Premier league 2020

peteeeed

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

And MVG never played mind games ?

I have posted facts to back why I am convinced Taylor was supremely better.
I would not even have MVG in the top 2 as I would have Bristow ahead of him as well.Taylor has more titles, more silverware, more total majors, higher comp averages, more longevity etc.

so what are you basing this claim that MVG is the better talent on ?
, do you have anything other that just an opinion. ?

Bristow was great as was Taylor of course but they won titles against players with averages of 95 or under, now a loser in a final can hit an average of 105 or above, it's a different sport, Taylor's longevity is insane, it will never be matched and he stayed in with the current crop as long as he could, yes it's my opinion that MVG is a better talent

Justin Credible Darts

peteeeed wrote: »

Bristow was great as was Taylor of course but they won titles against players with averages of 95 or under, now a loser in a final can hit an average of 105 or above, it's a different sport, Taylor's longevity is insane, it will never be matched and he stayed in with the current crop as long as he could, yes it's my opinion that MVG is a better talent

To quote a scumbag ex convict from darts. "they dont write averages on the trophy".




You actually contradicted yourself in the same sentence.
You claimed players of old never hit high averages, and then claim its a different game now.

Do you know why its a different game now, especially in terms of averages ?

Darts today is played on boards which makes it more conducive for professionals to get far higher averages. Look at a treble on todays unicorn board, and compare that to the smaller trebles on the old boards, and that's not even counting the staples that make them smaller.


Look at the darts that were heavier and thicker, meaning getting 3 in the treble was far harder. Anyone with any knowledge of the game would , or should be aware of this.


and thirdly, the money in darts is so much better now, players in the past had full time jobs, and outside a mere handful like Bristow, there was no professional players who could dedicate all their time to darts,



Taylor himself has said in the past Bristow was the best of all time, and I watched bristow growing up and I thought he was the best.



you claim MVG is the best, based on nothing but your opinion, and that is your right, you believe what you want, but I will back up my opinion with facts and figures to validate my point.

Liamalone

MVG is the best player ever, Taylor was a fish out of water with no discernible challenger for like, ever.

Elias79

Liamalone wrote: »

MVG is the best player ever, Taylor was a fish out of water with no discernible challenger for like, ever.

Did Taylor not beat MvG in a world Final?

Liamalone

Elias79 wrote: »

Did Taylor not beat MvG in a world Final?

Did Wimbledon not beat Liverpool in a cup final? Soooooo......

Elias79

Liamalone wrote: »

Did Wimbledon not beat Liverpool in a cup final? Soooooo......

Do you consider that Liverpool team to be the best team ever?

Liamalone

Elias79 wrote: »

Do you consider that Liverpool team to be the best team ever?

Definitely not lol Has anyone, in any sport, ever went undefeated?

Justin Credible Darts

Liamalone wrote: »

MVG is the best player ever, Taylor was a fish out of water with no discernible challenger for like, ever.

again this is just an opinion of your based on zero facts just some biased loyalty



now if you were to provide data as to back up your claim it might not be so laughable.
Maybe a head to head between the players...oh wait....Taylor wins that too.

Kingp35

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

you claim MVG is the best, based on nothing but your opinion, and that is your right, you believe what you want, but I will back up my opinion with facts and figures to validate my point.

This line is particularly brilliant Justin.

You use 'facts' to back up your claims but then state Bristow was a better player than MvG. Would you stop

Justin Credible Darts

Kingp35 wrote: »

This line is particularly brilliant Justin.

You use 'facts' to back up your claims but then state Bristow was a better player than MvG. Would you stop

Bristow was a better player.

I would take the word of Phil Taylor over the likes of you, since he played the game. I dont know how old you are but I guess you are either young, or one of these new bandwagon supporters, cos if you ever watched Bristow you would have known


Bristow has 5 times as many winmau masters as MVG, and all won in a unified field....something MVG never did

Bristow was the first and most popular player in the history of the game for a reason.

He has more world titles than MVG, and not only has he more, but they were won in a unified field....something MVG never did.


Is that enough stats and facts for you ?


So to stop yourself looking like a hypocrite, how about you post some facts to back up argument, seeing as that is what you are complaining about

peteeeed

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Bristow was a better player.

I would take the word of Phil Taylor over the likes of you, since he played the game. I dont know how old you are but I guess you are either young, or one of these new bandwagon supporters, cos if you ever watched Bristow you would have known


Bristow has 5 times as many winmau masters as MVG, and all won in a unified field....something MVG never did

Bristow was the first and most popular player in the history of the game for a reason.

He has more world titles than MVG, and not only has he more, but they were won in a unified field....something MVG never did.


also you will also add personal jabs at all the players except taylor ...mvg ' the dutch lump 'like taylor is in shape .

Is that enough stats and facts for you ?


So to stop yourself looking like a hypocrite, how about you post some facts to back up argument, seeing as that is what you are complaining about

Bristow who gave £10,000 to Phil Taylor to quit his job and start as a professional ?
i love eric bristow but he is not better than MVG , anderson or peter wright , the game has moved on massively since then , eric was the best of his generation , is the most successful darts player of all the of all time and it won't be beaten because there are too many good players now .


justin why do you turn everything in to a straight up fight with everyone on all the darts forums , you have an opinion which you are entitled to but so do the rest of us

US2

Using the unified titles as a stick to beat MVG with is strange seen as he was 4 or 5 years old when the split happend.

Kingp35

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I would take the word of Phil Taylor over the likes of you, since he played the game.

Nice use of a logical fallacy there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

I dont know how old you are but I guess you are either young, or one of these new bandwagon supporters, cos if you ever watched Bristow you would have known

I won't stoop to your level.

Bristow has 5 times as many winmau masters as MVG, and all won in a unified field....something MVG never did.

A bit difficult for MvG to beat that record since he was in the BDO for a total of 3 years. However he did win it once, as a 17 year old making him the youngest ever winner.

Bristow was the first and most popular player in the history of the game for a reason.

Irrelevant.

He has more world titles than MVG, and not only has he more, but they were won in a unified field....something MVG never did.

He currently has more. Unified field is irrelevant, MvG won his first world title in 2014, the BDO was terrible at that point. Also the standard of darts has never been higher, the strength in depth has never been higher, making World Titles much more difficult to win. The sport is professional, all players take it seriously, unlike the 70's and 80's.

Is that enough stats and facts for you ?

No, not even close.

So to stop yourself looking like a hypocrite, how about you post some facts to back up argument, seeing as that is what you are complaining about

World Record highest average at 123.40. He's averaged over 115 8 times. He has 7 televised 9-darters, including being the youngest player ever to hit one. He's won 54 televised titles, 77 non-televised titles. He's been world No.1 since 2014.

Honestly Justin, it's not even close.

Justin Credible Darts

peteeeed wrote: »

Bristow who gave £10,000 to Phil Taylor to quit his job and start as a professional ?
i love eric bristow but he is not better than MVG , anderson or peter wright , the game has moved on massively since then , eric was the best of his generation , is the most successful darts player of all the of all time and it won't be beaten because there are too many good players now .


justin why do you turn everything in to a straight up fight with everyone on all the darts forums , you have an opinion which you are entitled to but so do the rest of us

I think you will find it was actually you that jumped on a post I made and started this question.
I stated how Taylor was better than MVG, you responded by saying MVG was better based on a solitary average,


I backed up my claim with my reasons, with stats and facts as to why I believe Taylor is better..

I have provided facts and stats as to why I think Bristow was better.


Yet you make claims ando, wright etc are better, and instead of posting a single stat or fact to back up your claims, and when I point this out, you accuse me of starting a fight.


I think you will find it is not a fight but a discussion board, and if you dont want me to reply why do you respond to my posts ?

Justin Credible Darts

Kingp35 wrote: »

Nice use of a logical fallacy there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority



I won't stoop to your level.



A bit difficult for MvG to beat that record since he was in the BDO for a total of 3 years. However he did win it once, as a 17 year old making him the youngest ever winner.



Irrelevant.



He currently has more. Unified field is irrelevant, MvG won his first world title in 2014, the BDO was terrible at that point. Also the standard of darts has never been higher, the strength in depth has never been higher, making World Titles much more difficult to win. The sport is professional, all players take it seriously, unlike the 70's and 80's.



No, not even close.



World Record highest average at 123.40. He's averaged over 115 8 times. He has 7 televised 9-darters, including being the youngest player ever to hit one. He's won 54 televised titles, 77 non-televised titles. He's been world No.1 since 2014.

Honestly Justin, it's not even close.

Stoop to my level ?
Either you watched him growing up or you didnt, with so many younger people only getting into darts in the last decade I was curious as toi whether you actually ever watched him. How is asking a simple question stooping to a level ?



And calling something irrelevant because it dont suit you does not make it irrelevant.


Also if you anything about Bristow, you would have known he was a professional player. In fact he was one of the very first professionals, so you were wrong .


Claiming unified fields dont matter is just a deflection tactic by you,
And these averages you and pete seem obsessed with, were got on modern boards, conducive for higher averages with the larger trebles.
When Bristow played the trebles were not only smaller, but had staples, the darts were thicker, and you would have known this if you had actually watched back then.

boomdocker

flippin' hell, checked in to see what the crack was with the Premier League, have to scroll back through two pages of $hite to find it !

Justin Credible Darts

I did find it very odd that an adult on here would describe a discussion on a discussion board as a "fight".
sounds very defensive to me.

Lazarus2.0

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I did find it very odd that an adult on here would describe a discussion on a discussion board as a "fight".
sounds very defensive to me.

Jaysus, thought I'd check in on the forum but wasn't expecting this!

I'd have to wonder how someone who so frequently uses expletives and posts abusively about players and hides behind the umbrage of the word "proven" might take issue with the possible misuse of the word "fight". Your arguments are good and I like reading them but your venom has no place in any discussion board IMO. A lesser man might even suggest you're a proven dickhead, but I won't go there.

To stay on topic (ok , not really on topic but I'm trying), personally I think John Lowe was GOAT not cos of stats (although that 9-darter, eh?) but in my memory - and yep, I'm that old - he was the first player who I ever remember playing in a cold calculated way, when other players seemed to be playing on adrenalin, vodka and pale ale. I think he brought Bristow on cos it was a different challenge for Eric and he learned a lot from their encounters but jeez, if those two back then had had the boards that are used now their averages would have been scary good when they needed to be! The modern player is a composite of those two - Eric's pure talent and John's pure focus - and whoever combines both of those the best on PlayOff night will win the PL.

My money is on Snakebite and no probs if you card me, mod

Justin Credible Darts

Lazarus2.0 wrote: »

if those two back then had had the boards that are used now their averages would have been scary good when they needed to be!

is that not what I was saying about the equipment being used back then ?


Others on here believe averages are all that makes a good player.
Michael Smith can score like mad, hits maximums for fun, but has no spinal column.


We even had one claim the players were not as good because they never averaged over 95....which itself is an obvious lie and had they watched any darts from that era they might have educated themselves.


and the irony of you complaining I use expletives when you are name calling shows zero self awareness

Justin Credible Darts

this wraps up on thursday night

US2

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

this wraps up on thursday night

Going to be unusual not having either of the 2 best players in the playoffs. At least 3 and 4 are there in wright and durrant.

Justin Credible Darts

US2 wrote: »

Going to be unusual not having either of the 2 best players in the playoffs. At least 3 and 4 are there in wright and durrant.

In what bizarre universe is durrant in the top 4 in the world ?
Would this be the same durrant who has played in the PDC for 21 month....played in 22 staged events, and reached ZERO FINALS.


Dirk van Duijvenbode has got further in majors than durrant.


Durrant has lost to 58 different players in PDC competition,some players he lost to 3 times or more.


He finished top of an invitational, non ranking glorified exbo that has been a cluster**** due to covid..


Durrant is a decent player, along the lines of cullen, chizzy, Ian White, bit a top 4 player......are you insane ?

US2

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

In what bizarre universe is durrant in the top 4 in the world ?
Would this be the same durrant who has played in the PDC for 21 month....played in 22 staged events, and reached ZERO FINALS.


Dirk van Duijvenbode has got further in majors than durrant.


Durrant has lost to 58 different players in PDC competition,some players he lost to 3 times or more.


He finished top of an invitational, non ranking glorified exbo that has been a cluster**** due to covid..


Durrant is a decent player, along the lines of cullen, chizzy, Ian White, bit a top 4 player......are you insane ?

I suppose you could have Smith 4 maybe durrant 5

Justin Credible Darts

US2 wrote: »

I suppose you could have Smith 4 maybe durrant 5

Smith has done more in the pdc than durrant...FACT
Dimitri van den bergh has won more FACT
Dimi even beat durrant on his way to a major title....FACT
Dirk van Diujvenbode has done better in the pdc than durrant.....these are FACTS

I am not even counting proven multiple major winners like MVG, Wright, Price, Anderson, Wade, Gurney, Mensur.
Even Dave Chisnall , Whitlock and others have reached major finals in the PDC, That is 12 players alone who have done more than durrant


Durrant is not even in the top ten of the OoM,,,surely he would be in the top ten at least....but he is not...another FACT


Tell me how many majors in the pdc has durrant won...the answer is ZERO
How many finals has he reached in the almost 2 years in the PDC...answer ZERO
How many euro tours has he won ? the answer is Zero.

Just because he finished top of an invitation glorified exbo you think that makes his top 4. A PL that did not have proven winners in it like Anderson or Wade, or top ten players like Chizzy in it, players than have dome more than what durrant has.

MVG did not finish is the top 4, by that warped logic of yours durrant must be better than MVG next I guess.

Stop drinking the pdc hype and kool aid, just because Mardle screams over and over he is one of the best, foes not make it so.
You are being brainwashed by hype.
He has done nothing in the PDC to warrant being in the top 10.....another FACT
If he did and won actual trophies he would be in the top ten but he is not.And come January he is defending money.

He has won just a single comp in the almost 2 years, the most basic of floor comps...again another fact, like Ryan Joyce, Willie o Connor and countless other lower players who have won the same type event.

And don't give me the nonsense how he won some mickey mouse bdo tincup in the atrocious backward amateur bdo.
Christian Kist won that comp ffs.
Durrant is a good player, but saying he is in the top 4 is lunacy.

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to what criteria you are using to rate him so highly.

Porthallian

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Just because he finished top of an invitation glorified exbo you think that makes his top 4. A PL that did not have proven winners in it like Anderson or Wade, or top ten players like Chizzy in it, players than have dome more than what durrant has.

Anderson finished 4th.

US2

I was winding you up Justin but that's some nonsense. Your hatred for certain players clearly blinds you.

No proven winners haha what about MvG, Anderson, Wright, Gurney, Aspinal, Price, all multiple major winners.

Kingp35

US2 wrote: »

No proven winners haha what about MvG, Anderson, Wright, Gurney, Aspinal, Price, all multiple major winners.

According to Justin, Anderson wasn't in the Premier League yet somehow he still managed to finish 4th. Impressive really.

Justin Credible Darts

US2 wrote: »

I was winding you up Justin but that's some nonsense. Your hatred for certain players clearly blinds you.

No proven winners haha what about MvG, Anderson, Wright, Gurney, Aspinal, Price, all multiple major winners.

Where did I say I hated those players ?


In fact I specifically have said NUMEROUS TIMES Durrant is a good player, and a good lad, who I have spoken to privately many times.


My issue is not with durrant but people like Mardle Pyke etc who harp on constantly that durrant is one of the best in the World and people like you actually believe it. Again on what basis is he one of the best in the world ?






The facts prove he is not. I see you were unable to back up anything or provide a single reason why you think he is one of the best, as expected.


I have stated numerous players who have won more
Named players this year alone that achieved more
Names players higher in the ranking
there are players higher in the one year oom


People are told durrant is one of the best, simply because he won amateur bdo rubbish, no more no less, as his record in the PDC is not that of a top ten player.


That is an actual fact, and you can squirm, deflect from that fact spin it to try make it a personal thing, but the reality is the facts back up my point.

Justin Credible Darts

Lets deal with just facts.



Durrant has played in 22 staged events from Euro Tours, World Series, Ranking Televised Majors in the 22 months with the PDC
He has won ZERO of those events
In fact he has not even reached a final.

He is NOT in the top ten Order of Merit over the 2 years.
He is NOT in the top ten Pro tour order of merit based on the last 12 months.

There is absolutely nothing to validate the nonsense claim he is top 10 in the world let alone top 4.

Here is a list of tv tournament winners and runners up since Durrant joined the PDC
Rob Cross, Gary Anderson, Nathan Aspinall, Michael smith, Dimitri van den Bergh, Dirk van Duijvenbode, Peter Wright, MVG, Gerwyn Price, Dave Chisnall, James Wade and Danny Noppert

That is 12 players alone, then add in other tv winners like Gurney Whitlock, Suljovic etc who have won past tv comps and you start to see how exaggerated the whole Durrant is top 4 rhetoric truly is.

There is nothing to suggest he is top 10 let alone top 4 except the ramblings of someone like Mardle who won nothing of note in the game. Those are facts.

Justin Credible Darts

probably get accused of "hating" for post these facts as well

---

interesting stats here......comparing the top 4 in the Premier League and their performances/ record against each other.

Durrant has the worst head to head record
Durrant has the lowest average
Durrant has the least 180s
Durrant has the lowest doubling percentage.