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Galway - BusConnects

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,809 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Tender issued for new pedestrian and cycle bridge south of Salmon Weir bridge. I believe this is an important step in delivering BusConnects in Galway.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Absolutely, once its built the cross-city link will be opened



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,941 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Not sure that it needs to be a step for BusConnects, Council probably have made it to be; as its simpler for them to project management them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,680 ✭✭✭serfboard


    I'd agree with you that it doesn't need to be a step for BusConnects, but I'd disagree as to the possible reason - my speculation is that the Council are trying to delay the inevitable shut down of the Salmon Weir bridge to car traffic for as long as possible. Once the Salmon Weir bridge is shutdown, East->West traffic is going to grind to a halt on the QCB and around the docks.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The flipside being buses will no longer be stuck in traffic and will fly along



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,941 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Ya this is a possible reason, I think they are slowly coming around to 21st Century though.

    They have very much a silo approach though to anything they touch.

    It is in-built into the current system they have + staffing levels are low.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,321 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Thread bump. Is this project gone into the either? The bus connects website seems to refer only to Dublin and Cork. Strange that the council is managing the Galway scheme but the nta is looking after Cork and Dublin, seems illogical. Anyway would I be correct in summarising by saying that Galway Bus Connects consists only of the cross city link and the Dublin Road corridor? There are no plans for further corridors? Seems a waste of the 'BusConnects' brand tbh



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,941 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Ya thats it. 1 line. Re Brand. If it is done right in Galway City Centre - could be transformational though?

    Restricting the Salmon Weir Bridge from Private cars is pretty radical by Irish standards( even if it is only from 08h00 -> 20h00 )



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,527 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    They could try getting College Road and Lough Atalia Road as a one way system to improve flow for buses.

    [Is that not was tried when they were lowering the road under the railway bridge?]



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Buses would still be stuck in general traffic though if that option were chosen. The cross city link, while far from perfect in many aspects, is a better option as is gives buses free flow through what is typically very congested stretches.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,527 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I was thinking of a bus plus cycle lane and a single lane for other vehicles - one way.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    bus+bike in the same lane does not encourage modal switch for either lane users

    bus passengers get slowed down when stuck behind bikes

    cyclists, the most vulnerable, sharing the lane with the largest and heaviest vehicles does not encourage use of the bike as its f'in terrifying



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,527 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I did not say there would be a shared lane for bikes and buses.

    I would expect there could be two way cycle lane for each road as bikes are more likely to use it if it is both ways.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    My apologies, I took the following to be referring to a single lane for both

    I was thinking of a bus plus cycle lane



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Application will be submitted to ABP this Friday for the Cross City Link


    The plans for the 6.7 km Cross-City Link (University Road to Dublin Road) in the city centre will be submitted to An Bord Pleanála and documents will be made available this Friday, 16 September.

    The BusConnects Galway: Cross-City Link (University Road to Dublin Road) scheme is part of the wider Galway Transport Strategy developed by Galway City Council, Galway County Council, and the National Transport Authority in 2016.

    Galway City Council will make a Compulsory Purchase Order for the lands necessary for the scheme, and that order will be subject to confirmation by An Bord Pleanála.  

    Newspaper notices will be in local and national papers this Friday, 16 September 2022 and project documentation will then be available on the scheme website at www.crosscitylinkgalway.ie 

    Hard copy documents can be viewed in City Hall, from 9am to 4pm, Monday to Friday, from Wednesday 21 September to Friday 18 November 2022.  



    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,941 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    It looks like ZERO change from the public consultation. It is very weak for cycling provision. Good thread from IrishCycle on twitter about it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,941 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Sometimes I wonder do City Council even acknowledge that NUIG exists. The lack of cycling infrastructure around NUIG in this Bus Connects plan is a sight to behold.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The plans have been submitted for the Cross city link


    Documentation on the proposal is available below




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Something to look forward to based on the current bus connects plan for Galway




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,527 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I would suggest passing that video to the Gardai and the Taxi regulator.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    Why should the cyclist have the right to delay 70+ people who may have been on the bus?

    Let me get this right, it's wrong that cars get to hold up buses but no problem when cyclists do?

    Why didn't the cylist pull over and let faster moving vehicles overtake?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,527 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Did you look at the taxi driver shouting and abusing the cyclist? He was threatening the cyclist by driving very (too) close to him and trying to intimidate him.

    It was not a taxi lane, it was a bus and cycle lane. The cyclist had every right to cycle there and should not have been threatened by the taxi driver. The taxi driver could have pulled into the main traffic lane if he was being held up, while the cyclist had nowhere else to go. They have no trouble doing that if the bus in front of them stops at a bus stop.

    Why does it matter if the cyclist was holding other people up - are the slow to be forced to stay at home? When walking ,do you push past people in wheel chairs who are going slowly, or force past mothers with toddlers on their little scooters?

    Sounds like you need to slow down and smell the flowers and hear the birds.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You want cyclists out of bus lanes build protected bike infrastructure.

    Trust me, there'll be f all cyclists in your bus lane then.

    Or designate the bus lane as cycling infrastructure and suffer the delays as a result 🤷‍♂️

    It's a simple choice



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,809 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    He doesn't give a crap about those on the bus, they are just a convenient thing to include in his rant mistakely believed to be some sort of smokescreen for general ignorance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    You're right, instead of cars impeding buses like the old days, let's have bus lanes full of cyclists impede the buses.

    That cyclist was a complete moron. He could have pulled in and allow others overtake.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,527 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Pulled in to where?

    There is a cycle/bus lane where the cyclist is correctly in. To the left is a footpath only to be used by pedestrians (and illegally by parked cars and vans). To the right is a traffic lane filled with cars and vans.

    So should the cyclist dismount and walk his bike on the footpath, just to allow a shouting taxi driver to pass?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,809 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    There is nothing to suggest that the cyclist impeded the bus. In urban areas speeds are limited anyway and buses generally have to make regular stops which brings their average speed similar to that of a cyclist. The bus was actually impeded by the driver being a dick but you are happy to overlook that.

    The cyclist did nothing wrong and the fact you think he did proves your bias, despite your attempt to hide it with faux concern for the bus passengers. The only moron is the taxi driver who was the cause of all problems there.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,992 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Although buses shouldn't be impeded in this case the cyclist was being threatened and harassed, people attacking the cyclist here should focus their attention on the taxi driver's bad behaviour instead, he's the problem.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This is a copy from a post of mine on the Galway Traffic thread on the Galway forum. I'm copying it here as it refers to BusConnects for some of the proposals

    --------------------------------------------------

    What follows is a look at the proposed Park & Rides for Galway City as presented by GCC to Councilors recently. Various attachments referenced are included at the end of the post. Its a long post, but it condenses down nearly 50 pages of content from the NTA & GCC, so hopefully its of interest

    First up, some bits from the NTA draft proposal for P&R's for Galway City.

    Vision

    To support sustainable growth in the regions, urban areas, and rural settlements through enhancing connectivity to high quality, accessible, low emission, and sustainable transport; empowering modal shift and increasing the catchment areas of existing and future public transport by delivering a network of appropriate Park and Ride facilities.

    Objectives for Park & Ride

    To maximise the opportunities provided by on-going investment in public transport infrastructure and services, particularly in relation to the commencement of service of new public transport projects.

    1. To provide the appropriate type and scale of Park & Ride at the right locations, with connectivity to the road and public transport networks and design that supports integration with the surrounding walking and cycling network.
    2. Reduce reliance on the private car, reduce distances travelled by car and ensure Park & Ride facilitates greater use of sustainable modes.
    3. Deliver an enhanced customer experience through safe, secure, and user-friendly facilities that considers opportunities for interchange and to address barriers to public transport use.
    4. To set the standard for the design and layout of Park & Ride sites.

    Plans & Strategies

    There's a long LOOOOONG list of documents that call these out for Galway city, going back nearly 2 decades. I won't list them, but they cover several pages of the NTA document

    Demand

    The figures shown below are morning peak numbers only, not rush hour totals or AADT figures

    To show why this is an issue, taking a quick look at the Claregalway (Loughgeorge) traffic counter on the TII site shows the following for that counter (note, I think they have North & South mixed up on their site)

    So the 1390 figure they list is pretty much blown out of the water by 7am, with hourly figures of between 500-800 until about 7 in the evening. A weekday average traffic count for this location is going towards the city is just shy of 10,000 vehicles. Just to remind you, the P&R proposed is for 320 spaces and the bus service will only run to Parkmore. With such a limited size and scope for that location in particular, I can't see how this can ever be a high frequency service of the kind needed to entice users

    The overview

    • 6 sites
    • Total of 1790 spaces (includes 140 pre-existing)

    At first glance

    The positives are

    • this is a good geographical spread with a facility on almost all arterial routes.
    • includes bus lanes on some sections

    The negatives are

    • the sizes are woefully below what is needed before they are even built
    • there should be one on the N67 before Oranmore to save people having to drive through the village to get to the P&R
    • There should be one on the R446 (Old Dublin rd)
    • the bus lanes, where proposed, are inadequate. Anyone who has ever been stuck in Claregalway or on the M6/N6 can see from the red lines on the map above, that congestion extends well beyond the proposed bus lanes which defeats the whole purpose
    • No bus priority measures planned for any of the others which means anyone using the service will be taking a diversion, parking, waiting for a bus, getting to the end of the bus travel, walk and do the same in reverse, all while not getting any benefit of quicker travel. Doesn't seem very enticing and will likely have low takeup as a result on all those other locations
    • The N6 P&R looks like its intended to take traffic from the N6/M6 as well as the Monivea Road, can't see many Monivea rd users taking the diversion without the benefit of a full bus lane as previously mentioned.

    The sequence of implementation

    The 3 circled in green will be built in the short term (in GCC speak, this means a <10 year timeframe) with the Oranmore site seeing an extension to the existing carpark to double the size of it. Note the N83 (Tuam rd) site is only planned to have a bus service to and from Parkmore

    The N59 has a site ready for the P&R but adding a bus lane complicates this one so its on a "longer" timeframe, see 10+ years

    The R336 (Barna rd) and N84 (Headford rd) are listed as maybe, possibly, hopefully, being done under BusConnects despite there being nothing in BusConnects about these facilities

    Physical Infrastructure

    Looking at the N6 P&R facility first

    Things to note

    • Horrendously undersized (550) for the potential volume of users, should be 4 times as big
    • Bus priority lanes are actually only towards the city, so returning to your car in the evenings, yeah, enjoy that 1 hour bus ride to go 1-2km
    • Granted the drawing is light on detail, but nothing indicating shelters or provision for bikes. Secure bike storage facilities should be a default for these as they are within easy cycling distance for those who wish to do choose this mode (why wouldn't you want more choosing to avoid driving into the city)
    • As mentioned, bus lane is too short
    • Without some form of camera monitoring or bus gate access, the bus lane will be swamped by cars "chancing their arm" on a daily basis. The hard shoulder is, the bus lane will be no different

    Next up, Claregalway

    Things to note

    • Same comment regarding shelters and secure bike storage
    • Also horrendously undersized (320 spaces) for the potential volume of users, should be 3 times as big
    • The bus lanes.....where to start. None north of Claregalway to the P&R, intermittent North/South lanes after that. This will not entice users in any way. There should be a full bus lanes from the site, to Parkmore junction
    • One positive, based on the drawings it looks like they are planning additional paths. If there is scope to widen these even a little, they could be a shared surface allowing safe cycling to and from the P&R site (if they ran both sides)

    Lastly, Oranmore, no need to add a pic, they are just doubling the size of the existing facility. Has the same issues, even doubling it, it will still be undersized, there's no plans for secure bike storage and so on. Note this one doesn't come under the bus lanes as its served by rail only

    Next steps

    Per the presentation

    • Preparation of Options Selection Reports
    • Preparation of planning documentation including Environmental Impact Assessment Reports
    • Discussion with landowners on agreements
    • Development of options for bus services
    • Submission of Planning Applications (target mid 2023)

    Honestly, I don't see these going into planning before 2024, possibly 2025. If the bus lanes are part of the applications you might be looking at 2026 or later with GCC having form for this, see the GTS which was released in 2016 and the first bus lane planning application was submitted just 4 weeks ago.

    As an aside, I know I am critical here, but I think rightfully so. They have been talking about this since the mid 2000's and now what is proposed looks like the Salthill bike lane in nature i.e. designed in such a way as to fail before its even had a chance to be a success.

    With just a little bit more ambition, this proposal could have been amazing.

    • Increase the sizes
    • Include the missing routes
    • Get them all built within 5 years
    • Full bus lanes to all
    • and so on

    It should also be noted, that without workplace parking levies or congestion charges, these will also face low user numbers. Carrot & stick and all that jazz

    4(a) PR STRATEGY Galway_Full Report_draft_05.10.2022.pdf

    Uploaded Oct 17, 20222.28 MB

    4(a) Park and Ride Development Office Presentation_Galway City Council Meetin.._.pdf

    Uploaded Oct 17, 20222.49 MB



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  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭brianc89


    Not sure is there another thread somewhere on Galway Bus Connects? This thread is very quiet.

    What's the general sense on the proposed routes? I'm from rural Galway but live in Dublin, so I'm unfamiliar with current Galway city routes.

    My general sense is the proposed routes look quite haphazard and disconnected. But I'm probably comparing to Dublin's core network, which is more clearly defined (spines etc).

    Public Consultations ongoing this week:


    Galway Bus Connects site:




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