Galway - BusConnects

tharlear wrote: »

Galway had double decker in the early 80s, I think they were all gone by the 90s. They are using double decker now but I don't know when they were brought back.. 2000s I would guess.

The new ADL Hybrid double deck's should be making their way to BÉ in Galway very soon.

Anyone know what date they will arrive to add to the current double deck fleet?

riddlinrussell wrote: »

I think you're getting crossed wires, I'm saying that what you (and I) am describing, I would consider 'BRT', with no need for specialised vehicles.

The most rapid aspect of such a service would be enforced bus lanes for the whole length, no need to purchase bendy buses.

Its not about a need to purchase bendy buses, there should be a want to purchase bendy buses. Modern articulated buses are far superior to whatever bus people used decades ago and are also superior to modern double deckers. When coupled with offboard ticketing (very simple in this day and age), the multiple doors allow for very fast boarding/alighting which when also combined with continuous bus lanes makes for fast services and hence greater frequencies. A huge amount of the lower saloon floor space on a double decker is taken up by circulation, space for buggies/wheelchairs and the stairs. They are not attractive for many people, those with children who may not want to or be able to go upstairs, those with mobility difficulties, anyone with a bulky item or bag who dont want to leave it unattended downstairs, etc.

Articulated buses are the backbone of bus services in cities around Europe, most of whom offer better services than here. The obsession with double deckers here seems to be based on the carrying capacity of double deckers and a bad experience CIE had with articulated buses ages ago. Since then, articulated buses have improved immensely and the carry capacity of double deckers has reduced as they try to offer some of the things inherent in articulated buses (multiple doors, space for buggies/wheelchairs). Unfortunately it is extremely difficult to change mindsets here, both in official Ireland and general public (as another poster here has conveniently proven).

Sam Russell wrote: »

Good to hear that - I hate bendy buses with a passion.

What is the point of bus lanes that are not enforced?

Why? Very many cities on the continent use bendy buses, they're better - higher capacity.

I believe Belfast BRT counts on bendy buses too.

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Its not about a need to purchase bendy buses, there should be a want to purchase bendy buses. Modern articulated buses are far superior to whatever bus people used decades ago and are also superior to modern double deckers. When coupled with offboard ticketing (very simple in this day and age), the multiple doors allow for very fast boarding/alighting which when also combined with continuous bus lanes makes for fast services and hence greater frequencies. A huge amount of the lower saloon floor space on a double decker is taken up by circulation, space for buggies/wheelchairs and the stairs. They are not attractive for many people, those with children who may not want to or be able to go upstairs, those with mobility difficulties, anyone with a bulky item or bag who dont want to leave it unattended downstairs, etc.

Articulated buses are the backbone of bus services in cities around Europe, most of whom offer better services than here. The obsession with double deckers here seems to be based on the carrying capacity of double deckers and a bad experience CIE had with articulated buses ages ago. Since then, articulated buses have improved immensely and the carry capacity of double deckers has reduced as they try to offer some of the things inherent in articulated buses (multiple doors, space for buggies/wheelchairs). Unfortunately it is extremely difficult to change mindsets here, both in official Ireland and general public (as another poster here has conveniently proven).

Exactly what I say. The issue is in the head (i.e. mindset) here...

Double-decker - obsolete, British, failed concept (good for a museum of tech though)
Single decker non-bendy - obsolete, suitable for small town at best

The whole Europe isn't using double-deckers in urban networks and is using modern bendy low floor buses as much as possible, they are better, high throughput, more doors for loading/unloading etc.

EDIT: Modern bendy buses are also more user friendly, for prams, luggage etc. I lived in cities that use them extensively along with tram systems and compared to that Dublin double-decker (or DD in England) is very unpleasant experience.

McGiver wrote: »

The "won't be provided" is probably a realistic opinion, but campaigning could (and I believe would) change it.

No point campaigning for something that you know won't be delivered (at least in the short to medium term) - you let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Better (if what you are interested in is public transport, and not simply trains) to campaign for a (in your opionion) sub-optimal solution now, in the hope of an optimal one later.

McGiver wrote: »

Also, tram track goes in the middle of the avenue, not on the sides, which will be situation of these quasi-BRT arrangements in Galway (if it actually happens). So you're down to major rehaul from BRT-like situation to tramway situation anyway.

The question I have asked "Gluas" advocates on this forum several times, but have not received an answer, is where in Galway city are these tram lines going to go? As in where specifically?

Because once we have decided to cordon off sections of existing road for public transport (which is what trams are), why not use those sections for buses (which are also public transport) now? The most politically courageous decision that the council will have to make is what sections of existing street we are going to reserve for public transport.

If you want to campaign for anything, campaign for that decision to be made - and sooner rather than later.

It's unambitious alright. I expected as much given unambiguous CMATS was, using 1970s thinking.

Deleted User wrote: »

As far as I can tell, College road will be the route for all buses, local, national, public & private.

If that is the case, I dont think a single lane bus gate will cut it. In the morning and evening peaks, you are going to have significant numbers of buses in both directions (local plus some regional buses in, national and some regional buses out) and the bus gate will likely be a bottleneck limiting both. I dont think it will deliver the kind of benefits public transport needs to see a significant modal shift or justify the cost of this project. Like I said, continuous bus lanes can be provided in both directions by using both College Road and LAR. Not sure what locals think but I would have thought that was potentially less controversial than the current proposal.

Deleted User wrote: »

About the only good elements in this are
1. Bus gate on College Rd
2. It clarifies that the protected cycling infrastructure on the Dublin rd continues further than I originally through
3. It shows this protection continues towards Lough Atalia rd but that is only for about 100 meters at which point it ends by dumping cyclists right out in front of motor traffic

cgcsb wrote: »

It's unambitious alright.

I don't know how ye can say that it's unambitious or that there are only a few good elements in it. I must be reading a different proposal.

For starters, private cars are completely eliminated from:

1. The entire East side of the Cathedral
2. The Salmon Weir Bridge.
3. Newtownsmith North and the back of the Courthouse.
4. Eglinton St.
5. The North and North-East side of Eyre Square. The North side road where taxis (and other cars) currently go will be removed.
6. Forster St.

In additional there are Bus-Only lanes:

1. Outbound on St. Vincent's Avenue.
2. Inbound on Walsh's Terrace from Woodquay.
3. Inbound on St. Francis St.
4. Inboud on Williamsgate St.
5. Inbound on Eyre Square North.

There is also an additional Bus Lane being provided Outbound on College Road from Loyola Park to Moneenageisha, which will be most welcome.

The following areas are going to be pedestrianised:

1. The East Side of the Cathedral
2. Waterside at the back of the Courthouse.
3. Newtownsmith North, which will tie in nicely with the new pedestrian bridge to be built and with the River Walk.
4. Woodquay West.
5. Eyre Street East (outside Dealz).

And furthermore, for pedestrians there will be new pedestrian plazas at:

1. Cathedral East.
2. Woodquay - this has the potential to turn Woodquay into a great area.
3. Eyre Square North, with the removal of the taxi rank and its associated street.

Another pedestrian benefit will be the relocation of the daftly-placed pedestrian lights on University Road, to just outside the College. They are also going to provide a "raised table" at the junction with Canal Road. I'd have put pedestrian lights there too (or maybe instead of the other ones).

The following through-routes will now be impossible for private cars:

1. Accessing Eyre Square from anywhere East of the city. As well as the Bus Lanes on Forster St, the route from Prospect Hill will be blocked.
2. Accessing the City Centre via College Road.
3. Crossing the river from the Headford Road through town.

I accept the point that 07:00-19:00 may not be enough, but that window can be widened if necessary.

I also accept that there is not a lot of dedicated cycling infrastructure but pedestrians and public transport users are very well catered for in terms of infrastructure with this plan.

Overall, I think it's very welcome, and is a very good attempt at what many people have been crying out for.

serfboard wrote: »

I don't know why - maybe something to do with trucks coming from the Docks going down College Road, maybe something else.

Exactly - thats one of the main reasons it failed as a proposal. Sending HGV's down the main road that the two main public transport hubs in the City are located.... Never a good idea.

serfboard wrote: »

That doesn't make it unambitious now.

How is it not ambitious for pedestrians and public transport though?

How is it not ambitious for pedestrians and public transport though?

For East-West routes for car transport, there will be now only effectively two options - the Quincentennial bridge, and Wolfe Tone Bridge. And if you think that Wolfe Tone Bridge/Fr. Griffin Road presents any sort of realistic option for East-West car traffic, then you clearly don't regularly drive in Galway.

That is not the responsibility of those who come up with the design.

So, your complaints mostly relate to cycling.

As I said, it is ambitious for pedestrians and public transport users.

It would have been ambitious in 1980. Ignoring cycling exists despite cycling being a core element of bus connects says it all.

Anyway I hope this is implemented in full and maybe other measures can be brought in later.