Beef Data Genomics Programme (2015-2020)

patsy_mccabe · 21-08-2015 9:27am #1

What's the latest on this? I thought they were going to send out the star rating reports for all your cows. I didn't receive anything yet.
I tried to access the data on www.ICBF.com and it says I have to be a member of Herd-Plus.

sako 85 · 21-08-2015 9:34am

I'm the same, have received nothing.

dohc turbo2 · 21-08-2015 6:41pm

About 4 weeks ago icbf on the home page shows a link for ur herds stars

blue5000 · 21-08-2015 7:01pm

dohc turbo2 wrote: »

About 4 weeks ago icbf on the home page shows a link for ur herds stars

That might be only for ppl paid up to herdplus?

tanko · 21-08-2015 7:17pm

blue5000 wrote: »

That might be only for ppl paid up to herdplus?

It is, if you are signed up to herd plus.
I think icbf will send out the eurostars for any farmers cows/heifers if you ring them and ask for them.
They should have been sent out to everyone by now, it's ridiculous how long it's taking them to do this.

dohc turbo2 · 21-08-2015 7:24pm

tanko wrote: »

It is, if you are signed up to herd plus.
I think icbf will send out the eurostars for any farmers cows/heifers if you ring them and ask for them.
They should have been sent out to everyone by now, it's ridiculous how long it's taking them to do this.

Ah right , that's that one so

jimini0 · 25-08-2015 5:54pm

I'm not in the scheme but my uncle is. He has 6 cows but only 4 calved in 2014. So his reference animal number is 3. And his mpa is 2. He is confused to how much he will get paid well I'm confused too. If I was in the scheme I would know more.
So is it 2x €142.50= 285 ????

tanko · 25-08-2015 6:08pm

jimini0 wrote: »

I'm not in the scheme but my uncle is. He has 6 cows but only 4 calved in 2014. So his reference animal number is 3. And his mpa is 2. He is confused to how much he will get paid well I'm confused too. If I was in the scheme I would know more.
So is it 2x €142.50= 285 ????

4 cows divided by 1.5= 2.66 x 142.5 = €380 per year I think.
Is his reference animal no. Not 4?

tanko · 25-08-2015 6:11pm

jimini0 · 25-08-2015 6:44pm

tanko wrote: »

4 cows divided by 1.5= 2.66 x 142.5 = €380 per year I think.
Is his reference animal no. Not 4?

That's where we were confused. He has 4 cows that calved last year. But only 3 on his reference animal number.

tanko · 25-08-2015 6:52pm

jimini0 wrote: »

That's where we were confused. He has 4 cows that calved last year. But only 3 on his reference animal number.

The difference between 4 cows calved in 2014 and 3 cows is going to be €95 per year. Might be worth checking it out with the department.

jimini0 · 25-08-2015 7:03pm

tanko wrote: »

The difference between 4 cows calved in 2014 and 3 cows is going to be €95 per year. Might be worth checking it out with the department.

We did a bit of investigating. One cow that he bought in has the small button tag. It was in another scheme so is not eligible for this one.
So he will just get paid for 3.
Its hardly worth his while when you take the testing fee €30 for each cow out. Plus his time doin paperwork and tagging. I think he is signing over the land to his son soon so I guess it will be his decision then.

50HX · 25-08-2015 7:31pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

What's the latest on this? I thought they were going to send out the star rating reports for all your cows. I didn't receive anything yet.
I tried to access the data on www.ICBF.com and it says I have to be a member of Herd-Plus.

i rang icbf today and was told it will be another 2 weeks before i recieve the eurostar ratings

wiggy123 · 25-08-2015 9:18pm

is it worth it..if only carrying a few cows.. eg! 5 cows in 2014.. so monies gained will be 470ish... minus deductions, its very little money for a lot of hazzle.. what's peoples opinions??

jd06 · 25-08-2015 10:09pm

50HX wrote: »

i rang icbf today and was told it will be another 2 weeks before i recieve the eurostar ratings

I read on de indo today that they are gonna start printing the tags soon
I havnt made up my mind yet
So what will happen if they send out tags
I have signed up, but like everyone else I haven't recieved the stars yet.
Is there a final day that I can opt out before I get tags

angusangus · 25-08-2015 10:52pm

jd06 wrote: »

I read on de indo today that they are gonna start printing the tags soon
I havnt made up my mind yet
So what will happen if they send out tags
I have signed up, but like everyone else I haven't recieved the stars yet.
Is there a final day that I can opt out before I get tags

You can opt out any time before first payment! !!!fact is you can opt out anytime but will to give back any payments recieved

Bleating Lamb · 25-08-2015 10:58pm

jd06 wrote: »

I read on de indo today that they are gonna start printing the tags soon
I havnt made up my mind yet
So what will happen if they send out tags
I have signed up, but like everyone else I haven't recieved the stars yet.
Is there a final day that I can opt out before I get tags

I would very much doubt that their will be any money invested from Govt side on pricy tags till people have had another while to opt out....after seeing Star ratings.

Farrell · 26-08-2015 11:07pm

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

I would very much doubt that their will be any money invested from Govt side on pricy tags till people have had another while to opt out....after seeing Star ratings.

Where do you opt out anyway?

tanko · 31-08-2015 4:27pm

Anyone else get their Euro star report in the post today?

jimini0 · 31-08-2015 4:39pm

tanko wrote: »

Anyone else get their Euro star report in the post today?

My uncle got his today. Strange rating. I don't know alot about his cows but one aax cow that we sold him is only 2 stars. She has had 4 healthy strong calves always plenty of milk easy calved and a great strong frame on her. Then i checked her heifer calf born in April or may she is 4 stars.

50HX · 31-08-2015 4:54pm

tanko wrote: »

Anyone else get their Euro star report in the post today?

just got mine, a lot of strange ratings

have 2 x lmx cows that have a v low calving interval and have had 2 bull calves in the last 2 years that have been weaned @ 8months weighing 375kg without a lick of a nut

the debating will start now:D

Count Mondego · 31-08-2015 7:25pm

jimini0 wrote: »

My uncle got his today. Strange rating. I don't know alot about his cows but one aax cow that we sold him is only 2 stars. She has had 4 healthy strong calves always plenty of milk easy calved and a great strong frame on her. Then i checked her heifer calf born in April or may she is 4 stars.

This whole process will be a cluster f*ck for the next few years until there's enough data in the system to make the rating accurate. As hard as it will be, the best thing would be for everyone to join and bull through it for the few years.

tanko · 31-08-2015 8:09pm

Count Mondego wrote: »

This whole process will be a cluster f*ck for the next few years until there's enough data in the system to make the rating accurate. As hard as it will be, the best thing would be for everyone to join and bull through it for the few years.

True, apparently 120% of the reference number of females here are 4/5 star. I wouldn't be happy with a lot of them, it'll be interesting to see if they stay that way when the genotyping results come back.

High bike · 31-08-2015 8:16pm

Count Mondego wrote: »

This whole process will be a cluster f*ck for the next few years until there's enough data in the system to make the rating accurate. As hard as it will be, the best thing would be for everyone to join and bull through it for the few years.

id be inclined to agree with u there about the cluster fcuk ,haven't got mine yet but from looking them up on line they'r all over the place

patsy_mccabe · 03-09-2015 6:10pm

The BDGP Herd reports are now available on www.icbf.com.
Log on and then go to REPORTS and then EUROSTAR and then BDGP-EUROSTAR REPORT

Limestone Cowboy · 03-09-2015 6:25pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

The BDGP Herd reports are now available on www.icbf.com.
Log on and then go to REPORTS and then EUROSTAR and then BDGP-EUROSTAR REPORT

Feck that report, after spending ten minutes looking for a heifer on it and wondering how she wasn't showing up only to realise she was registered as a bull

On the plus side 130% of the reference number are eligible.

patsy_mccabe · 03-09-2015 6:55pm

I'm at 200% already but I'm getting killed on the heifers which are all by ADX and APZ. Madness when you think about it. I notice no reliability % shown either.

jimini0 · 16-09-2015 5:35pm

Does anyone know how does a man go about exiting this scheme????
My uncle was talkin to a man at mass last night about it and they came up with the best way. "Just don't send back the tags".
He is a stubborn man I told him to ring the dept but no. His friend told him

50HX · 16-09-2015 5:51pm

if you were to buy in heifers how can you find out beforehand what rating they are?

tanko · 16-09-2015 6:33pm

50HX wrote: »

if you were to buy in heifers how can you find out beforehand what rating they are?

Good question, I think the boards in marts are going to show star ratings for heifers, I don't know if they've started doing this yet. A buyer would be finding out at the last minute tho.
If buying off farm the seller should have them.
I think a heifer has to be genotyped as a 4/5 star heifer to qualify for the scheme. Who knows how genotyping will affect star ratings. If 4/5 star heifers start going down to 2/3 stars there'll be fun then.

Bellview · 16-09-2015 6:53pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I'm at 200% already but I'm getting killed on the heifers which are all by ADX and APZ. Madness when you think about it. I notice no reliability % shown either.

that report is misleading.. I only looked at the calves and the heifers rating to check against scheme as I'm making the assumption that a good chunk of the cows will be long gone by 2020... I have seen reports from boys who hit the metrics easily now but they have a large chunk of calves that are in 1 & 2 star & are in reality borderline... that is before ICBF decide on changing the weightings again..

Bullocks · 16-09-2015 7:02pm

I was 100% not going ahead with the scheme until a lad last week i was talking to said he was going to go in , put all the payment into the credit union for the duration of the scheme and wing it in the hope that they wouldn't look for the money back if he didn't quite hit the criteria by the end , and if they did he could hand back the money otherwise it would go into kids college fund .
Im half thinking now i should chance a half assed attempt like that aswell but I don't know

Bellview · 16-09-2015 8:12pm

Bullocks wrote: »

I was 100% not going ahead with the scheme until a lad last week i was talking to said he was going to go in , put all the payment into the credit union for the duration of the scheme and wing it in the hope that they wouldn't look for the money back if he didn't quite hit the criteria by the end , and if they did he could hand back the money otherwise it would go into kids college fund .
Im half thinking now i should chance a half assed attempt like that aswell but I don't know

since commitment given that they will not take penalties from other payments... does that mean that they may be unable to recover monies if we breach the rules?

Bullocks · 16-09-2015 8:34pm

Bellview wrote: »

since commitment given that they will not take penalties from other payments... does that mean that they may be unable to recover monies if we breach the rules?

I didn't know that but as yer man said "its hard to take feathers from a frogs hole !"

Farrell · 16-09-2015 11:21pm

tanko wrote: »

Good question, I think the boards in marts are going to show star ratings for heifers, I don't know if they've started doing this yet. A buyer would be finding out at the last minute tho.
If buying off farm the seller should have them.
I think a heifer has to be genotyped as a 4/5 star heifer to qualify for the scheme. Who knows how genotyping will affect star ratings. If 4/5 star heifers start going down to 2/3 stars there'll be fun then.

Think the proposed mart boards will only show for icbf members only.
Probably an incentive to get all farmers signed up

High bike · 17-09-2015 6:34pm

Got my list to be genotype do today,cover letter says if I consider any of the cows to be too dangerous to tag I should contact icbf about getting a replacement for her.As it happens one of the chosen cows is a nightmare to handle but I'm wondering if I report this to them will it affect her star rating?

Bullocks · 17-09-2015 6:52pm

High bike wrote: »

Got my list to be genotype do today,cover letter says if I consider any of the cows to be too dangerous to tag I should contact icbf about getting a replacement for her.As it happens one of the chosen cows is a nightmare to handle but I'm wondering if I report this to them will it affect her star rating?

Tell the truth High bike and dont be withholding information!

blue5000 · 17-09-2015 8:04pm

Got my list today as well. I might leave it till the next TB test though.

Bellview · 17-09-2015 9:02pm

Bullocks wrote: »

Tell the truth High bike and dont be withholding information!

that icbf docile metric drives me mad

, I slaughtered a cow this year for that exact reason, and she was a nut job and she was rated quite while I have ones that you could sit on their backs and they are rated nutters... if you keep any daughters they will be impacted more that the cow herself, if she is not incalf slaughter her and say nothing:D..

Bullocks · 17-09-2015 9:16pm

Bellview wrote: »

that icbf docile metric drives me mad , I slaughtered a cow this year for that exact reason, and she was a nut job and she was rated quite while I have ones that you could sit on their backs and they are rated nutters... if you keep any daughters they will be impacted more that the cow herself, if she is not incalf slaughter her and say nothing:D..

No ICBF wouldn't be wrong , maybe you just didn't know how to handle her !

Limestone Cowboy · 17-09-2015 9:21pm

Bellview wrote: »

that icbf docile metric drives me mad , I slaughtered a cow this year for that exact reason, and she was a nut job and she was rated quite while I have ones that you could sit on their backs and they are rated nutters... if you keep any daughters they will be impacted more that the cow herself, if she is not incalf slaughter her and say nothing:D..

I always thought it was one of the more accurate parts of it to be honest. My current bill is 5* docility and the previous one was only 1* and there is a massive difference in the calves out of them. No more nut jobs.

High bike · 17-09-2015 11:03pm

Bullocks wrote: »

Tell the truth High bike and dont be withholding information!

Like everyone else is it bullocks????

Bullocks · 17-09-2015 11:44pm

High bike wrote: »

Like everyone else is it bullocks????

Haha , exactly !

Bellview · 18-09-2015 9:49am

Bullocks wrote: »

No ICBF wouldn't be wrong , maybe you just didn't know how to handle her !

I let that to the vet... When it came to scanning we just passed her by as a nut job you were guaranteed she would be in calf every year... I have her last daughter for sale now 5 stars and rated docile.......first to see will buy

kollegeknight · 18-09-2015 3:13pm

It is very objective alright,

I rated the bull as 3/5 one year for docility because I couldn't jump on his back as another poster said but the vet said he is as quiet a bull as he met. He is grand like but I wouldn't trust any bull.

When I see some neighbours Bulls, mine is like a kitten.

Cows are grand and quiet here so I rated them 5/5 but they can have their days like all of us.

Bellview · 18-09-2015 3:44pm

kollegeknight wrote: »

It is very objective alright,

I rated the bull as 3/5 one year for docility because I couldn't jump on his back as another poster said but the vet said he is as quiet a bull as he met. He is grand like but I wouldn't trust any bull.

When I see some neighbours Bulls, mine is like a kitten.

Cows are grand and quiet here so I rated them 5/5 but they can have their days like all of us.

I missed that self certification note in the post... since docility is in the star weightings it would definitely help if we could rate them all 5's to help the grant

The man in red and black · 22-09-2015 2:46am

Could anyone tell me where can you find the actual reports on the genotyping results? Or is that where they came up with the Euro-stars report they now have? The father is not in herdplus unfortunately and there's no point joining it till one of us is there more to actually use the info. We obviously therefore never had stars on the cows up to now, just wondering are they based on the genotyping or just the data accumulated over the years, breeding etc?

I've realised it's going to be tricky to get the cows up to the 4-5 stars. I thought we were flying having a bull rated 5 stars for Replacement and Terminal for the last 3 years...sure enough when they re-did the weighting this Spring he dropped to 3 stars for replacement so anything sired by him is scoring poorly but all the old 6-10 year old cows are coming in as 4-5 stars. That said alot of them would be 10-30% Holstein from our years transitioning from dairy to sucklers but annoying that all the young stock are scoring 1-2 stars. Hopefully as they have more calves over the next couple of years and have more data they will pick up a few stars.

New bull is a gamble, 5 stars for replacement but only 21% reliability! It's worse than roulette! My father did better when he just picked out the bulls by eyeballing them! I hope this lad holds his stars or it'll start to get tight coming up to 2020! Fingers crossed he breeds some great 4-5 star heifers off of the old lady's. One girl still knocking around on her 15th calf! She owes us nothing.

MollyRo · 22-09-2015 3:24pm

The man in red and black wrote: »

Could anyone tell me where can you find the actual reports on the genotyping results? Or is that where they came up with the Euro-stars report they now have? The father is not in herdplus unfortunately and there's no point joining it till one of us is there more to actually use the info. We obviously therefore never had stars on the cows up to now, just wondering are they based on the genotyping or just the data accumulated over the years, breeding etc?

I've realised it's going to be tricky to get the cows up to the 4-5 stars. I thought we were flying having a bull rated 5 stars for Replacement and Terminal for the last 3 years...sure enough when they re-did the weighting this Spring he dropped to 3 stars for replacement so anything sired by him is scoring poorly but all the old 6-10 year old cows are coming in as 4-5 stars. That said alot of them would be 10-30% Holstein from our years transitioning from dairy to sucklers but annoying that all the young stock are scoring 1-2 stars. Hopefully as they have more calves over the next couple of years and have more data they will pick up a few stars.

New bull is a gamble, 5 stars for replacement but only 21% reliability! It's worse than roulette! My father did better when he just picked out the bulls by eyeballing them! I hope this lad holds his stars or it'll start to get tight coming up to 2020! Fingers crossed he breeds some great 4-5 star heifers off of the old lady's. One girl still knocking around on her 15th calf! She owes us nothing.

I'm not fully sure how it all works with regard to the bulls but from what I can see with the genotyping/ star ratings the mother carries alot of the weight with replacement heifers. If they are a high rating 5 star cow they will likely have a 4/5 star daughter. we had a low rated replacement bull but 5 star terminal, their daughters have rated very well. Its early days in terms of buying a bull I feel, I am actually beginning to think that there will be a big push towards AI with sucklers, particularly since there is a section on the system that will conveniently point you in the right direction of an AI bull. In an ideal world thats fine but its too hard to manage when we all work full time as well.

Another question I have is will the heifers ratings drop along with the bulls ratings when they drop??

MollyRo · 22-09-2015 3:26pm

The man in red and black wrote: »

Could anyone tell me where can you find the actual reports on the genotyping results? Or is that where they came up with the Euro-stars report they now have? The father is not in herdplus unfortunately and there's no point joining it till one of us is there more to actually use the info. We obviously therefore never had stars on the cows up to now, just wondering are they based on the genotyping or just the data accumulated over the years, breeding etc?

I've realised it's going to be tricky to get the cows up to the 4-5 stars. I thought we were flying having a bull rated 5 stars for Replacement and Terminal for the last 3 years...sure enough when they re-did the weighting this Spring he dropped to 3 stars for replacement so anything sired by him is scoring poorly but all the old 6-10 year old cows are coming in as 4-5 stars. That said alot of them would be 10-30% Holstein from our years transitioning from dairy to sucklers but annoying that all the young stock are scoring 1-2 stars. Hopefully as they have more calves over the next couple of years and have more data they will pick up a few stars.

New bull is a gamble, 5 stars for replacement but only 21% reliability! It's worse than roulette! My father did better when he just picked out the bulls by eyeballing them! I hope this lad holds his stars or it'll start to get tight coming up to 2020! Fingers crossed he breeds some great 4-5 star heifers off of the old lady's. One girl still knocking around on her 15th calf! She owes us nothing.

I'm not fully sure how it all works with regard to the bulls but from what I can see with the genotyping/ star ratings the mother carries alot of the weight with replacement heifers. If they are a high rating 5 star cow they will likely have a 4/5 star daughter. we had 3 star rated replacement bull and 3 star terminal, their daughters have rated very well. Its early days in terms of buying a bull I feel, I am actually beginning to think that there will be a big push towards AI with sucklers, particularly since there is a section on the system that will conveniently point you in the right direction of an AI bull. In an ideal world thats fine but its too hard to manage when we all work full time as well.

Another question I have is will the heifers ratings drop along with the bulls ratings when they drop??

Milked out · 22-09-2015 3:37pm

MollyRo wrote: »

I'm not fully sure how it all works with regard to the bulls but from what I can see with the genotyping/ star ratings the mother carries alot of the weight with replacement heifers. If they are a high rating 5 star cow they will likely have a 4/5 star daughter. we had 3 star rated replacement bull and 3 star terminal, their daughters have rated very well. Its early days in terms of buying a bull I feel, I am actually beginning to think that there will be a big push towards AI with sucklers, particularly since there is a section on the system that will conveniently point you in the right direction of an AI bull. In an ideal world thats fine but its too hard to manage when we all work full time as well.

Another question I have is will the heifers ratings drop along with the bulls ratings when they drop??

A bulls rating will go up and down as more info comes in from its relatives and progeny so it's daughters and sons may go up or down as well. If u are on herd plus and you get an animal genotyped it will appear as a report in the site. There is a genomic section there, that's how it worked for dairy anyway.

MollyRo · 22-09-2015 3:41pm

Milked out wrote: »

A bulls rating will go up and down as more info comes in from its relatives and progeny so it's daughters and sons may go up or down as well. If u are on herd plus and you get an animal genotyped it will appear as a report in the site. There is a genomic section there, that's how it worked for dairy anyway.

Yeah I get that alright, I guess its early days for the scheme, I think AI may be what we need to look at when it comes to breeding replacements... I really don't want the hassle of it, for now I'll just hope that the bulls ratings remain the same or increase, his calves are pretty impressive and are thriving though...

Beef Data Genomics Programme (2015-2020)

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