Right wing extremist group behind Dublin Protest say Gardai

NeuralNetwork · 28-02-2021 3:03pm

I would think though there is genuinely reason to be very, very aware of extremists and the insane conspiracy theories online. They seem minor, or even laughable until they lash out and then there’s a serious problem.

It didn’t take anything more than a guy with an improvised weapon, who had a xenophobic agenda and who had bought into every conspiracy theory going, to end up killing British MP, Jo Cox.

It’s one reason we need to absolutely dial back and challenge head on the rhetoric that starts trying to vilify individual TDs or ministers. There’s a huge difference between disagreeing and even protesting and and stuff like throwing around extremely inflammatory terms of abuse, which has happened here in the last few months with some of those groups. I mean when you’ve people shouting “pedo” etc it’s pretty screwed up territory.

You’re perfectly entitled to disagree with politicians, parties and governments and we have a really broad set of options and PR voting and nobody’s going to stop you venting on air, online or anywhere else, but when people start going down the route of crazy conspiracy theories, protesting people’s homes, attacking offices and violence and threats generally, that’s where democracy dies.

I mean, think about it: Who in their right mind would want to stand for office anymore in the USA? Your life would be turned upside down and you’d be constantly on the receiving end of personal abuse. The result of that is feeding into collapse of US politics. It’s driving the general public away and those who do engage are loud, aggressive and in bunkers.

We have a decent system here at the moment and it’s in a good situation in terms of political discourse and ability to argue without ripping itself apart and we could really do without importing American crazy and dysfunctional politics into what has evolved into a system that’s been very capable of having grown up discussions on very hard issues over the last couple of decades.

It’s not even about the left vs the right. The vast majority of (almost all) of our elected reps from the most left socialists to the most pro business FF and FGers are decent politicians and have proven they can debate and interact sanely.

There are a few imports from the USA we could do without and bunker politics, negative campaigning and Q anon are certainly on that list.

Birneybau · 28-02-2021 3:08pm

JeffKenna wrote: »

Something needs to be done about the hard left in this country. Hope they are locked up after yesterday.

Explain

francois · 28-02-2021 3:10pm

Birneybau wrote: »

Explain

Possibly the worst attempt at sh1tposting I've seen in a long time

tdf7187 · 28-02-2021 3:17pm

This will be disappointing to certain posters here who want to blame everything on the phantom bogeyman 'the left'. One of them decided, based on no evidence, that the populist right wing Yellow Vests protests were orchestrated by Sinn Fein.

tdf7187 · 28-02-2021 3:21pm

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

I would think though there is genuinely reason to be very, very aware of extremists and the insane conspiracy theories online. They seem minor, or even laughable until they lash out and then there’s a serious problem.

It didn’t take anything more than a guy with an improvised weapon, who had a xenophobic agenda and who had bought into every conspiracy theory going, to end up killing British MP, Jo Cox.

It’s one reason we need to absolutely dial back and challenge head on the rhetoric that starts trying to vilify individual TDs or ministers. There’s a huge difference between disagreeing and even protesting and and stuff like throwing around extremely inflammatory terms of abuse, which has happened here in the last few months with some of those groups. I mean when you’ve people shouting “pedo” etc it’s pretty screwed up territory.

You’re perfectly entitled to disagree with politicians, parties and governments and we have a really broad set of options and PR voting and nobody’s going to stop you venting on air, online or anywhere else, but when people start going down the route of crazy conspiracy theories, protesting people’s homes, attacking offices and violence and threats generally, that’s where democracy dies.

I mean, think about it: Who in their right mind would want to stand for office anymore in the USA? Your life would be turned upside down and you’d be constantly on the receiving end of personal abuse. The result of that is feeding into collapse of US politics. It’s driving the general public away and those who do engage are loud, aggressive and in bunkers.

We have a decent system here at the moment and it’s in a good situation in terms of political discourse and ability to argue without ripping itself apart and we could really do without importing American crazy and dysfunctional politics into what has evolved into a system that’s been very capable of having grown up discussions on very hard issues over the last couple of decades.

It’s not even about the left vs the right. The vast majority of (almost all) of our elected reps from the most left socialists to the most pro business FF and FGers are decent politicians and have proven they can debate and interact sanely.

There are a few imports from the USA we could do without and bunker politics, negative campaigning and Q anon are certainly on that list.

There was only one guy shouting about prominent politicians being 'paedos', a former journalist, and he is a well-known mentalist who has been banned numerous times from social media and needs to be in treatment. I don't support the current protests but I also have a problem with the 'softly softly' approach you are advocating regarding politicians. Most politicians don't deserve my respect. I have my reasons.

Rockfox · 28-02-2021 3:22pm

You mean the Right support "authoritarianism"...

NeuralNetwork · 28-02-2021 3:25pm

It’s orchestrated by a bubble of basically online conspiracies that exist outside Irish politics. It’s just feeding them if people start trying to associate it with any of the Irish political parties.

You’re looking at groups, organised online that have a definite objective of disrupting the calm, reasoned, peaceful stability of the Irish system or any system. They want to undermine the “mainstream media” and see functioning electoral politics as something to be smashed up.

Getting parties here to start turning on each other is a massive own goal by those who engage in it and there are, unfortunately, people who are very quick to suck that stuff up.

salmocab · 28-02-2021 3:25pm

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Still waiting for the equal share of outrage and outcry to be distributed towards the other protests and violence seen in the past year before I make my move.

Don’t worry you don’t need to admit you made it up as everyone already saw it.

combat14 · 28-02-2021 3:26pm

so if you dont agree with a one year never ending lockdown you are now labelled a nazi

isnt that just great

ExMachina1000 · 28-02-2021 3:30pm

salmocab wrote: »

Don’t worry you don’t need to admit you made it up as everyone already saw it.

So the equal condemnation isnt coming I take it

CtevenSrowder · 28-02-2021 3:35pm

tdf7187 wrote: »

There was only one guy shouting about prominent politicians being 'paedos', a former journalist, and he is a well-known mentalist who has been banned numerous times from social media and needs to be in treatment. I don't support the current protests but I also have a problem with the 'softly softly' approach you are advocating regarding politicians. Most politicians don't deserve my respect. I have my reasons.

Whilst politicians can piss me off it is still an incredibly difficult job. We are lucky in Ireland that political discourse is still political, and not personal like it's become in America for example. Politics in Ireland is still in a good place in Ireland for the most part, and certainly compared to other areas of the World.

NeuralNetwork · 28-02-2021 3:37pm

combat14 wrote: »

so if you dont agree with a one year never ending lockdown you are now labelled a nazi

isnt that just great

See! That’s exactly how it’s done. Throw in commentary that removes all nuance or subtly from discussion and turn it into “us” vs “them”.

Nobody has said if you don’t agree with a lockdown you’re a Nazi.

I mean you’ve three parties in office two of which are so pro business that lock downs go against every grain of their being and the other party could be better described as a bunch of hippies, yet somehow they’re being cast online as wanting to do nothing more than shut down the economy and limit personal freedoms.

How does than even make any sense?!

They opened the place up at Christmas because they were responding to political winds that wanted a meaningful Christmas and we ended up with the worst COVID rates in the entire world in January.

It’s like people have no memory - barely more than a month ago we had THE WORST COVID RATE per capita on the planet. That is why we’re are at Level 5. Not because someone has some lockdown obsession.

It wasn’t just a little bit bad. It could have completely collapsed the health system and run riot had we just continued on as if nothing was happening.

Half the commentary online is claiming that they totalitarians and the other half is claiming they’re refusing to seal the country off entirely.

We’re rock and place territory with COVID and I think most of the pubic fully realises that when you look at polling.

Clicking our ruby slippers together and making it all go away isn’t an option. We are stuck with this fecking virus and we have to and mostly are dealing with that. It’s not a perfect response but you’re not going to get 4.9 million people to all get everything right when it comes to a highly technical and abstract problem none of us has ever encountered before.

But sure reduce it to the most simple name calling. That’ll really help!

combat14 · 28-02-2021 3:45pm

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

See! That’s exactly how it’s done. Throw in commentary that removes all nuance or subtly from discussion and turn it into “us” vs “them”.

Nobody has said if you don’t agree with a lockdown you’re a Nazi.

I mean you’ve three parties in office two of which are so pro business that lock downs go against every grain of their being and the other party could be better described as a bunch of hippies, yet somehow they’re being cast online as wanting to do nothing more than shut down the economy and limit personal freedoms.

How does than even make any sense?!

They opened the place up at Christmas because they were responding to political winds that wanted a meaningful Christmas and we ended up with the worst COVID rates in the entire world in January.

It’s like people have no memory - barely more than a month ago we had THE WORST COVID RATE per capita on the planet. That is why we’re are at Level 5. Not because someone has some lockdown obsession.

It wasn’t just a little bit bad. It could have completely collapsed the health system and run riot had we just continued on as if nothing was happening.

Half the commentary online is claiming that they totalitarians and the other half is claiming they’re refusing to seal the country off entirely.

We’re rock and place territory with COVID and I think most of the pubic fully realises that when you look at polling.

Clicking out ruby slippers together and making it all go away isn’t an option. We are stuck with this fecking virus and we have to and mostly are dealing with that. It’s not a perfect response but you’re not going to get 4.9 million people to all get everything right when it comes to a highly technical and abstract problem none of us has ever encountered before.

But sure reduce it to the most simple name calling. That’ll really help!

good post - i was only responding to the title of the thread:

Right wing extremist group behind Dublin Protest say Gardai

suicide_circus · 28-02-2021 3:46pm

I'm Decco and i'm on de far righ, righ?!

Birneybau · 28-02-2021 3:53pm

francois wrote: »

Possibly the worst attempt at sh1tposting I've seen in a long time

So we just accept b.s. at face value?

NeuralNetwork · 28-02-2021 3:55pm

There are times when you’d wonder about humans. We’ve the collective intellect to see what the issues are and how to solve them, but we’ve the mentality of fighting tribes.

Seems to me for all the bright visions of a high tech, open minded, optimistic future we could just as easily end up in some of post industrial Dark Ages, with a large dose of Mad Max all driven by online rumours.

COVID seems like it will either make us or break us as it’s the first serious problem a relatively entitled “west” has had to deal with in our lifetimes and it just seems many are throwing the toys out of the pram rather than actually trying to fix the problem.

Ireland’s far from the worst but when you look around the USA or Europe - conspiracy theories in the main steam, violence, chaotic politics, weak leadership relying on populism to keep power rather than competence, some of the weakest journalism in decades, largely being caused by imploding media as sales as online social platforms squeeze them out, so there’s no money to fund it anymore.

Then throw a pandemic into a system and a society or group of societies, large chunks of which are too self absorbed to respond in a practical way, preferring to hide in online bubbles where they’ve their own reality.

Depressing.

meep · 28-02-2021 3:56pm

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

The law is an ass.

The garda had riot helmets on. No danger.

Iv no interest in the hyperbole

So, to extend your logic, if gardai had bullet proof vests on, it would be a OK to shoot at them ???

Collie D · 28-02-2021 4:01pm

Birneybau wrote: »

So we just accept b.s. at face value?

I had taken it as being aimed at the BS post you asked to be explained

Mimon · 28-02-2021 4:03pm

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Again it's a firework not a molotov cocktail.

Their clothes and body going on fire? Lol. It didn't happen nor is it probable.
Remember I said about the hyperbole.

There were fireworks and rocks thrown at Gardai in blanchardstown too recently.

Would you stand there and take one point blank in the face, no you fkn wouldn't, cop to fk on with this ****e.

McHardcore · 28-02-2021 4:03pm

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

I mean you’ve three parties in office two of which are so pro business that lock downs go against every grain of their being and the other party could be better described as a bunch of hippies, yet somehow they’re being cast online as wanting to do nothing more than shut down the economy and limit personal freedoms.

How does than even make any sense?!

This is an excellent point. Logically, it makes no sense for the government to want a lockdown if it weren't for the virus.

Unfortunately, we have a minority of people who wish to ignore the view of science and experts and accept illogical explanations instead. The reason why, is because it gives them a feeling of superiority over "the sheep" in that they know "the truth" and everyone else is wrong.

28-02-2021 4:15pm

smurgen wrote: »

Egg on the face of Drew Harris.

https://twitter.com/PTHosford/status/1365953325334728704?s=19

Man makes a mistake and owns up to same. Egg on face? Really? More the Mark of the man that he’s big enough to admit it and issue a clarification.

James Brown · 28-02-2021 4:16pm

biko wrote: »

Is it too early to mention Trump?

When I read Harris' initial take i thought of Trump. 'the far left'. Political comment.
No doubt we'll see FF/FG/Greens use it to try score points off the shinners.
The only anti-mask folk im aware of are the same anti abortion anti gay marriage types wouldn't touch the left.

Stihl waters · 28-02-2021 4:16pm

Is there any concrete evidence it was any right or left wing involved, it just seemed like a bunch of tracksuited howyas with fcuk all else to do, not that they do anything anyway

James Brown · 28-02-2021 4:22pm

Stihl waters wrote: »

Is there any concrete evidence it was any right or left wing involved, it just seemed like a bunch of tracksuited howyas with fcuk all else to do, not that they do anything anyway

Its irresponsible of them to try create such divides without solid evidence. Likely a call went out over social media and all sorts turned up. There will be some ring leaders no doubt.
'Tracksuits howyas' don't tend to get involved in political discourse.

28-02-2021 4:23pm

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

There are times when you’d wonder about humans. We’ve the collective intellect to see what the issues are and how to solve them, but we’ve the mentality of fighting tribes.

Seems to me for all the bright visions of a high tech, open minded, optimistic future we could just as easily end up in some of post industrial Dark Ages, with a large dose of Mad Max all driven by online rumours.

COVID seems like it will either make us or break us as it’s the first serious problem a relatively entitled “west” has had to deal with in our lifetimes and it just seems many are throwing the toys out of the pram rather than actually trying to fix the problem.

Ireland’s far from the worst but when you look around the USA or Europe - conspiracy theories in the main steam, violence, chaotic politics, weak leadership relying on populism to keep power rather than competence, some of the weakest journalism in decades, largely being caused by imploding media as sales as online social platforms squeeze them out, so there’s no money to fund it anymore.

Then throw a pandemic into a system and a society or group of societies, large chunks of which are too self absorbed to respond in a practical way, preferring to hide in online bubbles where they’ve their own reality.

Depressing.

Oh I don’t know. Overly pessimistic there. If this were a dystopian science fiction movie then after a year of lockdowns American and European cities would be burning. A few protests - one or two - is all we got. There was one violent act yesterday, as reprehensible as it was. Then the crowd scattered as police tried to get that guy. Let’s not talk this up.

Coillte_Bhoy · 28-02-2021 4:24pm

Stihl waters wrote: »

Is there any concrete evidence it was any right or left wing involved, it just seemed like a bunch of tracksuited howyas with fcuk all else to do, not that they do anything anyway

Plenty of evidence, NP were handing out leaflets, known far right speakers, organised by a far right group, i posted link few pages back

28-02-2021 4:28pm

Mimon wrote: »

Would you stand there and take one point blank in the face, no you fkn wouldn't, cop to fk on with this ****e.

I take it you arent familar with exmachina? Let me simplify; Gardai do A, Exmachina says they should have done B. They do B, they should have tried C, they end up doing C, they never even considered A because they just assumed C.

28-02-2021 4:32pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As per usual, Law & Order types don't like it when Law & Order is applied to them.

Predictable and sad.

The idea that these guys are law and order types is definitely incorrect. The crowd was indeed white, male and young. A lot of anti vac anti lockdown types I know are female and often older.

It just seems like a rent a mob. In the videos I saw there was no political signs, no religious signs, no political parties and they were marching to the ole ole Irish football song.

It’s people who are tired of lockdowns. Ascribing trumpism, or far rightism or Q anonism or whatever conspiracy of the day is short sighted.

ExMachina1000 · 28-02-2021 4:32pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

I take it you arent familar with exmachina? Let me simplify; Gardai do A, Exmachina says they should have done B. They do B, they should have tried C, they end up doing C, they never even considered A because they just assumed C.

Gardai should have dragged the score that fired the firework in their direction into a cell. Baton charging doesn't discriminate the peaceful protestors from the thugs and peaceful protestors end up getting hit or trampled on. It paints a picture of protest isnt permitted. Russia or China style.

No baton charge seen at recent blanchardstown protest. Where stones and fireworks were also aimed at police.

More political policing from the boys in blue. And I dont mean fg

28-02-2021 4:33pm

Leo calling it what it was, a riot.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40235042.html

“The violence on the streets of Dublin on Saturday was “not a protest, it was a riot” according to Tánaiste Leo Varadkar. In the Sunday Times, some protestors in Dublin yesterday were asked why they were protesting or how it was linked to RTÉ, the state broadcaster.
Those quoted outlined a conspiracy theory that involved babies being killed and harvested for “adrenochrome” which is used to keep RTE celebrities “looking young” while the corpses are buried under the new children’s hospital.
The two claimed the government were “basically paedophiles” and that there were videos explaining this on a website known for hosting far-right speakers and conspiracy theories.
Mr Varadkar said such commentary was “bonkers” and similar to the kind of conspiracy theories heard from far-right supporters in the United States.
He said social media platforms should take down or stop messaging which promotes extreme or illegal activity.”

Stihl waters · 28-02-2021 4:34pm

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Plenty of evidence, NP were handing out leaflets, known far right speakers, organised by a far right group, i posted link few pages back

Thanks, didn't read the thread, have they any real support, I'd imagine plenty scrotes around there would be happy enough to take part in any protests as long as it would let them cause some trouble, there doesn't seem to be s massive support for right or left in Ireland anyway, just a bunch of wasters with too much time on their hands

28-02-2021 4:39pm

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Plenty of evidence, NP were handing out leaflets, known far right speakers, organised by a far right group, i posted link few pages back

You might be right but I was unaware that there were any speakers. None made the news or videos. leafleters can turn up at anything.

Larbre34 · 28-02-2021 4:43pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You might be right but I was unaware that there were any speakers. None made the news or videos. leafleters can turn up at anything.

Particularly things they knew about in advance because they were deeply involved in the planning!

These right wing morons are entirety clueless to the reality that the Guards know absolutely everything they say, do and plan.

nullzero · 28-02-2021 4:46pm

James Brown wrote: »

'Tracksuits howyas' don't tend to get involved in political discourse.

https://www.google.com/search?q=love+ulster+riots&oq=love+ulster+riots+&aqs=chrome..69i57.3579j0j7&client=ms-android-motorola-gfw&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

Almost 15 years to the day.

28-02-2021 4:48pm

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

No baton charge seen at recent blanchardstown protest. Where stones and fireworks were also aimed at police.

Your pants are on fire

28-02-2021 4:49pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

Particularly things they knew about in advance because they were deeply involved in the planning!

These right wing morons are entirety clueless to the reality that the Guards know absolutely everything they say, do and plan.

That doesn’t make it any clearer about the speakers or organisers. I used to turn up at some liberal left protests back in the day and the socialist workers party would be there but they didn’t organise it.

Annasopra · 28-02-2021 4:50pm

Stihl waters wrote: »

Is there any concrete evidence it was any right or left wing involved, it just seemed like a bunch of tracksuited howyas with fcuk all else to do, not that they do anything anyway

Lots of pictures and videos of National Party people and Yellow Vest people and Qanon people so yes the evidence is there its far right.

biko · 28-02-2021 4:51pm

Maybe I've missed something in the articles but have anyone expressed why Garda stopped the demonstration?
Usually demonstrations don't need a permit in Ireland.

28-02-2021 4:53pm

biko wrote: »

Maybe I've missed something in the articles but have anyone expressed why Garda stopped the demonstration?
Usually demonstrations don't need a permit in Ireland.

They obviously had intelligence before the demo that there would be trouble.

That's why there were horses, dogs and public order personal there.

28-02-2021 4:53pm

nullzero wrote: »

https://www.google.com/search?q=love+ulster+riots&oq=love+ulster+riots+&aqs=chrome..69i57.3579j0j7&client=ms-android-motorola-gfw&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

Almost 15 years to the day.

I was there! Shopping. It was intense but not really frightening. We were as a crowd pushed away

But if that level of violence happened yesterday there would be the demand for mass incarceration. The hysteria about the right wing is also an American import. It’s valid there. Not here. I bet most of the protesters yesterday would vote SF if they vote at all.

biko · 28-02-2021 4:56pm

bubblypop wrote: »

They obviously had intelligence before the demo that there would be trouble.

That's why there were horses, dogs and public order personal there.

To prevent protest is unconstitutional so it's strange they would block a protest and risk triggering violence and later court.
As I understand it from the papers, until the block there were no problems at the demo.

Coillte_Bhoy · 28-02-2021 4:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You might be right but I was unaware that there were any speakers. None made the news or videos. leafleters can turn up at anything.

There was yeah and some music too i think

28-02-2021 4:59pm

biko wrote: »

To prevent protest is unconstitutional so it's strange they would block a protest and risk triggering violence.
As I understand it from the papers, until the block there were no problems at the demo.

You misunderstand Biko, on purpose no doubt

They were there because they obviously were aware that violence had been promised.
They don't go all out for just any old demo, but you know that

SuperSean11 · 28-02-2021 5:00pm

biko wrote: »

To prevent protest is unconstitutional so it's strange they would block a protest and risk triggering violence and later court.
As I understand it from the papers, until the block there were no problems at the demo.

The demonstration was the problem, working folk shouldn’t have to negotiate around such a demonstration. Plus carrying a firework might have been a giveaway

28-02-2021 5:08pm

biko wrote: »

To prevent protest is unconstitutional so it's strange they would block a protest and risk triggering violence and later court.
As I understand it from the papers, until the block there were no problems at the demo.

No protest was prevented. Gardai and indeed the council can close public amenities

John Doe1 · 28-02-2021 5:10pm

There is a miniscule Far-right element in this country that actually cares about a person's skin colour, the new Left are the ones who are mainly obsessed with someones skin these days.

This group are the absolute fringe, like I'd say there as many 20 year old twitter leftists with the ability to comprehend nuance as members of this group, its that small!:D

It should also be noted that having a pessimistic view about multiculturalism and wanting to have something like a points based immigration system and filtering out frauds from refugee applicants is not a far right racist position. Its centrist and should be the norm in every country.

Also, if you think Ireland is a racist country, you need to go somewhere like China.

Plenty of racists in West Dublin though...

https://twitter.com/ox_dev/status/1344682108887986179?s=20

Zatoichi · 28-02-2021 5:13pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0228/1199831-dublin-protests/

An Garda Síochána said they regard extreme left factions or groups as those who are intent on using violence for political means.

Minister for Justice Helen McEntee has said that some of those who attended the riot in Dublin yesterday were individuals with previous connections to far-left violent groups or organisations.

Minister McEntee said the clarification from Garda Commissioner Drew Harris was intended to make this clear, as some of those identified were individuals or factions who may have moved to the extreme right from previous allegiances with other organisations on the left.

Previously connected to far-left groups but we received alot of complaints from twitter so they're far-right now. On ya go.

Balls2dWall · 28-02-2021 5:15pm

Reading the replies to the original post proves that Ireland is carpeted wall to wall with gob****es.

biko · 28-02-2021 5:21pm

SuperSean11 wrote: »

The demonstration was the problem, working folk shouldn’t have to negotiate around such a demonstration. Plus carrying a firework might have been a giveaway

But the firework was produced only after the blockade, not before.

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

No protest was prevented. Gardai and indeed the council can close public amenities

By public amenities, do you mean the park? Why didn't Gard just close the park then? There are gates.

John Doe1 · 28-02-2021 5:23pm

Balls2dWall wrote: »

Reading the replies to the original post proves that Ireland is carpeted wall to wall with gob****es.

Great input pal. Welcome to Boards.ie btw

Right wing extremist group behind Dublin Protest say Gardai

Comments