Beef Data Genomics Programme (2015-2020)

croot

The man in red and black wrote: »

Surely the 650kg at 12 months is a typo is it? I didn't think that would be possible but if it was then that is outrageous pumping up! :eek:

I'm nearly sure that's what he told me and my reaction was the same. I had just been telling him how happy I was with my weanling weights when he told me. Remember thinking how the hell could you push them to that weight.

Bellview

croot wrote: »

I'm nearly sure that's what he told me and my reaction was the same. I had just been telling him how happy I was with my weanling weights when he told me. Remember thinking how the hell could you push them to that weight.

I wouldn't consider 650 for a char at 12 months a tough weight to get to.. I have an angus bull this year at 420kgs at 9 months without pushing him.. if he keeps same daily weight gain he would be pushing 600kgs at 12 months, so if a small AA can do it a Char should easily achieve that...

if we allow 60 kgs as a birth weight for the calf the average daily gain is 1.6kg to get to 650kgs at 12 months

bogman_bass

ruben37 wrote: »

. If your correct, you might explain why there are 10 a day dropping out of the Beef Data and Genomics Program?

Where did that figure come from?

Anyways 10 a day considering the numbers involved is tiny. That's like 1% a month and anybody that's going to drop out will do so in the next month or 2 so I doubt anybody is panicking.

Sounds like you more worried about your breed getting called out for their poor maternal qualities. Don't worry about it there is still a market for good terminal sires

Bellview

bogman_bass wrote: »

Where did that figure come from?

Anyways 10 a day considering the numbers involved is tiny. That's like 1% a month and anybody that's going to drop out will do so in the next month or 2 so I doubt anybody is panicking.

Sounds like you more worried about your breed getting called out for their poor maternal qualities. Don't worry about it there is still a market for good terminal sires

will be interesting how many will pull out over the next 6 months especially after the discussion meetings. I will definitely take the cash this year, bank it but will make a decision next year, then pay it back if I pull out. While the stars are as wrong a F%ck across the herd, the herd profile hits the metrics, so I will draw the cash from the minister... My view is ICBF & Teagasc are the only guaranteed winners from the scheme as there are so many stupid complex rules inserted that won't make a blind bit of difference to beef herd

dohc turbo2

Dep figures say 5% of the 30,000 have only pulled out . If u can believe that

Bullocks

dohc turbo2 wrote: »

Dep figures say 5% of the 30,000 have only pulled out . If u can believe that

How did they pull out ? Can you notify them ? Our advisor said just don't comply with the tagging or form filling and that will be good enough but I'd reckon there must be a proper opt out method

patrickn

Bullocks wrote: »

How did they pull out ? Can you notify them ? Our advisor said just don't comply with the tagging or form filling and that will be good enough but I'd reckon there must be a proper opt out method

You just send a note with your name, address and Herdnumber to say you wish to withdraw from the scheme to Beef Schemes Section, Dept. of Agriculture and Food , Portlaoise.

Canaryblue

Farrell wrote: »

What's the Goldbar calves like, he's being pushed big time, as NCBC & Eurogene have him.
Think we commercial suckler farmers will soon have to do more homework on the Bulls we use, especially if keeping the off-spring

Good quality animals, long and well fleshed with good growth rates. We'll have our first heifer by him calving next summer so that'll be interesting.

slippy wicket

patrickn wrote: »

You just send a note with your name, address and Herdnumber to say you wish to withdraw from the scheme to Beef Schemes Section, Dept. of Agriculture and Food , Portlaoise.

I emailed the beef schemes section on Monday evening asking this very question, still have not got any response.
Very poor form, like this nonsense scheme.

Bleating Lamb

slippy wicket wrote: »

I emailed the beef schemes section on Monday evening asking this very question, still have not got any response.
Very poor form, like this nonsense scheme.

Ah now....emails take 7-9 working days to reach the Dept.

tanko

Did anyone go to any of the suckler demonstration evenings in Drumshambo or Mohill last week. Meant to get to the one in Mohill but it didn't work out.
Anything new at them?

bogman_bass

Started tagging today one of the tags broke when the tramp whipped her head around breaking the spike before it went through >:(

Grueller

bogman_bass wrote: »

Started tagging today one of the tags broke when the tramp whipped her head around breaking the spike before it went through >:(

Tell the truth about those docility figures now!!!!! They are unreal flimsy alright. Far worse than the bvd tags.

Miname

Grueller wrote: »

Tell the truth about those docility figures now!!!!! They are unreal flimsy alright. Far worse than the bvd tags.

I tagged one straight through a jumbo tag. My cows ears are too small for all the decorations. Why do they need samples from the cows that were done last year anyways?

kelslat

Chaos here at the tagging, got a couple of tags mixed up. I rang icbf and I just said to put a note in with the tags. They sent an email to the DNA lab also.

blue5000

bogman_bass wrote: »

Started tagging today one of the tags broke when the tramp whipped her head around breaking the spike before it went through >:(

Chance sending it off, if the tip scraped her ear there is probably enough in it for the sample, had one last yr and it worked ok.

bogman_bass

blue5000 wrote: »

Chance sending it off, if the tip scraped her ear there is probably enough in it for the sample, had one last yr and it worked ok.

Not even close

TITANIUM.

bogman_bass wrote: »

Started tagging today one of the tags broke when the tramp whipped her head around breaking the spike before it went through >:(

Had exactly the same here. I painstakingly got the tag kind of back together while on the tagger held her real tight and tagged her. To my amazement the tag stayed on her. Sent it off anyway. They recommend sending what you have anyway even if the tag breaks. It doesn't even have to be sent in the fluid tube if you've broken that.

Count Mondego

I bought a few weanlings off a lad who was farming in his 90s, some legend of a man. His son was telling me afterwards that the ould lad was putting some of the genomic tags on a few of them, and firing the samples out over the wall of the crush. He thought they were just for piercing the ear! :-)

Fantastic character.

Base price

Canaryblue wrote: »

See the thing is yes the charolais breed is a terminal breed but that doesn't mean there isn't plenty of suckler cows up and down the country bred ofF charolais bulls. So if the pedigree charolais breeders (I myself am one) can improve the maternal traits of their herd then it will have a knock on effect to improving the suckler herd.

Of the 17 bull calves we've had born in 2015, 16 of them qualify for the BDGP scheme. With some of them being 4 and 5 stars for replacement ACROSS THE BREEDS!

Canaryblue can you please reference your information excluding any personal details of course.
I was on the Pedigree Breeders Council with other interested parties (Dept, AI stations, ICSA, IFA etc) when the idea/format of ICBF was first instigated.
In fact the discussions, agreement and backing of each individual breed society through their councils was paramount to ICBF's existence.
At no point was it agreed that data would be compared across breeds - data would only be compared within a specific breed.
If that situation has changed then I would be obliged if you could reference same.

Dozer1

Some balls having to do all the tagging before housing time.
All the cattle were in last week for scanning as couldn't delay it any more waiting for the tags, then they arrived Friday so gave most of Saturday rounding them up again.

A few hairy moments but all done now, trying to get cows due to calve soon through the crush was not good.

Canaryblue

Base price wrote: »

Canaryblue can you please reference your information excluding any personal details of course.
I was on the Pedigree Breeders Council with other interested parties (Dept, AI stations, ICSA, IFA etc) when the idea/format of ICBF was first instigated.
In fact the discussions, agreement and backing of each individual breed society through their councils was paramount to ICBF's existence.
At no point was it agreed that data would be compared across breeds - data would only be compared within a specific breed.
If that situation has changed then I would be obliged if you could reference same.

Forgive me if I'm reading this wrong but are you saying you don't know how ICBF data for pedigree animals is presented?

Base price

Canaryblue wrote: »

Forgive me if I'm reading this wrong but are you saying you don't know how ICBF data for pedigree animals is presented?

Your forgiven
"Of the 17 bull calves we've had born in 2015, 16 of them qualify for the BDGP scheme. With some of them being 4 and 5 stars for replacement ACROSS THE BREEDS!"
Across the breeds is the part that I wondering about. Where did you find that information.

Canaryblue

Base price wrote: »

Your forgiven
"Of the 17 bull calves we've had born in 2015, 16 of them qualify for the BDGP scheme. With some of them being 4 and 5 stars for replacement ACROSS THE BREEDS!"
Across the breeds is the part that I wondering about. Where did you find that information.

Look up any bull on icbf, on the left it will show the stars within the breed and on the right it will show the stars across all beef breeds.

If you take CQA for example, he's 3 stars for replacement within the Simmental breed and 5 stars for replacement across all beef breeds.

Also there was no need to forgive me, I was right

Base price

Canaryblue wrote: »

Look up any bull on icbf, on the left it will show the stars within the breed and on the right it will show the stars across all beef breeds.

If you take CQA for example, he's 3 stars for replacement within the Simmental breed and 5 stars for replacement across all beef breeds.

Also there was no need to forgive me, I was right

Thanks for the info

dohc turbo2

I was at the scheme meeting last night , majority was fairly positive there it seemed , once lads got there questions answered they seemed pretty happy with it , few extra bob anyway

ruben37

bogman_bass wrote: »

Where did that figure come from?

Anyways 10 a day considering the numbers involved is tiny. That's like 1% a month and anybody that's going to drop out will do so in the next month or 2 so I doubt anybody is panicking.

Sounds like you more worried about your breed getting called out for their poor maternal qualities. Don't worry about it there is still a market for good terminal sires

Farming independent I cant post links yet but it's still one of the most read articles on the site. I am sure it wont be to hard to find! As for your other comments I feel your aggrieved at not being able to produce the same quality of animal with out a dirty big dairy cow or the likes in your yard and hungry for pitiful mugs money that the vast majority will pay back, it is clearly a farce of a scheme for many quality breeders.

Limestone Cowboy

Count Mondego wrote: »

I bought a few weanlings off a lad who was farming in his 90s, some legend of a man. His son was telling me afterwards that the ould lad was putting some of the genomic tags on a few of them, and firing the samples out over the wall of the crush. He thought they were just for piercing the ear! :-)

Fantastic character.

Girlfriend is working wit a farm planner and an auld fella landed into the office a few weeks back looking to get samples done, fine says she where do you want them done? The ones in the cows ears says your man not having a clue what any of it was about and he had never applied for the scheme. Probably for the best!

Bellview

ruben37 wrote: »

Farming independent I cant post links yet but it's still one of the most read articles on the site. I am sure it wont be to hard to find! As for your other comments I feel your aggrieved at not being able to produce the same quality of animal with out a dirty big dairy cow or the likes in your yard and hungry for pitiful mugs money that the vast majority will pay back, it is clearly a farce of a scheme for many quality breeders.

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/is-it-worth-breeding-your-own-replacements-if-youve-less-than-20-cows/

the Teagasc boy has answered an interesting question. His view is if a man has fewer than 20 cows then he should buy in replacements ... the most probable source of these heifers are from the dairy herd (as the larger beef guys will need to keep the 4 & 5 stars). There are 55,000 beef farmers out of 73,000 in this category. If the answer is we need to buy heifers from Dairy why bother with an improvement scheme... even Teagasc are calling the scheme a joke without realising it

the more interesting number of guys not taking part will be next spring as a number of advisors are stating if you don't send back the tags you will get excluded from scheme and this is the path that a number of folks are taking

dohc turbo2

The bit I find bad about it , the scheme is to try and improve the suckler herd in Ireland yet if u have a non pedigree bull in ur herd as long as he is a 4-5 star in 2018 he is good enough for the scheme