Need some advice on my son

Noddy Nangle · 28-05-2020 6:43am #1

Hi there

My son turned fourteen as couple of weeks ago. The pandemic has been hard on him as we live in the country and he hasn’t seen many of his friends over the past few months. Instead he stayed connected online or through his phone which to be honest was a god send as it occupied him from boredom. Anyways the other day I managed to get him a job for a couple of days a week with a friend of mine so that he can begin to learn life skills and develop a work ethic. When I told him first he told me that he wasn’t doing it and gradually over the past few days this has become a real issue and yesterday I took his xbox and phone from him, his reaction was to go mental and we haven’t really spoken to him since. I never lost my temper with him and I told him I was doing this because I loved him but he point blank refused to listen. It really hurts me to do this to my son but I think that he need to go to work for social interaction and to learn the lessons of life, the Xbox doesn’t provide these lessons. Any advice ??

UPDATE - Many thanks for all of the advice and it’s much appreciated. Just to clarify a few things that came up in the comments.

1) I had spoken with him throughout this year to coax him to get a little job for himself and be independent but was always met with a “no”. Therefore I pushed on and asked my friend (who is the child’s godfather) to help me out. I told him would he let him do two days a week and I suggested to give €40 per day. Just to compare when I first started working at 14 I was paid £40 per week for five full days. My friend cares for the welfare of my son and would look after him whilst helping to introduce him to doing some light work.
2) The job doesn’t involve meeting the public and would be mainly working outdoors or in a warehouse with no machinery involved. The job is located about 500 metres from our house along a back road so he could walk or cycle to work and even come home for lunch if he wanted.
3) To those that think I am bullying him then I just want to say that you are wrong. I am trying to prepare him for adulthood. This has nothing to do with either the work or the money. He will still have plenty of time to enjoy his friends and his summer.

I am also conscious that we are living in strange times and I don’t want him to be cut off from his friends so at lunchtime I told him that I am proud of him as a son and his has made me proud many times as he grew up. But I told him that myself and his Mam were very disappointed in him for refusing to take the job. I said that he can have either the phone or his Xbox back but only one and he has to tell me which one, but whatever one he doesn’t pick with not be given back to him. If he changes his mind on the job then he can have both. I think it’s the best I can do.

Peregrinus · 28-05-2020 6:45am

What's the job?

And is he being paid for it?

And what is his objection to it?

Flickerfusion · 28-05-2020 6:51am

I’d point out the legal minimum age to work in Ireland is 16 and there’s a massive pandemic on at the moment.

Have you considered the fact that he might be very concerned about being put in that position right now.

It’s also illegal to do non essential work at this stage in the lock down and you’re being asked to work from home it at all possible, even later in the summer.

We are being quite literally paid to stay at home.

These are not normal times.

Not in Kansas · 28-05-2020 6:53am

It is my opinion that someone who has only just turned 14 is very young to be working. 15/16 is quite different. A lot changes in that couple of years.

Did your son know you were trying to secure him paid work, or was it a complete surprise to him? That may explain the reaction also.

Not in Kansas · 28-05-2020 6:56am

Flickerfusion wrote: »

I’d point out the legal minimum age to work in Ireland is 16 and there’s a massive pandemic on at the moment.

Surprisingly, that's not true. During the school holidays, it's 14.

28-05-2020 6:59am

I’d say he’s far more concerned about being separated from his X-Box than catching Covid . There are hundreds of his age group out and about in large groups everywhere this week, they’re not worried about catching any virus.

Hope it works out OP , I’d stick to my guns if I was you , been there !

Flickerfusion · 28-05-2020 7:01am

Not in Kansas wrote: »

Surprisingly, that's not true. During the school holidays, it's 14.

This is term time. He should be working on school remotely.

We are *not* in school holiday season yet. It’s May!

RurtBeynolds · 28-05-2020 7:02am

Did you ask your son if he wanted to work? He's only 14, plenty of time for him to acquire a work ethic. He's going to spend his whole life working, maybe just let him be a kid for a couple more years?

You're not going to do yourself any favours by imposing these kinds of things on him. Maybe had you talked to him about it first, explained the benefits of him having a bit of extra cash in his pocket every week he might have been more open to it.

28-05-2020 7:10am

Flickerfusion wrote: »

This is term time. He should be working on school remotely.

We are *not* in school holiday season yet. It’s May!

At 14 he’d be in secondary school , they’d be on holidays from tomorrow 29 May..........next working day after Bank holiday Monday is Tuesday 2 June, so school’s out !!

Flickerfusion · 28-05-2020 7:11am

I would suggest you go read:

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/ad5dd0-easing-the-covid-19-restrictions-on-may-18-phase-1/#work

This stuff isn’t a fuzzy optional guideline.

Personally, I’m shocked anyone would send a 14 year old into a work place scenario in this environment. It makes absolutely no sense and I am not going to be polite about it.

Is he an essential worker?
Does he need to be there right now?
Could he be doing something else?
***There is a pandemic***

28-05-2020 7:18am

Flickerfusion wrote: »

I would suggest you go read:

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/ad5dd0-easing-the-covid-19-restrictions-on-may-18-phase-1/#work

This stuff isn’t a fuzzy optional guideline.

Personally, I’m shocked anyone would send a 14 year old into a work place scenario in this environment. It makes absolutely no sense and I am not going to be polite about it.

***There is a pandemic***

OP has not said what kind of work it is , it could be fruit picking , farm work ,helping a landscape gardener . They live in the countryside! Things are getting back to normal anyway , pandemic is passing , lots of work has started , everybody is out again and business is screaming for faster restrictions (not dragging this thread off topic).

I picked strawberries locally from the age of 13. My kids both worked at 14 (a few hours every morning) helping at a riding school . OP has not said what kind of work or frequency of work. He’s not sending him into Google HQ every day !

XsApollo · 28-05-2020 7:24am

I wouldn’t send any of my kids out to work at 14, sound a bit extreme to me to be honest.
I’d give them something to do for a bit of money or unless it something very casual for a bit of money and they actually wanted to do it.
But if they didn’t want to go and work I wouldn’t be taking all their stuff and having arguments about it.

Saying that I did work in the morning before school cleaning the windows in a local chipper for one hour twice a week before school when I was 15.
I remember I was asked did I want to do it as it was available and I wanted to.

Flickerfusion · 28-05-2020 7:32am

Businesses reopening is one thing. Kids being (or even adults doing work experience) on site is an entirely different matter.

I would most definitely advise finding some other projects to occupy him.

These have been a rough few months for everyone.

Not in Kansas · 28-05-2020 7:35am

Flickerfusion wrote: »

This is term time. He should be working on school remotely.

We are *not* in school holiday season yet. It’s May!

How can you be so wrong twice? School finishes officially tomorrow.

Flickerfusion · 28-05-2020 7:41am

Not in Kansas wrote: »

How can you be so wrong twice? School finishes officially tomorrow.

Fine!

Send a kid out to work in a pandemic.

I give up!!

If this is how laid back we’re all going to be, we will be back at square one before long and the last 3 months of economic turmoil will be for nothing!

Given the circumstances at present, what’s being proposed on this thread makes absolutely no sense.

It’s nothing to do wrong reopening the economy. It’s to provide a life experience in the middle of what is probably the most bizarre health circumstances we have witnessed in more a century.

Alrigghtythen · 28-05-2020 7:47am

There a lot if drama in this thread. Op there is no reason why your son should not be out working. Good on you for parenting and teaching him some responsibility. It'll do him good and he'll get to meet a few people instead of being stuck in the xbox. He cant stay locked inside forever wrapped in cotton wool.

sydthebeat · 28-05-2020 7:48am

Flickerfusion wrote: »

This is term time. He should be working on school remotely.

We are *not* in school holiday season yet. It’s May!

My secondary kids are already finished their school year

morebabies · 28-05-2020 7:56am

I think it's a really good idea to give him a work ethic at age 14 if his life is currently dependent on social media and gaming. You're not the only parent in this position particularly at the moment when teen lads are expected to stay at home, and well done for withdrawing his access to them and asserting your role as a parent.

But if the job doesn't work out for health / safety reasons, maybe give him something at home to do which fulfils the same requirement, eg. Repainting a room, starting a vegetable patch if that's an option. And have it as a bargaining tool, if you don't spend x amount of time working on it during the day, you won't get your devices back.

Ash.J.Williams · 28-05-2020 7:56am

sydthebeat wrote: »

My secondary kids are already finished their school year

Think that poster has left the building

28-05-2020 7:57am

Flickerfusion wrote: »

Fine!

Send a kid out to work in a pandemic.

I give up!!

If this is how laid back we’re all going to be, we will be back at square one before long and the last 3 months of economic turmoil will be for nothing!

Given the circumstances at present, what’s being proposed on this thread makes absolutely no sense.

It’s nothing to do wrong reopening the economy. It’s to provide a life experience in the middle of what is probably the most bizarre health circumstances we have witnessed in more a century.

Your reaction is slightly over the top although I agree with your previous comment that these few months have been very tough on everyone .......there may be alternatives to work for this 14 year old.

Community spread has been almost eradicated and this poster lives in the country, very likely to be outdoor work. There is a level of extreme fear and hysteria about Covid now which is just as dangerous as the virus.

A huge amount of people have worked throughout this , not in the countryside but in shops, hospitals and offices . Tens of thousands returned to work this week .
A few hours work for a 14 year in someone’s garden or farm is not going make the virus resurface and kill thousands. Life must go on now, hand in hand with Covid. Virus can’t be killed off , it’s here.

But these are 2 different points , maybe at 14 this young teen just needs a bit of company and stimulation away from the XBox

chooseusername · 28-05-2020 7:58am

Not in Kansas wrote: »

How can you be so wrong twice? School finishes officially tomorrow.

It's mid-term break, not school holidays.
Quote;
During the school term, a 14 year old can’t be employed while a 15 year old can be employed for 08 hours a week. During holidays/summer term, the weekly working hours are 35 hours for both 14 and 15 year olds. Under the work experience program, the weekly working hours are 40 hours a week.

Noddy Nangle · 28-05-2020 8:34am

Peregrinus wrote: »

What's the job?

And is he being paid for it?

And what is his objection to it?

Yes he will get paid €40 for 9-5 and he can keep it as his own to save and spend. When I asked why he wouldn’t go he said he was too young (I was working at 14)

Noddy Nangle · 28-05-2020 8:39am

Flickerfusion wrote: »

This is term time. He should be working on school remotely.

We are *not* in school holiday season yet. It’s May!

School finished last week for him

28-05-2020 8:41am

Noddy Nangle wrote: »

Yes he will get paid €40 for 9-5 and he can keep it as his own to save and spend. When I asked why he wouldn’t go he said he was too young (I was working at 14)

That’s €5 an hour , for an 8 hour day.
I think that’s too much work every day for a 14 year old.

I think he could get away from the XBox and restriction of that is good , but this seems to be one extreme to the other. 3 days a week would be good though.

Phoebas · 28-05-2020 8:45am

OP, maybe he's pissed off that you went and arranged a job for him without discussing and agreeing it with him first.

I understand that you might like him to have the responsibility of having a job, but if he's old enough to take on that responsibility then he should be old enough to have a choice in the matter too.

wirelessdude01 · 28-05-2020 8:47am

Noddy Nangle wrote: »

Yes he will get paid €40 for 9-5 and he can keep it as his own to save and spend. When I asked why he wouldn’t go he said he was too young (I was working at 14)

What is the job?

Noddy Nangle · 28-05-2020 8:47am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That’s €5 an hour , for an 8 hour day.
I think that’s too much work every day for a 14 year old.

I think he could get away from the XBox and restriction of that is good , but this seems to be one extreme to the other. 3 days a week would be good though.

It’s only two days a week

Not in Kansas · 28-05-2020 8:48am

chooseusername wrote: »

It's mid-term break, not school holidays.
Quote;
During the school term, a 14 year old can’t be employed while a 15 year old can be employed for 08 hours a week. During holidays/summer term, the weekly working hours are 35 hours for both 14 and 15 year olds. Under the work experience program, the weekly working hours are 40 hours a week.

What country do you live in? It's not mid-term break. Irish secondary schools officially finish for the summer holidays tomorrow.

wirelessdude01 · 28-05-2020 8:49am

chooseusername wrote: »

It's mid-term break, not school holidays.
Quote;
During the school term, a 14 year old can’t be employed while a 15 year old can be employed for 08 hours a week. During holidays/summer term, the weekly working hours are 35 hours for both 14 and 15 year olds. Under the work experience program, the weekly working hours are 40 hours a week.

Irish secondary schools are either finished or are finishing up this week. Are you based in the UK?

Nozebleed · 28-05-2020 8:51am

Noddy Nangle wrote: »

Yes he will get paid €40 for 9-5 and he can keep it as his own to save and spend. When I asked why he wouldn’t go he said he was too young (I was working at 14)

i agree with OP. no harm in getting the young lad summer work at 14.

there's far too much drama in the media and general society regarding the pandemic.

im sure if you were to show him a price list of xbox games or general gaming equiptment his mind set will be different after a few days. understanding the value of money at 14 will be great for him.

Peregrinus · 28-05-2020 8:52am

Noddy Nangle wrote: »

Yes he will get paid €40 for 9-5 and he can keep it as his own to save and spend. When I asked why he wouldn’t go he said he was too young (I was working at 14)

€5 an hour is, frankly, not a lot - less than half the national minimum wage for an adult. Hell, it's well below the minimum wage for someone under 18 (which is currently €7.07.) Which kind of reinforces his point - you can hardly argue that he's old enough to go out and work, but not old enough to be paid the going rate for the work. Your typical 14-year old has a well-developed sense of justice when it comes to how they are treated themselves, and he will certainly feel it as unjust that he is compelled to do work that he doesn't want to do for what would be regarded as an exploitation wage.

I get why you think it would be beneficial for him to get a job, and if he saw the benefits and wanted the job I wouldn't be too fussed about the low wage rate. But he doesn't want the job, and the wage he's being offered underlines the point that he's not really up to doing a proper job yet.

And he's already quite stressed because of the effects of the pandemic on school, sports and socialising; I wouldn't pick a row with him over this, and I certainly wouldn't punish him by withdrawal of privileges. Negotiate with him over this about how much work he thinks it reasonable to do - perhaps 8 hours a week instead of 16? Perhaps during holidays only? - and also see if you can get a more respectable hourly rate of pay. Or agree with him that you'll revisit the question in a year's time, when he's 15.

Not in Kansas · 28-05-2020 8:58am

Noddy Nangle wrote: »

Yes he will get paid €40 for 9-5 and he can keep it as his own to save and spend. When I asked why he wouldn’t go he said he was too young (I was working at 14)

It depends what way you look at things. Because my mother was working at age 14 (13 actually) she didn't want us to have to do the same. I see you feel differently, and look to the fact that you were working at that age as justification for your son doing the same. It's a judgement call only a parent can make.

My son did actually start a little part-time job at 14 and a half, but it only took up 4 hours a week and we were able to supervise. I think to go from nothing to full working days at that age is too much.

y0ssar1an22 · 28-05-2020 9:00am

could you supplement the wage? not directly to him, but give to your friend so they can pay your son more?

I'd say once he gets into it, he will enjoy it. its just that 1st step!

maybe give him the xbox back as part of the deal

JustAThought · 28-05-2020 9:02am

He might be just turned age 14 byt he’s acting like a twelve year old. No doubt he sees
the ‘work ‘ as work’ and would rather be at hime playing with his toys. What kind of work is it and will he be with other young people or by himself or with adults?

I’d be flagging a few things
- where is your wife in this - is she on your side or letting you take the heat?
- if he behaves badly in this job or is reluctant or sulky or rude you will ruin your friendship and burn bridges
- e40 or e80 a week is a LOT of money for an immature teenager to have access to, to do whatever he wants with
-maybe there is an incentive you could build in with the cash he saves - a weekend to an xbox gaming convention, a season football ticket He could save up and buy etc

Regardless I would say its definately head in the sand time for him - problem is if you limit his time kn the xbox he will be bored and also resent you, if you give it back to him he will have won. and think he can have his way. Maybe the compromise is that he does boring chores in the house - unpaid - and can have limited access to the xbox. That way he gets the message you are in charge, understands the benefits of working and that he can’t lie about all day playing games and contribute nothing nor be productive in society.

You need to be form in the xbox. Giving in when he goes mental is hard but you can’t let him win.

You may have to thank your friend and apologise and say your son reacted very badly to being told he had to work and you think he hasn’t the maturity yet for it as you hadn’t expected his reaction and maybe you could come back next year to him?

Then mke your son get involved in joint tasks where you mow grass/ sweep driveways/ rake lawns/ weed shrubbery/ wash cars/ rearrange attics contents etc

chooseusername · 28-05-2020 9:04am

Not in Kansas wrote: »

What country do you live in? It's not mid-term break. Irish secondary schools officially finish for the summer holidays tomorrow.

Oops, in UK , half term here
sorry , should've remembered those long school hols.

wirelessdude01 · 28-05-2020 9:05am

I'll ask again what is the job?

Personally I think maybe going from zero to a full 8 hour day might be too much. A lot of younger people are lazy and have a lack of work ethic so he probably just needs to be eased in. Maybe a half day so that he gets used to it and then gradually increase up to a full day. Either way it is going to be a shock to his system but one that you need to hold firm on.

Is he regularly asked to do decent chores and jobs around the house to 'earn' things? I know when I was his age we pretty much worked full time at home and for the neighbours doing painting, lawn cutting, gardening, farm work. Whatever needed to be done were given it. It was what was expected. No way were you allowed just sit inside and do nothing.

Treppen · 28-05-2020 9:05am

9-5 is pretty full on for a 14 year old, but I suppose where he's working they ain't gonna be picking him up or dropping him back outside these times.
Maybe suggest a break in period , half day to start?

I think you landed this on him all too quick without any notice.
Right son exams finished, schools over, go to work with some strangers, no Xbox till you do.

I think you need to sweeten the deal and subsidise those wages...
New headset
New controller
Xbox ultimate
Sign him up to online game building course for one hour a week.
Build his own game PC in stages.

Did he have any other hobbies?

chooseusername · 28-05-2020 9:06am

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Irish secondary schools are either finished or are finishing up this week. Are you based in the UK?

Yes, sorry,
mid-term break here this week.

Wesser · 28-05-2020 9:06am

I think you have been way too harsh on him. What particularly i notice is that you guys are no longer speaking to eachother so he is now in a way worse off position as no x box and no phone and no one to speak to him, even thoigh he hasnt done any thing wrong.

JustAThought · 28-05-2020 9:09am

Treppen wrote: »

9-5 is pretty full on for a 14 year old, but I suppose where he's working they ain't gonna be picking him up or dropping him back outside these times.
Maybe suggest a break in period , half day to start?

I think you landed this on him all too quick without any notice.
Right son exams finished, schools over, go to work with some strangers, no Xbox till you do.

I think you need to sweeten the deal and subsidise those wages...
New headset
New controller
Xbox ultimate
Sign him up to online game building course for one hour a week.
Build his own game PC in stages.

Did he have any other hobbies?

I absolutely think this is an insane suggestion.
Maybe its his son or other teenager posting.

PyreOfHellfire · 28-05-2020 9:11am

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

There a lot if drama in this thread. Op there is no reason why your son should not be out working. Good on you for parenting and teaching him some responsibility. It'll do him good and he'll get to meet a few people instead of being stuck in the xbox. He cant stay locked inside forever wrapped in cotton wool.

The lack of self awareness is....UNBELIEVABLE. If he wants to teach his son responsibility then I can't think of something more irresponsible than sending him out to work in a pandemic lockdown. If there was ever a time when a teenager stuck inside all day playing video games could be the best thing to do, I can't think of a better time than right now. Also, a 9-5 job earning €5 an hour? Hate to be the one to break this to you but that's illegal on multiple levels.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1996/act/16/enacted/en/html
- Children aged 14 or over may do light work during the school holidays where the hours do not exceed 7 in any day or 35 in any week.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2000/act/5/enacted/en/html
- An employee under age 18 is entitled €7.07 per hour or 70% of the minimum wage.

Muppet Man · 28-05-2020 9:19am

I was picking spuds when was 11 for 5 quid a day. Never knew tiredness like it. It was great. Good on you OP.

freshpopcorn · 28-05-2020 9:24am

I don't see the OP me mentioning what the job is. I'm not sure for what reason.
He may not want to running into friends doing a particular job.
Now I don't know what type of friendship you've with your friend but you may have issues with them in the future.
I know a few people and there parents got them jobs. However the kid wanted the job. The employer didn't have a moody teenager landed on them from mammy and daddy tough.
Also I'd keep an eye on him that he doesn't do anything drastic to get out of it.

KiKi III · 28-05-2020 9:25am

Your son is upset that you’re sending him out to work a full day for crap money in the middle of a pandemic where we’re all constantly being told to stay at home?

That’s mad.

poolboy · 28-05-2020 9:30am

Working at 14 in the countryside is normal. I was doing 12-14 hour days at that age when the local farmer needed me for silage etc. I remember my cousin's from Dublin being absolutely horrified at the thought of not being able to spend all day everyday hanging around with friends. €80 a week for 2 days work, I'd have taken your hand off for it.

freshpopcorn · 28-05-2020 9:31am

Just another point.
Does your son know this friend if yours?
Could there be a reason why he doesn't want to be around them.

Treppen · 28-05-2020 9:36am

JustAThought wrote: »

I absolutely think this is an insane suggestion.
Maybe its his son or other teenager posting.

Well at the moment it's an impasse, what do you suggest?
Punishment level for son is 100% , so how can she punish him more to get what she thinks is best for the kid.

Turbohymac · 28-05-2020 9:36am

Stick with it op..if he doesn't start learning life skills by 14 well at 16/18 he will be well past it and could easily turn out to be a total layabout with absolutely no interest in furthering his education or getting proper employment
And like many others become one of those unemployable people who never ever work and get everything handed to them..I've an 8 year old now and I'm hopefully past that phase as theres no phone and the Nintendo has been confiscated many times.. no messing they honestly need to wake up to the real world..theres time for work and play but nowadays it's all electronic gadgets and being driven everywhere..its unfortunately quite clear to me it us parents are to blame
Good luck

Neyite · 28-05-2020 9:38am

I worked from an early age doing whatever little jobs I could, and when I was 14 had two summer jobs, 6 or 7 days a week. But I did it because I chose to. I was a teen and wanted things like a bike, nice jeans, Docs and my parents didn't have the money to buy them for me.

Your problem is communication. You went off and sorted out a job for him with your friend without ANY consultation or input from your son. And now aren't speaking to him when he's refused to tow the line for you. I imagine you feel embarrassed that your friend agreed to employ him and you feel like he's showing you up.

Do you want him to grow up to be his own man? Then start treating him like one. You could have discussed him getting a job. Found out from him what kind of jobs are out there for him and helped him to choose one.

Or maybe he has genuine fears of leaving the house to go out and work /mix with people right now -given that he was content to interact with his friends online rather than in person it could well be possible.

Lots of us have reservations going outside our home right now and it doesn't make us lazy bastards with no work ethic.

Swallow your pride, and talk to him. Listen to him. Let him know that he can't laze about all summer but that he has to come up with ways to keep busy that don't involve gaming. It could be local volunteer work - there's GAA groups doing errands for people who are cocooning and he might be interested in helping that way.

But start by resolving the impasse between you and finding out why.

JustAThought · 28-05-2020 9:40am

Treppen wrote: »

Well at the moment it's an impasse, what do you suggest?
Punishment level for son is 100% , so how can she punish him more to get what she thinks is best for the kid.

punishment is 100% ???? How can you say this? Having a toy removed is hardly 100% punishment. There is also his phone. Daily routine.TV restrictions, Change the password on the wifi. lots of ways. And that’s before I am even motivated.

And I am considering unpaid house & ‘yard’ chores a character building obligation not a punishment.

you must have had pushover parents -or be one! Or be a child posting !!!

KiKi III · 28-05-2020 9:45am

poolboy wrote: »

Working at 14 in the countryside is normal. I was doing 12-14 hour days at that age when the local farmer needed me for silage etc. I remember my cousin's from Dublin being absolutely horrified at the thought of not being able to spend all day everyday hanging around with friends. €80 a week for 2 days work, I'd have taken your hand off for it.

And what pandemic were you in the middle of?

Need some advice on my son

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