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Bet not paid out and cancelled

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245

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    #32
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Confused Punter wrote: »
    I'll name bookmaker tomorrow or Tuesday after i receive my initial outlay back, then try and work out what I can do going forward.

    Sounds like a total rip off to me, make a photocopy of your betting slip and get some legal advice. Start with the Citizens Information office which is free.

    If you don't like the legal advice you get keep trying until you find a sympathetic legal adviser, there is bound to be some of them who will be aware of the blight that gambling is, no one is above reproach and if bookies are allowed get away with this it will slowly become the norm and accepted practice.

    Gambling is the biggest curse there is in modern society, it's not bad enough the odds are always stacked in the bookies favour without this carry on.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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    #33
    Andrew00
    Registered Users Posts: 2,484 ✭✭✭Andrew00


    Ladcrooks have to call up the office if you put 30 quid on a horse. Then they'll interrogate you asking a load of questions and by then the price is cut

    I don't use them at all. I found bar one racing to be sound enough never had problems there


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    #34
    Happy4all
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭Happy4all


    Rows Grower wrote: »
    Sounds like a total rip off to me, make a photocopy of your betting slip and get some legal advice. Start with the Citizens Information office which is free.

    If you don't like the legal advice you get keep trying until you find a sympathetic legal adviser, there is bound to be some of them who will be aware of the blight that gambling is, no one is above reproach and if bookies are allowed get away with this it will slowly become the norm and accepted practice.

    Gambling is the biggest curse there is in modern society, it's not bad enough the odds are always stacked in the bookies favour without this carry on.

    Bets are considered a gentleman's agreement and not legally binding. Solicitor would be a waste of time. IBAS and name and shame best approach.


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    #35
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Happy4all wrote: »
    Bets are considered a gentleman's agreement and not legally binding. Solicitor would be a waste of time. IBAS and name and shame best approach.

    That's exactly the attitude that will let these thieves get away with this carry on.

    No gentleman would do that to another.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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    #36
    HorsePunter
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭HorsePunter


    Confused Punter - You will get no satisfaction here believe me - through no fault of their own most replying here are talking through their hat.

    Firstly Bookies can and have done (lots of times), cancelled bets after they have won, they normally cancel them under their "Palbable Error" rule this can be justified when an obvious error occurs regarding odds, time, detail of bet, etc.,

    The problem you have is that they can (and do) include anything under "Palbable Error" just to stop paying out on a bet. They are scum and remember once they say that they will not be paying out, it will be an uphill struggle for you to get this decision reversed, as it means that the bookie has to sort of admit that they were trying it on in the first place.

    I feel that you not being a "LocaL" may also be a factor here, which they may see as a "he may just go away after getting his stake back and take what we say for granted".

    I am in Ireland and have been betting for 45 years plus on a daily basis and like yourself on a semi-pro level so I have heard every stroke they pull when choosing to void a bet in order to not pay out.

    In Ireland gambling disputes have no recourse to courts as far as I know. In the UK things are different, gamblers have recourse to file in the Small Claims Court. There are 2 different people that offer help and guidance and they work together often to resolve UK disputes. The first person is Paul Fairhead who is on Twitter as @boycottbetfred and his email address is betdisputeadvice at gmail dot com. The second is a chap called Brian who runs the website JusticeForPunters dot org and you can check that out.

    Remember that the two above are brilliant but within the UK is their domain, they will have had many complaints from Ireland and will be able to tell you where you stand and what you should do (if anything) next. Going forward, you are lucky that the bet won, have a major rethink of your betting strategy from here on in. All the best.


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    #37
    Always Tired
    Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭Always Tired


    Andrew00 wrote: »
    It's shocking what they get away with here.

    When I'm placing an acca for example, I deliberately pick my selections to NOT go over the €1000 returns cus I'm worried they won't pay out

    Yep, we have a local independent one here, any bet that can win over 1000 they have to ring up the head office. And often the price miraculously changes when you want to put a lump on.

    People don't realize how shockingly crooked the bookies are here. They are absolutely creaming it from addicted punters who lose every day and keep at it, the few people who win they find every which way to avoid paying out, or you go to cash a ticket and be told the price changed etc.

    Now they are using the anti money laundering laws to make people prove their income before paying out, its a joke.

    You never have a problem with these cowboys until it's time to get paid out, they'll do you out of a fiver. They know their customers are addicted so they won't lose their business and the customer has no recourse.

    Complain to IBAS, refuse the refund. Once you take it the csse will be cloaed.


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    #38
    Confused Punter
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Confused Punter


    HorsePunter wrote: »
    Confused Punter - You will get no satisfaction here believe me - through no fault of their own most replying here are talking through their hat.

    Firstly Bookies can and have done (lots of times), cancelled bets after they have won, they normally cancel them under their "Palbable Error" rule this can be justified when an obvious error occurs regarding odds, time, detail of bet, etc.,

    The problem you have is that they can (and do) include anything under "Palbable Error" just to stop paying out on a bet. They are scum and remember once they say that they will not be paying out, it will be an uphill struggle for you to get this decision reversed, as it means that the bookie has to sort of admit that they were trying it on in the first place.

    I feel that you not being a "LocaL" may also be a factor here, which they may see as a "he may just go away after getting his stake back and take what we say for granted".

    I am in Ireland and have been betting for 45 years plus on a daily basis and like yourself on a semi-pro level so I have heard every stroke they pull when choosing to void a bet in order to not pay out.

    In Ireland gambling disputes have no recourse to courts as far as I know. In the UK things are different, gamblers have recourse to file in the Small Claims Court. There are 2 different people that offer help and guidance and they work together often to resolve UK disputes. The first person is Paul Fairhead who is on Twitter as @boycottbetfred and his email address is betdisputeadvice at gmail dot com. The second is a chap called Brian who runs the website JusticeForPunters dot org and you can check that out.

    Remember that the two above are brilliant but within the UK is their domain, they will have had many complaints from Ireland and will be able to tell you where you stand and what you should do (if anything) next. Going forward, you are lucky that the bet won, have a major rethink of your betting strategy from here on in. All the best.

    Thank you well explained and accurate from what I can gather thus far. Do you mind if I pm you?


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    #39
    MEGA BRO WOLF 5000
    Registered Users Posts: 17,435 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    OP how did you put the bet on?

    Did you write it on a slip, machine, or what?

    I did mine online and when I went to check the bet I couldn't log in and the money was back in my account... it was pure scumbaggery.


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    #40
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    HorsePunter wrote: »
    Confused Punter - You will get no satisfaction here believe me - through no fault of their own most replying here are talking through their hat.

    Firstly Bookies can and have done (lots of times), cancelled bets after they have won, they normally cancel them under their "Palbable Error" rule this can be justified when an obvious error occurs regarding odds, time, detail of bet, etc.,

    The problem you have is that they can (and do) include anything under "Palbable Error" just to stop paying out on a bet. They are scum and remember once they say that they will not be paying out, it will be an uphill struggle for you to get this decision reversed, as it means that the bookie has to sort of admit that they were trying it on in the first place.

    I feel that you not being a "LocaL" may also be a factor here, which they may see as a "he may just go away after getting his stake back and take what we say for granted".

    I am in Ireland and have been betting for 45 years plus on a daily basis and like yourself on a semi-pro level so I have heard every stroke they pull when choosing to void a bet in order to not pay out.

    In Ireland gambling disputes have no recourse to courts as far as I know. In the UK things are different, gamblers have recourse to file in the Small Claims Court. There are 2 different people that offer help and guidance and they work together often to resolve UK disputes. The first person is Paul Fairhead who is on Twitter as @boycottbetfred and his email address is betdisputeadvice at gmail dot com. The second is a chap called Brian who runs the website JusticeForPunters dot org and you can check that out.

    Remember that the two above are brilliant but within the UK is their domain, they will have had many complaints from Ireland and will be able to tell you where you stand and what you should do (if anything) next. Going forward, you are lucky that the bet won, have a major rethink of your betting strategy from here on in. All the best.

    You mean well but you need to take off the blinkers.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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    #41
    Always Tired
    Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭Always Tired


    But yeah, tbh it's rare that they will ever reverse and pay you out. Best thing to do is if you want to put over a grand on a 5/6 handicap, put half on 2 different shops. It won't trigger their stupid restrictions and you are less likely to get 2 bookies both try and pull a stroke. It's ridiculous to have to do that, but...

    Bookies here hate punters who bet heavy and are selective, they love the ones who bet all the time even small amounts as the higher the volume the more likely the concept of 'gamblers ruin' comes into play


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    #42
    Confused Punter
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Confused Punter


    Always Tired wrote: »
    But yeah, tbh it's rare that they will ever reverse and pay you out. Best thing to do is if you want to put over a grand on a 5/6 handicap, put half on 2 different shops. It won't trigger their stupid restrictions and you are less likely to get 2 bookies both try and pull a stroke. It's ridiculous to have to do that, but...

    Bookies here hate punters who bet heavy and are selective, they love the ones who bet all the time even small amounts as the higher the volume the more likely the concept of 'gamblers ruin' comes into play

    Funny you say that, I was a shellbourne dogs a few weeks ago on a Tuesday night. Only 1 bookmaker was fielding odds on the races plus the tote. Tried to place a €200 bet on a dog and he would only accept a €50 bet at evens. Couldn't even place bets on the tote as only a few hundred in each pool so any bet over €50 would destroy the tote pool.


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    #43
    Happy4all
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭Happy4all


    I thinks the bookie is acting unfairly, but I don't know any bookies where a cashier would take in a bet of that size without getting clearance.

    Did they just count the cash and not bat an eyelid?


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    #44
    starbaby2003
    Registered Users Posts: 664 ✭✭✭starbaby2003


    I worked in a bookies and have seen this more than once. They were all bets that were deemed either suspicious, lots of amounts for an obscure horse across different shops or a bet taken in error from a ‘professional’ gambler. We had specific people we could not accept a bet from prior to getting head office approval. If this was missed for example by new staff or them using another person to place the bet, it was cancelled. The no money is because they are going over your betting history. Not suggesting you are involved in anything but I had to say exactly that when the guards might be interested in where so ones money is from. Obviously not what we were told but you’d know.


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    #45
    HorsePunter
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭HorsePunter


    Rows Grower you need to stop talking about stuff you know nothing about.

    The judge said that he had to rely on the Gaming and Lottery Act 1956 which states that “no action shall lie for the recovery of any money or thing which is alleged to be won.”

    “If you happen to be too lucky while placing a bet or gambling, the person can simply say ‘no you’re not entitled to the money’. That is simply the law in Ireland,” the judge said.

    Confused Punter feel free to PM me if you wish to do so


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    #46
    callaway92
    Registered Users Posts: 14,356 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    HorsePunter wrote: »
    Going forward, you are lucky that the bet won, have a major rethink of your betting strategy from here on in. All the best.

    Sorry - what is this supposed to mean?

    Lucky the bet won, major rethink etc?

    How do you know what % €1800 is of the OPs bankroll?? This could’ve been a low bet for him


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    #47
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    HorsePunter wrote: »
    Rows Grower you need to stop talking about stuff you know nothing about.

    The judge said that he had to rely on the Gaming and Lottery Act 1956 which states that “no action shall lie for the recovery of any money or thing which is alleged to be won.”

    “If you happen to be too lucky while placing a bet or gambling, the person can simply say ‘no you’re not entitled to the money’. That is simply the law in Ireland,” the judge said.

    Confused Punter feel free to PM me if you wish to do so

    Okay, sorry about that HorsePunter.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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    #48
    SonOfGoat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭SonOfGoat


    I don't believe any of this to be honest. I think the OP is just looking to draw people out and it's working.

    If that bet was placed it would be payed out, simple as that.


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    #49
    Always Tired
    Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭Always Tired


    Helpneeded86 wrote: »
    They will need to have some sort of terms and conditions to back up the cancellation. I would request that.

    File an internal complaint they will have a procedure.

    Once that fails then go to IBAS.

    I would be surprised if we are not missing some details here tbh.

    Prepare to be surprised. You obviously haven't dealt with a bookie much, what other details are you imagining?


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    #50
    Always Tired
    Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭Always Tired


    SonOfGoat wrote: »
    I don't believe any of this to be honest. I think the OP is just looking to draw people out and it's working.

    If that bet was placed it would be payed out, simple as that.

    Ha! Another naive post. They do this all the time and get away wirh it.


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    #51
    SonOfGoat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭SonOfGoat


    Always Tired wrote: »
    Ha! Another naive post. They do this all the time and get away wirh it.

    Well I've never heard of it before. I back mostly with powers if betting via bricks and mortar. I can have 500 on a horse at the price available and anything over that is SP. Therefor, I usually split it into multiples of 500 if I want the price. There have been times I just placed the bet in one shop. They'd ring up head office and inquire and accecpt or reject. And if it won, they would pay out 100% of the time. Bookies don't rip people off by not paying out, they rip people off through their prices, the 'over-round' to be exact.


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    #52
    Wilfuler.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 183 ✭✭Wilfuler.


    SonOfGoat wrote: »
    Well I've never heard of it before. I back mostly with powers if betting via bricks and mortar. I can have 500 on a horse at the price available and anything over that is SP. Therefor, I usually split it into multiples of 500 if I want the price. There have been times I just placed the bet in one shop. They'd ring up head office and inquire and accecpt or reject. And if it won, they would pay out 100% of the time. Bookies don't rip people off by not paying out, they rip people off through their prices, the 'over-round' to be exact.
    You obviously don't win much if they're taking your bets like that


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    #53
    SonOfGoat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭SonOfGoat


    Wilfuler. wrote: »
    You obviously don't win much if they're taking your bets like that

    Stop talking nonsense, it shows how low your IQ is.


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    #54
    Wilfuler.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 183 ✭✭Wilfuler.


    SonOfGoat wrote: »
    Stop talking nonsense, it shows how low your IQ is.

    Them taking your bets shows how low your IQ is


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    #55
    Confused Punter
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Confused Punter


    SonOfGoat wrote: »
    Well I've never heard of it before. I back mostly with powers if betting via bricks and mortar. I can have 500 on a horse at the price available and anything over that is SP. Therefor, I usually split it into multiples of 500 if I want the price. There have been times I just placed the bet in one shop. They'd ring up head office and inquire and accecpt or reject. And if it won, they would pay out 100% of the time. Bookies don't rip people off by not paying out, they rip people off through their prices, the 'over-round' to be exact.

    I'll even go further, they take your bets because you lose more than win. Therefor you are a profitable account to have. Selective sports punters who take advantage of over odds and bet selectively often have issues with bets placed or lower amount bets placed. This is the first time I have had one cancelled though.
    And pp wouldn't allow you to split into multiples of €500 and maintain the same price, each bet of €500 would trigger a review of current market price and each time your odds would lower.
    I asked a sensible question hoping to receive a sensible answer from punters who bet larger amounts and have had issues like this before. If I wanted the weekend punter or €1 euro e/w punter I would have asked you.
    And they haven't ripped me off as you say, they have cancelled the bet saying it was taken in error by the operator. And why they do this is they don't like punters who make money they seek to only service the mugs.


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    #56
    Wilfuler.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 183 ✭✭Wilfuler.


    ^^Bookies task is to hoover up money from casual gamblers addicts and mugs

    Anyone out to make money becomes a target


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    #57
    marvin80
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭marvin80


    Wilfuler. wrote: »
    You obviously don't win much if they're taking your bets like that

    Have a look at some of his tips on the Horse Racing thread and you'll see he has a terrible record!


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    #58
    marvin80
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭marvin80


    Happy4all wrote: »
    Bets are considered a gentleman's agreement and not legally binding. Solicitor would be a waste of time. IBAS and name and shame best approach.

    I've also heard there not legally binding - naming and shaming on social media might be your best bet.


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    #59
    coolshannagh28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭coolshannagh28


    My nephew worked for a large bookie in their HQ for a time, his job was tracking and closing profitable accounts , mainly large single football betting FWIW.


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    #60
    Ashleigh1986
    Registered Users Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Ashleigh1986


    The " mistake " here is that the employee didn't obviously contact head office to see could he accept the " large bet " in the first place.
    If he had head office would have looked at the CCTV camera at the premises to see do they recognise you before seeing would they accept that amount.
    It's obviously a mistake their employee made and therefore they should pay out and honour the bet .
    Only they know how much they had taken in on that market for that match .


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    #61
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    marvin80 wrote: »
    I've also heard there not legally binding - naming and shaming on social media might be your best bet.

    https://youtu.be/Mr7-Whke7Xs?t=46

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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