Need some advice on my son

freshpopcorn

antimatterx wrote: »

I got my first "job" at 13. I'm 24 now.

I was working in my uncles shop a few hours a week for €5 p/h. I loved having some money. The same uncle also gave me more work by dropping Leaflets to doors.

When I was 14/15/16 I worked on sites with my dad. It was never full time. 4/5 hours a day, a few days week. Some weeks there was no works, but it was nice making some money over the summer as a teenZ

I think a long issue here is how he approached the son about it.
It could have been sold to him a lot better.

Lefty Bicek

Leave the pandemic element aside for a moment...

Yes, of course communication is important and if the OP didn't tell the boy in advance that there is a job coming his way, that's careless.

But what amazes me is the mollycoddling of kids by so many of you.

From fourteen on I spent my summer holidays working. I mean a 40hr week. For peanuts. And gave up half of it because Dad was out of work.

There's nothing wrong with it. I'm not traumatised by it. It has stood me in good stead.

For a lot of people, an early experience of hard work and low money might be a valuable motivator.

Anyway, OP, you've backed yourself into a corner now by removing devices. So,he takes the job, or the Xbox goes in the bin.

You're not his friend and you don't need to be in his good books.

boardlady

I'm chiming back in again! I agree with last few posters. You have told your son he is going out to work - like an adult. However, that is not how an adult goes out to work. The process of wanting/needing a job, finding a job and negotiating the terms, are all part of the process and part of what we all get out of our jobs. Maybe your approach was a little off. I say this as a parent who is learning all the time so don't want you to feel I am criticising. I hope as you posted here, you were hoping for advice of all kinds! Maybe start again, and tell your son all of this. Even tell him that you posted on here as you were so unhappy about his response and tell him the valuable suggestions you have been given as to how you could have approached it better. Fundamentally, the job is a great idea, maybe just the approach! I find it very hard to know how to speak to a boy who was a baby only a few years ago and is now beginning to think, and speak, like a man ...

Lefty Bicek

JustAThought wrote: »

punishment is 100% ???? How can you say this? Having a toy removed is hardly 100% punishment. There is also his phone. Daily routine.TV restrictions, Change the password on the wifi. lots of ways. And that’s before I am even motivated.

And I am considering unpaid house & ‘yard’ chores a character building obligation not a punishment.

you must have had pushover parents -or be one! Or be a child posting !!!

So true.

Zeek12

There are better ways to get your son away from the XBOX than this.
You say he's 14 and you don't like that he spends a lot of time on XBOX?
Come on.
There are 34 and 44 yr olds spending far too much time on that thing.....

Punishing him just for being a kid and acting like one, sounds weird.
Guessing there's more to this than you've told us OP.

He'll be working long enough. Let him enjoy his young and carefree days I say.

Just because you yourself were working at 14 doesn't automatically make it the right thing to do now either.
Sounds like you and your son have some other issues to work through here and using the "stick" of work to push him is unlikely to solve those.

Best of luck with it anyway.

weemcd

If you're sure that the job is safe OP with regards to the virus etc then keep at it. Your son will learn valuable life experience which should hold him in good stead. I know people twice his age lying about playing xbox with no hobbies or interests who wonder why the world hasn't handed them everything they want yet.

2 days is the right amount for now. He has enough to keep him busy, fit and active, with loads of free time in the summer. Absolutely no problem here, you'll probably need a couple of chats to coax him around.

Noddy Nangle

He excels army GAA and soccer and he gets good grades without us pushing him

Treppen wrote: »

9-5 is pretty full on for a 14 year old, but I suppose where he's working they ain't gonna be picking him up or dropping him back outside these times.
Maybe suggest a break in period , half day to start?

I think you landed this on him all too quick without any notice.
Right son exams finished, schools over, go to work with some strangers, no Xbox till you do.

I think you need to sweeten the deal and subsidise those wages...
New headset
New controller
Xbox ultimate
Sign him up to online game building course for one hour a week.
Build his own game PC in stages.

Did he have any other hobbies?

Noddy Nangle

Like you I too grew up on a farm and did lots of farm work too. We weren’t left idle and it did us no harm. But I’m not on a farm anymore and there is only so much you can do around the house. And being honest he doesn’t do much around the house either. I understand he is 14 but maybe it’s the farmer in me but I can’t stand to see kids in their room on Xbox’s all day.

Noddy Nangle wrote: »

Sorry without getting into specifics it’s an outdoorsy job and my friend is only helping me out as he understands what I want to do. He asked me how much He should o ok at him and I said forty was fine and maybe if he does a good job give him a little rise after a few weeks

iHungry

Hi op, I think it'll be good for him. It's only 2 days a week. He is probably dredding it but that's life. Once he starts it won't seem so bad. Get him up and out at it.

Agent Smith

The11Duff wrote: »

I went to work at 14 with my father on building sites for £50 a week in 2000.

With some of the comments on here, no wonder young people are turning into snowflakes.

I did the same, £50 ( or €65) was a lot when i was 14. And it wasnt just making the tea! used to be knackered every friday! but by god I loved that envalope on a friday evening!


OP, unless the work is wildly dangerous, tell him to suck it up and do it. maybe it will give him a work ethic. it did with me, he'll hated it at the start, but once he gets the money, he'll want more.

TCPIP

You're asking a young 14 year old to perform physical outdoor work for a pittance. He is right to be annoyed at you and while you might have been working at 14 there's a difference between working on a family farm which is a codified exception to working age laws and being hired out by your parent.

If you're so hell bent on him doing something productive why not try and get him to perform something for self improvement and motivate him that way such as learning to code or get a head start on languages for school instead of being cheap labour for your friend.

Mitch Connor

Or tell him he needs to get a job, and make him go look for one - one that he will have some agency in.

'I told my son he had a job, without discussing it, and he's become really unreasonable, so I took away his only connections to his friends - which have previously been a godsend because being rural and isolated this lockdown has been tough on him.'

beauf

With a teenager is like reeling in a fish you have to give a little, get a little back. Takes forever with a difficult child. Going nuclear never works. It's not 1950 and it just doesn't work. They just dig their heels in deeper. Been there got the T-shirt. They are still children. By 16 they will have matured hopefully....

I don't get the resistance from people here to working. I worked as a kid from a very young age. It's a life skill. But I wouldn't blindside someone with it.

GarIT

I'm reading this thinking it is insanity. The wold has moved on from all of the "I did it when I was 14 examples". And giving work ethic is nonsense too. Finished school around 10 years ago and all the lads who had no work ethic all buckled down and matured when 6th year came around. OP is saying he is doing well in sports and school so he has work ethic, probably more than his peers. The GAA lads all row in together in 6th year and do grand, I wouldn't be worrying about it.

Until he is 18 and/or leaves full time education you are legally required to provide for him, you can't force him to work if he doesn't want to. Taking away his entertainment while he is trapped at home in the worse crisis for three generations is madness. Let him enjoy his childhood, he will mature when he needs to.

And your asking him to work for a joke of a wage well below the minimum legally allowed. You're setting a bad example by encouraging him to break a fair few laws as is your friend. He needs to be paid the minimum wage, and accruing paid holidays, don't be teaching him to work for less than he is worth.

I'll be doing everything I can to ensure my children have to work until they finish college. None of this I had a tough childhood so my children should too. If they want extras sure they can work for it but if they want to life frugally and focus on their studies that's fine with me too. Many studies have proven that working at a young age lowers performance in school and college.

GarIT

Just to point out to all the people saying "back in the day I worked for £5 an hour"


£5 20 years ago is €10 now.

morebabies

I know a few families locally with teen lads whose sons are gaming / snapchatting all day and also in bed until mid afternoon.
The parents are worryingly blasé about it, "I don't know what he does be at texting all day long, we only see him at mealtimes".
Another family I know reached crisis point when they turned off the wi fi on their son, long before this lockdown, and it ended up with violence and some kind of family intervention.
Extreme examples yes, but this amount of time online for children is like a massive social experiment that we don't know the outcome to yet.

Lefty Bicek

TCPIP wrote: »

You're asking a young 14 year old to perform physical outdoor work for a pittance.

There was nothing wrong with it twenty and thirty years ago, and there is nothing wrong with it now.

He is right to be annoyed at you and while you might have been working at 14 there's a difference between working on a family farm which is a codified exception to working age laws and being hired out by your parent.

That is a really stupid use of language.

If you're so hell bent on him doing something productive why not try and get him to perform something for self improvement

Cultivating self-discipline, reliability, stick-at-edness are all valid forms of 'self improvement'. Sometimes they actually pay, however badly.

Not seeing the possibilities of that could be construed as excuse-making for an aversion to the discipline of employment (as opposed to work).

and motivate him that way such as learning to code or get a head start on languages for school instead of being cheap labour for your friend.

:rolleyes:

An aversion to the discipline of employment, then.

GarIT

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

There was nothing wrong with it twenty and thirty years ago, and there is nothing wrong with it now.



That is a really stupid use of language.



Cultivating self-discipline, reliability, stick-at-edness are all valid forms of 'self improvement'. Sometimes they actually pay, however badly.

Not seeing the possibilities of that could be construed as excuse-making for an aversion to the discipline of employment (as opposed to work).



:rolleyes:

An aversion to the discipline of employment, then.

Times change, there is something wrong with it. If he wanted to fine, but bullying a 14 year old into going out and working during a pandemic isn't fine.


Ah yes, if it's not hard labour it's not a proper job, my da tried that one on me. Now I earn a decent chunk more than him, will be earning twice or tripple what he is by his age and my back doesn't hurt but sure I should give it all up because it's not a proper job with discipline. If he's a smart kid let him do smart things. We're not in a country where most jobs are manual labour anymore.

KiKi III

Nobody needs to “learn the discipline of employment” at 14. You’d think he’ll become a slack jawed yokel if he’s not.

He can’t see his friends for the most part at the moment. He hasn’t been to school in months.

His whole life has been turned upside down.

And even though he is a good kid who gets good grades without being pushed you’re giving him a hard time.

Is this job within your 5km radius and essential? Of course it’s not.

Lefty Bicek

GarIT wrote: »

Just to point out to all the people saying "back in the day I worked for £5 an hour"


£5 20 years ago is €10 now.

You could be right about that. How did you calculate it ?

The CSO CPI calculator suggests it's something less than your figure. (I am assuming that the calculator has adjusted for the currency change in 2002.)

The % change in the CPI from May 2000 to Apr 2020 is 37.0%.

GarIT

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

You could be right about that. How did you calculate it ?

The CSO CPI calculator suggests it's something less than your figure. (I am assuming that the calculator has adjusted for the currency change in 2002.)

I went off minimum wage, was €5.58 20 years ago so under £5 then, €10.10 now. https://tradingeconomics.com/ireland/minimum-wages

There are a few saying they worked for £5 years ago which is roughly what an adult would have epected to earn then and this child is being told they have to work for half what an adult would expect to earn now.

Eric Cartman

KiKi III wrote: »

Nobody needs to “learn the discipline of employment” at 14. You’d think he’ll become a slack jawed yokel if he’s not.

He can’t see his friends for the most part at the moment. He hasn’t been to school in months.

His whole life has been turned upside down.

And even though he is a good kid who gets good grades without being pushed you’re giving him a hard time.

Is this job within your 5km radius and essential? Of course it’s not.

it could very well be on a farm 1km down the road , its the countryside, doubt they're sending him off to Dublin to bag coal or anything...

when I was 14 I worked in a factory bagging golf tee's, I definitely think the work ethic instilled at that age helped a lot. Ive been running a business since I was 14 , the tools and confidence that work experience gave me absolutely spurred that on and has helped me to stick through a lot of things. Haven't been out of work a day in my life since.

OP, sadly this is the nature of withdrawal symptoms taking a teenager away from the xbox , but he'll be better for it in the long run.

spurious

Perhaps it has been mentioned and I missed it, was the young lad consulted at all about this, or just ordered out to work?

For those who say young people can't get the virus, they are well able to carry it, otherwise we would be packing them back into the schools.

If he was mine, I'd be offering him jobs around the house.

Lefty Bicek

GarIT wrote: »

Times change, there is something wrong with it. If he wanted to fine, but bullying a 14 year old into going out and working during a pandemic isn't fine.

No, you are wrong. There is nothing whatsoever wrong in it, despite how times change.

The kid isn't being bullied either. That's your emotive way of putting your point across, but it's totally at odds with the OP's own words...

I never lost my temper with him and I told him I was doing this because I loved him but he point blank refused to listen.

How about listening to what people say, rather than imposing your irrationality ?

Ah yes, if it's not hard labour it's not a proper job,

Who said that ? Who said that the benefits of this are only in the hard labour aspect of it ? I didn't anyway.

my da tried that one on me. Now I earn a decent chunk more than him, will be earning twice or tripple what he is by his age

Most of us move on.

[/quote]and my back doesn't hurt but sure I should give it all up because it's not a proper job with discipline.[/quote]

Your aversion to physical work is clouding your perception. It isn't centrally about manual work, and no-one here is asking you to do anything. Are they ?

If he's a smart kid let him do smart things. We're not in a country where most jobs are manual labour anymore.

Your aversion, again.

GarIT

spurious wrote: »

Perhaps it has been mentioned and I missed it, was the young lad consulted at all about this, or just ordered out to work?

For those who say young people can't get the virus, they are well able to carry it, otherwise we would be packing them back into the schools.

If he was mine, I'd be offering him jobs around the house.

It was mentioned. OP told the lad he had a job and was going out to work withouth consultation and then took away his social interaction in response to the refusal.

Lefty Bicek

GarIT wrote: »

I went off minimum wage, was €5.58 20 years ago so under £5 then, €10.10 now. https://tradingeconomics.com/ireland/minimum-wages

There are a few saying they worked for £5 years ago which is roughly what an adult would have epected to earn then and this child is being told they have to work for half what an adult would expect to earn now.

Ah, you're using wage rates. I was using the Consumer Price Index.

I do not agree with pittance rates of pay. You should get paid for the work you do.

I got £1 per hour in the mid-80's. 40 hour week. 11 miles away, on a bicycle.

I wanted the money, not the exploitation. But to get one I had to accept the other.

I've never forgotten it. In retrospect, it has stood to me. I would now be more annoyed with my parents if they had said no to it.

NSAman

We had a family business. it was expected that during your time away from School you worked. I started working at 8. I started a small business at 10. I see no harm in it personally. It wasn’t that we were down a coal mine at the hard face, you worked to support yourself, learn that money does not come free and it also instilled a great work ethic in me, that continues today.

I know not all parents think that kids working is fine. That is their choice.

As long as the kid is safe, under supervision properly and not placed in any dangerous situations, I see no harm.

Many kids (even older than 14) do not want to work and expect to have their free time to themselves while mum and dad pay for it... that is for the parents to sort out with the kids.

For me personally, my lads started working with me young. It does give people an advantage later in life (IMHO) as they are able to deal with people, socialise and also know what money is and how to acquire it through work. They also learn that nothing in this life is free.

Yes there were times that “but...but.... dad.... my friends are going and I want to go!”... I am not a hard ass.. and negotiation skills are learned early.

colm_mcm

I would imagine a huge factor is how much disposable cash he has without having a job. If he has everything he needs and easily gets money for cinema etc then he has no motivation to earn money.

I don't think telling him he has a job, then punishing him for not wanting that job is reasonable.

GarIT

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

No, you are wrong. There is nothing whatsoever wrong in it, despite how times change.

The kid isn't being bullied either. That's your emotive way of putting your point across, but it's totally at odds with the OP's own words...



How about listening to what people say, rather than imposing your irrationality ?



Who said that ? Who said that the benefits of this are only in the hard labour aspect of it ? I didn't anyway.



Most of us move on.

Your aversion to physical work is clouding your perception. It isn't centrally about manual work, and no-one here is asking you to do anything. Are they ?



Your aversion, again.

We're not going to agree on the first part. I think advances in our society over the last 30 years should allow for children to have easier childhoods.

I'd say taking away someone entertainment and social interaction when they are stuck at home to get them to do something illegal is closer to bullying than parenting.

I assume you have heard actions speak louder than words, OP can say they are doing it because of love if they want to but it doesn't mean they are doing the right thing just because they said they are.

You said learning to program or learning a language wouldn't have the same discipline benefits of working, so that was my take on it that you don't see them as real jobs.

I do have an aversion to physical work, and I don't think that's necessarily harmful. In modern times it's not really harmful for the child either he is doing well in sports, so likely fit, and doing well in school so won't have to do manual labour if they don't want to.

c.p.w.g.w

I mother fcuked me off to England at 16 during summer holidays to work for her brother I didn't want to do it as playing playstation/pc was of more interest ..10 hours days in construction with 4 hours commute...worked 4 weeks until I just couldn't take it anymore and returned home...best thing that ever happened to me...was back 4 weeks and started a part time job I continued in for 18 months until I was let go(business slowed down)