What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

briany · 17-06-2020 5:26pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

Implicit in the word multicultural is the notion that people largely won't mix and form a new cohesive cultural body but will rather remain seperate and retain their own cultures. At least one culture (presumably the native one) will always be dominant meaning that the other cultures must be "minority" cultures. Unless your minority culture is extremely strong in the areas like education and commerce it is likely that it will suffer to some degree of inequality of outcome which breeds discontent and resentment of the dominant culture.

Doomed to fail? Or is this simply the way it is and our bar for successful multiculturalism is set too high?

All multiculturalism says to me is that there are different cultures in a shared space. Whether that's a perpetual situation is not really alluded to by the word itself. In my opinion, multiculturalism should be a waypoint rather than a destination. The destination ought to be that different cultures in a shared space can eventually arrive at a shared set of values and cultural practices, broadly agreeable to all.

If, on the other hand, you merely have different cultures in the same space, be it a city or a country, and this is a situation that is ongoing and seen as an end, then you really run the risk of increased friction and a breakdown of social cohesion if and when a recession happens and the pie shrinks. At this point, people think of themselves and theirs, and the first people they turn on is those seen as foreign, especially in their behaviour. I think we've seen quite a bit of this emerging out of the period 2008-2014 with the upsurge in the Alt-Right and Nationalism, not that I'm saying those two things are equivalent by any means.

suicide_circus · 17-06-2020 5:46pm

briany wrote: »

All multiculturalism says to me is that there are different cultures in a shared space. Whether that's a perpetual situation is not really alluded to by the word itself. In my opinion, multiculturalism should be a waypoint rather than a destination. The destination ought to be that different cultures in a shared space can eventually arrive at a shared set of values and cultural practices, broadly agreeable to all.

But we're not moving in that direction. It seems to me that people are far more aware of their cultural differences now than they were 15 years ago. Identity politics, from the right and the left (mainly left) and victimhood as a form of socio-political currency are pushing this trend. MLK would be spat on today with his judging people on the content of their character. Then again, taking up Wibbs' point, Multiculturalism only seems like good sauce for western countries, there is something I don't quite trust about the impetus behind it.

I Am Nobody · 17-06-2020 5:55pm

FVP3 wrote: »

No he means literally. Literally as fauna I think. Animals.

But that turns out to be a myth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flora_and_Fauna_Act

Thanks for that.

maestroamado · 17-06-2020 5:58pm

Rodin wrote: »

Should have an immigration system like Australia where only essential skils are brought in under a credit system

All asylum seeker applications should be sorted within weeks. If they're not eligible send them home

Nobody who is here only 5 years should get a passport.

I was talking to a guy who was block-laying contractor last week and i asked how work was doing.
He said he could not get people to work, especially labourers.

So i think what you may mean by essential skills are unskilled people.
This is the reason for people coming here, doing the work Irish were famous for world over and we could go anywhere.
Now we do not want to do and i welcome people who are prepared to roll there sleeves up and earn a living like Irish people did for generations.
I do have a problem with people getting benefit for say first 5 years.
If this is made clear day one they may decide not to come so they have a choice...

briany · 17-06-2020 6:23pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

But we're not moving in that direction. It seems to me that people are far more aware of their cultural differences now than they were 15 years ago. Identity politics, from the right and the left (mainly left) and victimhood as a form of socio-political currency are pushing this trend. MLK would be spat on today with his judging people on the content of their character. Then again, taking up Wibbs' point, Multiculturalism only seems like good sauce for western countries, there is something I don't quite trust about the impetus behind it.

I'd say we are moving in that direction, although not at a speed nearly fast enough that we'd see it concluded in a generation. If you take the USA as the prime example of a multicultural society, 100 years ago, white and black people could barely even be seen together, and today they fraternise openly all across that country, and there been huge cultural cross-contamination in music, fashion, food, comedy etc. The gap that once yawned so wide, there, has been massively closed.

As for MLK, I think his being spat on is a slight bit of hyperbole. I mean, I don't doubt that there'd be someone who might do that, but I suspect they'd be just a Twitter fanatic type and I don't believe those people are anything like a majority. The rest of the people - the level-headed - would shake his hand.

tayto lover · 17-06-2020 6:26pm

RyanthePirate wrote: »

I would like to see a Boards.ie Consensus.

Economists agree that immigration has a net positive on the economy and this immigration is surely a wonderful thing for the county.

Agree/Disagree?

Ask the people of Balbriggan how it’s working for them.

I Am Nobody · 17-06-2020 6:28pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Ask the people of Balbriggan how it’s working for them.

Where I live,I am still waiting for it.Any day now I''m sure of it.

suicide_circus · 17-06-2020 6:31pm

briany wrote: »

I'd say we are moving in that direction, although not at a speed nearly fast enough that we'd see it concluded in a generation. If you take the USA as the prime example of a multicultural society, 100 years ago, white and black people could barely even be seen together, and today they fraternise openly all across that country, and there been huge cultural cross-contamination in music, fashion, food, comedy etc. The gap that once yawned so wide, there, has been massively closed.

As for MLK, I think his being spat on is a slight bit of hyperbole. I mean, I don't doubt that there'd be someone who might do that, but I suspect they'd be just a Twitter fanatic type and I don't believe those people are anything like a majority. The rest of the people - the level-headed - would shake his hand.

I hope youre right. As for Twitter Fanatics, they have acquired unbelievable levels of influence unfortunately.

JPCN1 · 17-06-2020 6:32pm

Change like peace should come dropping slow. We have 17% foreign born which to my mind is a great deal in a short space of time.

No harm in pausing and reflecting at this stage especially when the next few years are likely to be difficult.

The asylum process needs to be shortened considerably. It's become a little industry itself.

2u2me · 17-06-2020 6:52pm

US2 wrote: »

Is there one example in the history of the planet where different cultures have mixed successfully, think about it.

It depends what you mean by mix. When cultures integrate into their society (they adopt some norms of the society, society adops some norms from them) it seems to work exquisitely well.

In fact we can trace many of our cultural habits all the way back through history from various civilizations, every country is the same.

What in fact we see though is those that are pushing the multiculturalism line are also the ones crying about cultural appropriation. It seems they would prefer a society that bunchs people together in groups and retains the culture of the country from which they came. That's what the racists want as well.

Cultural appropriation should be celebrated; that we like that culture so much that we emulate it. We should not be afraid to criticize other cultures either. For example head-hunting culture; I don't want that anywhere near where I live.

So if you mean by multiculturalism that you want lots of cultures living here in their separate groups; yes it seems to be going successfully so far.

Fred Cryton · 17-06-2020 7:05pm

RyanthePirate wrote: »

I would like to see a Boards.ie Consensus.

Economists agree that immigration has a net positive on the economy and this immigration is surely a wonderful thing for the county.

Agree/Disagree?

LEGAL Immigration has a massive net positive effect on the economy.

ILLEGAL immigration is a massive drain on the economy.

Wibbs · 17-06-2020 7:22pm

2u2me wrote: »

In fact we can trace many of our cultural habits all the way back through history from various civilizations.

Who were almost always invaders. That part seems to be glossed over. The very language we're typing this in is because of invasion and colonisation. Now it's a positive today, but ask many generations of Irish how positive it was in the past. When cultures mix there is nearly always conflict. Look around at the flashpoints today. America has been multicultural by the very nature of it as a country and yet... Brazil is a melting pot, but who are clustered at the top and who are clustered at the bottom. Two thirds of the inhabitants of favelas are Black or mixed. And both of them are founded on invasion and colonisation.

It depends what you mean by mix. When cultures integrate into their society (they adopt some norms of the society, society adops some norms from them) it seems to work exquisitely well.

Name an example. If it works so exquisitely it should be a doddle to name a long list of them throughout history. The problem is that in damned near every single conflict in history it was between cultures and ethnic groups. Them V Us is writ large in our history and it seems in our very nature.

17-06-2020 7:31pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Who were almost always invaders. That part seems to be glossed over. The very language we're typing this in is because of invasion and colonisation. Now it's a positive today, but ask many generations of Irish how positive it was in the past. When cultures mix there is nearly always conflict. Look around at the flashpoints today. America has been multicultural by the very nature of it as a country and yet... Brazil is a melting pot, but who are clustered at the top and who are clustered at the bottom. Two thirds of the inhabitants of favelas are Black or mixed. And both of them are founded on invasion and colonisation.

Name an example. If it works so exquisitely it should be a doddle to name a long list of them throughout history. The problem is that in damned near every single conflict in history it was between cultures and ethnic groups. Them V Us is writ large in our history and it seems in our very nature.

I always taught the mix of culture in oz/nz or paficic islands was a good fit......no crowd,trying to lord it over another......with a strong government,but a leeway/commonsense application of laws

Though it also leaves many abbos behind too,but thats a similar issue,we have here with travellers....(suspect that modern capitalism isnt the be-all and end all either).....but they have some good/commonsense protections under employment laws to shoulder cultural issue like walkabout too

Wibbs · 17-06-2020 7:33pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Tbf anyone that geos againest grain on boards get shut down/banned,always been that way

.....a few years ago majority posts here would been banned,now its gone to other way around,just the way of the world i guess

I've long held this view towards the modern multicultural politic and wasn't banned. There's a few other areas where I'd go "against the grain" too.

EDIT: The fact you feel.need to take issue with my account length vs content of my posting is another issue,for yous to alone deal with......this is why,reddit is better,it places more emphasis on content vs who is creator

Reddit has the same tendency towards echo chamber as here, if not worse as down/upvoting pushes whatever is the Accepted Truth™ within a sub to the top spot. Dissent on any matter you care to mention in any sub falls off the bottom, so the echo chamber remains in play. Facebook is worse again.

If this thread popped up on Reddit with the same users the OP would have been downvoted to all hell and if you had arrived late to the game you could well have missed what they were saying. Yeah there is the thanks option here, but again you can't avoid reading past the ones who dissent.

One reason why forums became less popular is the increasing drawing of lines and a preference for only hearing voices one agrees with. At least in the forum layout I can read your stuff and you can read mine and can't really avoid hearing different opinions, whether we agree or don't. Increasingly it seems people don't want that. I have found that when people on Boards throughout the years complained about it being too "leftie" or too "righty", the undercurrent was nearly always "they don't agree with me".

Wibbs · 17-06-2020 7:41pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I always taught the mix of culture in oz/nz or paficic islands was a good fit......no crowd,trying to lord it over another......with a strong government,but a leeway/commonsense application of laws

I'd ask the Maori about that. They still face serious societal issues and have been campaigning for decades about it. Like other minorities elsewhere they're over represented among the poor and those in prison.

Though it also leaves many abbos behind too,but thats a similar issue,we have here with travellers....(suspect that modern capitalism isnt the be-all and end all either).....but they have some good/commonsense protections under employment laws to shoulder cultural issue like walkabout too

Your use of the word "Abbo" is not a good thing. It's very much considered an extremely derogatory term by Native Australians. Whose history of exploitation, abuse, stolen children and murder at the hands of the White man is a horror. You can't compare it with Irish Travellers in a million years.

LiquidZeb · 17-06-2020 7:41pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Why dont you ask them?

Yeah that would end well I'm sure.

17-06-2020 7:55pm

Wibbs wrote: »

I'd ask the Maori about that. They still face serious societal issues and have been campaigning for decades about it. Like other minorities elsewhere they're over represented among the poor and those in prison.

I used work.with few of them,pronounced mouldy-was a mind blower for me that,and islanders (honestly sound out chaps),they have massive integration and protections in law (yous need learn mauri language and haka etc for citizenship)......but i seen and been to poor areas and chrstal meth is a terrible drug,which im againest prohibition in general,but that ever gets here we are fcuked

Your use of the word "Abbo" is not a good thing. It's very much considered an extremely derogatory term by Native Australians. Whose history of exploitation, abuse, stolen children and murder at the hands of the White man is a horror. You can't compare it with Irish Travellers in a million years.

I didnt even want to take on spelling abroginal,my spelling is terrible

They have had an horrendous time,they are too different vs white settlers/prodestant rethoric of 18th century ,the english were massacring them,while signing treaties with mauris (suspect their best may have been wiped out,but likely venturing into some sketchy eugenics ground there,that id not think good)

Any i met,were sound,bit odd in responding,but hard working etc,but alcohol/weed really destroys them (known a young wan from cork,that worked in both dubai and alice springs,stories she could tell about poverty are a disgrace and oz one of richest countries in world)....

but the traveller comparison is laboured tbf (though id dread to think how a discussion on those woman who got their father imprisiones yesterday would go!)

swarlb · 17-06-2020 8:21pm

endacl wrote: »

Hard to imagine a dish that can’t be improved by adding a dash of spice.

Good thing.

Not everyone likes spicy food.... plenty love their 'meat and potatoes'

Kermit.de.frog · 17-06-2020 8:25pm

The utopian vision of multiculturalism hasn't been obtained anywhere in the world.

Maybe Ireland will be different?

nthclare · 17-06-2020 8:51pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The utopian vision of multiculturalism hasn't been obtained anywhere in the world.

Maybe Ireland will be different?

Ennis in Co Clare seems to be doing ok, they're well ahead on multiculturalism and people just getting on with it....

They've the right ingredient for acceptance and inclusion, don't ask me what it is but if you lived in this county for most of your life you'll understand..

Chris_Heilong · 17-06-2020 9:13pm

Multiculturism is very bad, It does not equate to people of different races all living together as some think, it means multiple cultures all living in a country that used to just have one culture, Nobody should ever think about immigration to a country and expect the country to change for them, anyone who comes here I hope that they want to become a part of our unique culture, also all cultures are not equally as enlightened.

We can have a little from everywhere but make sure every child speaks the common language, mixes with the local people and know that Irish culture is what they should aim to integrate into. What I would hate to see is areas where just one group all move in to together and act like they are just back in their home countries as these become insular and lead to social unrest further down the line.

Ahh I found a clip I seen ages ago which covers some of my points.

2u2me · 17-06-2020 9:42pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Who were almost always invaders. That part seems to be glossed over. The very language we're typing this in is because of invasion and colonisation. Now it's a positive today, but ask many generations of Irish how positive it was in the past. When cultures mix there is nearly always conflict. Look around at the flashpoints today. America has been multicultural by the very nature of it as a country and yet... Brazil is a melting pot, but who are clustered at the top and who are clustered at the bottom. Two thirds of the inhabitants of favelas are Black or mixed. And both of them are founded on invasion and colonisation.

Name an example. If it works so exquisitely it should be a doddle to name a long list of them throughout history. The problem is that in damned near every single conflict in history it was between cultures and ethnic groups. Them V Us is writ large in our history and it seems in our very nature.

I think you're arguing with a shadow here. The bits you've omiitted from my quote I believe were most relevant.

One example: America. People who went to the US willingly from all parts of the world, all of their cultures combined we now called America; they created the richest, most free society ever seen in history. The only invaders were the original colonists, but even at that the native American indians regularly invaded each other aswell.
Many dishes, words, foods, sports, etc.. all had origins in other cultures that we now call 'american'. It wasn't through domination, it was through collaboration.

But my point was more that this needs to be willing. There must be a demand for people in your country; it can't just be to prop up the failing pension system. It must be numbers that are manageable by the country.

If you want multiculturalism you must accept that people must integrate into the community they must change to some extent, learn a new language, learn the ways of the land etc... not just come here and speak the same language they were speaking in a foreign country creating ghettos of people from different countries. This is the problem. That should not be confusd with integrating people successfully into one's country which has been happening throughout the history of our species.

briany · 17-06-2020 11:12pm

2u2me wrote: »

But my point was more that this needs to be willing. There must be a demand for people in your country; it can't just be to prop up the failing pension system. It must be numbers that are manageable by the country.

There are different kinds of willing - politically willing, economically willing, socially willing, for example.

I would say that of these three, being economically willing is the most common. There may be an amount of 'do-gooder' mentality that wants to house, clothe and feed the poor of the world just because they feel it's the right thing to do, but it's dwarfed by the historical and continuing drive toward cheap labour and/or to make up for the shortfall of native skills.

In that way, it's Capitalism that is the main driver of immigration, as well as simply maintaining the system to which we are used. It *could* be about propping up the pension system in the sense that an older person may not like seeing a few dark faces about the town, but a far greater tragedy in their lives would be to become destitute and would surely constitute a big political crisis.

Eric Cartman · 17-06-2020 11:33pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The utopian vision of multiculturalism hasn't been obtained anywhere in the world.

Maybe Ireland will be different?

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results - Albert Einstein.

multiculturalism, open border immigration, socialism, communism. Its always the same voices shouting 'do it again, it'll be better this time'

mandrake04 · 18-06-2020 12:05am

FVP3 wrote: »

WTF is the dwarf apologising for something which is Australian history? We didn't run that state. At this stage we've probably apologised more than the Spanish and Portuguese.

Still Irish people had a hand in massacring aboriginals that's a fact and Micheal D apologised on our behalf that's the way it happened. There was no real need to massacre them but they still did.

Also the stolen generation was run by the churches and the Catholic Church being the largest imported the skills from the experts ie. Irish mother/Baby homes and don't forget when ever abusive Priests were complained about and the bishop moved them were did a lot of them go? yep on a mission.

boardise · 18-06-2020 12:11am

Wibbs wrote: »

Who were almost always invaders. That part seems to be glossed over. The very language we're typing this in is because of invasion and colonisation. Now it's a positive today, but ask many generations of Irish how positive it was in the past. When cultures mix there is nearly always conflict. Look around at the flashpoints today. America has been multicultural by the very nature of it as a country and yet... Brazil is a melting pot, but who are clustered at the top and who are clustered at the bottom. Two thirds of the inhabitants of favelas are Black or mixed. And both of them are founded on invasion and colonisation.

Name an example. If it works so exquisitely it should be a doddle to name a long list of them throughout history. The problem is that in damned near every single conflict in history it was between cultures and ethnic groups. Them V Us is writ large in our history and it seems in our very nature.

'...In our very nature'. Indeed.
There's an Arab proverb that shows how groups league together in smaller or larger numbers depending on the scale of contention ( reminiscent of the layers of an onion broadening from the core to the surface). It goes something like -

Me against my brother
-Me and my brother against other relatives
-Our family against other family
-Our families (=clan) against other clan
-Our clans(=tribe) against other tribe
Our tribes against 'the world' =strangers /foreigners.

Spanish Eyes · 18-06-2020 12:12am

Legal immigration according to the rules for non EU members is fine. They are wanted and welcome and legal having gone through the visa process.

Sorry now, but it's the hordes of so called asylum seekers arriving here from god knows where that get my goat. And they cost us a heck of a lot of money too. No need for me to elaborate further.

ShatterAlan · 18-06-2020 12:26am

RyanthePirate wrote: »

I would like to see a Boards.ie Consensus.

Economists agree that immigration has a net positive on the economy and this immigration is surely a wonderful thing for the county.

Agree/Disagree?

You lasted well didn't you :pac:

completedit · 18-06-2020 12:44am

It's probably been said but America was not a multicultural society at all. There's a reason baseball is the most popular sport there. Germans in the midwest were forced to conform and speak English fearing that they posed a threat to national security. At one time German was so prevalent there and the midwest was very culturally Germanic. People had the freedom to do what they want at home but over time you see a complete fusion of cultures-Ever notice how none of the Italian Americans speak Italian? Or the Irish who went there when Irish was the language here don't still speak Irish? Because in a multicultural society that is what happens.

Sadly, multiculturalism doesn't work. It's not about cultures being better or worse, just some are more compatible. Irish culture wouldn't work in central Asia, maybe with the exception of the Kazakhs. Difference in appearance and cultural divergences begin to add up and slowly you just see a society that lacks any cohesion. Do we even want multiculturalism for the world? Homogenization to me does not seem like something we should aspire to. Diversity and cultural richness and uniqueness are goals of themselves.

To butcher the Frankie Boyle joke but I'm all for immigration but wouldn't it be better if we had a world where an African farmer can stay and farm in Africa rather than trying to get across the med in a burst blowup boat to then spend 4 days under a lorry so that he can sell lollipops in a nightclub toilet.

2u2me · 18-06-2020 1:16am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The saddest part of it is when the low paid Irish people and low paid immigrants turn on each other. Instead of the low paid standing together and trying to improve their collective lot, they fight against each other. See BLM vs monuments protectors, [...] It's so often the way these things work where the poor divide themselves rather then working together. Needless to say, it suits the other classes of people to have a weak and divided working class - cheap labour.

That's what they want.

1800_Ladladlad · 18-06-2020 2:38am

Eoin O'Broin confidently stating that anker babies should be given give birthright citizenship and that we should remove the 27th Amendment as it is racist. This is simply wrong. Over 80% of the Irish Republic voted against this in '03. This shows utter contempt for democracy.

https://twitter.com/EOBroin/status/1273300365530869763

Let's make a clear statement here today; Ireland belongs to all of us. Not just those of us who were born here. but those people who come here, who work here, and contribute to our society.

Yeah, legal immigrants that will show to have a positive contribution to the Irish economy and integrate into the social structure of our country. Not financial drains.

Tell me how · 18-06-2020 3:02am

Multiculturalism does work imo.
The world is very different now than what it was in the past, common media (music/TV markets), the prevalence of social media, student exchange programs, access to low cost travel etc means there is more awareness of what other cultures are like, and more possibility to experience them. Trying to maintain a 'pure' society (by either side) is regressive in my view.

Some argue that conflict arises when cultures mix, that is true, to a degree, but there was always conflict which often escalated to outright warfare when those countries felt no association with each other.

Arguing that the whole idea of it doesn't work because of isolated instances of conflict (which may only have people of different cultures involved as opposed to this being the root cause) is like complaining about cars because of the numbers of deaths and injuries associated with them.

I'm also curious about how the defenders of a countries own 'culture', at least those who publicly call for it, often seem to be of the likes we saw in London at the weekend. A cross between a 4 day stag party and a day release program. Or our own public examples who were in the High Court recently. Is that the type of personality we are so concerned about being eroded?

Arghus · 18-06-2020 3:19am

I think it's great.

Lefty Bicek · 18-06-2020 7:01am

Tell me how wrote: »

Multiculturalism does work imo.
The world is very different now than what it was in the past, common media (music/TV markets), the prevalence of social media, student exchange programs, access to low cost travel etc means there is more awareness of what other cultures are like, and more possibility to experience them. Trying to maintain a 'pure' society (by either side) is regressive in my view.

Some argue that conflict arises when cultures mix, that is true, to a degree, but there was always conflict which often escalated to outright warfare when those countries felt no association with each other.

Arguing that the whole idea of it doesn't work because of isolated instances of conflict (which may only have people of different cultures involved as opposed to this being the root cause) is like complaining about cars because of the numbers of deaths and injuries associated with them.

I'm also curious about how the defenders of a countries own 'culture', at least those who publicly call for it, often seem to be of the likes we saw in London at the weekend. A cross between a 4 day stag party and a day release program. Or our own public examples who were in the High Court recently. Is that the type of personality we are so concerned about being eroded?

Define 'multiculturalism', please.

Because nothing you've written there is relevant to the term.

Phil.x · 18-06-2020 7:21am

Ongar/hansfield...enough said.

Thelonious Monk · 18-06-2020 7:33am

tayto lover wrote: »

Ask the people of Balbriggan how it’s working for them.

I visit there regularly as a mate bought there years ago. It isn't controlled by black gangs like you all fantasise about. It's grand, him and his friends like living there. The village actually has potential if they develop it properly.

ArchXStanton · 18-06-2020 7:59am

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I also would echo a call for a referendum on multiculturalism.

I sense a huge disconnect between politicians and the public on this. A disconnect that is getting wider by the week

A referendum Would give the politicians guidance on the direction this country wants to go

Our EU overlords have spoken... They don't care about you, your opinions or what's in the interest of your country

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q94syUDDhxA

Dyr · 18-06-2020 8:49am

Seems to have worked out fairly well in London and Paris anyway. Socially cohesive, well integrated capitals. Apparently theres even a commison to decide what artifacts from the previous inhabitants culture will be allowed to remain standing

Thelonious Monk · 18-06-2020 9:11am

Bambi wrote: »

Seems to have worked out fairly well in London and Paris anyway. Socially cohesive, well integrated capitals. Apparently theres even a commison to decide what artifacts from the previous inhabitants culture will be allowed to remain standing

I lived in a mostly black area in London and it was grand. Easy to buy drugs mind.

biko · 18-06-2020 9:21am

John Cleese have said that London was no longer an English city, saying "virtually all my friends from abroad have confirmed my observation".
Mayor "Part and parcel" Khan objected saying "diversity is our strength".

London has gone from a less than a third minorities to almost half in 20 years.
This is probably what Cleese was referring to.

If it happened in London it may just happen in Dublin.
There is plenty of political will for things to go this way.

kildare lad · 18-06-2020 9:32am

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Eoin O'Broin confidently stating that anker babies should be given give birthright citizenship and that we should remove the 27th Amendment as it is racist. This is simply wrong. Over 80% of the Irish Republic voted against this in '03. This shows utter contempt for democracy.

https://twitter.com/EOBroin/status/1273300365530869763

Yeah, legal immigrants that will show to have a positive contribution to the Irish economy and integrate into the social structure of our country. Not financial drains.

We're seeing the fruits of the anchor babies now who're running wild in certain parts of Ireland , come here and the more kids you have the money we'll pay you . You had people getting here ready to pop ,straight down the social to get the house , medical card , children's allowance etc. That system was used and abused by some of the laziest people on planet who have been nothing but a drain on the tax payer since getting here .

Dyr · 18-06-2020 9:35am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I lived in a mostly black area in London and it was grand. Easy to buy drugs mind.

Yeah, easy access to drugs is usually one of the key indicitors of a neighborhood headed in the right direction...

paw patrol · 18-06-2020 9:38am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I visit there regularly as a mate bought there years ago. It isn't controlled by black gangs like you all fantasise about. It's grand, him and his friends like living there. The village actually has potential if they develop it properly.

It's gone to the dogs and the black gangs are roaming like crazy esp pre- covid where they would swarm the public transport and harass people.

"controlled"? perhaps not - what does that even mean anyway?

Stateofyou · 18-06-2020 9:40am

Risingshadoo wrote: »

Immigration is always a bad thing. Just look at America.

Exactly. White Europeans who stole the place have now taken over everything.

Stateofyou · 18-06-2020 9:42am

kildare lad wrote: »

We're seeing the fruits of the anchor babies now who're running wild in certain parts of Ireland , come here and the more kids you have the money we'll pay you . You had people getting here ready to pop ,straight down the social to get the house , medical card , children's allowance etc. That system was used and abused by some of the laziest people on planet who have been nothing but a drain on the tax payer since getting here .

"Anchor babies" running wild :pac:
"some of the laziest people on the planet"

This is biased and prejudiced language.

WrenBoy · 18-06-2020 9:46am

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Eoin O'Broin confidently stating that anker babies should be given give birthright citizenship and that we should remove the 27th Amendment as it is racist. This is simply wrong. Over 80% of the Irish Republic voted against this in '03. This shows utter contempt for democracy.

https://twitter.com/EOBroin/status/1273300365530869763

One of the comments was good "Brits out, Everyone else in" lol

Montage of Feck · 18-06-2020 9:48am

Yugoslavia, USSR, Ottoman empire etc..... I'm seeing a trend.

Wibbs · 18-06-2020 9:59am

2u2me wrote: »

I think you're arguing with a shadow here. The bits you've omiitted from my quote I believe were most relevant.

OK and then I read this next part:

One example: America. People who went to the US willingly from all parts of the world, all of their cultures combined we now called America; they created the richest, most free society ever seen in history. The only invaders were the original colonists, but even at that the native American indians regularly invaded each other aswell.
Many dishes, words, foods, sports, etc.. all had origins in other cultures that we now call 'american'. It wasn't through domination, it was through collaboration.

That paragraph is one of the most naive/jingoistic/deluded/hollywood fantasy[delete as applicable] I've read.

People who went to the US willingly from all parts of the world

Save for the slaves of course and its still not going too swimmingly for their descendants. Black men are six times more likely to be murdered than White men, the fifth cause of death for young Black men is encounters with police and they end up in gaol five times more than Whites. Hell, as we've seen American police sworn to protect and serve feel so cocksure in their position and attitudes that they can openly and publicly snuff out the life of a Black guy in the street in front of a wall of camera phones.

they created the richest, most free society ever seen in history.

Hahahahhaha.... oh wait, you're serious? Even at its peak America had one of the biggest wealth gulfs of any nation, and still does today. It imprisons more of its citizens than any other nation and executes more than any other save for China. In the Good Old Days™ of the 50's and 60's that Hollywood and Americans often like to look back on as a golden age, when the cars had chrome and fins and rockets were blasting into space, Blacks were excluded from that, never mind the poor Whites. Blacks and other "undesirables" were refused mortgages and even when they had money were pushed out of the Doris Day White neighbourhoods. Jews weren't exactly flavour of the month in golf clubs and the like. When men were walking on the moon the state was napalming women and kids in far off paddy fields, while Blacks and other minorities were rioting in the streets and some demographics had one of the worst childhood mortality rates in the Western world.

The only invaders were the original colonists, but even at that the native American indians regularly invaded each other aswell.

Good Christ, I've read some daft notions in my time, but that takes the biscuit. To have a policy of extermination and genocidal intent towards a people for centuries, the "solution" in the end being reservations. I can't believe anyone could write what you have there with a straight face.

It wasn't through domination, it was through collaboration.

Now you have to be having a laugh, or you've bought The American Dream™ © wholesale with eyes wide shut. What collaboration was involved in building the railways, built on the blood and bones of Chinese and Irish coolies? The Irish workers were hard driven, but at least they has some rights, the Chinese had few. Ever hear of the Chinese Exclusion Act? They couldn't become citizens, had to carry ID at all times and couldn't testify in court and were paid half of what Whites were. That's before we consider the exploitation of the poor of any colour or creed. Countries always have a history of exploitation of resources, material and human, but America has a worse record than many on that score, and here we are in the 21st century and those divisions are still in evidence.

Basically, if you think America is a great example of how multiculturalism works you're proving my point for me.

That should not be confusd with integrating people successfully into one's country which has been happening throughout the history of our species.

Only it hasn't. Individuals can and have been integrated into societies throughout history, groups haven't, or very rarely, and very different groups pretty much never. That's the point.

Thelonious Monk · 18-06-2020 10:00am

biko wrote: »

John Cleese have said that London was no longer an English city, saying "virtually all my friends from abroad have confirmed my observation".
Mayor "Part and parcel" Khan objected saying "diversity is our strength".

London has gone from a less than a third minorities to almost half in 20 years.
This is probably what Cleese was referring to.

If it happened in London it may just happen in Dublin.
There is plenty of political will for things to go this way.

Is that a bad thing though? It's possibly the biggest economic powerhouse of a city in the world. It thrives on people living there from all over the world. And it always has albeit on a smaller scale, it was rich from trade with the Dutch and Venetians and Portuguese in the time of the tudors etc. It's what makes it such an amazing place. For me it's the best city in the world anyway.
I don't care where my neighbour comes from here in Dublin, so if Ireland goes that way too, why would it bother me?

kildare lad · 18-06-2020 10:05am

Stateofyou wrote: »

"Anchor babies" running wild :pac:
"some of the laziest people on the planet"

This is biased and prejudiced language.

Call it what you want but it true . Do you think that some people that came here in the late 90s / early noughties ever had any intentions of working ? They only came here to ride the system, that system was rode to bits by people who couldn't work to warm themselves , what ever happened to getting yourself set up and financially secure before having babies. No not in Ireland where they rewarded you houses etc on the backs of the taxpayers

What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

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