The Grapevine (OFF TOPIC CHAT) Part II

thesandeman · 27-02-2021 1:46am

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Has anyone tried these?
https://jackedup.ie/

Spotted them online about a week ago and was going to buy but appeared in my local greengrocer today so picked up the BBQ and Tex Mex. Never had jackfruit and keep meaning to pick up a can to try so something I was curious about, handy to pick up ones already flavourful but still no idea what else to do with them...'pulled pork' burger and chips maybe with the bbq one.

I got a jackfruit ready meal in Aldi last year and wasn't sure if I liked it or not. I can't remember what it was and I haven't seen them recently.
I do remember it was very filling and had somewhat of a fig texture when it was eaten through the sauce.

Tilikum17 · 27-02-2021 12:43pm

That applewood cheese seems to be back in my local supermarket. If it’s there, it’s probably back in Tesco.

Worztron · 27-02-2021 1:22pm

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Has anyone tried these?
https://jackedup.ie/

Spotted them online about a week ago and was going to buy but appeared in my local greengrocer today so picked up the BBQ and Tex Mex. Never had jackfruit and keep meaning to pick up a can to try so something I was curious about, handy to pick up ones already flavourful but still no idea what else to do with them...'pulled pork' burger and chips maybe with the bbq one.

My favorite vegan pizza is the 'Chicago Town Sticky BBQ Jackfruit Pizza'. It's the first time I ate jackfruit - I love the taste and texture. It's available in Iceland, Tesco, and likely a few more places. I must try those jackedup.ie items. You can also buy jackfruit in tins. Cheers.

Tar.Aldarion · 27-02-2021 4:43pm

Worztron wrote: »

My favorite vegan pizza is the 'Chicago Town Sticky BBQ Jackfruit Pizza'. It's the first time I ate jackfruit - I love the taste and texture. It's available in Iceland, Tesco, and likely a few more places. I must try those jackedup.ie items. You can also buy jackfruit in tins. Cheers.

This pizza is amazing.

Worztron · 27-02-2021 6:41pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

This pizza is amazing.

Absolutely! 🍕

A very close second would be the One Planet Pizza (Hawaiian).

RacoonQueen · 27-02-2021 7:35pm

I was actually thinking of making pizza with it today. But I was too lazy to make a dough and pizza sauce.

I picked up violife shredded mozzerella flavour last week in Dunnes...must check that hasn't gone bad as I opened it and haven't touched it in days. :pac:

Maybe I'll prepare sauce and dough this evening and use if for pizza tomorrow if the cheese still looks ok.

Omar Devone Little · 27-02-2021 7:52pm

I tried to cook jack fruit and I made a balls of the marinade. That Chicago town pizza is lovely though.

28-02-2021 4:10am

Is jackfruit always sweet.
Even burgers made with it I can still taste a residual sweetness.

Thelonious Monk · 03-03-2021 10:52am

Eating meat linked to wide range of illnesses – study

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/eating-meat-linked-to-wide-range-of-illnesses-study-1.4499364

Thank god for lentils

jh79 · 03-03-2021 12:18pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/eating-meat-linked-to-wide-range-of-illnesses-study-1.4499364

Thank god for lentils

The headlines are a bit misleading, BMI was associated with greater risk of illness.

The authors said that having a higher body mass index (BMI) accounted for a “substantial proportion” of the increased risks found among regular meat eaters.

Thelonious Monk · 03-03-2021 12:20pm

Ah I know, I guess I'm just glad to see articles explaining meat isn't the be all and end all in order to be healthy, and in an Irish publication too

jh79 · 03-03-2021 12:42pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Ah I know, I guess I'm just glad to see articles explaining meat isn't the be all and end all in order to be healthy, and in an Irish publication too

As a meat eater, I take comfort in the fact that even taking this study into account once my BMI is in range I can eat as much red meat as I like. In theory, that should translate to 70g a day.

I know studies on nutrition are popular on this forum but the reality is these studies should be viewed with caution. Too many variables to make any real meaningful conclusions.

I think it was the head of the Irish Cancer Society that said that the only real indicators of health outcomes are BMI and wealth. I genuinely don't think anybody, whether vegan or meat eater, should worry about their diet beyond BMI. The human body is quite resilient. Extra nutrition is just wasted.

New Home · 03-03-2021 2:57pm

jh79 wrote: »

As a meat eater, I take comfort in the fact that even taking this study into account once my BMI is in range I can eat as much red meat as I like. In theory, that should translate to 70g a day.

I know studies on nutrition are popular on this forum but the reality is these studies should be viewed with caution. Too many variables to make any real meaningful conclusions.

I think it was the head of the Irish Cancer Society that said that the only real indicators of health outcomes are BMI and wealth. I genuinely don't think anybody, whether vegan or meat eater, should worry about their diet beyond BMI. The human body is quite resilient. Extra nutrition is just wasted.

You could maintain a perfect BMI eating only sugar provided it's in the right amount, but you'd get no other nutrients and your health would most definitely be affected.

Tar.Aldarion · 03-03-2021 3:14pm

There are a lot of factors beyond BMI and wealth, the longest living peoples have often been really poor. Muscular people have a high BMI.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/bmi-is-a-terrible-measure-of-health/

These are a good place to start, commonalities between each of the places where people lived longest:

Family – put ahead of other concerns
Less smoking
Semi-vegetarianism – the majority of food consumed is derived from plants
Constant moderate physical activity – an inseparable part of life
Social engagement – people of all ages are socially active and integrated into their communities
Legumes – commonly consumed

...

Moderate, regular physical activity.
Life purpose.
Stress reduction.
Moderate caloric intake.
Plant-based diet.
Moderate alcohol intake, especially wine.
Engagement in spirituality or religion.
Engagement in family life.
Engagement in social life.

Thelonious Monk · 03-03-2021 3:26pm

I remember seeing something on BBC showing the people who live the longest in the world all seem to have a diet based around pulses in common. Sardinia and parts of Japan were 2 of them.

New Home · 03-03-2021 3:28pm

Fish, more so than pulses (unfortunately for the fish.

).

Thelonious Monk · 03-03-2021 3:33pm

No not fish according to this

Cracking the secret of a longer life

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-42791876

They eat mainly beans, with vegetables, fruit and whole grains

New Home · 03-03-2021 3:47pm

Ah, ok.

It was fish on other documentaries I'd seen (and stuff I'd read, e.g. this one) a while back - they were saying the fish oils might have had something to do with it.

Edit: Sorry, maybe it's staring at me in the face but I can't see it, where do they mention pulses in that article?

igCorcaigh · 03-03-2021 3:55pm

New Home wrote: »

Ah, ok.

It was fish on other documentaries I'd seen (and stuff I'd read, e.g. this one) a while back - they were saying the fish oils might have had something to do with it.

Edit: Sorry, maybe it's staring at me in the face but I can't see it, where do they mention pulses in that article?

Beans are mentioned in the list of bullet points.

Interesting too how they mention eating to 80% full.

gozunda · 03-03-2021 4:07pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/eating-meat-linked-to-wide-range-of-illnesses-study-1.4499364

Thank god for lentils

The lead author behind that study is
Keren Papier.

Keren Papier is a Nutritional Epidemiologist whose research examines the burden and major modifiable risk factors (diet, lifestyle) of malnutrition and non-communicable diseases in different populations. She has a particular interest in cardio-metabolic diseases and in assessing risk factors that affect vulnerable population groups. Her international research settings include: Thailand, Philippines, Australia, and the UK

Interestingly she has also written on the subject of vegan diets

Is a vegan diet healthier? Five reasons why we can't tell for sure

While some research has shown that vegan diets have positive health effects, such as lower risks of heart disease, diabetes and diverticular disease, our recent study also showed that vegans may have a higher risk of fractures, and vegans and vegetarians combined may have a higher risk of haemorrhagic stroke.

https://theconversation.com/amp/is-a-vegan-diet-healthier-five-reasons-why-we-cant-tell-for-sure-152131?__twitter_impression=true

That said from an academic pov - I'd have some reservations about who is funding the current body of research which appears to be largely funded by the Welcome Trust

At the Cancer Epidemiology Unit (CEU), Keren's work forms part of the Wellcome Trust funded LEAP Project (Livestock, Environment and People). For this work, she examines the relationship between animal sourced foods (particularly meat and dairy) and health outcomes

The study is part of an £127m initiative by the Wellcome Trust funding 23 different projects. Of note - the Welcome Trust funded the now largely discredited EAT-Lancet Report.

Part of that is the Wellcome Trust funding another £5 million vegan diet study with research bodies in Norfolk who have joined forces for a £5 million initiative probing the health benefits of a purely plant-based diet.

https://www.businessweekly.co.uk/news/academia-research/wellcome-trust-funds-%C2%A35-million-vegan-diet-study

Thelonious Monk · 03-03-2021 4:10pm

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Beans are mentioned in the list of bullet points.

Interesting too how they mention eating to 80% full.

I suppose your interpretation of full may be different to others! If I ate till I no longer could eat every day I'd be obese in no time.

Tar.Aldarion · 03-03-2021 4:53pm

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Beans are mentioned in the list of bullet points.

Interesting too how they mention eating to 80% full.

Calorific restriction is thought to be good for longevity. Seems so is limiting as much as possible certain amino acids like methionine (lower in veggie sources of protein). A lot of things. "Don't eat too much, mostly plants". have a stress free lifestyle insofar that you can, do moderate exercise and hav a good social/family life.

jh79 · 03-03-2021 4:54pm

New Home wrote: »

You could maintain a perfect BMI eating only sugar provided it's in the right amount, but you'd get no other nutrients and your health would most definitely be affected.

I didn't mean it in such an extreme way.

Basic Irish diet of meat and two veg versus a vegan diet that targets certain foods such as nuts, BMI the same, the outcomes are the same.

I just thing people shouldn't obsess over their diet if their BMI is ok and they are having a bit of everything. Eating lots of kale or nuts or legumes is not going to give you any advantage over the simple meat and two veg approach.

jh79 · 03-03-2021 5:25pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

There are a lot of factors beyond BMI and wealth, the longest living peoples have often been really poor. Muscular people have a high BMI.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/bmi-is-a-terrible-measure-of-health/

These are a good place to start, commonalities between each of the places where people lived longest:

I did say that BMI was the best not that it was perfect. In large scale public health studies BMI is fine. For individuals at the extremes such as low BMI but big belly then not so much but public health research is population based.

All these studies have tons of variables making causation impossible. The correlation between BMI and health outcomes is stronger than a specific diet vs health outcomes.

Tar.Aldarion · 03-03-2021 5:58pm

jh79 wrote: »

I did say that BMI was the best not that it was perfect. In large scale public health studies BMI is fine. For individuals at the extremes such as low BMI but big belly then not so much but public health research is population based.

All these studies have tons of variables making causation impossible. The correlation between BMI and health outcomes is stronger than a specific diet vs health outcomes.

It's ok, I think BF percentage (can be hard to get very accurate) and waist:hip ratio are much better. None of them are perfect but they are a small bit in a picture I guess. The real danger is fat in certain places / being overweight in general yeah.
I believe diet can impact outcomes more than you may be ascribing (even between two non processed diets as above), but what that diet is is a very hard thing to nail down, because health is such a complex topic, not to mention it is massively lobbied.

New Home · 05-03-2021 1:53am

This was in CVPL. Really, though, I thought of all the ones that get eaten, "It's not like they're sentient beings".

gozunda · 05-03-2021 2:18pm

I'm fairly certain the majority do understand that land animals and sea creatures are indeed sentient - that is they are able to perceive or feel things.

The above study deals with the subject of Cephalopod intelligence

There's a fairly good body of existing research on cepleopod intelligence within the wider field of Teuthology.

Cephalopod intelligence is a measure of the cognitive ability of the cephalopod class of molluscs.

Cephalopods are widely regarded as the most intelligent of the invertebrates, and have well developed senses and large brains (larger than those of gastropods).The nervous system of cephalopods is the most complex of the invertebrates and their brain-to-body-mass ratio falls between that of endothermic and ectothermic vertebrates. Captive cephalopods have also been known to climb out of their aquaria, maneuver a distance of the lab floor, enter another aquarium to feed on the crabs, and return to their own aquarium.

Some interesting links on this and legislative protection in the Wikipedia article

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalopod_intelligence

Thelonious Monk · 09-03-2021 11:33am

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/09/chinas-appetite-for-meat-fades-as-vegan-revolution-takes-hold

Fake meat market growing in China, good to hear. I see it's also government policy for them to reduce meat consumption by 50% in future -

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/20/chinas-meat-consumption-climate-change

Good to know such a large part of the global population are at least doing something, I think there would be murder if any politician mentioned eating less meat in Ireland.

gozunda · 09-03-2021 11:57pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/09/chinas-appetite-for-meat-fades-as-vegan-revolution-takes-hold

Fake meat market growing in China, good to hear. I see it's also government policy for them to reduce meat consumption by 50% in future -

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/20/chinas-meat-consumption-climate-change

Good to know such a large part of the global population are at least doing something, I think there would be murder if any politician mentioned eating less meat in Ireland.

Not a huge fan of the Guardian personally due to the practice of funding articles by interest groups.

That aside - the second link (which is approx 4 years old) - appears to be using incorrect data for greenhouse emissions for the year 2016

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/20/chinas-meat-consumption-climate-change

The above article makes the following claim that "planet warming emissions" from animal based agriculture are greater than emissions from the transport sector viz.

Globally, 14.5% of planet-warming emissions emanate from the keeping and eating of cows, chickens, pigs and other animals – more than the emissions from the entire transport sector. ....

That is incorrect and misleading.

Checking those figures for 2016 - greengouse gas emissions from Transport clearly exceeds all forms of agriculture - including animal, horticultural and arable

In 2016 agriculture (that is all types of agriculture including livestock and crop cultivation etc) accounted for 11.8% of all global emissions - with emission from cows and other livestock contributing about half (5.8%) of the 11.8% total.

In 2016 Transport accounted for a total of 15.9% of total global emissions

A separate category from other forms of land use, land-use change and forestry including afforestation and deforestation - contributed 6.5% of greenhouse gas emissions. This landuse change included all forms of landuse change including burning, cropland and forestry.

Souce:
https://www.wri.org/resources/data-visualizations/world-greenhouse-gas-emissions-2016

Perhaps not surprisingly energy consumption remains by far the biggest source of human-caused greenhouse gas emissions worldwide. The energy sector includes transportation, electricity and heat, buildings, manufacturing and construction, fugitive emissions and other fuel combustion. These sectors accounted for some 73% of global greenhouse gas emissions in 2016 and an estimated 77% in 2020.

Tilikum17 · 12-03-2021 10:33am

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/travel/2021/02/the-eight-best-cities-for-vegans/amp

Dublin #4 on the list of best cities for Vegans.

Thelonious Monk · 13-03-2021 12:54am

https://www.tipperarylive.ie/news/farming/615901/anger-and-disgust-in-tipp-as-15-carves-are-dumped-in-drains.html

Calves are really getting a raw deal these days with the exports and this carry on

Tilikum17 · 13-03-2021 8:27am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://www.tipperarylive.ie/news/farming/615901/anger-and-disgust-in-tipp-as-15-carves-are-dumped-in-drains.html

Calves are really getting a raw deal these days with the exports and this carry on

“Irish farmers love their animals”

The rubbish you have to read on here. It’s nothing new.

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/dead-calves-dumped-in-roscommon-bog-585260

PainInTheArse · 14-03-2021 11:33am

Here is some more

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/seven-dead-lambs-dumped-in-kerry-pearl-mussel-river-608042

Mac Taylor · 14-03-2021 10:12pm

Tilikum17 wrote: »

“Irish farmers love their animals”

The rubbish you have to read on here. It’s nothing new.

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/dead-calves-dumped-in-roscommon-bog-585260

Wow.....generalisation at its best. Tarnish every farmer because of the actions of a tiny tiny minority. A person that dumps their stock like that has to have many issues unfortunately. I could trawl the internet for cases of neglect relating to vegans and apply that to all vegans but I’m not hot wired that way. Anyway keep believing what you want.

Tilikum17 · 15-03-2021 12:07am

Mac Taylor wrote: »

Wow.....generalisation at its best. Tarnish every farmer because of the actions of a tiny tiny minority. A person that dumps their stock like that has to have many issues unfortunately. I could trawl the internet for cases of neglect relating to vegans and apply that to all vegans but I’m not hot wired that way. Anyway keep believing what you want.

When someone posts a video on this forum where animals are being treated badly, farmers will come on here saying “but but but that doesn’t happen in Ireland”. The links above show what types of farmers there is in this country no matter how small the minority.....they clearly exist. I’m not saying every farmers does it. God good.

Next time our resident stalker comes on here posting about how well animals are treated on farms in this country, I’ll reply with the links above.

Nekarsulm · 15-03-2021 1:59am

If you have proof those dead animals were treated badly, by all means pist it.
As you may or may not know, all bovines are DNA tested after birth.
So the Dept. Ag. database will pinpoint the dams of those dumped carcass's and the fools who dumped them will be severely dealt with.

Bigbooty · 15-03-2021 10:53am

Well they're dead and thrown in a ditch like trash. I don't know what other proof you'd need for maltreatment. You must have a very unusual definition of bad treatment.. oh wait.

Nekarsulm · 15-03-2021 11:24am

Bigbooty wrote: »

Well they're dead and thrown in a ditch like trash. I don't know what other proof you'd need for maltreatment. You must have a very unusual definition of bad treatment.. oh wait.

Being dead is not evidence of maltreatment, everything dies.
If you know why they died, please enlighten us.
If they died from abuse or neglect, by all means publish your proof.

And you carefully ignored the second part of my post, I see.

Bigbooty · 15-03-2021 12:15pm

Why would I need proof to say that someone doesn't care about their animals because they just dumped them in a ditch? I have never discarded any of the animals in my care like that because I had respect for them. It's an opinion and I can freely state that. I'm not singling out a specific person and slandering them.

Nekarsulm · 15-03-2021 12:35pm

Bigbooty wrote: »

Why would I need proof to say that someone doesn't care about their animals because they just dumped them in a ditch? I have never discarded any of the animals in my care like that because I had respect for them. It's an opinion and I can freely state that. I'm not singling out a specific person and slandering them.

Because you have no proof how they treat their animals whilst they are alive, when they are dead they end up in a can of Whiskers anyway.
It's your opinion, and so be it.
It's my opinion that tarring all livestock keepers by the actions of the few is blinkered reasoning.
The individuals involved in dumping animal carcasses have no regard for the dead animals, their neighbours, nor the environment.
They will be tracked down by DNA sampling and possibly face Court proceedings, and definately face severe financial penalties.

HansKroenke · 15-03-2021 1:31pm

https://plantbasednews.org/lifestyle/health/irish-father-tries-out-veganism-with-help-of-riverdance-star-daughter/

I don't have Instagram but I saw this on PBN. A 67 year old Irish man, father, welder and small time farmer goes solely plant based for 21 days. It seems to have generated a lot of attention with national media coverage and the Instagram page set up for/by him has tens of thousands of followers.

He is being supported by Super Valu and following the Happy Pear recipes. An inspiration for sure and it is great to see an unlikely person embrace a plant based lifestyle. Hopefully he gets on well and inspires more to do it.

Thelonious Monk · 15-03-2021 1:37pm

Fair play to him

Bigbooty · 15-03-2021 1:42pm

Yeah, good on him, although I'd say he's been sent enough free samples to keep him going all year!

Mac Taylor · 15-03-2021 9:50pm

Bigbooty wrote: »

I'm not singling out a specific person and slandering them. .

Correct, you are not singling out a specific person but by default you are targeting and tarnishing all farmers........as I previously stated if I added a link to a story where a vegan was found guilty of malnourishing an infant and inferred all vegans with children were guilty by association. I would imagine you would be pissed of and rightly so.

I do realise that the actions of the few (either misguided or suffering with mental issues) in NO WAY reflect the views or actions the rest of the people who believe in a vegan lifestyle......is it too much to ask for that same level of respect back?

I am not looking for a fight or an argument but I will not lie down either when I am being tarnished in an unfair manner.

If the links were posted (which I have no issue with - it happened) and the question asked, how could this happen in this country.......I suspect you may have got a very different response and possibly an insight into how something awful like that could have happened.

Any person in their normal mind would not think it is ok to dump animals into a stream. (or anywhere for that matter)

I am going to leave it at that........I am aware that this forum comes under a lot of duress from time to time and I do not want to add any more to it.

Thanks.

Thelonious Monk · 16-03-2021 5:22pm

Dutch Minister Schouten wants to end calf import due to health and welfare issues. The Netherlands is the 2nd biggest buyer of Irish calves so this will really impact the trade.
Might be seeing a lot more dumped calves if this happens! Good news though really, live exports are just horrible.

igCorcaigh · 16-03-2021 11:42pm

The endearing Mr Ricketts of Nebraska, USA, is at it again.

'Nebraska declares pro-meat day to rival Colorado's meatless day'

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56419396

Tar.Aldarion · 20-03-2021 3:15pm

Am running a fundraiser for Heartstone animal sanctuary atm. They do such great work with rescued animals.

Details:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CMnSMAvHM3x/

Link:
www.gofundme.com/f/heartstone-animal-sanctuary-x-vli-fundraiser

Thelonious Monk · 25-03-2021 1:13pm

Not sure if I want to watch it because it'll just depress me but a new doc on Netflix about the disaster that is the seafood industry

https://twitter.com/netflix/status/1374832088558399488

Bigbooty · 27-03-2021 8:43am

I watched seaspiracy. It takes a somewhat superficial look at various issues relating to our oceans but I think it does so reasonably well to highlight key issues but as always it's good to do your own due diligence.

I don't think the whole thing on aquaculture is entirely accurate and they bungled that segment somewhat. I find it hard to believe someone is still in business with 50% of salmon dead at any given time. Official figures have it at 1% in Scotland. You can definitely farm oysters in tandem with kelp in a way which benefits the environment for an example of "sustainable" aquaculture.

In parts it seemed rushed like he just couldn't wait until he could tell everyone to go vegan but hopefully it gets people thinking about what's on their plate. I prefer things with a bit more depth though which isn't really the directors style. I must admit that he lost me for a bit when he wheeled out the quackery double team of Dr Greger and Klaper.

Thelonious Monk · 31-03-2021 11:55am

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/live-export-calves-opinion-5392127-Mar2021

Good article here about the horrible practice of live export. Something like 200,000 animals will likely die due to Suez issue too

https://euobserver.com/world/151394

The Grapevine (OFF TOPIC CHAT) Part II

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