Premier league 2020

ThebitterLemon · 16-10-2020 9:09am

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Where have I said smith is one of the best in the world ? I said he is in the top 10 rankings. Are you incapable of even grasping the difference still ? I never said he was one of the best in the world, .In fact I said on here numerous times smith is vastly over rated.
This is another lie by you in your zest to complain just for the sake of it.

The best players in the world are those that win the ranking majors. like price, mvg, ando, wade, dimitri, cross, gurney , wright etc.
Not the players incapable of winning ranking majors like smith, white, durrant , cullen chizzy.

How can a player who has never won a ranking major be in the top 5 in the world ?
Are you going to keep dodging this very simple question ?

So to be clear now, the rankings are irrelevant and the best players in the world currently, are only those who’ve won a major?

Is Wade currently one of the best players in the world?

TbL

Kingp35 · 16-10-2020 9:11am

US2 wrote: »

Your tears are so sweet Justin, keep crying.

MOD NOTE: Keep it civil, please.

Justin Credible Darts · 16-10-2020 9:22am

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

So to be clear now, the rankings are irrelevant and the best players in the world currently, are only those who’ve won a major?

Is Wade currently one of the best players in the world?

TbL

you think Durrant is one of the best in the world, yet you are unable or unwilling to tell people what criteria you base this on

Lets compare the players then.

Wade has won multiple ranking majors in the PDC

Durrant has won ZERO ranking majors in the PDC

Wade is in the top 10 of the order of merit
Durrant is not in the top ten of the order of merit.

Wade is in the top ten of the protour order of merit based on just this year.
Durrant is NOT in the top ten of the protour order of merit for the year.

If Durrant is one of the best in the world, then surely Wade is higher...the ranking prove wade has earned more, win more and is placed higher.
Are you going to tell me the pdc ranking are wrong now as well ?

Surely dimitri van den Bergh who won a ranking major this year, something durrant could not do, and Dimitri even beat durrant on his way to the title is better.

Price is better, he won a ranking major, as is MVG...etc

You grasping it yet ?

Enlighten me, on what bizarre planet is a player who has never won a single ranking major in the top 5 in the world.

Are you unable to back up the claim you made ?

Kingp35 · 16-10-2020 9:33am

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Wade is in the top ten of the protour order of merit based on just this year.
Durrant is NOT in the top ten of the protour order of merit for the year.

This is the only relevant stat from your post Justin.

You can't compare PDC titles when Durrant hasn't even been in the PDC 2 years yet. Likewise for the OoM as Durrant is still earning money and not defending any yet.

Saying that though, your point about the Pro Tour OoM is a valid one. Duzza has clearly not been a top ten player this year on the floor/European Tour. It's a part of his game he needs to improve if he wants to become a top ten PDC player and stay there.

I also agree that non-ranking events are not majors. I get why the Premier League exists but the other non-ranking events should be binned, they're pointless.

ThebitterLemon · 16-10-2020 9:36am

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

you think Durrant is one of the best in the world, yet you are unable or unwilling to tell people what criteria you base this on

Lets compare the players then.

Wade has won multiple ranking majors in the PDC

Durrant has won ZERO ranking majors in the PDC

Wade is in the top 10 of the order of merit
Durrant is not in the top ten of the order of merit.

Wade is in the top ten of the protour order of merit based on just this year.
Durrant is NOT in the top ten of the protour order of merit for the year.

If Durrant is one of the best in the world, then surely Wade is higher...the ranking prove wade has earned more, win more and is placed higher.
Are you going to tell me the pdc ranking are wrong now as well ?

Surely dimitri van den Bergh who won a ranking major this year, something durrant could not do, and Dimitri even beat durrant on his way to the title is better.

Price is better, he won a ranking major, as is MVG...etc

You grasping it yet ?

Enlighten me, on what bizarre planet is a player who has never won a single ranking major in the top 5 in the world.

Are you unable to back up the claim you made ?

But but but I’m confused... Smith is currently higher than Wade in the rankings and got to the final of the biggest tournament in darts but he’s not currently one of the best players in the world but James Wade is

I think I’ll let you back to your parallel universe and your fantasy top 10

TbL

Justin Credible Darts · 16-10-2020 1:21pm

Kingp35 wrote: »

This is the only relevant stat from your post Justin.

You can't compare PDC titles when Durrant hasn't even been in the PDC 2 years yet. Likewise for the OoM as Durrant is still earning money and not defending any yet.

Saying that though, your point about the Pro Tour OoM is a valid one. Duzza has clearly not been a top ten player this year on the floor/European Tour. It's a part of his game he needs to improve if he wants to become a top ten PDC player and stay there.

I also agree that non-ranking events are not majors. I get why the Premier League exists but the other non-ranking events should be binned, they're pointless.

Of course I am right that durrant is not even in the top 10 of the protour.
I know certain people would love for me to be wrong as then they could use that to deflect. But certain people on here dont like the truth, dont like stats, and refuse to believe facts.

There is something serious strange when a person who made a nonsensical claim, that a player who is not even in the pdc top 10 for the year,

has never won a pdc ranking major is suddenly world class and in the top 5 in the world.
and when asked why of how they came to that conclusion is unwilling or unable to back up their nonsensical claim.

What is also completely ridiculous is that a player like dimitri van den Bergh has earned more money this year than durrant and is a better player, and not only reached the final of a proper ranking major, but won it, and even defeated durrant along the way, earned more money than durrant this calendar year is not praised like durrant is.

Why is dimi not one of the best in the world since this seems to be the criteria some are using ???

It is very clear, because i am posting these stats some people are trying to dismiss me as it that somehow dismisses the facts.
It wont work

you cannot hoodwink a person with common sense, that a player outside the top ten for the year, with zero ranking finals., let alone ranking major final wins is a top 5 player in the world.

US2 · 16-10-2020 1:49pm

Player A plays 10 tournaments reaches semis in all

Player B plays 10 tournaments loses 1st round in 9, but wins 1

Who's the better player in your opinion Justin? Just A or B answer..

Durrant is a better player than Dimitri you're deluding yourself.

US2 · 16-10-2020 1:49pm

Why do you keep referring to the rankings when you've claimed loads of times that they are nonsical and can't be used

Justin Credible Darts · 16-10-2020 2:03pm

Dimitri has earned more money this year than durrant...FACT
He is higher in the ranking FACt
He not only won a ranking major something durrant has been unable to do ,
dimi even beat Durrant on his way to said major

Dimi is clearly a better player.

How can a player, who has NEVER REACHED THE FINAL OF A PDC RANKING MAJOR BE A TOP 5 PLAYER ?

That is like saying a tennis player who never reached the final of the US Open, Aussie Open, French Open and wimbledon is one of the best in the world. Its absolutely stupid.

Or claim a player who has never won one of the majors in golf is one of the best in the world, again you would be the laughing stock.

you cannot be one of the best in the world or top 5 if there are at least ten others who are doing better than you.
you can spin it whatever way to can, deflect all you want. In fact you know your point is so ridiculous you cannot even back up your claim and afraid to even answer the most simple question.

The more you avoid answering the question the more you are proving you have no basis for your ludicrous claim.

Justin Credible Darts · 16-10-2020 2:09pm

US2 wrote: »

Player A plays 10 tournaments reaches semis in all

Player B plays 10 tournaments loses 1st round in 9, but wins 1

Who's the better player in your opinion Justin? Just A or B answer..

Durrant is a better player than Dimitri you're deluding yourself.

Durrant did not reach ten semi finals
Dimi did not go out in ten first rounds.

Dimi has earned more money that durrant this year....FACT
Dimi not only won a major, something durrant has not done , dimi even beat durrant along the way in winning said major.

Dimi is higher in the 2 year order of merit
dimi is higher in the one year pro tour.

Again you are being shown up with facts and stats that show you have no idea and are clearly wrong.

If durrant was "better" he would have earned more and be higher,, but he is not., because Dimi is better.

The FACTS back that up.

Petyr Baelish · 16-10-2020 2:28pm

This is hilarious. I'm running out of popcorn.

Justin Credible Darts · 16-10-2020 2:31pm

Petyr Baelish wrote: »

This is hilarious. I'm running out of popcorn.

it is.

I think it incredible a person would make a claim that durrant is to 5 in the world, despite him never winning a ranking major, and when said member is asked why or what criteria he was using, they would then fail to answer the question and is unable to back up their claim.

mdwexford · 16-10-2020 2:45pm

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Durrant did not reach ten semi finals
Dimi did not go out in ten first rounds.

Dimi has earned more money that durrant this year....FACT
Dimi not only won a major, something durrant has not done , dimi even beat durrant along the way in winning said major.

Dimi is higher in the 2 year order of merit
dimi is higher in the one year pro tour.

Again you are being shown up with facts and stats that show you have no idea and are clearly wrong.

If durrant was "better" he would have earned more and be higher,, but he is not., because Dimi is better.

The FACTS back that up.

Within the last two years:

Glen Durrant has reached 4 major semi finals. Fact
Dimitri has reached 1 major semi final. Fact

How has Dimitri earned more than Glen this year.
Glen got £250k for last night. Second biggest payday of the year and more than Dimitri has ever earned in a tournament. Fact

Nobody that has any idea about darts would argue Dvdb is a better player than Durrant. Baffling carry on.

Justin Credible Darts · 16-10-2020 2:48pm

mdwexford wrote: »

Within the last two years:

Glen Durrant has reached 4 major semi finals. Fact
Dimitri has reached 1 major semi final. Fact

How has Dimitri earned more than Glen this year.
Glen got £250k for last night. Second biggest payday of the year and more than Dimitri has ever earned in a tournament. Fact

Nobody that has any idea about darts would argue Dvdb is a better player than Durrant. Baffling carry on.

What is baffling is how you are unable to read the word ranking !

you do know the premier league is non ranking right.?
That is why dimitri is higher in the 2 year ranking, higher in the one year rankings.
dont believe me, go look at the ranking tables.

did you also opt to ignore the word ranking, or was it accidental you missed it ?

mdwexford · 16-10-2020 2:56pm

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

What is baffling is how you are unable to read the word ranking !

you do know the premier league is non ranking right.?
That is why dimitri is higher in the 2 year ranking, higher in the one year rankings.
dont believe me, go look at the ranking tables.

did you also opt to ignore the word ranking, or was it accidental you missed it ?

I didn’t mention any rankings.

I stated facts. Cold hard facts.
Are you disputing any of my aforesaid facts?

So will the banks not accept the £250,000 Glen won last night?
Seems to me prize money is prize money regardless if it counts for the order of merit.

Justin Credible Darts · 16-10-2020 3:09pm

mdwexford wrote: »

I didn’t mention any rankings.

I stated facts. Cold hard facts.
Are you disputing any of my aforesaid facts?

So will the banks not accept the £250,000 Glen won last night?
Seems to me prize money is prize money regardless if it counts for the order of merit.

Of course its a great cheque to pick up.

But the PL is non ranking, no matter how you spin things,thats a fact

His win last night has no bearing on his rankings...again another fact.

Dimitri beat durrant on his way to a PROPER RANKING MAJOR , another fact.

Dimitri earned more money, not just this year in the protour, but earned more money on the 2 year order of merit...again facts.

Durrant is not in the top ten rankings, be it for 2 years or one year.
Has never made the final of a ranking major, let alone win one like many others have this year.

how can durrant be ahead of players that have won proper ranking majors when he has won none himself.
Can you not see the flaw in that ?

Justin Credible Darts · 16-10-2020 3:11pm

for the record, Barney made a fortune out of all his pl invites, yet when he retired last year, he was in his 13th straight year without a ranking major title.

All that PL money did not save him when nit came to his rankings.

Justin Credible Darts · 16-10-2020 3:43pm

Kingp35 wrote: »

I also agree that non-ranking events are not majors. I get why the Premier League exists but the other non-ranking events should be binned, they're pointless.

I think there are far too many non ranking invitational comps in the PDC.
You have the Masters for example, which happens after the worlds and before the PL.

You have the world series events and their final, again a glorified exbo.
You have the champions league with is basically the same type of event that the masters is, but only created so they have something for the BBC.

The World Cup is a joke and another glorified exbo.

The PL is a joke,where selection is based on favoritism but of all the non ranking comps, the Premier League is needed, as it funds the tour.

Personally I would like the Master, to go, along with the Champions league, and the pdc create a new ranking comp to be on the BBC instead.

I will go so far to say, I personally would rather watch the Euro tour (which i am watching right now, that watch the masters, CLoD, World Series, world Cup or the Premier League. I prefer ranking darts to invitational glorified exbos.

US2 · 16-10-2020 3:49pm

Do you think it's easier to win the premier league than the match play simply because it's unranked?

Justin Credible Darts · 16-10-2020 4:00pm

US2 wrote: »

Do you think it's easier to win the premier league than the match play simply because it's unranked?

I think the Matchplay is harder to win and I base this on a few reasons.

1. The Premier League being an invitation usually omits some of the better players.
James Wade reached the semi finals of the 2019 premier League, and was not invited back, instead they had durrant in instead. how is that right ? where a semi finalist, and higher ranked player is dumped out for a lower ranked player ?

2. With some of the top players not invited, it therefore makes it a weaker field. That is common logic.

3. The matchplay includes all top 32 current players....no exceptions, no wildcards, no players omitted because of preferential treatment. The Matchplay field is larger , and its a proper one on one knockout competiton, no comeback after losing, no draws, proper pressure in a proper ranking tournament.

The PL might have more money, but the matchplay has the prestige.
James Wade and Phil Taylor 2 players that won both the PL and the Matchplay has openly said the Matchplay is more important and the one to win.

I will take the word of taylor and Wade over you.

Kingp35 · 16-10-2020 4:32pm

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I will go so far to say, I personally would rather watch the Euro tour (which i am watching right now, that watch the masters, CLoD, World Series, world Cup or the Premier League. I prefer ranking darts to invitational glorified exbos.

Agreed on all these bar the World Cup. I don't watch any of them bar the World Cup as at least the format is different and interesting.

I get that World Series is there to promote the sport around the world but does anybody really think it does that?

The Champions League and Masters are literally pointless, they don't even have an interesting formats to set them apart. These two should definitely be scrapped with a new ranking tournament in their place. Perhaps a set play tournament where it's first to 2 legs for a set, something different.

Degag · 16-10-2020 4:38pm

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Where have I said smith is one of the best in the world ? I said he is in the top 10 rankings. Are you incapable of even grasping the difference still ? I never said he was one of the best in the world, .In fact I said on here numerous times smith is vastly over rated.
This is another lie by you in your zest to complain just for the sake of it.

The best players in the world are those that win the ranking majors. like price, mvg, ando, wade, dimitri, cross, gurney , wright etc.
Not the players incapable of winning ranking majors like smith, white, durrant , cullen chizzy.

How can a player who has never won a ranking major be in the top 5 in the world ?
Are you going to keep dodging this very simple question ?

So, Peter Wright has been pretty consistently in the top 5 for a number of years but only relatively recently won his first major (Is the UK Open even still considered a major?)

Are you saying that Peter Wright was not one of the best players in the world prior to this; but when he won the UK Open, there was a sudden epiphany and overnight he did become one of the best players in the world?

Ludicrous. But that seems to be what you are saying.

Justin Credible Darts · 16-10-2020 5:44pm

Degag wrote: »

So, Peter Wright has been pretty consistently in the top 5 for a number of years but only relatively recently won his first major (Is the UK Open even still considered a major?)

Are you saying that Peter Wright was not one of the best players in the world prior to this; but when he won the UK Open, there was a sudden epiphany and overnight he did become one of the best players in the world?

Ludicrous. But that seems to be what you are saying.

if you actually read my posts , it was a combination of multiple factors.
winning ranking majors is obviously an integral part, but so is consistency in ranking events like floor champs, euro tours etc so that you would be high up in the Pro tour order of merit.

I also stated reaching finals of ranking events, did you ignore that as well.?

The UK Open is a ranking major, in fact it was one of the 4 big ranking majors, alongside the Worlds, Matchplay, and Grand Prix.
Peter Wright even why he was struggling to cross the line was reaching ranking finals, and semi finals at a prolific rate, a rate far better than what durrant is doing.

That is why Wright was in the top ten order of merit, what he was in the top ten pro tour order of merit and as said has reached ranking finals.

Durrant has not reached any final in ranking majors, and because of that, he is not in the top ten order of merit or top ten protour order of merit.

These are genuine facts, why you and others insist on denying them shows how biased ye are.

If Glen wins the grand slam for arguments sake, then he would clearly be a top player, and the ranking s would reflect that.
My issue was we were told almost 2 years ago durrant is the best in the world, just because he played in the BDO.

prior to last night he played 22 staged events from euro tours to ranking majors and failed to reach a single final, spin that whatever way you like, but that is not the form of a player supposedly top 4 in the world.

Justin Credible Darts · 16-10-2020 5:50pm

Kingp35 wrote: »

Agreed on all these bar the World Cup. I don't watch any of them bar the World Cup as at least the format is different and interesting.

I get that World Series is there to promote the sport around the world but does anybody really think it does that?

The Champions League and Masters are literally pointless, they don't even have an interesting formats to set them apart. These two should definitely be scrapped with a new ranking tournament in their place. Perhaps a set play tournament where it's first to 2 legs for a set, something different.

James Wade is among my favorite players, and when john McDonald introduces him as a 9 time Major champion i shake my head., because he does not have 9 majors.

They count the Unibet Masters, the Premier League, and the world Series among his majors, they are not majors, as they are all invitational.
I would go as far as to say Wades European championship is not a major but a secondary event.

For me the Majors have to be non invitational, and ranking.

So The Worlds, The Grand Prix, the Matchplay, and the UK Open.

Some now consider the Grand Slam a major, and although it only recently gained ranking status, it is still invitational to the bdo so thats 50/50, and until the bdo are flung out it wont ever be a true Major as majors should not have invites.

paulie21 · 16-10-2020 6:02pm

I'd agree Sky and Mardle overhype the Premier League even called it a triple crown event. The triple crown is Worlds, Matchplay and Grand Prix in my view.

Degag · 16-10-2020 6:19pm

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

if you actually read my posts , it was a combination of multiple factors.
winning ranking majors is obviously an integral part, but so is consistency in ranking events like floor champs, euro tours etc so that you would be high up in the Pro tour order of merit.

I also stated reaching finals of ranking events, did you ignore that as well.?

The UK Open is a ranking major, in fact it was one of the 4 big ranking majors, alongside the Worlds, Matchplay, and Grand Prix.
Peter Wright even why he was struggling to cross the line was reaching ranking finals, and semi finals at a prolific rate, a rate far better than what durrant is doing.

That is why Wright was in the top ten order of merit, what he was in the top ten pro tour order of merit and as said has reached ranking finals.

Durrant has not reached any final in ranking majors, and because of that, he is not in the top ten order of merit or top ten protour order of merit.

These are genuine facts, why you and others insist on denying them shows how biased ye are.

If Glen wins the grand slam for arguments sake, then he would clearly be a top player, and the ranking s would reflect that.
My issue was we were told almost 2 years ago durrant is the best in the world, just because he played in the BDO.

prior to last night he played 22 staged events from euro tours to ranking majors and failed to reach a single final, spin that whatever way you like, but that is not the form of a player supposedly top 4 in the world.

I try to read your posts, like most other people here but it's slightly difficult to engage with you when you pull "facts" out of your arse to suit your agenda.

Justin Credible Darts · 16-10-2020 6:19pm

paulie21 wrote: »

I'd agree Sky and Mardle overhype the Premier League even called it a triple crown event. The triple crown is Worlds, Matchplay and Grand Prix in my view.

Cannot argue with that,

The Premier League is major in terms of money, major in terms of exposure, but it cannot compete with ranking tournament in the greater scheme.

You only have to look at Barney, he skipped ranking events like the euro tour, players champs, which meant he never qualified for the european champs and players champs, then plummeted down the rankings.

He got money and exposure in the PL but inevitably it was no good to his career, as the ranking are vastly import.

Ando is doing the same, he has not done euro tours since his sulk a couple of years ago, and he will start tumbling down the rankings, and if the worlds is held outside the uk and he does not attend, he could end up outside the top 20..

Likewise with Durrant, he has done very good in his first 2 years, and should get in the top 10 before he starts defending, but the results do not lie,

On the floor and euro tours and ranking events, durrant is not in the top ten, and that is the bread and butter

Justin Credible Darts · 16-10-2020 6:20pm

Degag wrote: »

I try to read your posts, like most other people here but it's slightly difficult to engage with you when you pull "facts" out of your arse to suit your agenda.

show me what fact is not a fact then.

Enlighten me as to what fact is untrue or a lie

Degag · 16-10-2020 6:34pm

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

show me what fact is not a fact then.

Enlighten me as to what fact is untrue or a lie

For one, that you keep peddling the "fact" that Durrant is not a top 10 player while not properly considering that he hasn't played the full qualitative period.

You are comparing apples to oranges but won't recognize that due to your biased agenda.

It's akin to saying that if a player only played one tournament, won it, but did not enter the top ten, then he is no good.

You hold the "fact that he has not won a "major" over him even though he has had less than 2 years to do so and yet in that time has reached plenty of finals/semi-finals etc.

You can't take the fact that he won the PL against fantastic opposition, holding the top spot pretty much throughout it all because it again does not suit your agenda therefore you must rubbish it. Non-ranking or not, it's damn tough to win.

Anyhow, i want to enjoy my Friday evening so no interest in engaging further.

boomdocker · 16-10-2020 6:59pm

boomdocker wrote: »

flippin' hell, checked in to see what the crack was with the Premier League, have to scroll back through two pages of $hite to find it !

.....deja vu!

Justin Credible Darts · 16-10-2020 7:01pm

Degag wrote: »

You are comparing apples to oranges but won't recognize that due to your biased agenda.
.

What agenda, again if you actually read my posts, they are about the hype spouted by pyke, mardle etc,

do you even read my posts you complain about ?

Degag wrote: »

For one, that you keep peddling the "fact" that Durrant is not a top 10 player while not properly considering that he hasn't played the full qualitative period.

I have already addressed this too. He is not top ten for this year either,
He is not in the top ten of the pro tour order of merit.
so it is a fact.

Are you actually aware what the pro tour order of merit is ?

Justin Credible Darts · 23-10-2020 1:39pm

colin lloyd says the premier league should be the top 10.

he has a point when players in the top ten were left out for players outside the top ten who could never reach a ranking final

https://www.skysports.com/darts/news/36383/12111251/colin-lloyd-ponders-future-of-darts-premier-league-dream-debuts-and-the-form-of-gary-anderson

Premier league 2020

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