Turkish forces have started bombing and attacking Kurdish people in Syria

Overheal · 17-10-2019 9:26pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Not sure what the "even for you" is supposed to mean but it's quite clear from looking around on places like Twitter that those who were pearl clutching about the US withdrawal of troops, and what it would mean for the Kurds, aren't at all happy about the news of a ceasefire at all, which in my opinion they would be had their concern for the Kurds been genuine.

It does matter and did not 'pretend it didn't, in fact I condemned the withdrawal myself on this forum, but as you can see I am happy about the withdrawal ... because you see, my concern for the Kurds was genuine.

So you continue to insinuate that I’m not happy the Turks are putting a halt to a slaughter Trump facilitated? Because, I am. Doesn’t mean I have to celebrate it the way Trump would like me to

Do you think this is a “great day for civilization?” Myself I’m on the “bloodstain on the annals of Americans history” slant of this.

Blueshoe · 17-10-2019 9:52pm

Overheal wrote: »

Why do they need the ceasefire Hmm?

Because Turkey has decided that it wants a buffer zone between its borders and Syria.

Blueshoe · 17-10-2019 9:54pm

Skylinehead wrote: »

Yeah it's great that they have safe passage from their homes.

Blame Turkey.
Do any of you give his administration any kind of credit for negotiating a ceasefire?

Erdogan replied to Trump on twitter. What a world we live in

Skylinehead · 17-10-2019 10:17pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

Blame Turkey.
Do any of you give his administration any kind of credit for negotiating a ceasefire?

Erdogan replied to Trump on twitter. What a world we live in

Swear we already had this conversation yesterday, of course I blame Turkey.

No, I don't give the Trump administration any credit for effectively allowing Turkey to do what they want. Telling the Kurds to remove defences, removing the only troops stopping Turkey from rolling them over, and now this "ceasefire" driving Kurds from their homeland is to be lauded? Give over.

Overheal · 17-10-2019 10:37pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

Because Turkey has decided that it wants a buffer zone between its borders and Syria.

Oh :rolleyes: here’s me thinking it was because Trump capitulated to that desire

No, the administration does not get credit. It would be like Obama trying to celebrate getting all the guns back that were lost in Fast and Furious, or the drug cartels that got them agreeing to not use them for a business week. A total farce.

Blueshoe · 17-10-2019 10:39pm

I won't ever agree with either of you and vice versa so there is no point.

Gluck

Overheal · 17-10-2019 11:15pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

I won't ever agree with either of you and vice versa so there is no point.

Gluck

Obama would get credit from you for negotiating a 5 day ceasefire from drug cartels to not use the weapons they obtained as a result of Operation Fast and Furious?

Cody montana · 18-10-2019 11:54am

”Fighting continued in northern Syria between Turkish and Syrian Kurdish fighters, casting more doubt on the feasibility of a cease-fire announced by Vice President Mike Pence and Turkish officials“

Congratulations Donald Trump?

jmayo · 18-10-2019 12:05pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

Pence negotiated a five day ceasefire to allow the Kurds safe passage. The Kurds are now safe.
It's all Trumps fault etc

Blueshoe wrote: »

Blame Turkey.
Do any of you give his administration any kind of credit for negotiating a ceasefire?

Erdogan replied to Trump on twitter. What a world we live in

I notice you didn't reply when I called you out on your bullshyte about US not having to have troops in Middle East due to likes of this.

How you can defend trump and his administration in this sorry episode of US foreign policy and his betrayal of an ally is frankly beyond belief.

I thought only that type of shyte came out of his ardent intellectually limited supporters in backwaters in the US. :rolleyes:

There would be no need for a ceasefire if trump had stood by his allies in the fight with ISIS.

So no I don't give him credit for any ceasefire.

In that old press conference speech given by trump himself he congratulates and acknowledges the sacrifices made by the Kurds and how they were fighting with the US as an ally.

He is a backstabbing bast***.

And just because Erdogan and his forces are the ones doing the killing, doesn't absolve trump from his part in selling out the kurds and basically giving Erodgan the green light to attack them.

trump has done untold damage to the reputation and standing of the US.

Not that he or his myopic supporters seem to care.

mcmoustache · 18-10-2019 12:15pm

What's this ceasefire that everyone's talking about?

The US gave the Turks what they wanted, including removing the potential sanctions in return for a 5-day pause that lasted a few hours.

In saner times, the US wouldn't have cut and run like that and instead would have worked with others in the area to achieve an orderly withdrawal.

Now, some shít-for-brains president unilaterally decides on a disorderly retreat after a phonecall with the guy who wants to annex part of Syria and remove the Kurds from their homeland. No plan, no conditions, just utter capitulation to a relatively poor country. It's bonkers.

Penn · 18-10-2019 12:19pm

Trump has done something unconventional (stupid) that many thought wouldn't work (and hasn't), has separated them like two kids in a playground (with hundreds of deaths and allies being forced to flee their homes) and so it's a great day for civilisation (OH GOD! OH GOD HELP US ALL!)

Blueshoe · 18-10-2019 12:40pm

jmayo wrote: »

I notice you didn't reply when I called you out on your bullshyte about US not having to have troops in Middle East due to likes of this.

How you can defend trump and his administration in this sorry episode of US foreign policy and his betrayal of an ally is frankly beyond belief.

I thought only that type of shyte came out of his ardent intellectually limited supporters in backwaters in the US. :rolleyes:

There would be no need for a ceasefire if trump had stood by his allies in the fight with ISIS.

So no I don't give him credit for any ceasefire.

In that old press conference speech given by trump himself he congratulates and acknowledges the sacrifices made by the Kurds and how they were fighting with the US as an ally.

He is a backstabbing bast***.

And just because Erdogan and his forces are the ones doing the killing, doesn't absolve trump from his part in selling out the kurds and basically giving Erodgan the green light to attack them.

trump has done untold damage to the reputation and standing of the US.

Not that he or his myopic supporters seem to care.

There would be no need for a ceasefire if Turkey hadn't decided that it wanted a buffer zone. Again the Us is under no obligation to permanently deploy troops in Syria. In a warzone.

Didn't people want him to withdraw not too long ago?

Cody montana · 18-10-2019 1:24pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

There would be no need for a ceasefire if Turkey hadn't decided that it wanted a buffer zone. Again the Us is under no obligation to permanently deploy troops in Syria. In a warzone.

Didn't people want him to withdraw not too long ago?

They were under no obligation to send troops to Saudi Arabia, but they did anyway?

James Brown · 18-10-2019 1:56pm

Trump:

"I just want to thank and congratulate President Erdoğan. He’s a friend of mine, and I’m glad we didn’t have a problem because, frankly, he’s a hell of a leader, and he’s a tough man," Trump told reporters while traveling in Texas.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/466334-trump-praises-turkeys-erdogan-after-us-announces-ceasefire-deal

Fighting continues on Syria-Turkey border despite ceasefire
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/18/fighting-continues-on-syria-turkey-border-despite-ceasefire

Another Trump 'victory' like with N. Korea.....

Trump praising another butcher, same ol' same ol'. Putting spin on a turd.

Billy Mays · 18-10-2019 2:50pm

Congratulations President Erdoğan on using chemical weapons on children

Jimmy Garlic · 18-10-2019 3:48pm

Skylinehead wrote: »

Yeah it's great that they have safe passage from their homes.

The Kurds extended themselves way beyond what could be considered their territory. The US Should not have abandoned them the way they did, but they shouldn't be surprised, it wouldn't be the first time. Hopefully there can be dialogue that secures the safety of the Kurds. I'm sure they could gain a good level of autonomy within Syria and Iraq.Russia and Iran could mediate the deal.

riclad · 18-10-2019 4:02pm

The americans used the kurds to defeat isis,
now trump abandon,s them,
the turkish government hates the kurd,s ,
so they see a chance to gain more territory and wipe them out.
This is an awful move by trump, but it send,s the message to other american ally,s ,
america will abandon allies if its convenient .
It sends out a message,
America cannot be trusted to support its ally,s in the long term .
at some point oil will be replaced by solar power ,wind and renewable energy .
In 20 years time america may not need to rely on saudia arabia for oil .
American foreign policy in the middle east is mostly based on securing a supply of
oil from saudia arabia and other countrys .
It also sets the stage for a a comeback by isis and muslim extremist,s .
Even republican supporters of trump are criticising him for
betraying the kurds .
They could have at least arranged a slow withdrawal over a few weeks, giving time for the kurd,s to move away from the border area.
This shows trump has no regard for human rights or the rights of
the kurds to survive a turkish attack .
Of course ,its predictable ,in that america did not intend to have troops there for another 5 year,s .

Gatling · 18-10-2019 5:29pm

They should have set up the Kurdish state and permanently based US forces there ,
The Assad's stole most of the Kurds lands and repopulated them with Arabs to guarantee loyal supporter base ,

Imagine being caught between 3 depots knowing they all want you dead

Blueshoe · 18-10-2019 5:59pm

Cody montana wrote: »

They were under no obligation to send troops to Saudi Arabia, but they did anyway?

Exactly. They chose to send troops there. No obligation.

Gringo180 · 18-10-2019 7:10pm

White Phosporus apparently being used by the Turks on the Kurds.

Jimmy Garlic · 18-10-2019 7:47pm

Gatling wrote: »

They should have set up the Kurdish state and permanently based US forces there ,
The Assad's stole most of the Kurds lands and repopulated them with Arabs to guarantee loyal supporter base ,

Imagine being caught between 3 depots knowing they all want you dead

There is very little territory in Syria that could be considered historically Kurdish, hardly any at all in fact .it's a shame that the US left the Kurds to the Turks, a lesson for all who the US befriends.

riclad · 18-10-2019 8:50pm

Trump is not abama , he is not going to help the kurd,s ,
he wants most american troops to go back to the usa ,
to help his chance,s of election .
He is probably the worst us president since 1950,s ,
he views the kurds, like the american,s viewed the indian natives,
in the 1800,s.
He has more respect for turkey, which is led by another right wing extremist .

youknowitstrue · 18-10-2019 9:29pm

Trump is doing exactly what it said on the tin.
He campaigned for election saying he would bring the troops home, its is what he is doing.
USA has zero reasons/rights to be in Syria, this withdraw is a good thing, let the locals sort out their own problems.
Fact is every where the "evil white man" goes the locals demand that he leaves, now that he has left the locals are demanding that he stays, the "white man" is damned if he do and damned if he don't.
I rather be damned and be safe at home in the USA, than be damned in Syria with the locals trying to kill me.

Gatling · 18-10-2019 9:50pm

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

There is very little territory in Syria that could be considered historically Kurdish,

A fair amount of land that was given to Arabs historically was Kurdish .

Chemical weapons and a foreign military happy to bomb schools and hospitals two depots on one side and an unpredictable despot labelling all Kurds as terrorists happy to use chemical weapons and bomb civilians .

It's like being caught between Hitler and Stalin

Penn · 18-10-2019 10:07pm

youknowitstrue wrote: »

Trump is doing exactly what it said on the tin.
He campaigned for election saying he would bring the troops home, its is what he is doing.
USA has zero reasons/rights to be in Syria, this withdraw is a good thing, let the locals sort out their own problems.
Fact is every where the "evil white man" goes the locals demand that he leaves, now that he has left the locals are demanding that he stays, the "white man" is damned if he do and damned if he don't.
I rather be damned and be safe at home in the USA, than be damned in Syria with the locals trying to kill me.

And yet, Trump is sending troops to Saudi Arabia simply because SA are paying for them.

youknowitstrue · 18-10-2019 10:09pm

Penn wrote: »

And yet, Trump is sending troops to Saudi Arabia simply because SA are paying for them.

How many USA troops have died in Saudi Arabia? zero
Is Saudi Arabia not a official ally of the USA?yes
Have the USA been invited to Saudi Arabia?yes
Where the USA in Syria uninvited? Yes

youknowitstrue · 18-10-2019 10:20pm

Its absolutely astounding that some peoples blind hate for Trump will not allow them to state that Trump pulling the USA out of a war is a good thing.
Only a mad man would wish for war , yet here we have posters wanting Trump to steam on into Syria will the full force of the US military.
Imagine in the near future that a united Ireland is achieved, the USA has sent Troops into Ireland to keep the peace, eventually the Loyalist terrorists go on the war path, The USA says Fxxk it, not worth one US death, you Irish sort it out yourselves, and the US troops go home.
The Irish Army goes to crush the Loyalist forces, well that Turkey now crushing the PKK/Kurds.

K.Flyer · 18-10-2019 11:30pm

Turkey is the aggressor in this Turkey / Kurdish conflict and have been for almost a century.
If you want to use an Irish analogy, it would be more akin to when the British (Turkey) controlled all of Ireland and tried to wipe out Irish (Kurdish) culture, language and religion.
Like the formation of a retaliatory force in Ireland, so did the Kurds rise up against the aggression of the Turks.
There are very similar parallels between the two situations.
More interesting is when over the many years of traveling to Turkey and meeting Kurds and spending evenings chatting with them, how they would relate their situation to what happened in Ireland.
Before people condemn the Kurds / PKK they should look at their history and see how they were massacred by the Turks in the 1920s. They were treated so badly the even Erdogan said it was wrong and tried to apologize for it.
Now they have been fcuked over and left carrying the responsibility of keeping ISIS jihadis prisoners while Turkey tries to blow them into oblivion (again).

Cody montana · 19-10-2019 6:58am

youknowitstrue wrote: »

How many USA troops have died in Saudi Arabia? zero
Is Saudi Arabia not a official ally of the USA?yes
Have the USA been invited to Saudi Arabia?yes
Where the USA in Syria uninvited? Yes

So how is sending troops to Saudi Arabia bring troops home?

Penn · 19-10-2019 1:02pm

youknowitstrue wrote: »

Its absolutely astounding that some peoples blind hate for Trump will not allow them to state that Trump pulling the USA out of a war is a good thing.

There's a right way and a wrong way to do things. Trump decided to pull the US out of Syria without any proper consideration for the Kurds (US allies) and without any consideration of how it might result in the release of ISIS prisoners and therefore a possible ISIS resurgence. Even a majority of House Republicans... hell even Lindsay f*cking Graham, Trump sycophant that he is, says this was a bad decision.

youknowitstrue wrote: »

Only a mad man would wish for war , yet here we have posters wanting Trump to steam on into Syria will the full force of the US military.

Trump's decision not only led to conflict in the reason where there was relative peace and quiet, but Trump is now steaming on into Saudi Arabia with the full force of the US military. You cannot praise Trump for his decision regarding Syria while praising him for his decision regarding Saudi Arabia. They are completely conflicting ideals.

youknowitstrue wrote: »

Imagine in the near future that a united Ireland is achieved, the USA has sent Troops into Ireland to keep the peace, eventually the Loyalist terrorists go on the war path, The USA says Fxxk it, not worth one US death, you Irish sort it out yourselves, and the US troops go home.
The Irish Army goes to crush the Loyalist forces, well that Turkey now crushing the PKK/Kurds.

Again, there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. Trump did this the entirely wrong way and for entirely the wrong reasons.

Turkish forces have started bombing and attacking Kurdish people in Syria

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