I am new to this country and want to know why everyone is so rude.

maninasia · 22-01-2020 12:39pm

tuxy wrote: »

I've lived outside of Ireland but don't have as much experience as many of my friend but from what I hear this is a thing that is common in many countries.

Yea it is common to almost all countries.
You'll struggle as a foreigner to create deep friendships with locals.

dontpanic · 22-01-2020 12:41pm

looksee wrote: »

I don't think there is a lot of hope for the OP, he is way too blinkered, unimaginative and unaware to live outside his own bubble.

Nah I don't think that's fair. He's already conceded only in the space of this thread that he is learning about different cultural communication.

There certainly is hope, but it's worth noting to the OP that very well mannered conversation "Hello Sir, how are you today", IMO, is generally reserved for formal or business situations. I think the "friendliness" of the Irish is down to how casual we are when speaking to a total stranger.

I suspect this will also explain the casual racism (or perhaps xenophobia would be a more accurate term?). In my experience, Irish humour/ sarcasm/ banter which tends to be insulting really doesn't translate well at all to non Irish. This is something I myself need to be aware of when travelling so as not to get misunderstood.

As another poster said, I think it's culture shock and I think it will just take some time.

CrankyHaus · 22-01-2020 12:50pm

maninasia wrote: »

No we don't.
Middle class is just middle class.
How is the middle class privileged in Ireland, for one they pay a shocking amount of tax and get very few benefits for it .

Yeah I'm not talking about the reality, but the perception.
Go into a pub, or anywhere in Ireland, and tell people that you're middle class and enjoy the reaction.
For many if not most people here it carries negative overtones of poshness and snobbery, which we absorbed from British culture with it's intense class consciousness.

In the US the term middle-class generally doesn't have these negative overtones.

tuxy · 22-01-2020 12:54pm

dontpanic wrote: »

I suspect this will also explain the casual racism (or perhaps xenophobia would be a more accurate term?). In my experience, Irish humour/ sarcasm/ banter which tends to be insulting really doesn't translate well at all to non Irish. This is something I myself need to be aware of when travelling so as not to get misunderstood.

Yes, this is mostly harmless but can sometimes go a bit far if the Irish person realises the foreigner just doesn't get it so they push it more for their own amusement. This can be a bit rude but it's not in anyway sinister.

looksee · 22-01-2020 12:55pm

dontpanic wrote: »

Nah I don't think that's fair. He's already conceded only in the space of this thread that he is learning about different cultural communication.

Yes he is, but he is learning it in a distant, theoretical way, something that has to be taken on board by him and dealt with as a foreign and therefore incorrect concept.

Earthsnotflat · 22-01-2020 12:55pm

Hi New to Ireland,
I used to be new too, many years ago, it's hard to be foreigner in general, everywhere. I'd say give Ireland a chance, you'll get to know people and maybe change your opinion. Maybe some things you take as rudeness are really not, but cultural differences. Like talking/ behaving more openly vs hiding your true thoughts, emotions etc. so many different cultural norms. There are people from many different cultures in Ireland, also different generations engage in different way with people they don't know, there are many factors. Personal circumstances are colouring our view of others too. People who don't know you neither hate or love you, we're all busy with our lives. And it's not strangers job to make anyone's day, even if it sounds brutal. Life is not tv series, but, in general, Irish people are very nice and warm and helpful, in my opinion, but as in every culture, they need to know you a bit closer, it's human nature not to trust strangers.

New to Ireland · 22-01-2020 12:58pm

maninasia wrote: »

I'm not getting the connection to Ahascragh, maybe I'm missing something ?

I have experience of culture shock and what the OP is describing are the CLASSIC symptoms of culture shock.

He reminds me of myself a year into a move to a foreign country with vastly different culture.

Look it up !

https://www.communicaid.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Culture-Shock.jpg

Symptoms of Culture Shock
Extreme homesickness.
Feelings of helplessness/dependency.
Disorientation and isolation.
Depression and sadness.
Hyper-irritability, may include inappropriate anger and hostility.
Sleep and eating disturbances (too little or too much)
Excessive critical reactions to host culture/stereotyping.

This is great thanks @maninasia

tuxy · 22-01-2020 1:00pm

Alun wrote: »

There's a whiff of a previous banned poster off his posting style, but I can't put my finger on it. He quotes really long, and helpful posts with a simple one liner, and then quotes shorter posts with yet another long rambling post about how rude everybody is. I just recall another similar thread thst followed a similar pattern.

New to Ireland wrote: »

This is great thanks @maninasia

dontpanic · 22-01-2020 1:00pm

looksee wrote: »

Yes he is, but he is learning it in a distant, theoretical way, something that has to be taken on board by him and dealt with as a foreign and therefore incorrect concept.

Which is completely and absolutely fine. People learn in their own ways and in their own time. Some like to understand the theory first, and other like to jump in straight away.

I'd argue that understanding the how and why the culture is the way it is would be more helpful in the scenario than blind trial and error

New to Ireland · 22-01-2020 1:02pm

5uspect wrote: »

My PhD supervisor once told an American collaborator we were working with to ‘Mind himself’ when ending a call. Some years later when working for that American I had to explain to him how it wasn’t rude or a threat to his personal safety.

On other occasions I’ve found myself ‘translating’ for visiting European students who are asking technicians for something. We had a wonderful machinist from darkest Tipp who was incomprehensible to your typical french intern. For example a student once came in with a drawing for something to be made and the reply was along the lines of, “please god, sure leave it up there and I’ll give it a shake’.

As a nation we often speak a very different form of english to what most other do. In the lens of the hyper false American approach it can come across as rude.

Thank you, agree. I found mind yourself threatening also, you are onto it at least.

begbysback · 22-01-2020 1:02pm

It’s a myth that Irish people are friendly, most likely this understanding came from foreign countries we migrated too, they misunderstood us, we are not genuinely friendly, when we are living in other countries then we are friendly for a reason, which is to survive abroad.

Basically, we are lickarses.

tuxy · 22-01-2020 1:02pm

dontpanic wrote: »

Which is completely and absolutely fine. People learn in their own ways and in their own time. Some like to understand the theory first, and other like to jump in straight away.

And some like to completely avoid questions about where they are from and where they are now living. Things that are essential to giving good advice on a matter such as this.

dontpanic · 22-01-2020 1:06pm

tuxy wrote: »

And some like to completely avoid questions about where they are from and where they are now living. Things that are essential to giving good advice on a matter such as this.

Yes it would have been helpful to know to give more specific advice but I suspect had he told us this thread would have focussed more on the country he's from, rather than the country he is in.

Wherever he is from, learning to communicate with the Irish is going be like learning a new language.

maninasia · 22-01-2020 1:09pm

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Yeah I'm not talking about the reality, but the perception.
Go into a pub, or anywhere in Ireland, and tell people that you're middle class and enjoy the reaction.
For many if not most people here it carries negative overtones of poshness and snobbery, which we absorbed from British culture with it's intense class consciousness.

In the US the term middle-class generally doesn't have these negative overtones.

All the middle class people I know would never describe themselves as working class. I don't come from a particularly rich area or background either. They'd probably laugh if you said you were working class or vice versa as they know it's simply not true.

Seems like there's a lot more diversity out there than you think .

tuxy · 22-01-2020 1:10pm

dontpanic wrote: »

Yes it would have been helpful to know to give more specific advice but I suspect had he told us this thread would have focussed more on the country he's from, rather than the country he is in.

I suspect that this may be correct but I don't see the downside in saying which county they moved to or even if it was rural or urban.

22-01-2020 1:15pm

If you look at the Irish fans that travel for the Irish national team, Rugby team, Conor McGregor fights etc, we generally have a great reputation as fans. Good people that don't cause much trouble.
I think thats a good representation of Irish people.

Obviously its more difficult to be that way day to day. We all have jobs, commutes etc.

Then you have the junkies and scumbags bringing us all down.

Not to mention that globalization for all its benefits, it has an impact on our identity.

tuxy · 22-01-2020 1:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Then you have the junkies and scumbags bringing us all down.

Not to mention that globalization for all its benefits, it has an impact on our identity.

Is there a modern western country that does not have these issues?

Peatys · 22-01-2020 1:27pm

How do i find post 159?
Start counting from post 1?

tuxy · 22-01-2020 1:29pm

Peatys wrote: »

How do i find post 159?
Start counting from post 1?

Posts are numbered on the top right. It takes a few clicks to get the right page.

CrankyHaus · 22-01-2020 1:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If you look at the Irish fans that travel for the Irish national team, Rugby team,

True, I've seen foreigners posting various clips of Irish fans at the Euros elsewhere on the internet, acompanied by a lot of compliments.

Deleted User wrote: »

Conor McGregor fights

WHAT?

dontpanic · 22-01-2020 1:33pm

tuxy wrote: »

I suspect that this may be correct but I don't see the downside in saying which county they moved to or even if it was rural or urban.

That's very true and it does make a difference. I must say though this post of rural vs. urban brought up the memory of when i ended up down in a tiny village down the country for a birthday and I was completely and utterly baffled at the first two hours of "conversation" between lifelong friends - it was so trivial and flippant and so very many long awkward silences. It took a staggering amount of emotional intelligence for me to navigate that night successfully...Alas it was just a different way of communicating that I wasn't at all used to

We can be a curious little country OP but there is a 70% chance you'll learn to love us...eventually.

tuxy · 22-01-2020 1:38pm

dontpanic wrote: »

That's very true and it does make a difference. I must say though this post of rural vs. urban brought up the memory of when i ended up down in a tiny village down the country for a birthday and I was completely and utterly baffled at the first two hours of "conversation" between lifelong friends - it was so trivial and flippant and so very many long awkward silences. It took a staggering amount of emotional intelligence for me to navigate that night successfully...Alas it was just a different way of communicating that I wasn't at all used to

I live in a rural area but not that rural.
I know exactly what you mean and I love listening in on this kind of odd communication. I find it fascinating.
But when they try to talk to me it's so awkward because it takes me ages to figure out what they expect me to say or do.

The Orb · 22-01-2020 1:41pm

New to Ireland wrote: »

Thank you, agree. I found mind yourself threatening also, you are onto it at least.

No, you didn't, you just made that up, it fits your broad-stroke narrative. Spoofer.

NSAman · 22-01-2020 1:56pm

Forgive me if this ones across as negative, could the issue be with the OP? As someone who has lived in a few other countries, it is much easier to assimilate if your partner is from the same country. You have a foot hold in that country through your partner.

It also depends on your own personality. Too serious and you are not welcomed by anyone. Open and accepting to change makes a huge difference when interacting with people. Humour is the best approach in my humble opinion and always breaks the ice with people. A smile goes a huge way when meeting people for the first time.

I know of one chap in a similar position to the OP in Ireland, he only has himself to blame, he ignores most people in company, makes no attempt to interact with people UNTIL it is something he wants to talk about...obviously married to an Irish woman. He is hard work, personally, I have tried on many occasions to talk to him without success. His only close friend passed away recently, I am not sure how he will cope with this loss as he never spoke to anyone else except his wife and his friend in company, which i always found strange.

There are assholes in every country, but there are also lovely people everywhere. Anywhere I have lived, I have found great people to socialise with become friends and share lives with. Ireland is no different and it is easier IMHO to find people to talk to there due to the pub and other places.

mvl · 22-01-2020 2:29pm

NSAman wrote: »

Forgive me if this ones across as negative, could the issue be with the OP?
/QUOTE]
I tend to agree with that. if OP is genuinely asking such questions, in current climate, I think they should rather revisit the reason that got them here. in my opinion there is nothing remarkably rude about Ireland, not more than any other country in Europe.

PS: and why apologizing, you've been called rude no matter what you say

ongarboy · 22-01-2020 3:06pm

New to Ireland wrote: »

Thanks everyone for your replies, I am starting to learn re the American/other ways of talking vs typical Irish ways. No I am not a troll not even sure how you could get that from what I wrote and the ways I've written it. I am trying to adjust and know it takes time, my way of talking and engaging with people is very different o the Irish way which is a shock to me and has been hard for me as I really thought it would be an easy transition and people here would love me - but they haven't at all and I've had racism and rudeness and a very tough time. As I said though, I am trying and will continue to do so.

Your posts are quite unusual and I feel something is amiss. You are married to and live with an Irish woman in Ireland yet you talk about the Irish as some strange species you are discovering and learning about on your own. Why on earth isn't your wife who was born and bred here not able to explain all the nuances, traits, isms, and how the Irish engage etc or help you with how to engage/react/inform for those situations that are stressing you (and no one else)?

I'd understand your position more if both you and your wife were from abroad and were finding it a bit alienating but no Irish partner would tell their non national other half "the best way you can immerse yourself with the Irish is by learning the Irish language or taking classes Irish culture". An open minded and informed Irish partner would also possibly challenge some of the extreme negative you have on EVERY Irish person. Is she not offended by your constant put downs of her nationality race?

Something is amiss in all your posts. I wonder is your mental health state affecting your experiences. No normal person gets depressed due to poor customer service (temporarily annoyed maybe) yet you are completely and disproportionately over reacting just because ticket sellers, waiters, etc are not fawning all over you with superficial platitudes.

One last question. Why are you still here if you are so miserable? Can your wife (who seems to have no obvious role or opinion in your life) move to your utopian country?

Manach · 22-01-2020 3:14pm

MOD note:
As the thread discussion has seemly run it's course and is outside the Humanities charter, the thread is being locked.

I am new to this country and want to know why everyone is so rude.

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