Galway - BusConnects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119522066#Comment_119522066

Buses would still be stuck in general traffic though if that option were chosen. The cross city link, while far from perfect in many aspects, is a better option as is gives buses free flow through what is typically very congested stretches.

Sam Russell

They could try getting College Road and Lough Atalia Road as a one way system to improve flow for buses.

[Is that not was tried when they were lowering the road under the railway bridge?]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119515516#Comment_119515516

Ya thats it. 1 line. Re Brand. If it is done right in Galway City Centre - could be transformational though?

Restricting the Salmon Weir Bridge from Private cars is pretty radical by Irish standards( even if it is only from 08h00 -> 20h00 )

Thread bump. Is this project gone into the either? The bus connects website seems to refer only to Dublin and Cork. Strange that the council is managing the Galway scheme but the nta is looking after Cork and Dublin, seems illogical. Anyway would I be correct in summarising by saying that Galway Bus Connects consists only of the cross city link and the Dublin Road corridor? There are no plans for further corridors? Seems a waste of the 'BusConnects' brand tbh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118282518#Comment_118282518

Ya this is a possible reason, I think they are slowly coming around to 21st Century though.

They have very much a silo approach though to anything they touch.

It is in-built into the current system they have + staffing levels are low.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118282518#Comment_118282518

The flipside being buses will no longer be stuck in traffic and will fly along

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118282357#Comment_118282357

I'd agree with you that it doesn't need to be a step for BusConnects, but I'd disagree as to the possible reason - my speculation is that the Council are trying to delay the inevitable shut down of the Salmon Weir bridge to car traffic for as long as possible. Once the Salmon Weir bridge is shutdown, East->West traffic is going to grind to a halt on the QCB and around the docks.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118274223#Comment_118274223

Not sure that it needs to be a step for BusConnects, Council probably have made it to be; as its simpler for them to project management them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118274223#Comment_118274223

Absolutely, once its built the cross-city link will be opened

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders/ViewNotice/253945

Tender issued for new pedestrian and cycle bridge south of Salmon Weir bridge. I believe this is an important step in delivering BusConnects in Galway.

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Perhaps I am missing something very obvious here but when I click the Online Submission Form (English or Gaeilge) the message says "BusConnects Galway: Cross-City Link (University Road to Dublin Road - Submission Form) is closed".

Is the consultation not live for another two weeks?

Should be

You can also send your comments to

busconnects@galwaycity.ie

Deleted User wrote: »

Next part of this has been released for non-statutory consultation

Consultation commences on the 22nd of October 2020, and will run for a minimum period of 6 weeks.

The Cross City Link

Galway City Council info - https://www.galwaycity.ie/busconnects-galway-cross-city-link

Virtual Portal - https://virtualengage.arup.com/busconnects-galway-cross-city-link/index.html

Perhaps I am missing something very obvious here but when I click the Online Submission Form (English or Gaeilge) the message says "BusConnects Galway: Cross-City Link (University Road to Dublin Road - Submission Form) is closed".

Is the consultation not live for another two weeks?

serfboard wrote: »

That doesn't make it unambitious now.

How is it not ambitious for pedestrians and public transport though?

How is it not ambitious for pedestrians and public transport though?

For East-West routes for car transport, there will be now only effectively two options - the Quincentennial bridge, and Wolfe Tone Bridge. And if you think that Wolfe Tone Bridge/Fr. Griffin Road presents any sort of realistic option for East-West car traffic, then you clearly don't regularly drive in Galway.

That is not the responsibility of those who come up with the design.

So, your complaints mostly relate to cycling.

As I said, it is ambitious for pedestrians and public transport users.

It would have been ambitious in 1980. Ignoring cycling exists despite cycling being a core element of bus connects says it all.

Anyway I hope this is implemented in full and maybe other measures can be brought in later.

cgcsb wrote: »

- Decdades overdue

That doesn't make it unambitious now.

cgcsb wrote: »

-No provision for cycling in the City Centre other than shared bus lanes

How is it not ambitious for pedestrians and public transport though?

cgcsb wrote: »

-Junctions look particularly bad for cycling, forget about turning right on your bike

How is it not ambitious for pedestrians and public transport though?

cgcsb wrote: »

-Fr Griffin Rd, the more direct route for east-west journeys will remain car dominated, this could be used to provide bus priority and/or a safe cycling route to the west of the city.

For East-West routes for car transport, there will be now only effectively two options - the Quincentennial bridge, and Wolfe Tone Bridge. And if you think that Wolfe Tone Bridge/Fr. Griffin Road presents any sort of realistic option for East-West car traffic, then you clearly don't regularly drive in Galway.

cgcsb wrote: »

-Although the new bus provision is good, the proposal doesn't include any enforcement measures.

That is not the responsibility of those who come up with the design.

So, your complaints mostly relate to cycling.

As I said, it is ambitious for pedestrians and public transport users.

serfboard wrote: »

I don't know why - maybe something to do with trucks coming from the Docks going down College Road, maybe something else.

Exactly - thats one of the main reasons it failed as a proposal. Sending HGV's down the main road that the two main public transport hubs in the City are located.... Never a good idea.

It's unambitious because:

-Decdades overdue
-No provision for cycling in the City Centre other than shared bus lanes
-Junctions look particularly bad for cycling, forget about turning right on your bike
-Fr Griffin Rd, the more direct route for east-west journeys will remain car dominated, this could be used to provide bus priority and/or a safe cycling route to the west of the city.
-Although the new bus provision is good, the proposal doesn't include any enforcement measures. In Dublin the existing voluntary/suggested bus lanes get about 60-70% compliance, expect it to be less in Galway given the different driving culture.

Deleted User wrote: »

About the only good elements in this are
1. Bus gate on College Rd
2. It clarifies that the protected cycling infrastructure on the Dublin rd continues further than I originally through
3. It shows this protection continues towards Lough Atalia rd but that is only for about 100 meters at which point it ends by dumping cyclists right out in front of motor traffic

cgcsb wrote: »

It's unambitious alright.

I don't know how ye can say that it's unambitious or that there are only a few good elements in it. I must be reading a different proposal.

For starters, private cars are completely eliminated from:

1. The entire East side of the Cathedral
2. The Salmon Weir Bridge.
3. Newtownsmith North and the back of the Courthouse.
4. Eglinton St.
5. The North and North-East side of Eyre Square. The North side road where taxis (and other cars) currently go will be removed.
6. Forster St.

In additional there are Bus-Only lanes:

1. Outbound on St. Vincent's Avenue.
2. Inbound on Walsh's Terrace from Woodquay.
3. Inbound on St. Francis St.
4. Inboud on Williamsgate St.
5. Inbound on Eyre Square North.

There is also an additional Bus Lane being provided Outbound on College Road from Loyola Park to Moneenageisha, which will be most welcome.

The following areas are going to be pedestrianised:

1. The East Side of the Cathedral
2. Waterside at the back of the Courthouse.
3. Newtownsmith North, which will tie in nicely with the new pedestrian bridge to be built and with the River Walk.
4. Woodquay West.
5. Eyre Street East (outside Dealz).

And furthermore, for pedestrians there will be new pedestrian plazas at:

1. Cathedral East.
2. Woodquay - this has the potential to turn Woodquay into a great area.
3. Eyre Square North, with the removal of the taxi rank and its associated street.

Another pedestrian benefit will be the relocation of the daftly-placed pedestrian lights on University Road, to just outside the College. They are also going to provide a "raised table" at the junction with Canal Road. I'd have put pedestrian lights there too (or maybe instead of the other ones).

The following through-routes will now be impossible for private cars:

1. Accessing Eyre Square from anywhere East of the city. As well as the Bus Lanes on Forster St, the route from Prospect Hill will be blocked.
2. Accessing the City Centre via College Road.
3. Crossing the river from the Headford Road through town.

I accept the point that 07:00-19:00 may not be enough, but that window can be widened if necessary.

I also accept that there is not a lot of dedicated cycling infrastructure but pedestrians and public transport users are very well catered for in terms of infrastructure with this plan.

Overall, I think it's very welcome, and is a very good attempt at what many people have been crying out for.

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

If that is the case, I dont think a single lane bus gate will cut it. In the morning and evening peaks, you are going to have significant numbers of buses in both directions (local plus some regional buses in, national and some regional buses out) and the bus gate will likely be a bottleneck limiting both.

This would only happen if you were having buses every five seconds - which won't be the case. The proposal will eliminate through traffic from College Road, which will be a massive benefit.

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Like I said, continuous bus lanes can be provided in both directions by using both College Road and LAR. Not sure what locals think but I would have thought that was potentially less controversial than the current proposal.

That arrangement was (sort of) trialled last year. Sort of, because it was without Bus Lanes. Personally I thought they should have trialled it with Bus Lanes, but ...

Anyway, the results of the trial have fed into the current proposal, and as you can see, it was not deemed effective. I don't know why - maybe something to do with trucks coming from the Docks going down College Road, maybe something else.

Sam Russell

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

If that is the case, I dont think a single lane bus gate will cut it. In the morning and evening peaks, you are going to have significant numbers of buses in both directions (local plus some regional buses in, national and some regional buses out) and the bus gate will likely be a bottleneck limiting both. I dont think it will deliver the kind of benefits public transport needs to see a significant modal shift or justify the cost of this project. Like I said, continuous bus lanes can be provided in both directions by using both College Road and LAR. Not sure what locals think but I would have thought that was potentially less controversial than the current proposal.

That one way system would work well to form a loop to allow a basic free flow for traffic to go from Moneenageisha cross road to the city centre, with access to the railway and bus station.

It should work for access from Merlin Park and Renmore along the existing bus lane. That alone would be a good bit of progress.

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

If that is the case, I dont think a single lane bus gate will cut it. In the morning and evening peaks, you are going to have significant numbers of buses in both directions (local plus some regional buses in, national and some regional buses out) and the bus gate will likely be a bottleneck limiting both. I dont think it will deliver the kind of benefits public transport needs to see a significant modal shift or justify the cost of this project. Like I said, continuous bus lanes can be provided in both directions by using both College Road and LAR. Not sure what locals think but I would have thought that was potentially less controversial than the current proposal.

Even if there is the odd delay it'll still be many times faster than it is now

Deleted User wrote: »

As far as I can tell, College road will be the route for all buses, local, national, public & private.

If that is the case, I dont think a single lane bus gate will cut it. In the morning and evening peaks, you are going to have significant numbers of buses in both directions (local plus some regional buses in, national and some regional buses out) and the bus gate will likely be a bottleneck limiting both. I dont think it will deliver the kind of benefits public transport needs to see a significant modal shift or justify the cost of this project. Like I said, continuous bus lanes can be provided in both directions by using both College Road and LAR. Not sure what locals think but I would have thought that was potentially less controversial than the current proposal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKSCi1Z9R1g&feature=youtu.be

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Is this likely to be effective enough to allow a significant number of buses into/out of the city at peak times? Before they released these plans, I assumed that LAR (inbound) and College Road (outbound) would be made one way with a general traffic and bus lane on each (and ideally a cycle lane if space allowed). I think this would be a better solution and would benefit national and regional buses as well as city buses.

As far as I can tell, College road will be the route for all buses, local, national, public & private.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

About the only good elements in this are

1. Bus gate on College Rd

Is this likely to be effective enough to allow a significant number of buses into/out of the city at peak times? Before they released these plans, I assumed that LAR (inbound) and College Road (outbound) would be made one way with a general traffic and bus lane on each (and ideally a cycle lane if space allowed). I think this would be a better solution and would benefit national and regional buses as well as city buses.

It's unambitious alright. I expected as much given unambiguous CMATS was, using 1970s thinking.

Next part of this has been released for non-statutory consultation

Consultation commences on the 22nd of October 2020, and will run for a minimum period of 6 weeks.

The Cross City Link

Galway City Council info - https://www.galwaycity.ie/busconnects-galway-cross-city-link

Virtual Portal - https://virtualengage.arup.com/busconnects-galway-cross-city-link/index.html

Have to be honest, there's a lot I don't like in this

1. Its not 24hr, only 7am to 7pm.
2. There's virtually nothing in terms of protected cycling infrastructure
3. It keeps a farcical amount of onstreet parking
4. A lot of junctions still prioritise motor traffic when the only traffic will be buses & taxis

About the only good elements in this are

1. Bus gate on College Rd
2. It clarifies that the protected cycling infrastructure on the Dublin rd continues further than I originally through
3. It shows this protection continues towards Lough Atalia rd but that is only for about 100 meters at which point it ends by dumping cyclists right out in front of motor traffic