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Bet not paid out and cancelled

2

Comments

  • #52
    Wilfuler.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 183 ✭✭Wilfuler.


    SonOfGoat wrote: »
    Well I've never heard of it before. I back mostly with powers if betting via bricks and mortar. I can have 500 on a horse at the price available and anything over that is SP. Therefor, I usually split it into multiples of 500 if I want the price. There have been times I just placed the bet in one shop. They'd ring up head office and inquire and accecpt or reject. And if it won, they would pay out 100% of the time. Bookies don't rip people off by not paying out, they rip people off through their prices, the 'over-round' to be exact.
    You obviously don't win much if they're taking your bets like that


  • #53
    SonOfGoat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭SonOfGoat


    Wilfuler. wrote: »
    You obviously don't win much if they're taking your bets like that

    Stop talking nonsense, it shows how low your IQ is.


  • #54
    Wilfuler.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 183 ✭✭Wilfuler.


    SonOfGoat wrote: »
    Stop talking nonsense, it shows how low your IQ is.

    Them taking your bets shows how low your IQ is


  • #55
    Confused Punter
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Confused Punter


    SonOfGoat wrote: »
    Well I've never heard of it before. I back mostly with powers if betting via bricks and mortar. I can have 500 on a horse at the price available and anything over that is SP. Therefor, I usually split it into multiples of 500 if I want the price. There have been times I just placed the bet in one shop. They'd ring up head office and inquire and accecpt or reject. And if it won, they would pay out 100% of the time. Bookies don't rip people off by not paying out, they rip people off through their prices, the 'over-round' to be exact.

    I'll even go further, they take your bets because you lose more than win. Therefor you are a profitable account to have. Selective sports punters who take advantage of over odds and bet selectively often have issues with bets placed or lower amount bets placed. This is the first time I have had one cancelled though.
    And pp wouldn't allow you to split into multiples of €500 and maintain the same price, each bet of €500 would trigger a review of current market price and each time your odds would lower.
    I asked a sensible question hoping to receive a sensible answer from punters who bet larger amounts and have had issues like this before. If I wanted the weekend punter or €1 euro e/w punter I would have asked you.
    And they haven't ripped me off as you say, they have cancelled the bet saying it was taken in error by the operator. And why they do this is they don't like punters who make money they seek to only service the mugs.


  • #56
    Wilfuler.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 183 ✭✭Wilfuler.


    ^^Bookies task is to hoover up money from casual gamblers addicts and mugs

    Anyone out to make money becomes a target


  • #57
    marvin80
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭marvin80


    Wilfuler. wrote: »
    You obviously don't win much if they're taking your bets like that

    Have a look at some of his tips on the Horse Racing thread and you'll see he has a terrible record!


  • #58
    marvin80
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭marvin80


    Happy4all wrote: »
    Bets are considered a gentleman's agreement and not legally binding. Solicitor would be a waste of time. IBAS and name and shame best approach.

    I've also heard there not legally binding - naming and shaming on social media might be your best bet.


  • #59
    coolshannagh28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭coolshannagh28


    My nephew worked for a large bookie in their HQ for a time, his job was tracking and closing profitable accounts , mainly large single football betting FWIW.


  • #60
    Ashleigh1986
    Registered Users Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Ashleigh1986


    The " mistake " here is that the employee didn't obviously contact head office to see could he accept the " large bet " in the first place.
    If he had head office would have looked at the CCTV camera at the premises to see do they recognise you before seeing would they accept that amount.
    It's obviously a mistake their employee made and therefore they should pay out and honour the bet .
    Only they know how much they had taken in on that market for that match .


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  • #61
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,375 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    marvin80 wrote: »
    I've also heard there not legally binding - naming and shaming on social media might be your best bet.

    https://youtu.be/Mr7-Whke7Xs?t=46

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • #62
    cute geoge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭cute geoge


    Confused Punter wrote: »
    I'll name bookmaker tomorrow or Tuesday after i receive my initial outlay back, then try and work out what I can do going forward.

    So if you collect your initial outlay does this waive any rights you might have ??
    I taught bookmakers needed a licence to operate from the local court could this be any way to obstruct them?


  • #63
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    An awful lot of nonsense posted in this thread.

    Assuming your post is true, you'll tell us what firm it is. Show us the docket minus the number.

    The limits on payouts in shops for single bets is not dictated by stake but rather payout and who you are. Try and have €500 on an 33/1 shot at early morning prices and they will pull the shutters down.

    The OP had €1800 on a 5/6 shot to win €1500. If a bookie try's to wiggle out of that then they are on a hiding to nothing and shouldn't have a licence in the first instance. Error my backside.

    Someone had to count 1800 at the counter and they would have checked the bet was acceptable. Too late to change their mind after the event. If you are part of a known gang of shrewdies then they will make a song and dance of accepting any kind of bet.

    OP, I'd be going back and demanding to see the manager. Scream the house down until they pay you. Take to social media if still no joy. Then IBAS.

    Finally last chance saloon is the small claims court which is capped at 2k. The threat alone should suffice, so I wouldn't worry about whether the stake might or might not be counted.


  • #64
    Just Saying
    Registered Users Posts: 305 ✭✭Just Saying


    Assuming the facts are as stated in the opening post I would

    1. Under no circumstances accept a refund/voiding of the bet.
    2 .Contact Head Office in writing explaining that you have a valid receipt for a bet thar you paid for and state that you want to get paid in full.If they dont pay immediately you are going to IBAS.
    3.if 2. fails go to IBAS and you will get paid.

    Size of a bet is not reason for voiding it whereas incorrect prices can be changed.


  • #65
    Always Tired
    Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭Always Tired


    Yeah if you accept the refund that will be the end of it. Something to be aware of OP. You will have no case once you take your stake back.


  • #66
    ShamoBuc
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 33,246 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    Interesting thread, a screenshot would be nice though.

    As mentioned, I would be talking with the manager and then Head office before accepting any refund.
    Money wise, it might not be worth it to them to have it all over Twitter, goodwill gesture this time of year etc might be a better way to handle it, assuming we have all the relevant info.

    Keep us updated OP.


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  • #67
    Wilfuler.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 183 ✭✭Wilfuler.


    STB. wrote: »
    An awful lot of nonsense posted in this thread.

    Assuming your post is true, you'll tell us what firm it is. Show us the docket minus the number.

    The limits on payouts in shops for single bets is not dictated by stake but rather payout and who you are. Try and have €500 on an 33/1 shot at early morning prices and they will pull the shutters down.

    The OP had €1800 on a 5/6 shot to win €1500. If a bookie try's to wiggle out of that then they are on a hiding to nothing and shouldn't have a licence in the first instance. Error my backside.

    Someone had to count 1800 at the counter and they would have checked the bet was acceptable. Too late to change their mind after the event. If you are part of a known gang of shrewdies then they will make a song and dance of accepting any kind of bet.

    OP, I'd be going back and demanding to see the manager. Scream the house down until they pay you. Take to social media if still no joy. Then IBAS.

    Finally last chance saloon is the small claims court which is capped at 2k. The threat alone should suffice, so I wouldn't worry about whether the stake might or might not be counted.

    Nonsense on your end they can pull the bet


  • #68
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    ShamoBuc wrote: »
    .
    Money wise, it might not be worth it to them to have it all over Twitter, goodwill gesture this time of year etc might be a better way to handle it, assuming we have all the relevant info.

    Keep us updated OP.

    Oh vanity is most certainly their weakness. Anyone who doesnt take a sizable bet on an odds on shot shouldn't be in the business nor have a licence Shamo.

    You certainly cannot take 1800 cash accepting the bet and then change your mind when the result doesn't suit. 1500 should be a negligible liability for any bookie.

    There's a well known shrewdie punter and mover and owner who has a twitter page where he has posted videos of his laughable experience in two Boylesports shops putting on 50 euro. No doubt his picture is behind the counter.


  • #69
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Wilfuler. wrote: »
    Nonsense on your end they can pull the bet


    No they cannot. They would have to prove some form of wrong doing. It's a try on. For that reason alone they should be named. The punter will get paid.


  • #70
    Confused Punter
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Confused Punter


    Interesting conditions on IBAS site

    16. IBAS considers gambling transactions to be confidential between the parties concerned. To this end, Operators and Customers are requested to keep the details of the Dispute and IBAS's ruling confidential and, in particular refrain from making any public comment during or after the Dispute process. IBAS reserves the right not to adjudicate on any future Dispute brought by a party that has previously broken confidentiality without reasonable explanation. The obligation to observe confidentiality will not apply insofar as either party is required to provide information to a regulator, or in the course of legal proceedings.

    So if i take to social media or name them they wont adjudicate the case. This is just laughable at best. So atm i cant post screenshot or name them by the looks of it or i don't have a case


  • #71
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    "brought by a party that has previously broken confidentiality without reasonable explanation"

    The reasonable explanation was 1. to warn other punters of the shenanigans, and 2. to give the rogue bookie an opportunity openly to correct their mistake and pay out.

    1. Manager.
    2. Twitter.
    3. IBAS.
    4. Small claims court.

    If you ask the manager in full firm voice why they are nor paying 1500 euros for a legitimate bet on an odds on shot, you'll get plenty of attention. Tell the manager your next moves. It wont get past 1.

    Pick a colour. Green, Blue, Red. Whats your favorite colour ? Is it Blue ?


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  • #72
    BoroMan32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 617 ✭✭✭BoroMan32


    If the details as posted in the opening post are true then I'd be surprised if the bet isn't paid out albeit if it takes a bit of a song and a dance.

    Paul Fairhead is, as mentioned by others on this thread, a very good man to have on your side in relation to gambling disputes.

    It is a sad state of affairs that you'd even have hassle with a so called 'major' bookmaker taking €1,800 on a sports handicap bet @ 5/6. The industry in this country badly needs some form of regulation as the behaviour of the bigger firms is absolutely disgusting in many respects. I was in Powers over Christmas and the two lads on the in shop 'radio' were constantly sh!tting on about horses and dogs being certainties and one of them actually referred to a greyhound race by saying ''gambles at Crayford nearly always win''. Sickening stuff.


  • #73
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    It's all very odd. A liability of €1500 before a large professional Rugby game? There will be loads of lads win far more than that on a lucky 15 over Christmas. It's exactly the type of bet they want to take tbh.


  • #74
    ibrahimovic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 437 ✭✭ibrahimovic


    I've had many disputes with bookies, had a 7k confiscation recently that was overturned as soon as i wrote a letter to their ceo. Here is some decent info altough some is UK based.

    https://mikecruickshank.com/bookmaker-casino-disputes/


  • #75
    Just Saying
    Registered Users Posts: 305 ✭✭Just Saying


    Wilfuler. wrote: »
    Nonsense on your end they can pull the bet

    They CANNOT pull the bet.

    Once the bet has been accepted ,struck at the correct price and paid for it is a valid bet and must be honoured by a licenced bookmaker.

    Any talk of limits etc. are a red herring and only designed to put you off.

    Go through official channels.If you do not get satisfaction and full payment from Head Office go to IBAS which is the dispute resolution channel.

    It is also very important to keep a record of all communication with them.


  • #76
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Would it be normal for shop counter staff (of any level) to take a €1800 (single) from a unknown punter, without even a quick wave, call or some other confirmation to the nearby Manager or even HQ?
    At very least, a thumbs up from another general member of staff ideally a shift supervisor.

    My local independent shop would take about 3 days to accept such a bet, other larger chains might want a FRS (biometric node-point) entry, {without request}, for their own future reference.


  • #77
    Wilfuler.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 183 ✭✭Wilfuler.


    Just Saying wrote: »
    They CANNOT pull the bet.

    Once the bet has been accepted ,struck at the correct price and paid for it is a valid bet and must be honoured by a licenced bookmaker.

    Any talk of limits etc. are a red herring and only designed to put you off.

    Go through official channels.If you do not get satisfaction and full payment from Head Office go to IBAS which is the dispute resolution channel.

    It is also very important to keep a record of all communication with them.

    They can pull it it'll be in their t+c's


  • #78
    yaboya1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    I smell a rat.
    Leinster were 11/10 ish in the match odds before kick off, yet you backed them -4 at a shorter price.
    Something doesn't add up.


  • #79
    Kauto
    Registered Users Posts: 823 ✭✭✭Kauto


    yaboya1 wrote: »
    I smell a rat.
    Leinster were 11/10 ish in the match odds before kick off, yet you backed them -4 at a shorter price.
    Something doesn't add up.

    Leinster were 4/5 earlier in the week which would usually be a -2/3 handicap but def not -4. They were robbing you on the handicap to start with.
    If it's one of the bigger operators just get in touch with their PR people and threaten to post it on Twitter etc. Will soon get paid out.


  • #80
    yaboya1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    Confused Punter wrote: »
    I am somewhat of a semi pro sports punter, yesterday I placed a wager with a well known national bookmaker. The bet was €1800 on Leinster -4 handicap at odds of 5/6 for a total return of €3300.

    Said the bet was placed the day of the match.
    Thinking 5/6 -4pts is a gift from God when they were odds against 2nd favs doesn't suggest a semi pro sports punter to me.


  • #81
    Johnny Sausage
    Closed Accounts Posts: 890 ✭✭✭Johnny Sausage


    yaboya1 wrote: »
    Said the bet was placed the day of the match.
    Thinking 5/6 -4pts is a gift from God when they were odds against 2nd favs doesn't suggest a semi pro sports punter to me.

    A semi pro fantasist or WUM perhaps


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  • #82
    Gavin "shels"
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,965 ✭✭✭✭Gavin "shels"


    Just an the IBAS thing, you'll be waiting months for a decision. Used it once, had essentially proof it wasn't a palpable error (odds were the same across the board) and I wasn't given the benefit of the doubt.


  • #83
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Wilfuler. wrote: »
    They can pull it it'll be in their t+c's


    By any chance are you a bookie ?

    The only reason they refuse to pay is if there was an obvious mistake in pricing or where they.

    Talk some some sense please. Several times you have to be corrected. You cannot unaccept a legit bet because it came in. In this case a bet matched at a legit odds on price by an employee who had to count 1800 euro.

    If they did this constantly they would lose their licence. If they don't act as gentlemen, you make them.

    What they can do is restrict your bets in future. Its a try on. Their payout limit on rugby are 250k.


  • #84
    yaboya1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    STB. wrote: »
    In this case a bet matched at a legit odds on price by an employee who had to count 1800 euro.

    That's only if you believe it happened.
    How can anyone who calls themselves a semi pro punter back a team at 5/6 -4pts when they're a bigger price off scratch?


  • #85
    Heres Johnny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Heres Johnny


    Leinster were always favourites for this game, I think 5/6 at - 4 was correct odds. Its a bit tight of the bookie not to offer 10/11 at least though. Strange they would not pay out as I'm pretty sure they'd be confident of the winnings being 'reinvested' with them, but then again a friend of mine was sent an email and his online account closed 'in the duty we have to our shareholders'.

    In other words, we can take your money but if you take too much of ours, it's goodnight.

    I think he had staked about 40k in the previous 2 years, a very large number of small bets, and he was up 10k and they didn't like it at all.


  • #86
    yaboya1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    Heres Johnny wrote: »
    Leinster were always favourites for this game, I think 5/6 at - 4 was correct odds.

    Munster were odds on and Leinster were odds against before kick off.


  • #87
    Heres Johnny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Heres Johnny


    yaboya1 wrote: »
    Munster were odds on and Leinster were odds against before kick off.

    That's not what I saw with paddy Power. Leinster were - 2 at 10/11. But it may have been day before game. Gibson Park pulling out and a scrum half making his debut may have changed the odds though I will concede.


  • #88
    yaboya1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    Heres Johnny wrote: »
    That's not what I saw with paddy Power. Leinster were - 2 at 10/11. But it may have been day before game. Gibson Park pulling out and a scrum half making his debut may have changed the odds though I will concede.

    The odds minutes before kick off were as I stated above.
    Assuming what you say to be true the day before (Leinster -2 @ 10/11), how did the semi pro punter get a shorter price the same day for Leinster -4?
    As I said, I smell a rat.


  • #89
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Joining late. If there's no other recourse, wouldn't it be a valid argument to ask what the max bet should have been and they pay you out based on that and refund the rest of the money?

    It's a really shltty thing to happen.


  • #90
    yaboya1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It's a really shltty thing to happen.

    Only if it happened, which is very unlikely.


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  • #91
    PEACEBROTHER
    Registered Users Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭PEACEBROTHER


    Why not post a picture of docket to there twitter and ask for explanation as to why it’s not being paid out


  • #92
    Heres Johnny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Heres Johnny


    yaboya1 wrote: »
    The odds minutes before kick off were as I stated above.
    Assuming what you say to be true the day before (Leinster -2 @ 10/11), how did the semi pro punter get a shorter price the same day for Leinster -4?
    As I said, I smell a rat.

    Missed the bit where he said semi pro, but I see it now. I don't believe in semi pro gamblers anyway, the best and biggest gamblers I know admit they are down over their lives. Anyone who thinks they're up long term are deluded


  • #93
    Nunu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭Nunu


    Staff in bookies take large stakes all the time and then get a call from hq who was that customer... you should have rang that one over...ring next bet etc...

    I’ve never heard of them cancelling a bet if the the market and price were legit.
    If that’s the case you’ll defo get paid out if you push it.


  • #94
    chooseusername
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,888 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Bet instructions may have been ambiguous,
    Can happen unintentionally or otherwise especially with handicap betting.
    What price would Munster have been +4?


  • #95
    BoldReason
    Closed Accounts Posts: 704 ✭✭✭BoldReason


    This is almost certainly fantasy. But on the off chance it is not do the following.

    1. Under absolutely no circumstances accept your money back until you have exhausted all avenues to getting paid.
    2. Contact customer support and bet dispute over the phone and ask to speak to someone senior. Also send an email to their bet dispute department to open a case with them.
    3. Contact @BoycottBetfred and @gondorffhenry on twitter. Explain the issue and also send them a screenshot of the bet. Paul will help if there is a case to be made.
    4. Open a case with IBAS. This will take 6 months to 2 years to resolve. However if all is how you say the bookies don't have a leg to stand on.

    Do not accept your original stake back until you have exhausted these channels.
    Best of luck.


  • #96
    gmufc19
    Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭gmufc19


    Why will it take IBAS 6 months to 2 years to resolve the dispute?

    Could OP ask IBAS to instruct that the bet is refunded while the dispute is resolved? Six months, let alone 2 years, is an awful long time to leave €1,800 with the bookie.


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  • #97
    Wilfuler.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 183 ✭✭Wilfuler.


    gmufc19 wrote: »
    Why will it take IBAS 6 months to 2 years to resolve the dispute?

    Could OP ask IBAS to instruct that the bet is refunded while the dispute is resolved? Six months, let alone 2 years, is an awful long time to leave €1,800 with the bookie.

    No regulation ,they slow-play the dispute


  • #98
    BoldReason
    Closed Accounts Posts: 704 ✭✭✭BoldReason


    gmufc19 wrote: »
    Why will it take IBAS 6 months to 2 years to resolve the dispute?

    Could OP ask IBAS to instruct that the bet is refunded while the dispute is resolved? Six months, let alone 2 years, is an awful long time to leave €1,800 with the bookie.

    Unfortunately that is just the way it is. They work at their own pace and will usually look for any possible way to rule against the punter.

    It is a long time indeed and quite often the bookmakers may just pay out to avoid having to deal with the dispute in the first place. But as I said if this is how the OP says it is he needs to be prepared to go all the way. If he is indeed a semi pro punter then 1 bet held up is hardly going to cause him to go hungry.

    If it was me I would not be collecting 1800 quid just because you don't want the bookies having it. I would not be accepting a partial payout or stake returned without more answers.

    Who is the bookmaker OP?


  • #99
    BoroMan32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 617 ✭✭✭BoroMan32


    yaboya1 wrote: »
    Only if it happened, which is very unlikely.

    I completely agree, and was dubious about the OP from the start, but in fairness this thread has thrown up some interesting discussion.

    As for IBAS you'll need a tighter than tight case, as they'll do all in their power to find in favour of the bookmaker.


  • #100
    BoldReason
    Closed Accounts Posts: 704 ✭✭✭BoldReason


    BoroMan32 wrote: »
    I completely agree, and was dubious about the OP from the start, but in fairness this thread has thrown up some interesting discussion.

    As for IBAS you'll need a tighter than tight case, as they'll do all in their power to find in favour of the bookmaker.

    I'm also sceptical but I said I would put up advice anyway as it may be helpful to someone. I have opened a case with IBAS myself in the past. They are beyond useless tbh. The dispute ended up getting resolved during the IBAS process. The bookmaker called me one day to tell me they would pay me the full amount owed and so I closed the IBAS case.
    But I think it is worth it to open the case with them just to show that you are willing to fight it.

    If you are opening a case with IBAS ensure you have a dispute logged with the bookmaker first. Do this by calling or emailing them. Ask them for a dispute number that you can provide to IBAS


  • #101
    Getoffmytrain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 104 ✭✭Getoffmytrain


    As others have pointed out the game went off Munster -1, it was Leinster -1 the day before.
    The fact the bet was placed at odds of 5/6 rather than 10/11 indicates it was probably an In-running bet, possibly when Leinster went 7-0 up when playing with the wind.


    I'm guessing the odds might have changed while the bet was being put on or the money counted etc.


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