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What would you have done?

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    #62
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    SmartinMartin wrote: »
    It's far easier to walk on.

    Christ. Get a grip people and contribute to your environs.

    Sadly that's the way society is. Intervening to help in any situation costs you time, and drags you into said situation in a way you most likely could do without.

    Few people want to bring hassle on themselves.

    It is always easier to walk on. I never said it was right to.


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    #63
    Kraftwerk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 472 ✭✭Kraftwerk


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Which is why I mentioned the two recent and very public incidents...this is not a figment of anyone's imagination.

    You'd want to be blind or willfully ignorant not to notice the noxious message being pumped into women that men are toxic beings that pose a risk...as pointed out already, they are running ads on tv to the same effect!!!

    Men are not creating any hysteria, they are quiet rightly reacting to it!!!!

    Approaching a drunk young women on a street is madness...are you going to lay a hand on her if she needs physical assistance?

    It's kind of ironic to talk about the toxic message being fed to women that all men are evil in a thread where the prevailing opinion is don't help any women in distress because they'll probably accuse you of sexual harassment and ruin your life.

    It's 100% hysteria based on a couple of incidents.


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    #64
    Kraftwerk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 472 ✭✭Kraftwerk


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    You can't call it an overreaction and then give various steps one should take to protect themselves.

    They said could take. Not should take. If you were worried about something happening.


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    #65
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    Kraftwerk wrote: »
    It's kind of ironic to talk about the toxic message being fed to women that all men are evil in a thread where the prevailing opinion is don't help any women in distress because they'll probably accuse you of sexual harassment and ruin your life.

    It's 100% hysteria based on a couple of incidents.


    So long as you are not involved in those couple of instances, then everything will be fine. It's how to know in advance, when a person could be behaving unpredictably and not be able to recall what went on, the consequences of such a situation could be very serious.


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    #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    SmartinMartin wrote: »
    I'm delighted that anger or happiness or any other feeling can now be determined over t'internet, fair play to you.
    I'm amazed that you didn't detect my feeling of disgust at the cowardly attitudes displayed on this thread so far.

    Cowardly my arse. It's called personal responsibility, and looking out for yourself.

    Less than a few days ago, we had a community (nation, and internet) go nuts about something that male teachers apparently said about girl students, with a whole host of people jumping the wrong way without any evidence, and it turned out to be perfectly harmless. Ahh shucks. It doesn't matter, nobody was hurt.

    This time. A variety of other examples are sprinkled through this thread. Ahh shucks, they don't matter. It only happened to a few guys. Maybe. Although considering the bias from society, and the police, it would be hard to say how often a guy wasn't done, in one way or another, for simply wanting to help out.

    There are heaps of stories which people can point to, (especially with the rise of immigration with cultures who have a greater connection with cons and trickery). The point being that placing yourself in that situation carries a risk. You might decide that risk is low enough to play with. Fine. Your choice... but in a changing society, it makes sense for men to be careful how they place themselves with others.

    Ring the cops. Hell, call a female friend to meet you before engaging with the stranger in the street. You don't need to jump into a potentially risky situation (with little indication that the person is genuinely in danger) without being prepared somewhat.


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    #67
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,381 ✭ [Deleted User]


    It's a pretty interesting change from a decade ago when people used to talk about how bad it was that in China, people didn't help in case they'd be hit with the bill or be sued.

    I guess the last few years would have definitely had an effect on both men and women and it's not surprising that it would make a 35-year-old wary of going near a drunk 15-year-old, when everyone from her, to a passerby, to her parents, could absolutely destroy your life.

    "Why are you taking a video of that girl?"


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    #68
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Kraftwerk wrote: »
    It's kind of ironic to talk about the toxic message being fed to women that all men are evil in a thread where the prevailing opinion is don't help any women in distress because they'll probably accuse you of sexual harassment and ruin your life.

    It's 100% hysteria based on a couple of incidents.

    No, it's not that they'll probably accuse you. In all likelihood they won't, but, they might. Why should a stranger take that risk? Being an upstanding specimen of humanity is no longer a good enough reason.

    One thing I had to laugh here is that the good samaritan should take steps to protect themselves from a false accusation. If I have to take such steps, then really should I be, voluntarily, getting involved at all?


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    #69
    Kraftwerk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 472 ✭✭Kraftwerk


    1874 wrote: »
    So long as you are not involved in those couple of instances, then everything will be fine. It's how to know in advance, when a person could be behaving unpredictably and not be able to recall what went on, the consequences of such a situation could be very serious.

    If you were to avoid every situation that might result in something bad you'd never leave the house. For all the talk in this thread of the risks I haven't seen many examples of it actually happening.


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    #70
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,323 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    A year ago I was driving home late & came across 3 teenagers out of their heads falling up the motorway trying to get home post teenage disco circa 2am. I went back for them thinking they’d be killed on the motorway & offered a lift. One refused to get in but wanted to give me a fiver for helping their friends. I refused it - but their drunk friend took it. They stumbled off - now ai had broken up the group and one was off up the motorway by themself. Two females were left. I insisted on rolling the back seat windows all they way down & telling them to tell me to stop anytime & I’d let them out immediately. They lived about 40 minute drive away & I had NO idea how to get to or from it - I followed M50 signs & the slightly less drunk girl gave vague directions to her house & then got out. Other girl was comatose and could not remember where she lived. After about half an hour of driving around panicing her friend called & I took the phone & ended up letting her out at a chipper allegedly close to where she lived. It was a total nightmare of a drive, I then had zero idea of how to get home & my nerves were gone. I’ve no idea what happened the third one ( never get into a car with a stranger) & between one thing & the next I doubt I’ll ever do it again.

    That I assume was drink - but with drugs nowadays thrown into the mix you have no idea of how they might be or turn on you. Some mixes make people volatile and violent & people can turn on you in a instant. Not to mention being left explaining someone OD or with injuries got elsewhere (or worse) that you are seen lumping out of your car. People here are expecting a lot from strangers - how about parents pick up their own children so they know they are safe or what they are up to. There is a lot of risk and personal accountability and responsibility in this - how about that working both ways - the drunk child & the parent, or the person drinking or taking drugs to their max .

    I was horrified at the night wore on at what I had got into. I didn’t have battery left on my phone & put myself and the 3rd friend in a terrible spot. I was only lucky they didn’t puke up all over my car instead of outside - nobody needs or wants that let alone life changing accusations or claims that could easily ensue

    And - as anyone who has ever called will know, ringing for an ambulance the operator has your number & insists at you to stay with them and absolutely guilts you over & over if you don’t want to be involved or were just passing by and spotted them drunk/unconscious - it’s not the 1950’s anymore when ambulances are available or even arrive for a drunk person in any kind of timely way. I know - I’ve been that person too making the call. If only God forbid there were police on the street who would arrive or intervene - but they are too cute for that too - and are inevitably buttoned up in their station or ‘no car is available’, or they are on another call and will be quite a while.. every excuse - and you are now responsible and holding the can and a moving target for anything that goes wrong or in the confused/deluded persons mind. you really need a good drinking buddy or an exit plan home before you get too messy...


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    #71
    Kraftwerk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 472 ✭✭Kraftwerk


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    No, it's not that they'll probably accuse you. In all likelihood they won't, but, they might. Why should a stranger take that risk? Being an upstanding specimen of humanity is no longer a good enough reason.

    So you avoid every situation where something might happen? You don't do you.
    One thing I had to laugh here is that the good samaritan should take steps to protect themselves from a false accusation. If I have to take such steps, then really should I be, voluntarily, getting involved at all?

    Nobody said you should. They said you could if you were worried about it.


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    #72
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,381 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Kraftwerk wrote: »
    So you avoid every situation where something might happen? You don't do you.



    Nobody said you should. They said you could if you were worried about it. What makes me laugh is grown adults with the reading comprehension of toddlers terrified to help someone.

    Would you take those steps to protect yourself? Like record it on phone / make sure dashcam is on?


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    #73
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    popa smurf wrote: »
    Was out early this morning had to drive young lad to work and I was passing through our local town and I spotted this young one, she was legless on her own and looked very disoriented, my first thought was to stop and try to get her home safely as I have a young daughter myself. But than I said fucck better keep going and not get involved just wondering what would you have done.
    Called the guards of course. Tell them a young lady is in a bad way and needs a lift home.


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    #74
    Kraftwerk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 472 ✭✭Kraftwerk


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Would you take those steps to protect yourself? Like record it on phone / make sure dashcam is on?

    No. I don't have a dash cam and I don't buy into this nonsense that my life would be over if she thought I was a pervert. I'd just pull up, ask if they were OK and if they needed a lift.


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    #75
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,323 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Called the guards of course. Tell them a young lady is in a bad way and needs a lift home.

    yeah right - ever tried that? In dublin? We do not provide a taxi service for drunks - standard reply, along with others already quoted.


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    #76
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,381 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Kraftwerk wrote: »
    No. I don't have a dash cam and I don't buy into this nonsense that my life would be over if she thought I was a pervert. I'd just pull up, ask if they were OK and if they needed a lift.

    I'd only stop and try to get parents or friends on the phone. I wouldn't drive anywhere with her without it being known first. Arriving at her house and her mum waiting at the window is just asking for trouble.


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    #77
    Kraftwerk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 472 ✭✭Kraftwerk


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I'd only stop and try to get parents or friends on the phone. I wouldn't drive anywhere with her without it being known first. Arriving at her house and her mum waiting at the window is just asking for trouble.

    Well if you could get someone to pick her up all the better.


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    #78
    SmartinMartin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭SmartinMartin


    JustAThought wrote: »
    yeah right - ever tried that? In dublin? We do not provide a taxi service for drunks - standard reply, along with others already quoted.

    Twice I've done this in the last 10 years, and twice the guards dealt with it. What's your point?


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    #79
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    Kraftwerk wrote: »
    If you were to avoid every situation that might result in something bad you'd never leave the house. For all the talk in this thread of the risks I haven't seen many examples of it actually happening.


    No one said avoid every situation, the situation in the OP was a "young wan", now I even took that to mean an adult young wan, but that can be difficult to ascertain itself. That situation.

    I don't agree with avoiding every situation and I consider it fairly weak to not intervene in certain circumstances, even if there is risk, not long ago I bollocked a group of young lads out of it (basically thugs) who were clearly intimidating some younger looking boys who didn't look like they were capable of defending themselves, in return I was threatened and told they knew where I lived, there were a number of them and I was happily willing to defend myself based on threats they were making even though each of them was nearly my size, I was annoyed and later after I calmed down, I realised even that situation could have gone badly, I'm not willing to turn a blind eye to all, but a situation where there is one female involved could be as bad, even one poster mentioned where the girls boyfriend turned up and wanted to fight the good samaritan, that may be staged for a fight or even the whole thing may be staged to gain some benefit.

    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's a pretty interesting change from a decade ago when people used to talk about how bad it was that in China, people didn't help in case they'd be hit with the bill or be sued.

    I guess the last few years would have definitely had an effect on both men and women and it's not surprising that it would make a 35-year-old wary of going near a drunk 15-year-old, when everyone from her, to a passerby, to her parents, could absolutely destroy your life.

    "Why are you taking a video of that girl?"


    That sounds different in that it might be a societal/cultural problem or lack of legal protections from the financial perspective, like they are mainly trying to scam you financially or you would have some legal responsibility to pay up.
    I took the Ops young wan to mean an adult young wan, so add in dealing with a female who is technically a child, well destroy your life is what people fear, but I think there is a certain amount of either naivete or inexperience in how things can turn out for some posters to just say or expect people to wade in like a white knight.


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    #80
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,323 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    SmartinMartin wrote: »
    Twice I've done this in the last 10 years, and twice the guards dealt with it. What's your point?

    That they refuse point blank. But your world is different. Your gaurds come & are better than ours, you expect other people to look after and drive your drunk daughter home, etc.


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    #81
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You can't call it an overreaction and then give various steps one should take to protect themselves.

    None of these steps are so cumbersome as to prevent them being taken.

    We look right and left before we cross the road, we don't spend forever on one side even though the impact of a collision could be fatal.


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    #82
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    Tell me how wrote: »
    What will you be telling your daughter were she to end up in such a situation?

    (Please don't say she won't or anything similar, the instances of girls drinks being spiked I would think are much more likely to occur than an instance of false accusation which you are so concerned about)


    I dont have a daughter, but If I did, Id be encouraging her to be involved in other things from much earlier on and not think getting drunk or even drinking at all is the be all and end all and if they did, certainly not getting so blotto that they cant handle themselves or to go off on their own, Id definitely be highlighting potential of spiking of drinks.


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    #83
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    1874 wrote: »
    I dont have a daughter, but If I did, Id be encouraging her to be involved in other things from much earlier on and not think getting drunk or even drinking at all is the be all and end all and if they did, certainly not getting so blotto that they cant handle themselves or to go off on their own, Id definitely be highlighting potential of spiking of drinks.

    But the logic you are proposing is to never get involved in helping someone out.

    your daughter could have a flat tire on the side of the road, she might be feeling faint from illness, she might indeed have been attacked or assaulted. You, if I understand you correctly, are suggesting a bystander should never look to help such a person out for fear of being accused of something.


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    #84
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,323 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    we are talking about men driving women home who are found falling down drunk at the side
    of the road after a long night out.


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    #85
    SmartinMartin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭SmartinMartin


    JustAThought wrote: »
    we are talking about men driving women home who are found falling down drunk at the side
    of the road after a long night out.

    "Was out early this morning had to drive young lad to work and I was passing through our local town and I spotted this young one, she was legless on her own and looked very disoriented, my first thought was to stop and try to get her home safely as I have a young daughter myself. But than I said fucck better keep going and not get involved just wondering what would you have done."

    We aren't, we're discussing whether this man should have stopped to help the girl in question or just ****ed off like he did. Hopefully she got home OK.


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    #86
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    Tell me how wrote: »
    But the logic you are proposing is to never get involved in helping someone out.

    your daughter could have a flat tire on the side of the road, she might be feeling faint from illness, she might indeed have been attacked or assaulted. You, if I understand you correctly, are suggesting a bystander should never look to help such a person out for fear of being accused of something.


    If I had a daughter, Id expect her to be well trained to change a wheel, that is a completely different situation to what was suggested in the OP, again, I think women mostly either are able to deal with that themselves by being capable of changing the wheel/having someone they know and trust to help/or better still having a paid service to do so which is commonplace in insurance policies, rather than relying on random helpers to turn up at all.

    That said, I didnt say not call for help, so you are misquoting me, possibly intentionally, possibly by assuming so, unless you can show me where I said that?
    If I suggested anything, it is that I wouldnt get personally involved, in particular in response to if the person was what I would consider obviously drunk and this has been the main suggestion, that the person was legless, also I just replied stating where I did get involved in a scenario. Public drunkenness, less likely, but thats different to someone appearing to being ill or assaulted, I would still only stay in proximity to call for help before wading in, my experience says its sensible not to, so I'll do as I please whether you like it or not.


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    #87
    Draven Itchy Bread
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Draven Itchy Bread


    Silentcorner wrote: »

    Approaching a drunk young women on a street is madness...are you going to lay a hand on her if she needs physical assistance?

    I'd be contacting an ambulance, regardless.


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    #88
    Your Face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,277 ✭✭✭Your Face


    First thing that crossed my mind was the OPs personal safety.
    It would be nice to think that this woman is nice person in a vulnerable situation but she could be a complete nutjob.


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    #89
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    1874 wrote: »
    If I had a daughter, Id expect her to be well trained to change a wheel, that is a completely different situation to what was suggested in the OP, again, I think women mostly either are able to deal with that themselves by being capable of changing the wheel/having someone they know and trust to help/or better still having a paid service to do so which is commonplace in insurance policies, rather than relying on random helpers to turn up at all.

    That said, I didnt say not call for help, so you are misquoting me, possibly intentionally, possibly by assuming so, unless you can show me where I said that?
    If I suggested anything, it is that I wouldnt get personally involved, in particular in response to if the person was what I would consider obviously drunk and this has been the main suggestion, that the person was legless, also I just replied stating where I did get involved in a scenario. Public drunkenness, less likely, but thats different to someone appearing to being ill or assaulted, I would still only stay in proximity to call for help before wading in, my experience says its sensible not to, so I'll do as I please whether you like it or not.

    Confused as to how discussions work I see.

    Ok, carry on, I've seen enough.


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    #90
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Confused as to how discussions work I see.

    Ok, carry on, I've seen enough.


    You seem to be confused,
    You misrepresented what I have said, I have corrected that in reply.
    You appear to be insisting on carrying on with that tack because I corrected that and you cant accept it? or because I disagree with your assertion? or what? you want an argument? because you seem to have ignored that.

    A discussion is a two way thing, if you dont like what you hear, I cant help that. Its you that backed out without answering in any meaningful way.
    You obviously couldn't or dont want to answer or dont like or agree with what you hear.
    What Ive heard in the thread is, a number of posters say that they consider there is a risk in assisting someone, in particular this was about a young woman being drunk.



    I even gave an example of where I did intervene, you seem to be ignoring that and continuing on as if I have not replied, but the OP was about public drunkeness of a young woman. Not imo about all other possible scenarios, having said that, the risk suggested could apply to any scenario, does a guy risk getting involved to help someone where there may be problems because of that?



    Your refusal to listen because it seems you disagree and instead just reply with what you did, doesnt add anything to the discussion.
    So, whether you agree or like it or not, I'll do as I see fit at any occasion if it occurs, I am outright stating that, thats my perogative. I will assess the risk myself, thank you very much. I have zero intention of getting involved personally where I determine there is unnecessary risk, it doesnt mean I wont call for help/an ambulance (which I already stated).
    If you want to do otherwise, thats your decision.


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    #91
    Antares35
    Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    SmartinMartin wrote: »
    Unfortunately I didn't use enough to refer to you.
    Jesus Christ people, get involved. Help where it's needed, protect the vulnerable.
    If you are too self-centred or afraid to do it how are your children going to learn a sense of community, a sense of worth?.
    Great, a parenting lesson now on top of the lecture about our civic duties. :D


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