Beef Data Genomics Programme (2015-2020)

The man in red and black

At home they broke two of the tissue tags when sampling, reported this to get new tags and had to take hair samples from the tail instead. I thought a new tag would have been alot easier. Anyone else have this?

Edit: Never mind, readying the ICBF BDGP flyers and all answered! Still think a tag would have been handier than the brother going at a cows tail with a vice grips trying to pull out hairs!

tomieen jones

The man in red and black wrote: »

At home they broke two of the tissue tags when sampling, reported this to get new tags and had to take hair samples from the tail instead. I thought a new tag would have been alot easier. Anyone else have this?

Edit: Never mind, readying the ICBF BDGP flyers and all answered! Still think a tag would have been handier than the brother going at a cows tail with a vice grips trying to pull out hairs!

Hair samples would be easier in my opinion and cheaper too id imagine ! Dunno why they went the tag route. !easier get at a mad cows tail in the crush than her ear !also less the price of the tag

Dozer1

for anyone who isn't on ICBF and records there animal event stuff on the Dept agfood site I rang the dept yesterday and they said they hope to have the surveys for the genomics scheme up at the end of October.

Some joke it wasn't ready to go much quicker, its pretty much a copy of what they had for the last few schemes

Charliebull

The man in red and black wrote: »

At home they broke two of the tissue tags when sampling, reported this to get new tags and had to take hair samples from the tail instead. I thought a new tag would have been alot easier. Anyone else have this?

Edit: Never mind, readying the ICBF BDGP flyers and all answered! Still think a tag would have been handier than the brother going at a cows tail with a vice grips trying to pull out hairs!

WTF are ya using a vice grips for, its a hair sample not the whole tail;)

i did mine last year that way in the field, bull included, up behind them grab the end of the tail and get a few hairs, far less hassle on man and beast

ellewood

Charliebull wrote: »

WTF are ya using a vice grips for, its a hair sample not the whole tail;)

i did mine last year that way in the field, bull included, up behind them grab the end of the tail and get a few hairs, far less hassle on man and beast

Ahh you would be used to going up behind and grabbing tho....:D

Charliebull

ellewood wrote: »

Ahh you would be used to going up behind and grabbing tho....:D

aah but i never had to lift the tail, they usually did that themselves

how all in KK, ye won that funny game with the sticks again i see

MollyRo

Weaning calves at the moment. Where do I record the weaning weights on icbf?

MollyRo

Also I can't find where to record the docility on the site. Does it have to be by paperwork?

Bellview

tomieen jones wrote: »

Hair samples would be easier in my opinion and cheaper too id imagine ! Dunno why they went the tag route. !easier get at a mad cows tail in the crush than her ear !also less the price of the tag

+1 on hairs... hairs have been used on the ped bulls for the past few years and seem to work ok... avoids annoying the animals with more tags

ellewood

Bellview wrote: »

+1 on hairs... hairs have been used on the ped bulls for the past few years and seem to work ok... avoids annoying the animals with more tags

True, hairs easier and work just as well, But the cynic in me would say that with hairs tho that the tag company dosen't get a twist of our E90.00/head

tomieen jones

ellewood wrote: »

True, hairs easier and work just as well, But the cynic in me would say that with hairs tho that the tag company dosen't get a twist of our E90.00/head

they announced information meetings locally next month to answer questions
this will be one I'll be asking

Farrell

ellewood wrote: »

True, hairs easier and work just as well, But the cynic in me would say that with hairs tho that the tag company dosen't get a twist of our E90.00/head

We all tag, a sample is sent away for (BVD) testing, why can't agencies share data & work together to mean less work & expense for us poor farming folk

skoger

MollyRo wrote: »

Weaning calves at the moment. Where do I record the weaning weights on icbf?

Record Events menu -> Live weight

MollyRo wrote: »

Also I can't find where to record the docility on the site. Does it have to be by paperwork?

Services Menu -> Beef Data & Genomics Programme -> under calf Information on left hand side

Bellview

Farrell wrote: »

We all tag, a sample is sent away for (BVD) testing, why can't agencies share data & work together to mean less work & expense for us poor farming folk

that would involve common sense...does not happen a lot in semi states/ gov agencies

The man in red and black

Charliebull wrote: »

WTF are ya using a vice grips for, its a hair sample not the whole tail;)

i did mine last year that way in the field, bull included, up behind them grab the end of the tail and get a few hairs, far less hassle on man and beast

I don't know the brother said he couldn't get the roots out without the vicegrips. Even the ICBF BDGP fliers suggest using a pliers. I was surprised, I reckon I could pull out a few hairs especially in crush but apparently this one wasn't giving them up easily

Does anyone know if they actually gave farmers information on the cows they genotyped on last years Beef Genomics Scheme or will it not be made available?

Bullocks

The man in red and black wrote: »

I don't know the brother said he couldn't get the roots out without the vicegrips. Even the ICBF BDGP fliers suggest using a pliers. I was surprised, I reckon I could pull out a few hairs especially in crush but apparently this one wasn't giving them up easily

Does anyone know if they actually gave farmers information on the cows they genotyped on last years Beef Genomics Scheme or will it not be made available?

We definitely got no information back from it last year and they came out and weighed calves after we tagged and she said we would have all the info from the weighing and genomic testing posted out within a few weeks . Never got anything back until a few weeks ago got another letter saying they wanted to weigh a few more calves . I rang them up and cancelled it , I have enough for doing without taking time out to herd a few calves up the crush for no thanks .

jd06

I was tagging this evening made a bo bo
I put the wrong tag in a cow
Eg.It was tag 55 and u put it in cow155
What should I do?

tanko

jd06 wrote: »

I was tagging this evening made a bo bo
I put the wrong tag in a cow
Eg.It was tag 55 and u put it in cow155
What should I do?

I think if you let them know what happened they just put the sample down to the cow you tagged and you don't have to tag the other one this year.

ruben37

With ten a day doping out of this farce of a scheme, are ye guys mad or just hungry for money! Being honest if they had asked me to participate on what I would call a pilot scheme for lets say five years to assess data on improving the gene pool in Ireland. I would have said yes no problem as a pedigree breeder I already submit majority of information required. But no they want to add service fees, penalties and publish a totally flawed, what I would call a score board, that has caused havoc for many breeders/suckler farmers all over Ireland.

blue5000

ruben37 wrote: »

With ten a day doping out of this farce of a scheme, are ye guys mad or just hungry for money! Being honest if they had asked me to participate on what I would call a pilot scheme for lets say five years to assess data on improving the gene pool in Ireland. I would have said yes no problem as a pedigree breeder I already submit majority of information required. But no they want to add service fees, penalties and publish a totally flawed, what I would call a score board, that has caused havoc for many breeders/suckler farmers all over Ireland.

It's a bit like the sticker 'you don't have to be mad to work here, but if you are it would be a big help'

The 5 star cows are producing calves that are more profitable than 1 star cows, so ya we are hungry for money I suppose.

ruben37

blue5000 wrote: »

It's a bit like the sticker 'you don't have to be mad to work here, but if you are it would be a big help'

The 5 star cows are producing calves that are more profitable than 1 star cows, so ya we are hungry for money I suppose.

Please produce the stats to back up your claim above? Id like to see them if you have them!!!

This out fit, IE the ICBF are claiming our best producing pedigree cows are 2,3 stars and the worst of them is 4 star. Now I am very pissed off, I have taken hits of a monkey in monetary terms for cows in calf of late due the the stats provided by the ICBF.

Now the average calving interval for all cows in the herd, in lay man terms is a calf every year bar one of the so called 4 star cows she it a dude and for the factory. I have to prid her this year and last!. The 2 and 3 star cows a produce good calves every year and all well over the average wean weights, but yet them lot tell me we breed to terminal and have no milk a ******* joke.

In all honesty they are talking bull Dung and they wish to do dam all about it, it is flawed bigtime. I have all wean weights going back 15 years but yet weeks later, I am still awaiting an answer if I can correct the misinformation that they have published.

mattP

Will this genotyping actually do any good/change anything?
I have a great charolais bull, great quality calves, none needed assistance so far (this is his second season) and like the father very docile! No need to use a stick with him, put out your hands in front of him and he'll walk in the opposite direction Hes down as a one star animal, his sire isnt marked which doesn't help either, I suppose
On the other hand I have a runtish poly bull calf, just got him to throw under a cow that had too much milk. "Five stars". I'll be damned before he sires anything! He'll be castrated before he knows it :P

blue5000

Ruben have a look here

http://www.icbf.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Tully-Slides-Euro-Stars.pdf

Page 21

patsy_mccabe

ruben37 wrote: »

Please produce the stats to back up your claim above? Id like to see them if you have them!!!

This out fit, IE the ICBF are claiming our best producing pedigree cows are 2,3 stars and the worst of them is 4 star. Now I am very pissed off, I have taken hits of a monkey in monetary terms for cows in calf of late due the the stats provided by the ICBF.

Now the average calving interval for all cows in the herd, in lay man terms is a calf every year bar one of the so called 4 star cows she it a dude and for the factory. I have to prid her this year and last!. The 2 and 3 star cows a produce good calves every year and all well over the average wean weights, but yet them lot tell me we breed to terminal and have no milk a ******* joke.

In all honesty they are talking bull Dung and they wish to do dam all about it, it is flawed bigtime. I have all wean weights going back 15 years but yet weeks later, I am still awaiting an answer if I can correct the misinformation that they have published.

Ruben, When ICBF apply stars to your cows, they are looking, not just at your cows but, also to all relative of your cows on other farms.
No offence, but anyone could increase weanling weights on their own farm by simply feeding more meal. That's why ICBF don't put much faith into data coming from just one farm. That's why the AI bulls, used on many different farms, have such high reliability figures.

Remember when the EBI figures first came out for Dairy cattle. There were lots of breeders up in arms when their high yielding cows were getting such low EBI figures. Now everyone takes them as part of the course. Given time, the same will happen for the Beef Stars figures. Rant over.

poor farmer

mattP wrote: »

Will this genotyping actually do any good/change anything?
I have a great charolais bull, great quality calves, none needed assistance so far (this is his second season) and like the father very docile! No need to use a stick with him, put out your hands in front of him and he'll walk in the opposite direction Hes down as a one star animal, his sire isnt marked which doesn't help either, I suppose
On the other hand I have a runtish poly bull calf, just got him to throw under a cow that had too much milk. "Five stars". I'll be damned before he sires anything! He'll be castrated before he knows it :P

Don't get too too friendly with that quiet bull. That's the lad that would get you when you least expect.

ruben37

blue5000 wrote: »

Ruben have a look here

Page 21

Blue I had to remove your little booklet as I do not have the permissions to post links yet. If your correct, you might explain why there are 10 a day dropping out of the Beef Data and Genomics Program? By the way among those opting out are some of the top suckler herds in Ireland.

Many of the stars are off the wall for a very high percentage of breeders pedigree and others. They have no option but to opt out as they can not correct the misinformation they the ICBF have published.

The Six information meetings that are being rolled out by the Department of Agriculture in a bid to stem the exit of farmers will be interesting. I hope to attend a few in different regions to try and get a general consensus of the observations for and against before making my next move.

tanko

ruben37 wrote: »

With ten a day doping out of this farce of a scheme, are ye guys mad or just hungry for money! Being honest if they had asked me to participate on what I would call a pilot scheme for lets say five years to assess data on improving the gene pool in Ireland. I would have said yes no problem as a pedigree breeder I already submit majority of information required. But no they want to add service fees, penalties and publish a totally flawed, what I would call a score board, that has caused havoc for many breeders/suckler farmers all over Ireland.

If pedigree breeders are so unhappy with ICBF figures for their cattle why have the breed societies not stopped displaying icbf data at their sales like they threatened to do if changes weren't made to the way figures are calculated?

blue5000

ruben37 wrote: »

Blue I had to remove your little booklet as I do not have the permissions to post links yet. If your correct, you might explain why there are 10 a day dropping out of the Beef Data and Genomics Program? By the way among those opting out are some of the top suckler herds in Ireland.

Many of the stars are off the wall for a very high percentage of breeders pedigree and others. They have no option but to opt out as they can not correct the misinformation they the ICBF have published.

The Six information meetings that are being rolled out by the Department of Agriculture in a bid to stem the exit of farmers will be interesting. I hope to attend a few in different regions to try and get a general consensus of the observations for and against before making my next move.

I've no idea why, maybe they are all going into dairying. Another possibility is 5 yrs is a long time if you are getting on in years.

I don't know what pedigree breeders got up to in the past, maybe they're scared of being found out.

I'm sticking with it for now, did the tagging last week, as far as I can see it's a win win situation for suckler farmers, improve the herd and get paid to do it.

farawaygrass

I have a question maybe ye can answer. I bought a 4 star bull this summer, before the scheme started as such. There is one line I read that is bothering me in the scheme. It says something along the lines of "by the last year of the scheme a 4 or 5 star bull has to be bought in the timeframe of the scheme itself". Anyone know anything about this?

annubis

farawaygrass wrote: »

I have a question maybe ye can answer. I bought a 4 star bull this summer, before the scheme started as such. There is one line I read that is bothering me in the scheme. It says something along the lines of "by the last year of the scheme a 4 or 5 star bull has to be bought in the timeframe of the scheme itself". Anyone know anything about this?

when you got your eurostar report it should tell you if your bull is eligible or not, my bull was bought back in 2010 but report says he is eligible so i guess thats all thats needed ?