Armstrong Cup 2018-19

EnPassant · 11-10-2018 12:27am

Dun Laoghaire 2.5 Elm Mount 5.5

sodacat11 · 11-10-2018 10:03am

Past_Pawn_99 wrote: »

Gonzaga A 2 - 4 Dublin University

2 to play at later dates.

Is Gonzaga's domination about to end?
This prompted me to wonder just how many teams have won the Armstrong and how often and this led to an interesting find
https://irishchesshistory.wordpress.com/provinces/armstrong-cup/

I'm surprised that Bray has never won it, I would have thought that they had.

sodacat11 · 11-10-2018 10:15am

EnPassant wrote: »

Dun Laoghaire 2.5 Elm Mount 5.5

Not looking good for Dun Laoghaire, they had 7.5 points from their opening two fixtures last year and only 3.5 this year. Also, Gonzaga "B" and Blanchardstown look a lot stronger than the two teams who were relegated last year.
The Rathmines v Gonzaga "B" match should be a nail biter tonight. I forecast 4-4

Tim Harding · 11-10-2018 10:44am

sodacat11 wrote: »

Not looking good for Dun Laoghaire, they had 7.5 points from their opening two fixtures last year and only 3.5 this year. Also, Gonzaga "B" and Blanchardstown look a lot stronger than the two teams who were relegated last year.
The Rathmines v Gonzaga "B" match should be a nail biter tonight. I forecast 4-4

Yes, DL need to target at least three matches they can win and bring Tom O'G over for them, or find a new high board player.

Looking forward to seeing the result of Rathmines tonight. It looks like a clash of the bright juniors but with a couple of doughty old-timers in the mix.

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 11-10-2018 10:58am

Should indeed be a good match tonight; most boards very closely matched I'd guess - one game on Monday, seven tonight.

From Sean Coffey's site - Bray did win the Armstrong twice:
http://www.irlchess.com/teamevents/armstrong-cup/

I wouldn't be writing the "A" team's Obituary just yet - great result and start for Trinity though. Gonzaga staring down the barrell of their first Armstrong match loss since October 2013 (I don't count the deducted points draw/loss last year - although others may) but could still rescue it with 2/2. The B team will be out for blood too of course

That A vs B match starts tonight too with one game, while the rest will play after the school gets back from Millfield at the weekend.

sodacat11 · 11-10-2018 10:36pm

When I left tonight the best that Rathmines looked like getting out of the seven games played is 1.5 pts and that is being optimistic

Tim Harding · 12-10-2018 10:09am

sodacat11 wrote: »

When I left tonight the best that Rathmines looked like getting out of the seven games played is 1.5 pts and that is being optimistic

Final score, anyone?

Now Gonzaga 3 Trinity 4 with one to be scheduled.

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 12-10-2018 10:23am

Rathmines 1.5-5.5 Gonzaga B; McCabe-McMorrow on Monday.

Gonzaga B 0-1 Gonzaga A.

Bragging rights still with the Bs for now having both played 8 games:
Gonzaga B 5.5
Gonzaga A 4

sodacat11 · 12-10-2018 10:57am

Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »

Rathmines 1.5-5.5 Gonzaga B; McCabe-McMorrow on Monday.

Gonzaga B 0-1 Gonzaga A.

Bragging rights still with the Bs for now having both played 8 games:
Gonzaga B 5.5
Gonzaga A 4

"Bs" is not a very complimentary name LOL . I usually reserve such titles for the likes of Man U and Spurs.

zeitnot · 12-10-2018 2:48pm

sodacat11 wrote: »

Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »

Rathmines 1.5-5.5 Gonzaga B; McCabe-McMorrow on Monday.

Gonzaga B 0-1 Gonzaga A.

Bragging rights still with the Bs for now having both played 8 games:
Gonzaga B 5.5
Gonzaga A 4

"Bs" is not a very complimentary name LOL . I usually reserve such titles for the likes of Man U and Spurs.

I thought Gonzaga 'B' was going to be "Loyola".

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 14-10-2018 12:03pm

zeitnot wrote: »

I thought Gonzaga 'B' was going to be "Loyola".

We’d need to start back in division 6 for that. Also would have no subs

Bray 4.5-3.5 Blanchardstown

Assume the games involving Dublin and Benildus are postponed until after the ECC.

macelligott · 14-10-2018 4:05pm

With the exception of Division 4, the results are very slow to be published :-(

sodacat11 · 14-10-2018 8:39pm

macelligott wrote: »

With the exception of Division 4, the results are very slow to be published :-(

Agreed.I really don't see why they can't be published soon after the matches ending, if not by the league controller then by the captains.

Tim Harding · 14-10-2018 8:43pm

Agreed; we wouldn't have to spend so much time here exchanging information if the LCU site was kept up to date.

Is it true the Benildus and Dublin matches yesterday were completely postponed, or only some of the boards?

mikhail · 14-10-2018 9:12pm

Tim Harding wrote: »

Is it true the Benildus and Dublin matches yesterday were completely postponed, or only some of the boards?

Benildus played all but one board, as far as I know. I haven't heard a result.

sodacat11 · 14-10-2018 9:53pm

Is there another league anywhere in the world, in any sport, where results aren't known until days after the games are played?

prey · 14-10-2018 10:59pm

From Sean Coffey's site - Bray did win the Armstrong twice:
http://www.irlchess.com/teamevents/armstrong-cup/

Indeed. Bray also defended the title in 2001, finishing =1st.
On the day the cup was quickly awarded to Crumlin on the basis of board count in the individual match, a 4-4 draw.
It quickly became clear that no tiebreak was in force -the tiebreak used was taken from the promotion/relegation rule section and did not apply.
It also soon became clear during an utterly shambolic appeal process that this was not going to be corrected.
A subsequent AGM amended the tiebreak rule to apply to all league positions but did not address the 2001 anomaly.

IMO the only correct decision in 2001 was to hold a playoff match and a review now should accept the 2001 Armstrong as a shared title.

mikhail · 15-10-2018 12:08am

sodacat11 wrote: »

Is there another league anywhere in the world, in any sport, where results aren't known until days after the games are played?

Yes.

zeitnot · 15-10-2018 12:27am

prey wrote: »

From Sean Coffey's site - Bray did win the Armstrong twice:
http://www.irlchess.com/teamevents/armstrong-cup/

For most years the results there are simply taken from David McAlister's site: https://irishchesshistory.wordpress.com/provinces/armstrong-cup/ including 1999, 2000, and 2001. That site also gives full season totals.

sodacat11 · 15-10-2018 9:08am

mikhail wrote: »

Yes.

Yes? Can you back that up or is this another offhand statement like the one you made about "numerous reasons" for the ICU and UCU merging when you couldn't even tell us one good reason?

mikhail · 15-10-2018 9:18am

sodacat11 wrote: »

Yes? Can you back that up

Yes.

sodacat11 · 15-10-2018 10:52am

mikhail wrote: »

Yes.

(_x_)

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 15-10-2018 11:42am

From the ICU results bar: Benildus 4-3 Balbriggan

Current table as best I can see:

Trinity 11/15
Elm Mount 9.5/16
Bray 9/15
Blanch 8.5/16
Benildus 7/15
Balbriggan 6.5/15
Rathmines 6/15
Gonzaga B 5.5/8
Gonzaga A 4/8
Dublin 4/8
Dun Laoghaire 3.5/16
Kilkenny 2.5/7

sodacat11 · 15-10-2018 1:57pm

Gonzaga "B" are 5.5/7 but hopefully that will change to 5.5/8 after tonight's battle of the MCs, (Mc Morrow and Mc Cabe)

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 15-10-2018 2:03pm

We're 1-0 down to the A team currently with most of those games due to played this week; hence 5.5/8 currently (5.5/7 from Rathmines and 0/1 from the A match)

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 16-10-2018 12:33am

Draw in the game tonight so 6-2 overall.

zeitnot · 16-10-2018 12:47am

Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »

Draw in the game tonight so 6-2 overall.

Thanks for the prompt update!

Re the other reports, 75 years ago and more results were available in the paper the next day. It's surprising that the net result of all the changes since then has been that the wait has stretched to weeks.

macelligott · 16-10-2018 2:22am

Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »

We're 1-0 down to the A team currently with most of those games due to played this week; hence 5.5/8 currently (5.5/7 from Rathmines and 0/1 from the A match)

“We’re 1-0 down etc.” lacks clarity :-(
Please state team names and round number!
Posts like “R2 Dun Laoghaire 2.5-5.5 Elm Mount “ are clear to everyone :-)

sodacat11 · 16-10-2018 5:14pm

macelligott wrote: »

“We’re 1-0 down etc.” lacks clarity :-(
Please state team names and round number!
Posts like “R2 Dun Laoghaire 2.5-5.5 Elm Mount “ are clear to everyone :-)

It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to work out that the "WE" mentioned must be the "B" team. Elementary my dear Watson!

macelligott · 18-10-2018 7:32am

Still no updated Armstrong results :-(

sodacat11 · 18-10-2018 9:38am

macelligott wrote: »

Still no updated Armstrong results :-(

I'm sure that they got the results quicker in 1888 when the Armstrong started.
I really don't see why team captains can't be given the means to update the site themselves instead of this ridiculous delay.

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 18-10-2018 10:20am

The Rathmines captain and I input our result on Monday and Tuesday this week so must be awaiting approval from an admin.

Gonzaga B 0.5-2.5 Gonzaga A. One game tonight, 2 on Saturday, one next Wednesday. Not sure about the other game but should be within the next week.

sodacat11 · 18-10-2018 11:52am

Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »

The Rathmines captain and I input our result on Monday and Tuesday this week so must be awaiting approval from an admin.

Gonzaga B 0.5-2.5 Gonzaga A. One game tonight, 2 on Saturday, one next Wednesday. Not sure about the other game but should be within the next week.

There is almost an entire second round that needs to be updated.There has got to be a better system for updating the Armstrong results than the LCU way.
While we are talking about the LCU , whatever happened to the Branagan Cup last season, why wasn't it played?
Of course there is always the possibility that maybe it was played and the results just haven't been updated yet.

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 18-10-2018 1:18pm

Not ideal but for now - current standings (I think):
Trinity 11/15
Elm Mount 9.5/16
Bray 9/15
Blanch 8.5/16
Benildus 7/15
Gonzaga B 6.5/11
Balbriggan 6.5/15
Rathmines 6.5/15
Gonzaga A 5.5/10
Dublin 4/8
Dun Laoghaire 3.5/16
Kilkenny 2.5/7

sodacat11 · 18-10-2018 2:49pm

Rathmines 6.6/16

Tim Harding · 18-10-2018 10:35pm

sodacat11 wrote: »

I'm sure that they got the results quicker in 1888 when the Armstrong started.
I really don't see why team captains can't be given the means to update the site themselves instead of this ridiculous delay.

Yes, in the early years results were promptly reported by Thomas Rowland in his column for the Dublin Evening Mail. Some of the games got published too.

sodacat11 · 18-10-2018 11:03pm

Tim Harding wrote: »

Yes, in the early years results were promptly reported by Thomas Rowland in his column for the Dublin Evening Mail. Some of the games got published too.

I'm sure you remember those days well although you must have been quite young at the time.;)

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 18-10-2018 11:09pm

Armstrong results updated now on the LCU site.

Update: Gonzaga A 2.5-1.5 Gonzaga B

Tim Harding · 20-10-2018 9:10pm

Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »

Armstrong results updated now on the LCU site.

Update: Gonzaga A 2.5-1.5 Gonzaga B

Two games played this afternoon alongside the Sona Youth Cup, and the B team drew one of them, so now:
R1 Gonzaga A 4 Gonzaga B 2, two to play.

Gonzaga A unfortunately won the last two games to be played against Trinity so that round 2 match finished 4-4, which incidentally was also the score the last time Gonzaga didn't win the Armstrong.

So, after two rounds, Trinity (on 11/16) will still be at least one point ahead of Gonzaga A with Elm Mount on 9.5 and Bray on 9 (1), apparently still not having played their first round top board game.

As Kilkenny have nine (!) unreported results, it's hard to know how they stand. Were they playing Dublin Chess Club today?

In order for rounds 1 and 2 to be reported for FIDE rating in time for the November list, any outstanding games really need to be played and officially reported by LCU to ICU by next weekend.

Joedryan · 22-10-2018 11:01pm

Is there an up to date league table somewhere?

Tim Harding · 22-10-2018 11:07pm

Joedryan wrote: »

Is there an up to date league table somewhere?

No, that's what we have been complaining about.

The table at
http://www.chessleague.net/chessorg/leinster/table.php?org=1&lid=101
is just the same tonight as it was when I made my previous post.

Some of the missing results can be found above but we still don't know about the nine Kilkenny games, and two of the Gonzaga A v B games are due to be played this week. Also presumably the last Balbriggan v Benildus game.

Joedryan · 22-10-2018 11:34pm

Tim Harding wrote: »

Joedryan wrote: »

Is there an up to date league table somewhere?

No, that's what we have been complaining about.

The table at
http://www.chessleague.net/chessorg/leinster/table.php?org=1&lid=101
is just the same tonight as it was when I made my previous post.

Some of the missing results can be found above but we still don't know about the nine Kilkenny games, and two of the Gonzaga A v B games are due to be played this week. Also presumably the last Balbriggan v Benildus game.

Can the team captains submit results to update that table in real time?

mikhail · 22-10-2018 11:46pm

Joedryan wrote: »

Can the team captains submit results to update that table in real time?

No, the backend is a complicated offline excel/visual basic package Peter Scott put together a good few years ago.

Something more responsive with a simple interface would be a nice upgrade, but finding someone with the skills and time and motivation to write and maintain it (at least until the bugs are worked out) is not trivial. I thought about suggesting a wiki-based approach, but it'd lack functionality beyond a live table and I suspect it'd require a couple of fairly active editors to keep it going. The current system handles ratings files input/output and other functions too, and I'd rather have a slowly updating table than heap work on the leagues controllers or duplicate work.

Joedryan · 22-10-2018 11:55pm

mikhail wrote: »

Joedryan wrote: »

Can the team captains submit results to update that table in real time?

No, the backend is a complicated offline excel/visual basic package Peter Scott put together a good few years ago.

Something more responsive with a simple interface would be a nice upgrade, but finding someone with the skills and time and motivation to write and maintain it (at least until the bugs are worked out) is not trivial. I thought about suggesting a wiki-based approach, but it'd lack functionality beyond a live table and I suspect it'd require a couple of fairly active editors to keep it going. The current system handles ratings files input/output and other functions too, and I'd rather have a slowly updating table than heap work on the leagues controllers or duplicate work.

I had something going an odd 15 years back running of a Microsoft ASP page,

these days I'd probably do it different and add in a bit more security to prevent anarchists from hacking it, but its not that hard really

mikhail · 23-10-2018 12:19am

Joedryan wrote: »

I had something going an odd 15 years back running of a Microsoft ASP page,

these days I'd probably do it different and add in a bit more security to prevent anarchists from hacking it, but its not that hard really

You wouldn't happen to be at a loose end, would you?

Joedryan · 23-10-2018 12:41am

mikhail wrote: »

Joedryan wrote: »

I had something going an odd 15 years back running of a Microsoft ASP page,

these days I'd probably do it different and add in a bit more security to prevent anarchists from hacking it, but its not that hard really

You wouldn't happen to be at a loose end, would you?

up to my ears at the min but this is not a particularly difficult effort

LCU feel free to get on to me if you wish

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 23-10-2018 12:59am

Gonzaga A 5-2 Gonzaga B (Collins vs O'Donnell to play this week)

Gonzaga B 1-0 Balbriggan (late tactic in my game from a worse position)

Flimsy table update:
Trinity 11/16
Elm Mount 9.5/16
Gonzaga A 9/15
Bray 9/15
Gonzaga B 9/16
Blanch 8.5/16
Benildus 7/15
Balbriggan 6.5/16
Rathmines 6.5/16
Dublin 4/8
Dun Laoghaire 3.5/16
Kilkenny 2.5/7

Kilkenny CC was away on their club trip (to Germany) last week while Dublin were at the ECC so presumably that game will happen soon - maybe this Saturday if neither team is going in numbers to Limerick. De Verdier vs Quinn is this Thursday I believe. Healy vs Nolan (delayed for the ECC) should be soon too bringing us up to date.

sodacat11 · 23-10-2018 7:48am

I am no expert on computers but it beggars belief that the chess league site cannot be updated by the captains of the teams as soon as the matches finish.
If the results were sent in to the Controller by carrier pigeon and then posted in envelopes with stamps to each club we would have the results sooner than we get them on the chess league site now (and that is not an exaggeration).

mikhail · 23-10-2018 9:12am

sodacat11 wrote: »

I am no expert on computers but it beggars belief that the chess league site cannot be updated by the captains of the teams as soon as the matches finish.
If the results were sent in to the Controller by carrier pigeon and then posted in envelopes with stamps to each club we would have the results sooner than we get them on the chess league site now (and that is not an exaggeration).

I'm sure they'll welcome your offer of help.

sodacat11 · 23-10-2018 1:40pm

mikhail wrote: »

I'm sure they'll welcome your offer of help.

I will supply the pigeons.

Armstrong Cup 2018-19

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