Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

Yawlboy · 07-12-2018 1:08pm

susan1992 wrote: »

Royal Air Maroc will join OneWorld. This was announced Wednsday. WIth the new Aer Lingus CEO coming from the alliances and network management at BA, hopefully we hear Aer Lingus joining next!

I doubt it as he is the one the put the current AerClub system in place.

Tenger · 07-12-2018 2:36pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

Not sure British Air Ferries ever made it to the A380 Tenger!

Vickers Viscounts aplenty on the other hand! :-)

Im old but not that old. I initially typed BA then tried to go back and edit to AF. The memory goes so quickly.....

The_Wanderer · 07-12-2018 3:24pm

Who is the new CEO at Aer Lingus?

marno21 · 07-12-2018 3:45pm

The_Wanderer wrote: »

Who is the new CEO at Aer Lingus?

Sean Doyle, currently at BA

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/cork-man-is-new-aer-lingus-ceo-875298.html

WishUWereHere · 07-12-2018 3:58pm

Kcormahs wrote: »

LIS may have frequencies reduced for 2019/2020 due to competition same way it happened on the MAD route.

LIS will have 6x flight daily during the summer when it used to be once/daily aer lingus 5 years ago and still it wasnt full

The a321LR matches the schedules to CDG when arriving from YUL but in March/April all the frequencies will be operated by a320. I wonder if the Aer Space will be rulled out before the arrival of the a321lrs

I was recently in Lisbon on a holiday. Flew out Ryanair, & back with AL. I can think perhaps the outward flight was full because of the upcoming WebSummit conference, but we flew back on the Friday night ( WebSummit was starting the following Monday ) and it was jammers. Maybe times have changed but it is nice to see the flights there & back full. Looking forward to a price war when TAP restart....great excuse to return to a fabulous City.

x567 · 07-12-2018 4:05pm

Tenger wrote: »

Im old but not that old.....

Oi! I've flown with BAF...

Idbatterim · 07-12-2018 4:16pm

they say the a 321LR has a range of 4000 nautical miles, vegas is 4022 according to the below, I take it though, that having to factor in reserves etc, it wont have the range?

https://www.prokerala.com/travel/distance/from-dublin-ireland/to-las-vegas/

goingnowhere · 07-12-2018 4:52pm

No chance with anything resembling a commercial load. Eastbound not a chance due headwinds

The NEO LR won't get much further than Chicago, Minneapolis is already a bit of push

Shn99 · 07-12-2018 5:00pm

A321XLR will have 4700NM, don’t think EI are ordering those though

kevinandrew · 07-12-2018 5:29pm

Shn99 wrote: »

A321XLR will have 4700NM, don’t think EI are ordering those though

They’ve vocally expressed interest in it, wouldn’t be a surprise to see a few ordered.

LXFlyer · 07-12-2018 7:28pm

Tenger wrote: »

Im old but not that old. I initially typed BA then tried to go back and edit to AF. The memory goes so quickly.....

Ahem. Are you calling me old lol???

I flew on a BAF Viscount!!!

07-12-2018 8:33pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

they say the a 321LR has a range of 4000 nautical miles, vegas is 4022 according to the below, I take it though, that having to factor in reserves etc, it wont have the range?

https://www.prokerala.com/travel/distance/from-dublin-ireland/to-las-vegas/

It’s 4305nm to Las Vegas according to GCmapper. Which is a tad more realistic. If Vegas was a realistic option for EI, who would actually know if it was, they would be serving it by now.

Tenger · 08-12-2018 12:11am

Shn99 wrote: »

A321XLR will have 4700NM, don’t think EI are ordering those though

I think focusing on getting the A321LR in operation is an important step before looking too far down the line.

sherology · 08-12-2018 11:38am

I think the he XLR (had it been available) would have been snapped up by EI as it offers another hour+ of flying, hitting more thin routes that could benefit from connections at DUB.

Very interested to see where they add that extra fuel (ACT or as I read somewhere... Tweaks to the center tank/tank area).

Using the tail as is done in the a330 might be another consideration.

Anywho... Good to see EI getting on with there expansion.

sherology · 08-12-2018 3:19pm

*their expansion.

Locker10a · 08-12-2018 3:51pm

How are things looking for next summer for gate/stand capacity?
There’ll clearly be more transatlantic departures and it’s now looking like more Europes now too. I’m guessing the South gates will be used a lot more ?
They weren’t open last summer ?

blackwhite · 08-12-2018 5:59pm

Locker10a wrote: »

How are things looking for next summer for gate/stand capacity?
There’ll clearly be more transatlantic departures and it’s now looking like more Europes now too. I’m guessing the South gates will be used a lot more ?
They weren’t open last summer ?

They opened for start of summer this year. Departed and arrived from them in June this year, and colleagues were commenting on arriving at them a few weeks prior to that

Jamie2k9 · 08-12-2018 6:02pm

December 2017 was the official opening (didn't think it was that far back!)

Ohmeha · 08-12-2018 10:35pm

Locker10a wrote: »

How are things looking for next summer for gate/stand capacity?
There’ll clearly be more transatlantic departures and it’s now looking like more Europes now too. I’m guessing the South gates will be used a lot more ?
They weren’t open last summer ?

I had a AL departure & arrival at the South Gate at the end of August

john boye · 14-12-2018 9:10am

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/aer-lingus-bringing-back-business-class-on-european-flights-1.3730604?mode=amp

8 LRs to be used on Euro routes between TATL. A lot more than I expected.

Locker10a · 14-12-2018 4:31pm

john boye wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/aer-lingus-bringing-back-business-class-on-european-flights-1.3730604?mode=amp

8 LRs to be used on Euro routes between TATL. A lot more than I expected.

I really hope there’s a very very good plan for fitting in all these extra flights in a T2 gates.
It’s so common now to land in Dublin and wait 20 mins + for a gate to become free.

Noxegon · 14-12-2018 4:53pm

Locker10a wrote: »

I really hope there’s a very very good plan for fitting in all these extra flights in a T2 gates.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

cson · 14-12-2018 6:23pm

Could be a big earner for them, it would be the only true J class product in Europe wouldn't it? Aren't the others just blocking off a middle seat?

Is DUB at or near capacity at this point?

JCX BXC · 14-12-2018 6:40pm

cson wrote: »

Could be a big earner for them, it would be the only true J class product in Europe wouldn't it? Aren't the others just blocking off a middle seat?

Is DUB at or near capacity at this point?

They currently operate A330's to Faro and Malaga in the summer with proper J seats. No J service though so it's not a true J class product.

cson · 14-12-2018 7:00pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

They currently operate A330's to Faro and Malaga in the summer with proper J seats. No J service though so it's not a true J class product.

Wouldn't take much, make the drinks complimentary and add a sandwich and you're there. If EI get the timings right to LHR, FRA, AMS then they could easily fill those seats with connecting traffic and O&D from those hubs.

Locker10a · 14-12-2018 7:26pm

cson wrote: »

Wouldn't take much, make the drinks complimentary and add a sandwich and you're there. If EI get the timings right to LHR, FRA, AMS then they could easily fill those seats with connecting traffic and O&D from those hubs.

It states in the article that’s buy on board selection sandwiches will be available complimentary to those in business on Europes

Locker10a · 14-12-2018 7:28pm

cson wrote: »

Is DUB at or near capacity at this point?

Yes, in terms of current approach to air traffic management and gate/stand availability.
There’s potential for growth, but serious organisation is needed and a shake up of ATC.

salmocab · 14-12-2018 7:29pm

I flew to faro a few years back on one of these, was following my mates down so I was on my own and only too happy to pay a fiver for a headset.

Tenger · 14-12-2018 8:10pm

john boye wrote: »

8 LRs to be used on Euro routes between TATL. A lot more than I expected.

I expect it will only be 3-4 routes with 1 return journey a day.
As in in from the US, DUB-FRA-DUB, then back to the US at 4-5pm.
The 8 aircraft will cycle through the A321LR network over the course of a month.

cson wrote: »

Wouldn't take much, make the drinks complimentary and add a sandwich and you're there. If EI get the timings right to LHR, FRA, AMS then they could easily fill those seats with connecting traffic and O&D from those hubs.

Locker10a wrote: »

It states in the article that’s buy on board selection sandwiches will be available complimentary to those in business on Europes

Thats good to hear. If not "true J Class" then definitely better than empty middle seat.
A issue could be baggage stowage at the front of the A321LR (my last flight on an A320 had row 1 and 2 stowing above me in row 5) and a dearth of food options if the first 12-16 get dibs?

Associated interview with current EI CEO;
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/aer-lingus-chief-prepares-to-fly-solo-in-the-new-year-1.3730472

I dont get the story he tells of the TA business almost for the axe in 2007-08. It merely took a lining up of their shorthaul network to feed into their TA to make it profitable in 2010. As the CFO surely he must shoulder some of the responsibly for the TA operation 'bleeding red ink'?

kevinandrew · 14-12-2018 10:56pm

It was mainly the axing of unprofitable routes that helped reduce the red ink on long haul. We said goodbye to routes like SFO, LAX and IAD and began to see the airline refocus on “bread and butter” east coast cities with Orlando hanging on as the “holiday” route. This amputation of the network simply bought Aer Lingus enough time to create a sustainable business plan for the long haul side of the business. I think recollection of what happened is very much a shortened version for the interview and his own personal truth. When Mueller arrived he questioned everything, considering the state of the organisation I can totally believe long haul could have been up for the chop.

Luckily a long term plan was agreed;

A key component of the plan was finally linking short haul to long haul, for too long the two parts of the business acted as individual airlines and Mueller set about bringing them together once the finances of the overall business had stabilised. The birth of Aer Lingus Regional and the move into Dublin T2 all played a part in this.

Another component was improved product. The long haul product had become weak after a decade of neglect, it had gained a reputation for being lacklustre at best. The all singing, all dancing business class and introduction of WiFi, pre order meals and new lounges did wonders for the airline.

Finally, the brand image of the airline was worked on. Naturally, news of the improved product travelled well and was followed by an overall mini refresh with ‘Smart Flies Aer Lingus’ launches. New visuals, a clearer message and a younger vibe all helped long haul, and Aer Lingus in general, to where it is now.

This story has lasted about 8 years, chapters include; near bankruptcy, major restructure, recovery, new product, long haul growth and current success. It seems the next chapter, or even a new story, is about to begin at Aer Lingus with the A321LR, more A330s, further growth, deeper integration across the network and of course a new brand refresh.

Tenger · 14-12-2018 11:44pm

I would mostly agree. I was out of the direct loop at the time but the word from my EI mates was the routes axed weren't 'unprofitable' but that there was more revenue to be gained from going double daily on JFK/BOS/ORD.

A mate actually met the head of EI in the US one time, that guy told the story of the first all department meeting with Mueller. He said that when he sat down no-one sat beside him, indicating that he was the 'bold' child in the room.

I do honestly think that the linking of short haul to long haul was a no brainer. In the Mannion years they were run as separate parts of the business. Which seemed like madness to me. I had been on EI Commuter when I was there and I was glad to see the return of it (in the guise of EI regional) as I knew how much it was important to connecting traffic back in the late 90s. (a different era of course)

California Dreamer · 14-12-2018 11:44pm

kevinandrew wrote: »

The long haul product had become weak after a decade of neglect, it had gained a reputation for being lacklustre at best. The all singing, all dancing business class and introduction of WiFi, pre order meals and new lounges did wonders for the airline.

Hence why we STILL get questions about will I had PTV's and are the seats in business the same angled lie flat?

Negative press is far harder to get away from.

They have worked hard to fix it but then they don't help themselves on silly things.

sandbelter · 15-12-2018 1:36am

Tenger wrote: »

I dont get the story he tells of the TA business almost for the axe in 2007-08. It merely took a lining up of their shorthaul network to feed into their TA to make it profitable in 2010. As the CFO surely he must shoulder some of the responsibly for the TA operation 'bleeding red ink'?

Maybe the Shannon stopover was more damaging than we knew. Afterall the stopover only ceased completely in April 2008.

sherology · 15-12-2018 3:10pm

Will the new Thompson Vantage SOLO be used as the business seat for the LRs or the STD. vantage seats we see on the a330/757? Seems like the solo is designed specifically for single aisle and is pretty much the same/similar seat.

https://www.thompsonaero.com/seating-range/vantagesolo/

Locker10a · 15-12-2018 5:54pm

sherology wrote: »

Will the new Thompson Vantage SOLO be used as the business seat for the LRs or the STD. vantage seats we see on the a330/757? Seems like the solo is designed specifically for single aisle and is pretty much the same/similar seat.

https://www.thompsonaero.com/seating-range/vantagesolo/

Good question, I’m assuming they’ll stick to the same, they work on the 757 and I may be wrong but I think the a321 cabin is the same width or even marginally wider?
It will be interesting to see if they will go with the same seats for economy? Considering they also intend to use these planes on short haul, and they won’t ever be used for very long flights might they consider a “leather” option which would be easier to clean and maintain given the goal of high utilisation of these aircraft.

goingnowhere · 15-12-2018 6:09pm

It wouldn't be a surprise if the biz seats in the 757's are not ripped out and installed in the later A321 LR's

kevinandrew · 15-12-2018 9:00pm

The A321LR seat map currently shows a near identical layout to the 757 so I’d assume it’s the same seat unless there’s plans to change.

The ‘Vantage Solo’ seat would be quite a change in terms of configuration compared to the A330 offering.

HTCOne · 17-12-2018 1:03pm

The EI Biz seats are the same ones Jetblue uses for Mint on their A321s, only difference is the EI ones (on the 330s at least) have more storage.

joeysoap · 17-12-2018 1:32pm

Locker10a wrote: »

Yes, in terms of current approach to air traffic management and gate/stand availability.
There’s potential for growth, but serious organisation is needed and a shake up of ATC.

This little video suggests that some gates are tight and not designed for aircraft using them. (Mostly AL ?)

https://youtu.be/8HTH7Er2nfA

Jamie2k9 · 18-12-2018 12:50am

The ASL Boeing plans dropped anyone confirm?

Locker10a · 18-12-2018 1:32am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The ASL Boeing plans dropped anyone confirm?

Yes apparently they are. ASL are recruiting for their summer operation out of BHD only as per last summer but nothing mentioned for anything further than that.

Tenger · 18-12-2018 8:04pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The ASL Boeing plans dropped anyone confirm?

Yup. The 'future fleet' slide from the EI presentaton showed 1 B757 gone for Summer 2019, with the other 3 gone in summer 2020. (replaced by A321LR with expansion in 2021 and 2022)

I see that EI are looking for first officiers again. I expect there is a mad rush to boost the numbers in advance of up to 14 A321LR over the next 3 years.

Locker10a · 18-12-2018 11:22pm

Tenger wrote: »

Yup. The 'future fleet' slide from the EI presentaton showed 1 B757 gone for Summer 2019, with the other 3 gone in summer 2020. (replaced by A321LR with expansion in 2021 and 2022)

I see that EI are looking for first officiers again. I expect there is a mad rush to boost the numbers in advance of up to 14 A321LR over the next 3 years.

Sorry I thought this was in relation to the rumoured 737 bucket and spade flights to boost summer capacity

goingnowhere · 19-12-2018 12:25am

Well if you needed a jet the ASL 757 might fit the bucket and spade ops requirement once released when the A321 appears.

kevinandrew · 19-12-2018 3:13am

goingnowhere wrote: »

Well if you needed a jet the ASL 757 might fit the bucket and spade ops requirement once released when the A321 appears.

The cost of operating the 757 in its current configuration on European sectors would probabaly be too high for ASL to consider it worthwhile. A reconfiguration would be needed to improve CASM but would probably result in overcapacity for Aer Lingus’ requirements.

Tenger · 19-12-2018 7:30am

Locker10a wrote: »

Sorry I thought this was in relation to the rumoured 737 bucket and spade flights to boost summer capacity

Could well be. Im just guessing the recruitment is the ramp up for the new aircraft. Essentially the current ASL B757 flightcrew have to be replaced by Aer Lingus crew.

Jamie2k9 · 19-12-2018 2:24pm

I was referring to the B737s, every year they plan to grow short haul and every year it never happens.

basill · 19-12-2018 2:48pm

Apples and oranges folks. My understanding is that there were concerns with the quality and reliability of the bucket and spade operators and its impact on the brand based on past performance. If it has been decided to keep this work in house then its probably due to the above and/or possible pricing issues.

The hiring of new pilots is to cover:-
- single digit retirements/resignations of captains
- backfill requirement of FOs that are shifting to the A330 from short haul
- replenish those FOs that have resigned over past year
- requirement for crew on NEOs
- any increase in short haul network

Jamie2k9 · 19-12-2018 9:17pm

basill wrote: »

Apples and oranges folks. My understanding is that there were concerns with the quality and reliability of the bucket and spade operators and its impact on the brand based on past performance. If it has been decided to keep this work in house then its probably due to the above and/or possible pricing issues.

The hiring of new pilots is to cover:-
- single digit retirements/resignations of captains
- backfill requirement of FOs that are shifting to the A330 from short haul
- replenish those FOs that have resigned over past year
- requirement for crew on NEOs
- any increase in short haul network

Third party can't do anymore damage than in house does/continues to do!

duskyjoe · 20-12-2018 1:00am

Karl, all the 330 in the EIN fleet are fitted with CF6-80E1A4’s. End.

Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

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