Bet not paid out and cancelled

Confused Punter

Firstly may I say I am new to this country and English is my first language.

I am somewhat of a semi pro sports punter, yesterday I placed a wager with a well known national bookmaker. The bet was €1800 on Leinster -4 handicap at odds of 5/6 for a total return of €3300. Fast forward today I go into shop to collect and have been told the bet was taken in error and should not have been placed furthermore my bet was now null and void and the bet cancelled. Then the icing on the cake was they don't have the money to refund my bet currently and I would have to wait a few days to be paid.

Well so many things wrong with this, no idea where to start. The bet was taken and placed is my 1st issue, second issue is they don't have the funds to even refund my bet.

Now I have been informed I have no legal recourse in this country as bets are not deemed contracts here. I mean seriously WTF!!!!!

I have been told I can complain to IBAS which is funded by the bookmakers themselves so I don't see how this is a fair outcome as obviously they will find in favour of the company financially supporting them.

Can I contact the Gardi to report a theft? or Can i take legal action for financial theft through deception?

tipptom

Confused Punter wrote: »

Firstly may I say I am new to this country and English is my first language.

I am somewhat of a semi pro sports punter, yesterday I placed a wager with a well known national bookmaker. The bet was €1800 on Leincester -4 handicap at odds of 5/6 for a total return of €3300. Fast forward today I go into shop to collect and have been told the bet was taken in error and should not have been placed furthermore my bet was now null and void and the bet cancelled. Then the icing on the cake was they don't have the money to refund my bet currently and I would have to wait a few days to be paid.

Well so many things wrong with this, no idea where to start. The bet was taken and placed is my 1st issue, second issue is they don't have the funds to even refund my bet.

Now I have been informed I have no legal recourse in this country as bets are not deemed contracts here. I mean seriously WTF!!!!!

I have been told I can complain to IBAS which is funded by the bookmakers themselves so I don't see how this is a fair outcome as obviously they will find in favour of the company financially supporting them.

Can I contact the Gardi to report a theft? or Can i take legal action for financial theft through deception?

Have they given a reason on what was the problem with the bet that they said it should have been refused in the first place?

Confused Punter

tipptom wrote: »

Have they given a reason on what was the problem with the bet that they said it should have been refused in the first place?

No they didn't, but the guy behind the counter says the bet was probably too big. He was a different guy than yesterday, and if so why was the bet taken and my cash pocketed into there tills.

Esse85

Contact the guards and they'll laugh at you, and rightly so.

Have you tried contacting the Head office via social media or email?

Confused Punter

Esse85 wrote: »

Contact the guards and they'll laugh at you, and rightly so.

Have you tried contacting the Head office via social media or email?

Yes their customer care centre was the one's telling me the bet should have never been taken. Confused as to why boommakers seem to be unregulated in this country.

tipptom

Confused Punter wrote: »

No they didn't, but the guy behind the counter says the bet was probably too big. He was a different guy than yesterday, and if so why was the bet taken and my cash pocketed into there tills.

You need to find out from their office why they think the bet was refused in the first place as under the circumstancesc that the shop gave you is no reason not to pay out on a winning bet,that should be with their employee and their shop staff.

Only option now is to harass head office and social media the sh&t out of them and ibas as a last resort.

If Leinster was beaten your 1800 would be down the swanee

Johnny Sausage

The guards hahahahahaha

Ring Joe Duffy while you are at it

Confused Punter

tipptom wrote: »

You need to find out from their office why they think the bet was refused in the first place as under the circumstancesc that the shop gave you is no reason not to pay out on a winning bet,that should be with their employee and their shop staff.

Only option now is to harass head office and social media the sh&t out of them and ibas as a last resort.

If Leinster was beaten your 1800 would be down the swanee

Explanation given was bet was too large and shouldn't been accepted, when I questioned it was they said they take no responsibility for the actions of staff if they were made in error and are not liable for such mistakes made by staff. To which I almost fell over laughing.

Not sure why people think reporting the theft of a large sum of money is funny and shouldn't be reported to the Gardi. They haven't even returned the original stake, that is blatant theft.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Wonder what would of happened had it lost

meathstevie

Confused Punter wrote: »

Explanation given was bet was too large and shouldn't been accepted, when I questioned it was they said they take no responsibility for the actions of staff if they were made in error and are not liable for such mistakes made by staff. To which I almost fell over laughing.

Not sure why people think reporting the theft of a large sum of money is funny and shouldn't be reported to the Gardi. They haven't even returned the original stake, that is blatant theft.

Well first of all they are liable for the actions of their staff, just like a garage would be liable if one of their employee mechanics buggers up your car.

It is not up to you to have consideration for their internal procedures and instructions to staff. If what you say is correct the bottom line is that they accepted the wager and now appear to be reneging on it which is very dishonourable to say the least.

And a bookie shop that hasn’t got two grand on the premises during one of the busiest weekends of Premiership football and Christmas festival horse racing ? Don’t make me laugh.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

The kicker here is that if you had a losing bet they would have taken your money.

I had this issue before with an online bet I put on, I opened a new account and my first bet was substantial and it won, should have been a €1900 payout but instead my money was refunded and my account closed and I’d no recourse of action at all.

Nowso

some firms i have seen have payout limits on each catergory of sport in the t/cs - see if you can source that for thepro 16 or whatever its called these days

paddys max payput on rugby union p[ro 12 is 250,000 on match handicaps ??

https://www.paddypower.com/aboutUs/Betting.Rules/

boyles 100,000

https://www.boylesports.com/content/html/sports/rulebook.html

Confused Punter

meathstevie wrote: »

Well first of all they are liable for the actions of their staff, just like a garage would be liable if one of their employee mechanics buggers up your car.

It is not up to you to have consideration for their internal procedures and instructions to staff. If what you say is correct the bottom line is that they accepted the wager and now appear to be reneging on it which is very dishonourable to say the least.

And a bookie shop that hasn’t got two grand on the premises during one of the busiest weekends of Premiership football and Christmas festival horse racing ? Don’t make me laugh.

My point exactly, would would the shop not have enough money to even refund the original bet although I do stress I would like the original bet paid out

Hunky Monster wrote: »

The kicker here is that if you had a losing bet they would have taken your money.

I had this issue before with an online bet I put on, I opened a new account and my first bet was substantial and it won, should have been a €1900 payout but instead my money was refunded and my account closed and I’d no recourse of action at all.

Again which is why I ask apart from IBAS which seem to be funded by the bookmakers what course of action can I take. I'm confused as to why a wager in this country is not deemed a contract between two parties and enforceable.

Wilfuler.

It's fraud basically

You lose you lose

You win you get refunded

Andrew00

It's shocking what they get away with here.

When I'm placing an acca for example, I deliberately pick my selections to NOT go over the €1000 returns cus I'm worried they won't pay out

lawred2

Serious gambler - 1800 quid on a 4 goal handicap market!

Maybe cancelled on gambling awareness reasons...

But your bet came in, they should have paid. But bookmaking is a scumbag's business really.

Collie D

lawred2 wrote: »

Serious gambler - 1800 quid on a 4 goal handicap market!

Maybe cancelled on gambling awareness reasons...

Presumably it’s a 4 point handicap on Leinster rugby

Confused Punter

lawred2 wrote: »

Serious gambler - 1800 quid on a 4 goal handicap market!

Maybe cancelled on gambling awareness reasons...

Not sure what that means, I considered -4 Leinster a gift against Munster. Granted game was closer than I would have liked but they still got up.

lawred2

Collie D wrote: »

Presumably it’s a 4 point handicap on Leinster rugby

Lol - makes way more sense

I saw Leicester.

Confused Punter

lawred2 wrote: »

Lol - makes way more sense

I saw Leicester.

Yes sorry LOL it was the Leinster vs Munster game sorry for the confusion and my bad spelling.

Helpneeded86

They will need to have some sort of terms and conditions to back up the cancellation. I would request that.

File an internal complaint they will have a procedure.

Once that fails then go to IBAS.

I would be surprised if we are not missing some details here tbh.

Nowso

advice i would give going forward - spread it about a bit if u can if in dublin do a few shops

your not rob howley are you lol ?

Confused Punter

Helpneeded86 wrote: »

They will need to have some sort of terms and conditions to back up the cancellation. I would request that.

File an internal complaint they will have a procedure.

Once that fails then go to IBAS.

I would be surprised if we are not missing some details here tbh.

Not missing anything, bet was placed. Now they are saying the bet was too large to accept and the bet is null and void. They are going to refund the money of the original bet but didn't have enough apparently currently and asked me to return on Monday or Tuesday to receive the refund in full.

Confused Punter

Nowso wrote: »

advice i would give going forward - spread it about a bit if u can if in dublin do a few shops

your not rob howley are you lol ?

Not sure who that is. But yes as another poster mentioned I may have to place a few smaller bets and returns in a few shops to avoid this going forward. I'm still curious as to why bookmakers aren't regulated by anyone though.

spurshero

Put the bet up
On twitter etc . Highlight it as much as possible . Something doesn’t sound right here . I doubt this bet was done in pp spoils or lads was it ?

Nowso

Confused Punter wrote: »

Not sure who that is. But yes as another poster mentioned I may have to place a few smaller bets and returns in a few shops to avoid this going forward. I'm still curious as to why bookmakers aren't regulated by anyone though.

you bet 1800 on rugby union but you dont know who Rob Howley is ? lol

Confused Punter

Nowso wrote: »

you bet 1800 on rugby union but you dont know who Rob Howley is ? lol

I#m a kiwi and welsh coaches dont make the news much lol

Happy4all

spurshero wrote: »

Put the bet up
On twitter etc . Highlight it as much as possible . Something doesn’t sound right here . I doubt this bet was done in pp spoils or lads was it ?

he said a major shop, so all points to Powers or Boyles. Lads panick at anything over €50

clevtrev

was this a one shop bookmaker or one of the big boys?

Wilfuler.

Has anyone ever had a losing bet cancelled and got refunded?

Confused Punter

I'll name bookmaker tomorrow or Tuesday after i receive my initial outlay back, then try and work out what I can do going forward.

Rows Grower

Confused Punter wrote: »

I'll name bookmaker tomorrow or Tuesday after i receive my initial outlay back, then try and work out what I can do going forward.

Sounds like a total rip off to me, make a photocopy of your betting slip and get some legal advice. Start with the Citizens Information office which is free.

If you don't like the legal advice you get keep trying until you find a sympathetic legal adviser, there is bound to be some of them who will be aware of the blight that gambling is, no one is above reproach and if bookies are allowed get away with this it will slowly become the norm and accepted practice.

Gambling is the biggest curse there is in modern society, it's not bad enough the odds are always stacked in the bookies favour without this carry on.

Andrew00

Ladcrooks have to call up the office if you put 30 quid on a horse. Then they'll interrogate you asking a load of questions and by then the price is cut

I don't use them at all. I found bar one racing to be sound enough never had problems there

Happy4all

Rows Grower wrote: »

Sounds like a total rip off to me, make a photocopy of your betting slip and get some legal advice. Start with the Citizens Information office which is free.

If you don't like the legal advice you get keep trying until you find a sympathetic legal adviser, there is bound to be some of them who will be aware of the blight that gambling is, no one is above reproach and if bookies are allowed get away with this it will slowly become the norm and accepted practice.

Gambling is the biggest curse there is in modern society, it's not bad enough the odds are always stacked in the bookies favour without this carry on.

Bets are considered a gentleman's agreement and not legally binding. Solicitor would be a waste of time. IBAS and name and shame best approach.

Rows Grower

Happy4all wrote: »

Bets are considered a gentleman's agreement and not legally binding. Solicitor would be a waste of time. IBAS and name and shame best approach.

That's exactly the attitude that will let these thieves get away with this carry on.

No gentleman would do that to another.

HorsePunter

Confused Punter - You will get no satisfaction here believe me - through no fault of their own most replying here are talking through their hat.

Firstly Bookies can and have done (lots of times), cancelled bets after they have won, they normally cancel them under their "Palbable Error" rule this can be justified when an obvious error occurs regarding odds, time, detail of bet, etc.,

The problem you have is that they can (and do) include anything under "Palbable Error" just to stop paying out on a bet. They are scum and remember once they say that they will not be paying out, it will be an uphill struggle for you to get this decision reversed, as it means that the bookie has to sort of admit that they were trying it on in the first place.

I feel that you not being a "LocaL" may also be a factor here, which they may see as a "he may just go away after getting his stake back and take what we say for granted".

I am in Ireland and have been betting for 45 years plus on a daily basis and like yourself on a semi-pro level so I have heard every stroke they pull when choosing to void a bet in order to not pay out.

In Ireland gambling disputes have no recourse to courts as far as I know. In the UK things are different, gamblers have recourse to file in the Small Claims Court. There are 2 different people that offer help and guidance and they work together often to resolve UK disputes. The first person is Paul Fairhead who is on Twitter as @boycottbetfred and his email address is betdisputeadvice at gmail dot com. The second is a chap called Brian who runs the website JusticeForPunters dot org and you can check that out.

Remember that the two above are brilliant but within the UK is their domain, they will have had many complaints from Ireland and will be able to tell you where you stand and what you should do (if anything) next. Going forward, you are lucky that the bet won, have a major rethink of your betting strategy from here on in. All the best.

Always Tired

Andrew00 wrote: »

It's shocking what they get away with here.

When I'm placing an acca for example, I deliberately pick my selections to NOT go over the €1000 returns cus I'm worried they won't pay out

Yep, we have a local independent one here, any bet that can win over 1000 they have to ring up the head office. And often the price miraculously changes when you want to put a lump on.

People don't realize how shockingly crooked the bookies are here. They are absolutely creaming it from addicted punters who lose every day and keep at it, the few people who win they find every which way to avoid paying out, or you go to cash a ticket and be told the price changed etc.

Now they are using the anti money laundering laws to make people prove their income before paying out, its a joke.

You never have a problem with these cowboys until it's time to get paid out, they'll do you out of a fiver. They know their customers are addicted so they won't lose their business and the customer has no recourse.

Complain to IBAS, refuse the refund. Once you take it the csse will be cloaed.

Confused Punter

HorsePunter wrote: »

Confused Punter - You will get no satisfaction here believe me - through no fault of their own most replying here are talking through their hat.

Firstly Bookies can and have done (lots of times), cancelled bets after they have won, they normally cancel them under their "Palbable Error" rule this can be justified when an obvious error occurs regarding odds, time, detail of bet, etc.,

The problem you have is that they can (and do) include anything under "Palbable Error" just to stop paying out on a bet. They are scum and remember once they say that they will not be paying out, it will be an uphill struggle for you to get this decision reversed, as it means that the bookie has to sort of admit that they were trying it on in the first place.

I feel that you not being a "LocaL" may also be a factor here, which they may see as a "he may just go away after getting his stake back and take what we say for granted".

I am in Ireland and have been betting for 45 years plus on a daily basis and like yourself on a semi-pro level so I have heard every stroke they pull when choosing to void a bet in order to not pay out.

In Ireland gambling disputes have no recourse to courts as far as I know. In the UK things are different, gamblers have recourse to file in the Small Claims Court. There are 2 different people that offer help and guidance and they work together often to resolve UK disputes. The first person is Paul Fairhead who is on Twitter as @boycottbetfred and his email address is betdisputeadvice at gmail dot com. The second is a chap called Brian who runs the website JusticeForPunters dot org and you can check that out.

Remember that the two above are brilliant but within the UK is their domain, they will have had many complaints from Ireland and will be able to tell you where you stand and what you should do (if anything) next. Going forward, you are lucky that the bet won, have a major rethink of your betting strategy from here on in. All the best.

Thank you well explained and accurate from what I can gather thus far. Do you mind if I pm you?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

OP how did you put the bet on?

Did you write it on a slip, machine, or what?

I did mine online and when I went to check the bet I couldn't log in and the money was back in my account... it was pure scumbaggery.

Rows Grower

HorsePunter wrote: »

Confused Punter - You will get no satisfaction here believe me - through no fault of their own most replying here are talking through their hat.

Firstly Bookies can and have done (lots of times), cancelled bets after they have won, they normally cancel them under their "Palbable Error" rule this can be justified when an obvious error occurs regarding odds, time, detail of bet, etc.,

The problem you have is that they can (and do) include anything under "Palbable Error" just to stop paying out on a bet. They are scum and remember once they say that they will not be paying out, it will be an uphill struggle for you to get this decision reversed, as it means that the bookie has to sort of admit that they were trying it on in the first place.

I feel that you not being a "LocaL" may also be a factor here, which they may see as a "he may just go away after getting his stake back and take what we say for granted".

I am in Ireland and have been betting for 45 years plus on a daily basis and like yourself on a semi-pro level so I have heard every stroke they pull when choosing to void a bet in order to not pay out.

In Ireland gambling disputes have no recourse to courts as far as I know. In the UK things are different, gamblers have recourse to file in the Small Claims Court. There are 2 different people that offer help and guidance and they work together often to resolve UK disputes. The first person is Paul Fairhead who is on Twitter as @boycottbetfred and his email address is betdisputeadvice at gmail dot com. The second is a chap called Brian who runs the website JusticeForPunters dot org and you can check that out.

Remember that the two above are brilliant but within the UK is their domain, they will have had many complaints from Ireland and will be able to tell you where you stand and what you should do (if anything) next. Going forward, you are lucky that the bet won, have a major rethink of your betting strategy from here on in. All the best.

You mean well but you need to take off the blinkers.

Always Tired

But yeah, tbh it's rare that they will ever reverse and pay you out. Best thing to do is if you want to put over a grand on a 5/6 handicap, put half on 2 different shops. It won't trigger their stupid restrictions and you are less likely to get 2 bookies both try and pull a stroke. It's ridiculous to have to do that, but...

Bookies here hate punters who bet heavy and are selective, they love the ones who bet all the time even small amounts as the higher the volume the more likely the concept of 'gamblers ruin' comes into play

Confused Punter

Always Tired wrote: »

But yeah, tbh it's rare that they will ever reverse and pay you out. Best thing to do is if you want to put over a grand on a 5/6 handicap, put half on 2 different shops. It won't trigger their stupid restrictions and you are less likely to get 2 bookies both try and pull a stroke. It's ridiculous to have to do that, but...

Bookies here hate punters who bet heavy and are selective, they love the ones who bet all the time even small amounts as the higher the volume the more likely the concept of 'gamblers ruin' comes into play

Funny you say that, I was a shellbourne dogs a few weeks ago on a Tuesday night. Only 1 bookmaker was fielding odds on the races plus the tote. Tried to place a €200 bet on a dog and he would only accept a €50 bet at evens. Couldn't even place bets on the tote as only a few hundred in each pool so any bet over €50 would destroy the tote pool.

Happy4all

I thinks the bookie is acting unfairly, but I don't know any bookies where a cashier would take in a bet of that size without getting clearance.

Did they just count the cash and not bat an eyelid?

starbaby2003

I worked in a bookies and have seen this more than once. They were all bets that were deemed either suspicious, lots of amounts for an obscure horse across different shops or a bet taken in error from a ‘professional’ gambler. We had specific people we could not accept a bet from prior to getting head office approval. If this was missed for example by new staff or them using another person to place the bet, it was cancelled. The no money is because they are going over your betting history. Not suggesting you are involved in anything but I had to say exactly that when the guards might be interested in where so ones money is from. Obviously not what we were told but you’d know.

HorsePunter

Rows Grower you need to stop talking about stuff you know nothing about.

The judge said that he had to rely on the Gaming and Lottery Act 1956 which states that “no action shall lie for the recovery of any money or thing which is alleged to be won.”

“If you happen to be too lucky while placing a bet or gambling, the person can simply say ‘no you’re not entitled to the money’. That is simply the law in Ireland,” the judge said.

Confused Punter feel free to PM me if you wish to do so

callaway92

HorsePunter wrote: »

Going forward, you are lucky that the bet won, have a major rethink of your betting strategy from here on in. All the best.

Sorry - what is this supposed to mean?

Lucky the bet won, major rethink etc?

How do you know what % €1800 is of the OPs bankroll?? This could’ve been a low bet for him

Rows Grower

HorsePunter wrote: »

Rows Grower you need to stop talking about stuff you know nothing about.

The judge said that he had to rely on the Gaming and Lottery Act 1956 which states that “no action shall lie for the recovery of any money or thing which is alleged to be won.”

“If you happen to be too lucky while placing a bet or gambling, the person can simply say ‘no you’re not entitled to the money’. That is simply the law in Ireland,” the judge said.

Confused Punter feel free to PM me if you wish to do so

Okay, sorry about that HorsePunter.

SonOfGoat

I don't believe any of this to be honest. I think the OP is just looking to draw people out and it's working.

If that bet was placed it would be payed out, simple as that.

Always Tired

Helpneeded86 wrote: »

They will need to have some sort of terms and conditions to back up the cancellation. I would request that.

File an internal complaint they will have a procedure.

Once that fails then go to IBAS.

I would be surprised if we are not missing some details here tbh.

Prepare to be surprised. You obviously haven't dealt with a bookie much, what other details are you imagining?

Always Tired

SonOfGoat wrote: »

I don't believe any of this to be honest. I think the OP is just looking to draw people out and it's working.

If that bet was placed it would be payed out, simple as that.

Ha! Another naive post. They do this all the time and get away wirh it.

SonOfGoat

Always Tired wrote: »

Ha! Another naive post. They do this all the time and get away wirh it.

Well I've never heard of it before. I back mostly with powers if betting via bricks and mortar. I can have 500 on a horse at the price available and anything over that is SP. Therefor, I usually split it into multiples of 500 if I want the price. There have been times I just placed the bet in one shop. They'd ring up head office and inquire and accecpt or reject. And if it won, they would pay out 100% of the time. Bookies don't rip people off by not paying out, they rip people off through their prices, the 'over-round' to be exact.