler...but that doesn't feel like enough of an excuse anymore. I'm quite sad that it has come to this. I usually live in some hope that things can get better, and Lower Decks really raised my hopes for modern Star Trek. But weekly doses of Discovery have become weekly disappointments.

I can live in hope that maybe CBS will one day consider giving Trek production to another studio and on that day maybe we'll get some enjoyable Trek.

Sesshoumaru · 27-11-2020 1:47pm

a_squirrelman wrote: »

Just watched it *sigh*.

Sooooooo much sighing/crying/whispering, can Burnham just speak like a normal person instead of "breathing" her words.

As someone who usually eyerolls the haters and is happy for ANY new Trek that was utter utter s**te

As someone who enjoyed the episode, I will give you the "breathing" her words is getting a little annoying. I'm hoping we'll see less of that now that the writers seem to be moving on from her questioning her place and the rest of the crew getting to grips with jumping into the future.

corkie · 27-11-2020 2:53pm

Weekly season recap, but was in two minds if to post it.

7 Episodes gone.
* 2 Season pilot episodes and 4 problems of the week (incl E02)
* 1 filler x06
* 1 Multi Series arc episode (paying homage) x07

Mysteries of the season so far: -

Burn ~~ Slowly collecting info/leads ~~ Black-boxes + Ni'Var (SB-19) Data
Music/Rhyme/Melody ~~ Not mentioned in 2 episodes
Terralysium and Gabrielle Burnham ~~ Well we know about Mum, but not the planet and why not seen?
Georgiou & S31 ~~ What is happening to her at present? And how to get her there <<< Trailer
leads to development next episode.
Adira ~~ What happened with her medical checkup/briefing? ~~ Overlooked for E06 and unseen E07
Detmer ~~ Health/PTSD ~~ Was this to show how the crew in general are coping (as someone suggested)?

Spock never spoke of his sister (classified at end of S02) across trek series, so why did the Ni'Var know about her at all. Years in the future?

of Georgiou talking with Culber.

CramCycle · 27-11-2020 3:21pm

Far better than most this season, still too much of crying Burnham, was she ever really on Vulcan?!? They nodded to the fact that they have alot of mistakes and hastily retconned aload of issues into one show. Its not great but better than trying to fix them over the rest of the season.

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

So I enjoyed the scenes with Saru and the President, could have done with a lot more of that. And the idea of the Federation having over expanded and placed too many demands is a good one. Kind of ties back to the start of Insurrection (or Nemesis, can't remmeber which) when they were inducting new members quite quickly after the Dominion war. Other than that this was one of the most emotional episodes to date, and in my opinion not in a good way.

Definetly, very well done.

[*]Burnhams mother in the Qowat Milat, fine I'll go along with that

Its BS but it gets the crying and thoughts about her mum out of the show really quickly and also made her the type that we could understand Michael not looking her up to often. I see that Michael inherited her overacting from her mum in the last scene.

[*]Tilly as first officer, nope, no nada.

Acting, she was good as acting captain in teh mirror universe, she makes the tough calls for her when needed and as others have said, Saru can trust her. Also alot of people forget that Discovery in season 1 made it very clear they were not like other ships in regards rank, seniority and how things operate thanks to mirror captain guy.

[*]How does a recently minted ensign being the first officer not annoy at least one senior crew member

Acting first officer

[*]No problem with the science institute proceedings stuff, but too long and just not interesting

Basically TNG stuff here

[*]Never bothered me before this episode, but Burnham just whispers way too much in this one, which is irritating in itself, but really, really poor to be doing when making any form of presentation or argument

So apparently in teh year she has forgotten how ot be calm, assertive and confident, I blame the writers here.

[*]Same issues as with the third episode on Earth. Show me more of what's going on with the planet and what they're up to, less Michael saves everyone

Not enough time with the ark but it would have been nice to have a two parter to go into it more.

[*]Is this the most amount of crying in any Trek episode to date?

Does Michael ever stop crying anymore?

liamtech wrote: »

[*]How does Vulcan record Spocks dissapearance? This is obviously Prime timeline so prime spock vanished right after the romulan supernova

If they done that, it would have read to much like lip service.

[*]How/When did reunification actually occur, and what is the status of the Romulan Singularity powered fleet

That would have been interesting

[*]Why did the Vulcans believe their experiment caused the burn, this was never clarified

Yeah, something very sketch going on there.

[*]The vulcans expressed no interest in acquiring Spore Drive technology

Distrust of the federation

[*]If you must include Burnhams mum, ok - i need more information as to why she is now vulcan alligned- slightly touched on but not enough

Nothing more than thy gave her sanctuary and she liked it there., it also happily mutes that strand and we hopefully can ignore it going forward.

[*]Michael is such a legend - even when she is demoted shes still a legend
[*]Michael is the only one who can get things done

To be far, this is the first episode this season where there has been a legitimate reason to use Michael.

[*]The vulcans revere Michael too! She really is all that

to be fair, I didn't get that impression

I find this series in general tedious, and boring. And despite the season high of episode 5, this is the weakest season so far. And i honestly dont believe discovery will last if the writers keep telling us to be interested in one character, who i started off disliking, grew to hate, and am working toward despising

Funnily, despite the amount to dislike, this has been one of the better episodes, very TNG like in many ways

FutureGuy wrote: »

Someone needs firing on the writing team. It pains me because I am really enjoying the reset for the show but it takes a moment of complete idiocy in the writing to undo things - two weeks ago, Georgio blinks at holograms to stop them working. Get out of it.

EDIT: Barkley must be spinning in his grave.

That was really, really stupid, I mean it actually hurt.

This said, jesus, how stupid is Burnham, that Tilly explained what a bunch of us figured out while she said it last episode that 3 points wasn't enough. Michael is really starting to remind me of that manager most of us had once who seemed competent for the most part and then in a split second you realise they were faking it the whole time.

PhiloCypher · 27-11-2020 4:25pm

The writers need to stop aiming for broad emotions in every episode, that's fine, even required in a movie as you have 2 hours to make an impact . In a 15 episode tv shows its absolutely exhausting. By all means put a character through an emotional wringer once or twice a season, but they have the whole cast crying, hugging and cheering in every bloody episode.

flazio · 27-11-2020 6:07pm

At first I was also sceptical about Tilly becoming Number 1, but then I remembered there was a fine enlisted Chief Petty Officer who became Head of Engineering on both a Space Station and its attached Star Ship. He was worried when a Ferengi cadet became an Ensign he'd have to address him as Sir. But plenty of Ensigns, Lieutenants and Lieutenant Commanders took engineering orders from him.

H3llR4iser · 27-11-2020 6:43pm

flazio wrote: »

At first I was also sceptical about Tilly becoming Number 1, but then I remembered there was a fine enlisted Chief Petty Officer who became Head of Engineering on both a Space Station and its attached Star Ship. He was worried when a Ferengi cadet became an Ensign he'd have to address him as Sir. But plenty of Ensigns, Lieutenants and Lieutenant Commanders took engineering orders from him.

But O'Brien was actually overqualified compared to his rank and had experience that would put most Commanders and even some Captains to shame (I don't remember if it was ever explained in detail why he never went for officership). Plus, his role was strictly technical, so his case was one of experience and competence outweighing rank.

Tilly has nothing speaking for herself, except the "Mary Sue" syndrome. A "girl with a dream". Saturday morning cartoon plot level, and not the good ones - I'm talking Paw Patrol crud.

As I said before, it's very clear the writers are trying to make the character a "proxy" for a certain slice of the audience - the same demographic who identified in Lieutenant Broccol...ehrm, Barclay. However where Barclay's portrayal was spot on (an outstanding engineer whose skills were dismissed by others due to his character faults), Tilly ended up being much more similar that one kid in school who always screwed everything up - yet somehow had all teachers saying he/she was "great" and "full of potential" for no reason whatsoever.

And had I been Stamets, Nilsson, "sit next to pilot girl girl" or Detmer, I'd have asked for a transfer instantly - even if the only place available would've been on a human waste transport.

Can't help having the sneaking suspicion this is all a writing setup to have Saru fall from grace by the end of the season.

CramCycle · 27-11-2020 7:24pm

Is she not meant to be one of the smartest people on the ship? Or did I misunderstand her role in the science team, with the ability to stand in when needed. She was chosen for contact scenarios due to her EQ, pretended, quite well to captain a ship in the mirror universe. Was under going the officer training and so on.

I'm not saying she is the right person for the job but there aren't any other candidates from the staff we have seen who would be suitable. The dinner with his supposedly senior crew (which Tilly was at), she was the only one who acted in a way be fitting a first officer, no one else filled that void.

27-11-2020 8:29pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Is she not meant to be one of the smartest people on the ship? Or did I misunderstand her role in the science team, with the ability to stand in when needed. She was chosen for contact scenarios due to her EQ, pretended, quite well to captain a ship in the mirror universe. Was under going the officer training and so on.

I'm not saying she is the right person for the job but there aren't any other candidates from the staff we have seen who would be suitable. The dinner with his supposedly senior crew (which Tilly was at), she was the only one who acted in a way be fitting a first officer, no one else filled that void.

She's one of five or six characters in the crew that the casual viewer can name without going to imdb. That's her main qualification.

In the time it took her to make the decision, Saru could have picked a proper number one. Like the blond lady who used to be a robot. Or grudge.

breezy1985 · 27-11-2020 8:32pm

flazio wrote: »

At first I was also sceptical about Tilly becoming Number 1, but then I remembered there was a fine enlisted Chief Petty Officer who became Head of Engineering on both a Space Station and its attached Star Ship. He was worried when a Ferengi cadet became an Ensign he'd have to address him as Sir. But plenty of Ensigns, Lieutenants and Lieutenant Commanders took engineering orders from him.

Always with the whataboutery. Judge Discovery on the merits of the episode and not what DS9 or TNG or Dr. Whoever did

breezy1985 · 27-11-2020 8:37pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Is she not meant to be one of the smartest people on the ship? Or did I misunderstand her role in the science team, with the ability to stand in when needed. She was chosen for contact scenarios due to her EQ, pretended, quite well to captain a ship in the mirror universe. Was under going the officer training and so on.

I'm not saying she is the right person for the job but there aren't any other candidates from the staff we have seen who would be suitable. The dinner with his supposedly senior crew (which Tilly was at), she was the only one who acted in a way be fitting a first officer, no one else filled that void.

She is the only one because the show has done a terrible job of making real characters of any of the crew. They are just background high fivers, back patters and circle jerkers

alchemist33 · 27-11-2020 8:55pm

Maybe Till got the job because (remember this?) she's the fastest runner on the ship?

But inevitably Saru will get incapacitated and she'll have to take over for an episode so they can show us she's a leader, despite not showing any leadership so far, and needing the Star Trek equivalent of the crew giving her a "Congratulations on your promotion!" card before she said yes. She's the Everygirl who can get to the top despite her anxiety and lack of ambition.

And Saru steals every scene he's in. Give him an episode, dammit!

Rawr · 27-11-2020 9:21pm

alchemist33 wrote: »

. Give him an episode series, dammit!

Fixed your post there

But yea...saving grace of the show I fell is Captain Saru.

PirateShampoo · 27-11-2020 9:27pm

alchemist33 wrote: »

Maybe Till got the job because (remember this?) she's the fastest runner on the ship?

But inevitably Saru will get incapacitated and she'll have to take over for an episode so they can show us she's a leader, despite not showing any leadership so far, and needing the Star Trek equivalent of the crew giving her a "Congratulations on your promotion!" card before she said yes. She's the Everygirl who can get to the top despite her anxiety and lack of ambition.

Or actually being a member of the bridge crew.

Saru will go down and the ship will explode while Tilly asks "What's this button do"

CramCycle · 27-11-2020 9:43pm

Deleted User wrote: »

She's one of five or six characters in the crew that the casual viewer can name without going to imdb. That's her main qualification.

In the time it took her to make the decision, Saru could have picked a proper number one. Like the blond lady who used to be a robot. Or grudge.

Blond lady is about the only one who might be suited as she has been given the conn on a few occasions but let's not forget, she didn't exist 8 episodes or so ago. The rest of his senior crew appear to be a pair of high fiving college friends, a PTSD sufferer, her best mate, and the rest aren't bridge crew. Saru doesn't even call the chief medical officer or other senior staff to his dinner but this crowd. My only excuse is that Discovery was like this from the way Mirror captain designed it in season 1 to be. I'm not convinced they have anyone capable of being first officer and out of the ones we have seen, Tilly is actually the only candidate or a new previously unseen character. That's the world they have given us.

breezy1985 wrote: »

She is the only one because the show has done a terrible job of making real characters of any of the crew. They are just background high fivers, back patters and circle jerkers

Why do they all cry or high five, all the time, how is there no in-between.

breezy1985 · 27-11-2020 9:46pm

CramCycle wrote: »

Blond lady is about the only one who might be suited as she has been given the conn on a few occasions but let's not forget, she didn't exist 8 episodes or so ago. The rest of his senior crew appear to be a pair of high fiving college friends, a PTSD sufferer, her best mate, and the rest aren't bridge crew. Saru doesn't even call the chief medical officer or other senior staff to his dinner but this crowd. My only excuse is that Discovery was like this from the way Mirror captain designed it in season 1 to be. I'm not convinced they have anyone capable of being first officer and out of the ones we have seen, Tilly is actually the only candidate or a new previously unseen character. That's the world they have given us.

Why do they all cry or high five, all the time, how is there no in-between.

Annoying thing is I really like this crew the few good moments we get with them. Maybe Burnham should f off with book and Discovery get a spin off show

IrishZeus · 27-11-2020 10:18pm

Did they actually put in a line saying Spock only became the man he was due to Burnham....? Is it just me or that an insult beyond compare to past Trek

breezy1985 · 27-11-2020 10:36pm

IrishZeus wrote: »

Did they actually put in a line saying Spock only became the man he was due to Burnham....? Is it just me or that an insult beyond compare to past Trek

Was insinuated first by a Burnham quote and later by her mother

Stark · 27-11-2020 10:58pm

In the middle of watching at the moment.

Tilly... WTF?

Discovery 3x07 - 'Unification III' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

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Discovery 3x07 - 'Unification III' ~~ { Spoilers Within }