Expectation of Men to do physical Work in certain Jobs

blinding · 02-09-2019 5:47pm

If the women cannot do the job equally they should not be in the job .

jmayo · 02-09-2019 7:11pm

Hey lads my answer was not meant to be specifically about women not doing certain roles, but people breaking their ar*es for a company/employer when others be they women or men aren't.

Why should one guy break his ass doing demanding work when others could help share the load and are not.
And that equally applies to other guys as women.

And yes there is the implied concept nowadays that even though women are considered, and so rightfully so, equal to men it doesn't apply when doing manual stuff like lifting and carrying or doing shyte jobs.

Strumms · 02-09-2019 11:32pm

jmayo wrote: »

And yes there is the implied concept nowadays that even though women are considered, and so rightfully so, equal to men it doesn't apply when doing manual stuff like lifting and carrying or doing shyte jobs.

If a female say working in an office is delegated to take a couple of heavyish boxes of files down in the lift to the basement, I’m not going to have the slightest respect for her if she were to come out with guff like... “sure can’t you ask one of the lads to do it ?” Unsatisfactory. If on the other hand she asks one of the lads or indeed any colleagues to help and share the load..fine and dandy...

Sir Guy who smiles · 03-09-2019 8:39am

Problem Of Motivation wrote: »

Sorry, you're right. I'm just so used to sarcasm from people on boards.

And you handle it so gracefully!

chite · 03-09-2019 9:41am

Used to work in a place where people would buy heavy items such as gas cylinders, bags of 20kg livestock feed, etc.
If the manager was aware that I had a customer getting one of these he'd immediately call one of the lads to carry them for the customer. Over time I would just tell the manager that I can carry them despite doubt and incredulous looks, but they accepted my ability other than saying to be careful.
Funnily enough it was female customers who would have trouble accepting that I could carry heavy stock to their cars when they requested help, telling them that I go to the gym usually helped dispel their doubt. One in particular refused my help and insisted on having a male staff member help her instead. I told her that I wouldn't have offered her help if I couldn't do it, I just got another staff member to cover me while I went out and carried out the bag of coal to her car before she carried on complaining. That shut her up :cool:

topper75 · 03-09-2019 12:21pm

fat zombie wrote: »

Many men walking the streets today carry DNA that would not have survived in a war torn continental Europe.

I'm trying desperately hard here to understand what would fend off a 17-pounder shell from hitting your house or stop the bistrot you are dining in from being raked by fire from an MG42.
It can't be R1b anyway.

Reviews and Books Galore · 03-09-2019 12:36pm

Did Santana's post get deleted as a matter of interest? About the checkout guy? I had an interesting reply :P

Plopsu · 03-09-2019 1:59pm

Does the job actually involve lifting? It sounds like it and if so, that's what you're being paid to do. Now if you're being asked to do that in an unsafe manner, that's a different matter. Have they provided any kind of manual handling training? Are they asking you to do things outside the guidelines you were given in the training?
Certainly passing heavy boxes over a four foot wall sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

harry Bailey esq · 03-09-2019 2:24pm

Problem Of Motivation wrote: »

With this thread I hope to highlight the situation that some men are put in with the expectations upon them to do the lifting, and how people may take for granted of them. The problem is that people will think a guy is a pussy if he takes caution or refuses to lift things, but I would actually say that sometimes it takes courage to refuse to lift.

One day in a factory where I worked, I was being passed heavy boxes over 4 foot wall. It wasn't in my usual line of work. I said I'd do a few, but then the boxes just kept coming and coming. Eventually I put my foot down and said to the supervisor "I need to know how many more of these boxes are due to come, and I might need help in lifting them". He was surprised that I said this and smiled at me. He said "yeah yeah, of course", and I called another guy from further up the line to come lift with me. I'm bloody glad I did ask for help because there were about another 40 boxes came!! It wasn't just the fact that it was badly planned, but the attitude of the supervisor when I spoke up. And I know it's very unlikely but any time a freak accident happens, it will be a guy that gets something like a finger chopped off.

Another time I remember when I was taking bacterial samples in a factory, once part I had to get to was up a high ladder. The lady showing the routine (first day) had to get another guy to go up there to show me the routine because she was "afraid of heights". When it came to asking someone to climb the ladder for her, there was this sudden change in her demeanor and she sort of acted like a little girl... like it was supposed to be cute that she couldn't be bothered putting herself at risk. She eventually said to a senior male colleague "can you get 'one of the lads' to go up there for me?". He replied "if you want me to go up the ladder, just ask". He had to bring me up and show me what to do.

Story about another manual Labor Dilemma I once faced

Another day at this factory I was working on a production line and part of the task involved lifting 25 kg boxes from a pallet and lifting them over to the conveyor line. There were about three people on each side of the production line, but the pallet of boxes was on one side of the conveyor. After a few minutes of work, the supervisor (female) came by and just said "two guys on this side". Seeing as I had been doing all the lifting work the previous day, I decided I'd stay where I was on the side that didn't involve lifting. Another poor guy on my side realised that I wasn't budging so he moved over instead of me. For the next hour I could tell that he was sort of looking over towards me with disgust at my laziness. You see if it were a male supervisor calling these same shots then at least I might feel that he'd have done years of lifting himself!

But the previous day when I had been doing all the heavy lifting, I had made sure that I was lifting correctly, and that I took my time. At one point in time I could see this supervisor staring at me. Maybe I'm surmising, but it was as if she was thinking to herself "would that lazy guy not go a bit faster?". When there was a bit of down time, I decided to sit on the boxes for about 30 seconds or so. Every now and then when I'd sit on the boxes I'd be aware that she could see, and I knew that I wouldn't get into trouble as long as I didn't do it right in front of her. But this day, I'd had enough of her nastiness towards me. I sat there until I knew she'd have to do something. She gave a gesture with here hands for me to get up, as if I was a dog almost. I just looked right at her. I got up in my own time... albeit only a few seconds later. But it was enough to piss her off. Straight away she walkie talkied to some manager, and then told me to report to him. I said to her that if that manager wants to speak to me, then he knows where I am. At this point she threw a complete tantrum.

Later she was gossiping about me to other Polish fork lift drivers that were passing by. I could tell by the way they were looking over at me. For about the next hour I was fearing when and if that manager was going to show up and see me, and what would happen if he did? He didn't show in the end! I'm not saying I got away with it, but that was all that happen that day.

Username checks out

Problem Of Motivation · 03-09-2019 7:21pm

harry Bailey esq wrote: »

Username checks out

How many times do I have to hear that joke?

pinkyeye · 03-09-2019 7:46pm

Plopsu wrote: »

Does the job actually involve lifting? It sounds like it and if so, that's what you're being paid to do. Now if you're being asked to do that in an unsafe manner, that's a different matter. Have they provided any kind of manual handling training? Are they asking you to do things outside the guidelines you were given in the training?
Certainly passing heavy boxes over a four foot wall sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

OP doesn't even work there anymore, this thread is just another "I don't like the wimmen telling me what to do" one.

pinkyeye · 03-09-2019 7:49pm

chite wrote: »

Used to work in a place where people would buy heavy items such as gas cylinders, bags of 20kg livestock feed, etc.
If the manager was aware that I had a customer getting one of these he'd immediately call one of the lads to carry them for the customer. Over time I would just tell the manager that I can carry them despite doubt and incredulous looks, but they accepted my ability other than saying to be careful.
Funnily enough it was female customers who would have trouble accepting that I could carry heavy stock to their cars when they requested help, telling them that I go to the gym usually helped dispel their doubt. One in particular refused my help and insisted on having a male staff member help her instead. I told her that I wouldn't have offered her help if I couldn't do it, I just got another staff member to cover me while I went out and carried out the bag of coal to her car before she carried on complaining. That shut her up :cool:

Fair play to you, you obviously keep very fit but there are different weight limits for men and women and there are good reasons for this.

It's simple biology. 16kg is the maximum for a woman by the way.

Roger Hassenforder · 03-09-2019 8:27pm

pinkyeye wrote: »

Fair play to you, you obviously keep very fit but there are different weight limits for men and women and there are good reasons for this.

It's simple biology. 16kg is the maximum for a woman by the way.

Have you a link for the 16kg, i though it was a UK guideline. Theres no max weights in Ireland.

(Stand to be corrected though, and shove it in the face of the next manual handling instructor!)

pinkyeye · 03-09-2019 8:51pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Have you a link for the 16kg, i though it was a UK guideline. Theres no max weights in Ireland.

(Stand to be corrected though, and shove it in the face of the next manual handling instructor!)

Don't know if this will work but I'll try it.

https://www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publications/Retail/Management_Manual_Handling.pdf

Roger Hassenforder · 03-09-2019 9:01pm

pinkyeye wrote: »

Don't know if this will work but I'll try it.

https://www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publications/Retail/Management_Manual_Handling.pdf

Worked all right, cheers!
Not being picky, but its one of the few things I remember about manual handling. And something about twisting and knees!

The 16kg midlift is guidance (from uk) to assist in risk assessments.
In Ireland.
"The Regulations set no specific requirements such as weight limits" (pg 18)

pinkyeye · 03-09-2019 9:02pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Worked all right, cheers!
Not being picky, but its one of the few things I remember about manual handling. And something about twisting and knees!

The 16kg midlift is guidance (from uk) to assist in risk assessments.
In Ireland.
"The Regulations set no specific requirements such as weight limits" (pg 18)

Did you see the diagram with the guidelines? Does it not show that men and women are considered different?

Feisar · 03-09-2019 9:08pm

From experience as a barman any keg lifting falls on the men to carry out.

pinkyeye · 03-09-2019 9:11pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Worked all right, cheers!
Not being picky, but its one of the few things I remember about manual handling. And something about twisting and knees!

The 16kg midlift is guidance (from uk) to assist in risk assessments.
In Ireland.
"The Regulations set no specific requirements such as weight limits" (pg 18)

I get your point by the way but they can state all they like that there are no specific requirements but when it comes to an insurance claim all of a sudden these "guidelines" come into play.

I know this from experience of an ex employee who took a claim.

Roger Hassenforder · 03-09-2019 9:25pm

pinkyeye wrote: »

I get your point by the way but they can state all they like that there are no specific requirements but when it comes to an insurance claim all of a sudden these "guidelines" come into play.

I know this from experience of an ex employee who took a claim.

Id say thats more a claim on inadequate risk assessment - not a safe place etc tho?

pinkyeye · 03-09-2019 9:53pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Id say thats more a claim on inadequate risk assessment - not a safe place etc tho?

Okay, you're not going to answer my question so I'm wasting my time here. That's it, I'm out.

You don't want to admit that men and women are assessed differently.

SEPT 23 1989 · 03-09-2019 9:59pm

The thread really needs some Fred

Box lifting ffs

Roger Hassenforder · 05-09-2019 9:11pm

pinkyeye wrote: »

Okay, you're not going to answer my question so I'm wasting my time here. That's it, I'm out.

You don't want to admit that men and women are assessed differently.

Jesus, cool your jets!
Theres no regulatory max limit in Ireland for men or women. Fact. It says it in your link.

The regs refer to guidelines of weights for men/women that any risk assessment should have regard to. I.e. what weights are your staff lifting, can the risk be mitigated. If they were lifting pencils and someone took a claim after injuring themselves, to find there was no risk assessment, its ching ching. If someone was lifting weights over the guidelines, you can be damn sure that would be fairly damming. But there is no max weight someone should be made lift.

So back to my question, there is no max weights for men or women in Ireland, as you claimed.

And whats the question?

facehugger99 · 05-09-2019 9:28pm

I’m always amazed, in my place of work, how quickly the idea of gender equality is jettisoned by the female members of staff, when our secretary requests help moving boxes of A4 paper down to the stationery room.

pinkyeye · 05-09-2019 9:30pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Jesus, cool your jets!
Theres no regulatory max limit in Ireland for men or women. Fact. It says it in your link.

The regs refer to guidelines of weights for men/women that any risk assessment should have regard to. I.e. what weights are your staff lifting, can the risk be mitigated. If they were lifting pencils and someone took a claim after injuring themselves, to find there was no risk assessment, its ching ching. If someone was lifting weights over the guidelines, you can be damn sure that would be fairly damming. But there is no max weight someone should be made lift.

So back to my question, there is no max weights for men or women in Ireland, as you claimed.

And whats the question?

The question is fairly simple, are men and women considered differently when looking at the weights that can be lifted?

It's a yes or no question. Not that difficult.

Roger Hassenforder · 05-09-2019 11:15pm

pinkyeye wrote: »

The question is fairly simple, are men and women considered differently when looking at the weights that can be lifted?

It's a yes or no question. Not that difficult.

In statute/regulation, from a manual handling persepective, No.

But when you're undertaking a risk assessment, you should have regard to the task first, the person second.
Theres English guidelines referenced in a HSA book, you seem to be conflating with something. I dunno. These give weights/distances from body, for both sexes, to give a guide to what might be considered acceptable, but have no regard to age, ability, repetition, environmental conditions etc. Its a bit like asking, are young healthy men allowed lift heavier weights than older, retirement aged men.

Anyway, all i remember at this late hour, is you saying women arent allowed lift more than 16kg (or something), which is, as your own link clearly stated, is wrong. Theres no max weight.

But for some reason you're in a snot about it. Its no biggie, i wasnt picking a row, just queried a "statement of fact" you made.

Danzy · 06-09-2019 12:05am

Feisar wrote: »

From experience as a barman any keg lifting falls on the men to carry out.

That is reasonable though.

With a bit of practice though anyone could carry them

Male muscle mass, bone density, weight all mean even very most of lads could lift one.

El_Duderino 09 · 06-09-2019 10:01am

facehugger99 wrote: »

I’m always amazed, in my place of work, how quickly the idea of gender equality is jettisoned by the female members of staff, when our secretary requests help moving boxes of A4 paper down to the stationery room.

Yeah it’s similar to holding the door for a woman or offering the seat on a bus to a woman. Every now and again there are threads about those 2 topics and it always amazes me how many men insist it’s only natural and correct manners to open a door for women and get up to offer her your seat on the bus.

And I suppose equally there are women who think it’s only natural that men should carry things. They’re old attitudes that will take time to change and are in the process changing right now.

Expectation of Men to do physical Work in certain Jobs

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