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Galway - BusConnects

  • 12-06-2018 1:16am
    #1
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,235 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    200m in the NDP for the Galway BusConnects scheme, which will likely heavily involve using the old N6 Bothar na dTreabh which is to be freed up for multimodal use in circa. 2025 when the new Ring Road is built (planning permisson pending)

    From the existing Bus Eireann Galway network:
    In Galway, the corresponding figures are 9km of bus lane on 132km of routes (10pc).

    Several pinch points have also been identified - particularly around industrial estates and accessing Eyre Square, where speeds at peak times range from 2.6kmh to 24kmh, but the average is just 9.6kmh.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/bus-speeds-in-some-cities-average-just-1kmh-amid-fears-of-1m-timetable-target-fines-36996316.html


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Comments

  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,235 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    CEO of Galway City Council on RTE Radio 1 this morning:

    Non-statutory public consultation to begin in September 2018
    Submission to An Bord Pleanala in Q1 2019
    Expected construction start in 2020
    Rationalisation of existing network from 11 routes to 5 routes.
    77% of the population within 10 minutes walk of a bus stop
    Network of P&R sites to be built on approaches to the city with full integration to the bus network


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,993 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    5 routes?

    I can't see how that's going to increase usage as Those are going to be some long-ass routes


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CatInABox


    DaCor wrote: »
    5 routes?

    I can't see how that's going to increase usage as Those are going to be some long-ass routes

    At a guess, I'd imagine that the 5 routes are going to be going to be similar to the "spines" in the Dublin BusConnects plan, going into the city centre and out the other side. In other words, those 5 routes are technically ten routes.

    I'll admit though, I have no clue about public transport in Galway, don't even know the existing routes or anything.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,680 ✭✭✭ correct horse battery staple


    Is there a map of proposed routes in Galway?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,911 ✭✭✭✭ Fitz*


    I really hope that the revised bus timetables that came into place in Galway recently are not the only changes that are being made.

    Maria Byrne, in the Regional Manager's Office for BE said that the changes to these timetables were going to improve the service. The change they made was that a bus leaves ONE stop 2 minutes earlier than before. That was the only change that was made to the entire route and service. And this change isn't even being adhered to. Laughable.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,911 ✭✭✭✭ Fitz*


    CatInABox wrote: »
    At a guess, I'd imagine that the 5 routes are going to be going to be similar to the "spines" in the Dublin BusConnects plan, going into the city centre and out the other side. In other words, those 5 routes are technically ten routes.

    I'll admit though, I have no clue about public transport in Galway, don't even know the existing routes or anything.

    As far as I know, the people who set the routes for Galway are actually sitting in an office in Dublin. Are they even aware of which roads are heaviest for traffic?

    Some bus routes take some crazy directions that make little sense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭ McGiver


    There must be one orbital route and/or direct routes from residential hubs to the business parks in the East avoiding the city center. I hope they plan some.

    And, I repeat, no cash - a total electronic fare solution, driver not handling fare/cash. And then also two-three door buses, hind doors for unloading, front door for loading.

    Stopping at one stop to handle cash/fare and load/unload, can't take 1 minute as it does now, it must be 10 seconds. The traffic must flow.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,477 youngrun


    Are there any documents on this plan from Galway City council or other sources


  • Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭ Ruhanna


    McGiver wrote: »
    There must be one orbital route and/or direct routes from residential hubs to the business parks in the East avoiding the city center. I hope they plan some.

    And, I repeat, no cash - a total electronic fare solution, driver not handling fare/cash. And then also two-three door buses, hind doors for unloading, front door for loading.

    Stopping at one stop to handle cash/fare and load/unload, can't take 1 minute as it does now, it must be 10 seconds. The traffic must flow.


    Of course there isn't one in the Galway Transport Strategy.

    The entire purpose of the GTS (and all the 'analysis' that went into it) is to justify the foregone conclusion that has been the only game in town for 25 years: a "bypass" or a ring road as it's being called now.

    For that reason, an orbital bus service would only serve to undermine the case for a ring road, so the GTS is partly based on the patently ridiculous premise that there are enough people commuting across town to justify a ring road costing two thirds of a billion Euro but not enough to justify a bus service.

    An orbital bus route was part of the City Council Transport Unit's Business Plan, but they did nothing about it (naturally) and suddenly started to oppose it when a ring road for car commuters (as opposed to an outer bypass for non-city traffic) became the new object of desire.

    The National Transport Authority, while supporting the spending of €650 million on a motorway, says that an orbital bus route would not be viable, and therefore plans to leave cross-town commuters without such a service.

    This policy of ignoring bus commuters while prioritising car commuters is also endorsed by the County Council and Galway Chamber of Commerce.


  • Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭ Ruhanna


    youngrun wrote: »
    Are there any documents on this plan from Galway City council or other sources


    Here you go: https://www.galwaycity.ie/galway-transport-strategy


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,477 youngrun


    Ruhanna wrote: »
    Of course there isn't one in the Galway Transport Strategy.

    The entire purpose of the GTS (and all the 'analysis' that went into it) is to justify the foregone conclusion that has been the only game in town for 25 years: a "bypass" or a ring road as it's being called now.

    For that reason, an orbital bus service would only serve to undermine the case for a ring road, so the GTS is partly based on the patently ridiculous premise that there are enough people commuting across town to justify a ring road costing two thirds of a billion Euro but not enough to justify a bus service.

    An orbital bus route was part of the City Council Transport Unit's Business Plan, but they did nothing about it (naturally) and suddenly started to oppose it when a ring road for car commuters (as opposed to an outer bypass for non-city traffic) became the new object of desire.

    The National Transport Authority, while supporting the spending of €650 million on a motorway, says that an orbital bus route would not be viable, and therefore plans to leave cross-town commuters without such a service.

    This policy of ignoring bus commuters while prioritising car commuters is also endorsed by the County Council and Galway Chamber of Commerce.


    Thanks
    Hard to believe no orbital route ? Surely this is essential given huge numbers of cross city commuters .


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,680 ✭✭✭ correct horse battery staple


    youngrun wrote: »
    Thanks
    Hard to believe no orbital route ? Surely this is essential given huge numbers of cross city commuters .

    Yep yet we have people telling us Galway does not need a bypass as buses will solve everything, only to find out there is not an orbital bus route


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,235 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭ what_traffic


    marno21 wrote: »

    Would like to see the plans for this. A bus corridor through the Hospital Grounds as well?
    Chief Executive of the City Council, Brendan McGrath, confirmed that the Browne roundabout in Westside (to the rear of the hospital at Corrib Park) will be removed to make way for a five-arm traffic light junction.

    Does that mean 24/7 access into the Hospital. Currently have a gate on this arm during night time.

    The Tribal Roundabouts of Galway City look like they are finally going the way of the DODO
    Meanwhile, Uinsinn Finn, Senior Executive Engineer, confirmed that plans to remove Browne roundabout will proceed once Compulsory Purchase Orders issue for the removal of Kirwan Roundabout (at Menlo Park Hotel). Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII) will fund the cost of the works.

    Mr Finn said also confirmed that plans are in the pipeline to remove the Martin roundabout (at Galway Clinic) and convert to a signalised junction; to remove Skerritt Roundabout (at GMIT) to replace it with traffic lights; and to remove D’Arcy Roundabout (Seapoint) and put in traffic lights


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,477 youngrun


    Yep yet we have people telling us Galway does not need a bypass as buses will solve everything, only to find out there is not an orbital bus route

    I cannot believe there is no demand for an orbital bus route ? Who on earth drew up this study and have they seen the traffic numbers cross city daily ? Its as plain as day theres a need for multiple cross city buses on the QCB/BNT and DR/Oranmore road areas east west


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭ what_traffic


    youngrun wrote: »
    I cannot believe there is no demand for an orbital bus route ? Who on earth drew up this study and have they seen the traffic numbers cross city daily ? Its as plain as day theres a need for multiple cross city buses on the QCB/BNT and DR/Oranmore road areas east west

    I guess you gotta ask - in whose interest does it serve that an orbital bus route is not provided for?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,306 ✭✭✭ serfboard


    Ruhanna wrote: »
    An orbital bus service would only serve to undermine the case for a ring road, so the GTS is partly based on the patently ridiculous premise that there are enough people commuting across town to justify a ring road costing two thirds of a billion Euro but not enough to justify a bus service.
    Yep yet we have people telling us Galway does not need a bypass as buses will solve everything, only to find out there is not an orbital bus route
    youngrun wrote: »
    I cannot believe there is no demand for an orbital bus route ? Who on earth drew up this study and have they seen the traffic numbers cross city daily ? Its as plain as day theres a need for multiple cross city buses on the QCB/BNT and DR/Oranmore road areas east west
    I guess you gotta ask - in whose interest does it serve that an orbital bus route is not provided for?
    This is really something that the Comptroller and Auditor General should be investigating - before the big spend on the Bypass. I can just imagine the report from that office in years to come:
    The bypass has not solved the traffic problems in Galway despite the hundreds of millions being spent on it.

    The decision not to provide an Orbital Bus Service in Galway was a grave mistake driven by a car-centric mindset at the Local Authority.


  • Registered Users Posts: 918 ✭✭✭ riddlinrussell


    Galway Busconnects - Dublin Road corridor consultation has begun

    https://www.bcgdublinroad.ie/pages/home.php


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,194 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    A non statutory consultation on only one corridor that doesnt extend into the city centre and is already wide enough, 2 years after the strategy was launched. Wow, such progress.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,298 ✭✭✭ Pete_Cavan


    I assume they are starting with the easy route to get the ball rolling rather than fighting battles all over the city at the same time like in Dublin. They even drop the bus lane in front of the Connacht Hotel, I assume to avoid creating controversy with buying out the cottage beside it. It would make more sense to drop the eastbound bus lane which could be provided later if the cottage and a strip in front of the hotel was bought later.

    Galway is such a disaster in the way it was planned and developed for decades that there are very few easy wins for BusConnects. I assume the only option for getting bus lanes into the city centre will be one was systems on College Road and Lough Atalia Road with one of the lanes on each becoming a bus lane?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,194 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    Bus connects Dublin already solved the issue of providing bus priority and maintaining car access on much more complex and lengthy roads using priority lights, one way systems etc. Problem is this requires enforcement either by gardai or local authority.

    The gardai are not interested. Dublin City Council might be shamed into some minimum level enforcement out of laziness. There's a 0% chance of Galway Council enforcing any such thing because of small town thinking.

    The NTA could use camera enforcement but that requires a law change and there's no political will for giving fines to good decent pillars of the community who want to drive/park illegally wherever they like without consequence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭ tharlear


    I love the picture of the bike lane separated from the road by a wall. Although it would need to be at least 1.5 tall to stop people just walking on the bike path. Pity they did not do this on Seamus Quirke road.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭ McGiver


    Galway Busconnects - Dublin Road corridor consultation has begun

    https://www.bcgdublinroad.ie/pages/home.php

    The website has a very poor design (actually, even to the point of being comical in 2020). The picture on the top of the landing page shows a bus which looks like 1980s bus. Any under-graduate would create a more decent website.

    The visualisations and photomontages look like done by a high-school student :rolleyes:

    https://storage.net-fs.com/hosting/6414124/7/index.htm

    I'd like to know how much did the [whoever ordered this] paid for this. Assuming taxpayer's money was spent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭ McGiver


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Bus connects Dublin already solved the issue of providing bus priority and maintaining car access on much more complex and lengthy roads using priority lights, one way systems etc. Problem is this requires enforcement either by gardai or local authority.

    The gardai are not interested. Dublin City Council might be shamed into some minimum level enforcement out of laziness. There's a 0% chance of Galway Council enforcing any such thing because of small town thinking.

    The NTA could use camera enforcement but that requires a law change and there's no political will for giving fines to good decent pillars of the community who want to drive/park illegally wherever they like without consequence.
    That's why you need light-rail. BRT is an Asian/Latin American and marginally North American & UK thing. Nobody seriously considers BRT as a primary urban public transport solution in Europe. It would be left as a last option if you can't do anything else for whatever reason.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭ what_traffic


    McGiver wrote: »
    The website has a very poor design (actually, even to the point of being comical in 2020). The picture on the top of the landing page shows a bus which looks like 1980s bus. Any under-graduate would create a more decent website.

    The visualisations and photomontages look like done by a high-school student :rolleyes:

    https://storage.net-fs.com/hosting/6414124/7/index.htm

    I'd like to know how much did the [whoever ordered this] paid for this. Assuming taxpayer's money was spent.

    City Council Roads Dept. Road in question is not a National Road. Would need to get a local Cllr to ask at a Council meeting for this specific cost of the Website. Overall cost figures probably available on the Council website itself if you start digging.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    McGiver wrote: »
    That's why you need light-rail. BRT is an Asian/Latin American and marginally North American & UK thing. Nobody seriously considers BRT as a primary urban public transport solution in Europe. It would be left as a last option if you can't do anything else for whatever reason.

    They have trolley buses in Geneva which is a form of BRT. It works for them, but Geneva is a small place. Not sure of other Swiss cities.


  • Registered Users Posts: 918 ✭✭✭ riddlinrussell


    McGiver wrote: »
    That's why you need light-rail. BRT is an Asian/Latin American and marginally North American & UK thing. Nobody seriously considers BRT as a primary urban public transport solution in Europe. It would be left as a last option if you can't do anything else for whatever reason.

    On current Cost-Benefit calculations not many places in Ireland meet the criteria for building light rail, given that light rail will invariably be mostly on street running in Irish cities I see no reason why they couldn't start as BRT with a view to becoming light rail in the future, given it is considerably cheaper?

    There is documentation available on this from the Belfast BRT schemes. Wesley Johnson I think has some of it written up in his sections on the Glider.
    http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/belfastrapidtransit.html

    Now its not going to be 1:1 applicable but you can see the reason they went for the BRT.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,298 ✭✭✭ Pete_Cavan


    Does Galway have much of a bus fleet at present? I think Galway (and our other small cities) should go with single level articulated buses. They can look much more sleek than a bulky double decker, are more comfortable inside, have more doors for faster boarding/alighting, are better able to accommodate buggies, wheelchairs, etc. Long stops would have to be provided but would work well on continuous bus lanes like those proposed on Dublin Road (and hopefully on numerous other roads in Galway).


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,306 ✭✭✭ serfboard


    McGiver wrote: »
    That's why you need light-rail.
    Light rail is not needed and won't be provided. Bus Connects is all that is on offer for Galway.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Does Galway have much of a bus fleet at present? I think Galway (and our other small cities) should go with single level articulated buses. They can look much more sleek than a bulky double decker, are more comfortable inside, have more doors for faster boarding/alighting, are better able to accommodate buggies, wheelchairs, etc. Long stops would have to be provided but would work well on continuous bus lanes like those proposed on Dublin Road (and hopefully on numerous other roads in Galway).

    Having suffered the bendy buses on the No 10 route, bouncing along in the back, I would not recommend them. In fact, Dublin bus has got rid of them all.

    If you need single decker buses, get ones that have at least 4 axles and look like trams.


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