Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

kevinandrew

It would be nice to get some official confirmation on the A350 to stop this speculation once and for all. 

In my view it's obvious the A350 order is gone (for now) and as IAG has zero A330neos on order we can rule those out as well. I think Aer Lingus will receive A350s eventually but only once the network has matured enough and the DUB/HUB is in full swing, JFK/BOS/ORD could all handle it and SFO/LAX are future contenders, SFO in particular due to its success.  

The short to medium term plan appears to be A333s for capacity and upgauges while the A321s will be used for frequency increases and entry into new markets.

Noxegon

goingnowhere wrote: »

Lots of Amazon and Microsoft folks in Ireland, HQ is in SEA

Unless something has changed, Amazon people travel economy.

Locker10a

Noxegon wrote: »

goingnowhere wrote: »

Lots of Amazon and Microsoft folks in Ireland, HQ is in SEA

Unless something has changed, Amazon people travel economy.

Yeah, that doesn’t surprise me...... but still, they have committed to block booking several seats, be it economy, on flights each week as frequently happen between these big companies and airlines

Tenger

Aircraft mad 1 wrote: »

I seen on internet last night someone said that the a350 order have been change for a330neos��

But my wife works in aerlingus and Said that aerlingus hope to have one a350
Next year ��

The assumption was that EI might change from A350 to NEO. However they are happy with the mature A330, it suits their needs and has lower capital costs and a shorter backlog than the NEO or A350.

No way EI would take delivery of a single A350 (or any other type) Their initial plan had the 1st A350 to be delivered in 2018, (this date has since been removed from the Airbus website) perhaps your missus is thinking of the older announcements about it?
Having a single airframe is not a good idea for crewing, spares or dealing with operational disruptions.

goingnowhere

Noxegon wrote: »

Unless something has changed, Amazon people travel economy.

280 odd economy seats to fill

zetalambda

Van.Bosch wrote: »

I didn’t specifically mean by gaining the Cork passenger. More that they could earn more by adding for example a DUBJFK rotation attracting pax from transfers and the DUB catchment area than ORKJFK.

You’re right in that it may mean losing the ORK pax via LHR etc. A selerate point but I’d love to know how a connection friendly timed DUBORK route would do.

It does seem strange that you can fly Kerry to Dublin and Cork to smaller UK cities like Newcastle, Bristol and Southhampton but not to Dublin. However, even if Aerlingus layed on a Gulfstream G650, I'd still prefer to fly long haul via one of the European hubs and if you're flying east, it will more than likely be significantly cheaper from London, Paris or Amsterdam.

marno21

zetalambda wrote: »

It does seem strange that you can fly Kerry to Dublin and Cork to smaller UK cities like Newcastle, Bristol and Southhampton but not to Dublin. However, even if Aerlingus layed on a Gulfstream G650, I'd still prefer to fly long haul via one of the European hubs and if you're flying east, it will more than likely be significantly cheaper from London, Paris or Amsterdam.

As I've said before, I think a Dublin-Cork flight would work.

Dublin Airport is 280km from Cork city, and Shannon may be closer but there's no reliable or stress free way of getting from Cork to Shannon. Surely there's a market for an Embraer 175 etc to connect the two with suitably timed flights to meet the transatlantic flights.

It may affect LHR/CDG/AMS numbers which may be the reason it hasn't been considered, but perhaps it could be considered in the scope of growing pax numbers at the EI hub in Dublin

kub

Why would I bother going up to Cork airport and have to be there 2 hours and put up with all the hassle before the plane even takes off for Dublin?
In 2 hours I would be on the outskirts of Dublin if I just drove to Dublin.
That is probably why there is no flight.

Idbatterim

you dont have to be there two hours in advance, you can be there an hour in advance most likely , particularly if cork has fasttrack

Locker10a

Idbatterim wrote: »

you dont have to be there two hours in advance, you can be there an hour in advance most likely , particularly if cork has fasttrack

Yeah check in for Domestic flights used to close just 30 mins before departure, not sure if this change but they allowed you show up pretty late for this very convenience

zetalambda

marno21 wrote: »

As I've said before, I think a Dublin-Cork flight would work.

Or perhaps EI could fly planes from where their customers live and at the same time reduce congestion at Dublin. Currently, they fly Cork to Munich once a week and Dublin to Munich daily. The first weekly flight next February is €458 from Cork and €95 from Dublin on the same day with all the weekday flights that week from Dublin at the base fare of €49. What will inevitably happen is people from Munster and Cork predominantly will end up buying up the tickets that would fill a couple of those flights from Dublin. Why not drop one of the mid week flights from Dublin and run it from Cork instead? Lack of competition on that route from Cork and competition on that route from Dublin and a lack of will from management is probably the answer. And it's similar situation on most European routes they fly out of Dublin and Cork. The yield on some of the Cork flights must be really sweet. In fact, I'd say many of the Cork flights subsidize the Dublin ones.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Price-difference-between-Aer-Lingus-flights-from-Cork-and-Dublin-raised-in-The-Seanad-4ed0b561-f6fc-4a05-b018-4082dfaf1e9d-ds

goingnowhere

But what the load factor? Dublin Munich tends to be very well loaded and rarely would I pay less than 100 euro each way unless booked way in advance

The morning Dublin Munich provides a long haul connection in both directions which can be up to 1/3 of passengers

Plus EI is in competition on Dublin Munich with Lufthansa

If there was the business Lufthansa would be crawling all over it in Cork

Locker10a

zetalambda wrote: »

marno21 wrote: »

As I've said before, I think a Dublin-Cork flight would work.

Or perhaps EI could fly planes from where their customers live and at the same time reduce congestion at Dublin. Currently, they fly Cork to Munich once a week and Dublin to Munich daily. The first weekly flight next February is €458 from Cork and €95 from Dublin on the same day with all the weekday flights that week from Dublin at the base fare of €49. What will inevitably happen is people from Munster and Cork predominantly will end up buying up the tickets that would fill a couple of those flights from Dublin. Why not drop one of the mid week flights from Dublin and run it from Cork instead? Lack of competition on that route from Cork and competition on that route from Dublin and a lack of will from management is probably the answer. And it's similar situation on most European routes they fly out of Dublin and Cork. The yield on some of the Cork flights must be really sweet. In fact, I'd say many of the Cork flights subsidize the Dublin ones.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Price-difference-between-Aer-Lingus-flights-from-Cork-and-Dublin-raised-in-The-Seanad-4ed0b561-f6fc-4a05-b018-4082dfaf1e9d-ds

Stinks of the old political retort “the national airline should do the things we want” irregardless of profitability. Unfortunately Aer Lingus are in town for one reason, and that’s profit, and they’ll do what they know makes the most money. People pay more for convenience and businesses know this. So where they know they can get enough people to pay a premium for a service then they will do that as long as it makes money.

JCX BXC

Aer Lingus aren't state owned, they can charge what they like, like all other airlines do.

kevinandrew

zetalambda wrote: »

marno21 wrote: »

As I've said before, I think a Dublin-Cork flight would work.

Or perhaps EI could fly planes from where their customers live and at the same time reduce congestion at Dublin. Currently, they fly Cork to Munich once a week and Dublin to Munich daily. The first weekly flight next February is €458 from Cork and €95 from Dublin on the same day with all the weekday flights that week from Dublin at the base fare of €49. What will inevitably happen is people from Munster and Cork predominantly will end up buying up the tickets that would fill a couple of those flights from Dublin. Why not drop one of the mid week flights from Dublin and run it from Cork instead? Lack of competition on that route from Cork and competition on that route from Dublin and a lack of will from management is probably the answer. And it's similar situation on most European routes they fly out of Dublin and Cork. The yield on some of the Cork flights must be really sweet. In fact, I'd say many of the Cork flights subsidize the Dublin ones.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Price-difference-between-Aer-Lingus-flights-from-Cork-and-Dublin-raised-in-The-Seanad-4ed0b561-f6fc-4a05-b018-4082dfaf1e9d-ds

Errrm, rumour has it Cork-Munich could be getting the axe anyway, no flights after March. Dusseldorf apparently survives.

So talk of yields being sweet at Cork and even subsidising Dublin routes is pure fantasy, Cork's track record says otherwise. 

The very expensive fares on the MUC route in the new year may indicate its demise, airlines usually increase fares to astronomical levels before they swing the axe. A fairer comparison would be Paris, both appear similarly priced from Dublin and Cork.

zetalambda

goingnowhere wrote: »

But what the load factor? Dublin Munich tends to be very well loaded and rarely would I pay less than 100 euro each way unless booked way in advance

The morning Dublin Munich provides a long haul connection in both directions which can be up to 1/3 of passengers

Plus EI is in competition on Dublin Munich with Lufthansa

If there was the business Lufthansa would be crawling all over it in Cork

Corks one flight to Munich on Saturday is sold out. Still plenty of seats left on all the Dublin flights for the next week.

That's what I mean about competition. There's none in Cork for that route so why would they bother increasing frequency when they know people have no option but to travel to Dublin.

Lufthansa just bought 81 planes from air Berlin and are planning an expansion in the Irish market. Just watch how fast Aerlingus adds routes and increases frequency in Cork if another airline comes in and competes with them.

Locker10a wrote: »

Stinks of the old political retort “the national airline should do the things we want” irregardless of profitability. Unfortunately Aer Lingus are in town for one reason, and that’s profit, and they’ll do what they know makes the most money. People pay more for convenience and businesses know this. So where they know they can get enough people to pay a premium for a service then they will do that as long as it makes money.

I don't think the issue is profitability where Cork is concerned as their own website shows flights on routes out of Cork sold out one, two and three months from now with plenty of availability for the same routes out of Dublin. It's more likely a lack of will on the part of management coupled with the obsession to make Dublin this big international hub!

zetalambda

Cork to Amsterdam sold out half of July and half of August 2018 and almost fully sold out September.

Dublin to Amsterdam flights available everyday July and everyday August 2018 and for most of September.

I rest my case

orionm_73

Where are you getting your information on passenger booking levels for the flights?

zetalambda

Aer Lingus

goingnowhere

zetalambda wrote: »

Cork to Amsterdam sold out half of July and half of August 2018 and almost fully sold out September.

Dublin to Amsterdam flights available everyday July and everyday August 2018 and for most of September.

I rest my case

Also have KLM and Ryanair slugging it out DUB-AMS which changes the dynamics

Unlikely Cork AMS sold out as a block of seats are 'owned' by KLM and are not available from Aer Lingus

L1011

zetalambda wrote: »

Cork to Amsterdam sold out half of July and half of August 2018 and almost fully sold out September.

Dublin to Amsterdam flights available everyday July and everyday August 2018 and for most of September.

I rest my case

Dublin-Amsterdam is a compettition bloodbath currently. This happens occasionally - Dublin-Copenhagen two winters ago was even worse with a fraction of the load and FOUR carriers.

Locker10a

zetalambda wrote: »

Cork to Amsterdam sold out half of July and half of August 2018 and almost fully sold out September.

Dublin to Amsterdam flights available everyday July and everyday August 2018 and for most of September.

I rest my case

All this tells us is ORK-AMS performs very well. Doesn’t reflect any other route from Cork, Dublin or Timbuktu.
You couldn’t compare AMS to MUC, the AMS route is packed with KLM passengers among others catching global connections.

orionm_73

zetalambda wrote: »

Aer Lingus

Are you doing dummy bookings for July-Sept 2018? A sold out indication just means the fares or schedule haven’t been finalised.

Fattes

zetalambda wrote: »

Cork to Amsterdam sold out half of July and half of August 2018 and almost fully sold out September.

Dublin to Amsterdam flights available everyday July and everyday August 2018 and for most of September.

I rest my case

Reopen it there are 12-14 flights from Dub-Amsterdam tomorrow with 3 airlines, load factors mean nothing unless you have equvelance between the airports you are serving.

adam88

Just a query. Why would the 787 not be suitable for aer lingus.

Why are they going for 321

I know a lot of ye are probably shaking yere heads at me rite now.

Also is the 787 comparable to the a330.

faoiarvok

adam88 wrote: »

Just a query. Why would the 787 not be suitable for aer lingus.

Why are they going for 321

I know a lot of ye are probably shaking yere heads at me rite now.

Also is the 787 comparable to the a330.

They operate an all Airbus fleet, keeps maintenance and crew training very simple.

Tenger

EI made their wide body order back in 2006 (?), at that point they needed to replace older A330s and increase the fleet. They were for a split order of A330and A350. As mentioned above at this point EI were an all Airbus fleet.
B787-8 is smaller than the A330, is cheaper and optimized for long haul. It would have meant a drop in their capacity just when they were expecting to grow.
The B787 was designed to replace the B767, and create new city pairs thus bypassing major hubs. (The A380 is a mega hub aircraft) The A330 was designed to compete against the B767 and B777-200.
The -10 is similar sized to an A330, but was only launched officially in 2013 (wiki info)
B787 order backlogs may have been a factor too, even before their engine delivery issues and battery problems.

The A321LR is being ordered as a supplement to the A330 rather than to supplant it. EI used the B757 lease operation to test the efficiencies of the smaller type to launch routes, build demand and/or add capacity to existing non daily A330 routes.


A lot of people consider the B787 to be a great possible aircraft for Aer Lingus, however I think the timings weren’t right. It came too late for their need for new and replacement aircraft, and Airbus had improved the A330. They had already solidified to Airbus only, and with the B787 being brand new a sweetener deal wasnt going to happen.
The current healthy position of EI is due to its use of the A330 on solid routes with very high utilization. And with 2 variants in place they have been able to juggle capacity on their network while still allowing them to go back to US West Coast.

orionm_73

It’s a question a lot of people I’m sure are asking.
The A321LR will replace the B757 in its “pathfinder” role, exploring & developing new routes, and servicing existing routes where demand is less than the capacity of the A330/B787.

Aer Lingus is already an A330 operator, any lower operating costs of the B787 (if any) would be countered by having a mixed fleet for what is still a small long haul fleet.

adam88

orionm_73 wrote: »

It’s a question a lot of people I’m sure are asking.
The A321LR will replace the B757 in its “pathfinder” role, exploring & developing new routes, and servicing existing routes where demand is less than the capacity of the A330/B787.

Aer Lingus is already an A330 operator, any lower operating costs of the B787 (if any) would be countered by having a mixed fleet for what is still a small long haul fleet.

Firstly. Many thanks to you and the above posters for giving very detailed answers.

What's range difference between 757 and the 321lr. I know wiki has these but there's so many variances. I'm not that clued up. Apologies if I'm annoying ye guys

Tenger

adam88 wrote: »

.........
What's range difference between 757 and the 321lr. I know wiki has these but there's so many variances. I'm not that clued up. Apologies if I'm annoying ye guys

From an Airbus PR stance the A321LR has greater range than the B757, 4000km vs 3850km. (According to wiki the longest B757 is 7410km but with reduced payload) The EI setup of 12/160 seats is similar to other carriers and they are planning their A321LR with a cabin of under 200. (16/170?)

As the A321LR is still unproven this is all just design and planning, not that their is much left to intuition these in aircraft design.