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Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

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    #5612
    Snickers Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    reslfj wrote: »
    Of course it was also a trading block with 9 members in 1973.

    But is was very much more than trade already then.

    And trade is very much more now than lower tariffs. It's now much more standards, rules and regulations too. Modern trade simply can't work without.

    PM Ted Heath wrote this in 1972. He had held many speeches and written many more articles long before that saying the same about the EEC.

    Very true. And for further vindication of this point look at the clip of Enoch Powell speaking in this post. Go straight to 2min 10s. He pays tribute to Heath and others for their candour on this point.


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    #5613
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users Posts: 5,803 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    Re cheese, the tariffs on cheddar will pose a considerable challenge, but it seems we now produce significant quantities of mozzarella and Jarlsberg:

    https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/the-big-cheese-how-irish-dairy-is-seeking-to-answer-the-brexit-question/


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    #5614
    McFly85
    Registered Users Posts: 2,982 ✭✭✭McFly85


    The chatter about an ‘Australian type deal’ is the latest in a long line of nonsense designed to placate the brexiter public, make it look like the UK govt are proactively looking at solutions while the EUs typical bureaucracy is what’s holding up a deal. It’s a tired trope at this stage and I’m fairly shocked it still works. This, like all of the other solutions(GATT 24, WTO) takes the sum total of 2 minutes to research before finding that it holds up to no scrutiny at all.

    I think it’s a massive failure of the press-it should be incredibly easy for them to press the PM to go into detail about what he actually means. But they just let him walk into a fridge instead.


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    #5615
    Infini
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    Sterling £0.92 to €1 as of this post, been on a slide last few days and a big enough jump this morning.


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    #5616
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,243 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    volchitsa wrote: »
    The BBC has been disastrous on this all along, they're not going to change now.
    The number of times I've heard Laura Kuenssberg claim that the EU was about to crumble in various ways, or that Varadkar or Coveney were about to be thrown under the bus by the Germans etc etc... The BBC has been taking whatever Downing Street tells them and putting it in the mouths of "sources" as though they had information direct from Brussels.

    I think the BBCs problem is that the sources they had for european affairs are exclusive british, who are naturally frozen out/unaware of the EU arguments


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    #5617
    cml387
    Registered Users Posts: 8,379 ✭✭✭cml387


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    I think the BBCs problem is that the sources they had for european affairs are exclusive british, who are naturally frozen out/unaware of the EU arguments

    Katya Adler has German parents and reported extensively from Europe before the BBC.


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    #5618
    Snickers Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    cml387 wrote: »
    As a son of a self proclaimed potatoe expert :D
    Irish potatoes make better chips than British ones.

    And according to an Italian lady of my acquaintance, resident here, her mother claims that Gnocchi made with Irish Maris Pipers is way superior to the stuff she cooks at home in Italy.

    So there!

    2-0


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    #5619
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    cml387 wrote: »
    I think I read somewhere that the flour used to make your standard white pan loaf comes from the UK.

    Perhaps for the Chorleywood process bread? The most unfortunate addition to the Irish diet, it could be to everyone's benefit if there's less of Chorleywood bread and more proper bread around...


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    #5620
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,577 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    I think we can assume the dinner was a disaster,

    https://twitter.com/antoguerrera/status/1337367302291984386?s=20

    We are now almost coming up 4 years since the UK triggered article 50 and still they have not learned how things work. Johnson trying to sidestep Barnier once again.

    Edit: Post about Brexit talks taking 10 minutes was wrong. It was more like 8.

    https://twitter.com/trouwschmidt/status/1337350755754381313?s=20


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    #5621
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,972 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Enzokk wrote: »
    I think we can assume the dinner was a disaster,

    https://twitter.com/antoguerrera/status/1337367302291984386?s=20

    We are now almost coming up 4 years since the UK triggered article 50 and still they have not learned how things work. Johnson trying to sidestep Barnier once again.
    Is No. 10 in a state of panic?


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    #5622
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,972 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Mod: ok - can we move on from discussing spuds and cheese unless it is distinctly Brexit related?
    One liner post deleted


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    #5623
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,870 ✭✭✭Christy42


    druss wrote: »
    Indeed. A country which had a patriotic call to arms to eat chips at least twice a week for Belgium is much to be admired.

    And if the same freight containners can increase the beer exchange, bring on ever closer Union!

    In fact forget the potatoes. Just bring the beer.

    Seriously though the UK is not a completely unique producer of anything vital. Certain things will go up in price as I am assuming there are reasons we didn't already import from Belgium. We were never getting away with hard brexit without some sort of loss. Nothing that seems like the end of the world for us. Especially with NI following the EU rules. Otherwise we would have never shown up to the negotiations if there was nothing in it for us.


    Also if it is still cheaper we can still just pay the tariffs. Tariffs are not an outright ban. It will likely come down to what is cheaper. I expect the Belgium foreign affairs department has been trying to ensure we can buy their stuff though as it is a nice opportunity for them to expand.


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    #5624
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users Posts: 5,803 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    Coveney will shortly hold a press conference with his German counterpart:

    https://twitter.com/GermanyDiplo/status/1337375508623978498


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    #5625
    CorkRed93
    Registered Users Posts: 3,449 ✭✭✭CorkRed93


    I've been lurking on this thread the past week or so but think it was here I saw a post about tarriffs/charges on various goods that could/would be coming into effect. Mechanical parts+appliances is the one I'm mainly looking out for as my father is a fitter and is worried about cost of parts jumping considerably. If anyone could link me a table or article on these expected charges would appreciate it. Thanks


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    #5626
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    Christy42 wrote: »
    In fact forget the potatoes. Just bring the beer.

    Seriously though the UK is not a completely unique producer of anything vital. Certain things will go up in price as I am assuming there are reasons we didn't already import from Belgium. We were never getting away with hard brexit without some sort of loss. Nothing that seems like the end of the world for us. Especially with NI following the EU rules. Otherwise we would have never shown up to the negotiations if there was nothing in it for us.


    Also if it is still cheaper we can still just pay the tariffs. Tariffs are not an outright ban. It will likely come down to what is cheaper. I expect the Belgium foreign affairs department has been trying to ensure we can buy their stuff though as it is a nice opportunity for them to expand.

    I think what has to be remembered is that any type of Brexit was always going to impose costs on Ireland. It was always just how much.Its for this reason there have been so many threads dissecting brexit

    The thing is Brexiters promised that the UK held all the cards, it would be the easiest trade deal in history, there would be no leaving the Single Market etc. By that measure Brexit has been a failure. So yes Irish supply chains and exports will be impacted however the same goes for the UK. If there is a no deal brexit the UK won't have a trade deal with its largest trade partner. Ireland/EU won't have a trade deal with the UK and that will impose costs would they will comparatively far far less compared to the problems the UK will face.


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    #5627
    Rrrrrr2
    Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Rrrrrr2


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Is No. 10 in a state of panic?

    I would say yes- despite the bluster they are at the "oh ****" moment and need a deal. The EU are far more steadfast- the UK are going to have to do most of the running here if they want one by 31st Dec.


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    #5628
    druss
    Registered Users Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭druss


    Enzokk wrote: »
    I think we can assume the dinner was a disaster,

    https://twitter.com/antoguerrera/status/1337367302291984386?s=20

    We are now almost coming up 4 years since the UK triggered article 50 and still they have not learned how things work. Johnson trying to sidestep Barnier once again.

    Edit: Post about Brexit talks taking 10 minutes was wrong. It was more like 8.

    https://twitter.com/trouwschmidt/status/1337350755754381313?s=20

    People laughed at Trump for needing Merkel to explain to him, repeatedly, that Germany didn't "do" trade deals and that he really needed to talk to the Commission about this stuff.

    The UK knows the score (well, maybe Davis didn't). This is either seeking more "rejection of our sovereignty" optics or desperation. Probably both.


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    #5629
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,266 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    CorkRed93 wrote: »
    I've been lurking on this thread the past week or so but think it was here I saw a post about tarriffs/charges on various goods that could/would be coming into effect. Mechanical parts+appliances is the one I'm mainly looking out for as my father is a fitter and is worried about cost of parts jumping considerably. If anyone could link me a table or article on these expected charges would appreciate it. Thanks
    The tariffs are here; the problem is identifying in which category every single item falls into. Simply scroll down to EU and to the furthest right you have Bound Tariffs as an downloadable excel file with all categories and tariff amounts.


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    #5630
    yagan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭yagan


    CorkRed93 wrote: »
    I've been lurking on this thread the past week or so but think it was here I saw a post about tarriffs/charges on various goods that could/would be coming into effect. Mechanical parts+appliances is the one I'm mainly looking out for as my father is a fitter and is worried about cost of parts jumping considerably. If anyone could link me a table or article on these expected charges would appreciate it. Thanks
    Page 28 has a WTO tariff schedule for imports into Ireland from outside the EU.
    https://www.esri.ie/system/files?file=media/file-uploads/2018-06/BKMNEXT362.pdf


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    #5631
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,330 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Dover experiencing an early preview of what will likely become a permanent feature come Jan 1st.

    AACJP24W2CQGUEPUWIVK.jpg


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    #5632
    J Mysterio
    Registered Users Posts: 11,035 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    Hurrache wrote: »
    The penny dropping all over the place now. It's breathtaking that they're just taking the EU's stance on the single market seriously now.

    https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1337093496407285761?s=19

    Dear lord. No words.


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    #5633
    roosterman71
    Registered Users Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    That article for Dover is a good one. They already have ways of working in place to try keep traffic moving. That is going to come under severe pressure in the coming months. Or not. We say here that lorries will be backed up, etc, etc but all that assumes the same volume of traffic is going to be crossing. Hopefully the Irish trucks will mostly have moved to the ferries and the UK may not be exporting as much either.

    Also, the vaccine delivery is one of the causes? I thought that would be an inbound delivery to the UK or are they exporting one out too? And one truck would carry an awful lot of vaccine. Seems like clutching at straws there to be even mentioning it


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    #5634
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,692 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    CorkRed93 wrote: »
    I've been lurking on this thread the past week or so but think it was here I saw a post about tarriffs/charges on various goods that could/would be coming into effect. Mechanical parts+appliances is the one I'm mainly looking out for as my father is a fitter and is worried about cost of parts jumping considerably. If anyone could link me a table or article on these expected charges would appreciate it. Thanks

    You father is best placed having a wider look around for continental suppliers OR ones within EU trade deal locations.

    Often he may find we were in the past tied to UK distributors who also take a cut. But now the parts can be bought direct from the continental producer rather than a UK distributor. He should put together stock contacts and start looking further afield if needed.


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    #5635
    fly_agaric
    Registered Users Posts: 4,809 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    CorkRed93 wrote: »
    I've been lurking on this thread the past week or so but think it was here I saw a post about tarriffs/charges on various goods that could/would be coming into effect. Mechanical parts+appliances is the one I'm mainly looking out for as my father is a fitter and is worried about cost of parts jumping considerably. If anyone could link me a table or article on these expected charges would appreciate it. Thanks

    Assuming no agreement with UK, think you would need to know what TARIC code the items would come under to find out Customs duty for import to EU from a "3rd country" without some other sort of agreement with the EU. So basically exactly what the things are and what they are for (not a vague "machinery", or "parts" etc you might give in a post to strangers on the internet). It is not straightforward.

    https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/taric_consultation.jsp?Lang=en

    At this stage if no agreement in place, and you (sorry - your father) don't already know the answers to these kinds of Customs questions (given we've known about Brexit for 4 years) maybe try & use another (EU) country.


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    #5636
    120Filmshooter
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭120Filmshooter


    Anyone any idea what happens if you order something in the UK now, paying UK VAT etc but item gets delivered later than year end.

    Is there a facility in place for such incidences or will revenue try and sting people for a second VAT payment.


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    #5637
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,405 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    120Filmshooter wrote: »
    Anyone any idea what happens if you order something in the UK now, paying UK VAT etc but item gets delivered later than year end.

    Is there a facility in place for such incidences or will revenue try and sting people for a second VAT payment.

    Depends on who you are buying from. If you buy from a supplier like Amazon, they will charge you Irish VAT, so should refund it. If the supplier charges UK VAT, they should also refund you as there should be no VAT charged on exports from UK to EU after 1/1/2021.

    Hope hat is right, but check Revenue.ie


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    #5638
    ElJeffe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 725 ✭✭✭ElJeffe


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Is No. 10 in a state of panic?

    Doesn't look like it. I think they always knew this moment would come. It's all eyes on them now to see how they will handle it.


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    #5639
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Hurrache wrote: »
    The penny dropping all over the place now. It's breathtaking that they're just taking the EU's stance on the single market seriously now.

    https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1337093496407285761?s=19
    This is upsettingly stupid from the Brits considering it was Baron Cockfield who wrote the White Paper in the mid-80s outlining the lack of a fundamental single market as the main reason the EEC was failing in its early inception. I'd go so far as to say that the UK were probably the main proponents of a stronger and more unified single market leading to the SEA and eventually the EU itself.


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    #5640
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,972 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Doesn't look like it. I think they always knew this moment would come. It's all eyes on them now to see how they will handle it.
    So why then is he calling the leaders of the larger countries in terms of trade talks as if Merkel and Macron are in charge of the EU negotiations?


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    #5641
    AutoTuning
    Closed Accounts Posts: 423 ✭✭AutoTuning


    The U.K. may have been a big proponent of the single market, but the U.K. isn’t exclusively the current batch of jingoistic Tories and UKIP. The sensible half of the country seems to have been swamped by this and the debates that should have been happening didn’t.

    It’s easy to personify and entire country as “The Brits” but it’s worth remembering for every Widdicombe or Farage there’s a Mowlam or a Major.

    Unfortunately, the Blackadder, Lord Melchett brigade is firmly in charge and seems to be determined to go for the “big push” even if it destroys the country.

    The writers of that show really had the measure of the pompous twits who seem to rise to the top due to connections, accent and class based entitlement rather than on merit.

    I think the fiascos in the US and UK also show the merits of proportional representation democracies. This couldn’t happen in most European counties due to most of us not being fans of placing too much power in one party or one individual’s exclusive control.

    The parliamentary mathematics in Westminster really don’t look likely to deliver anything other than some form of hard Brexit, regardless of what the opinion of the other half of the U.K. might be or the majority of two of the countries they make it up, their fate is sealed by a simple majoritarian system and a technical majority.


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