Uncle wants to take 11 year old on Holidays on their own Mod Warning #51

Oink · 14-09-2020 3:31pm

I trust my brothers with my life and I would still find it weird. Not that they would ask, because it’s weird.

I’ll assume that the brother-in-law is a 100% straight-up guy. It’s still weird.
Going away with an 11 year old girl who’s not your own for 2 nights, with COVID in full blast? How does that... Just... What?

Duke of Url · 14-09-2020 3:33pm

Oink wrote: »

I trust my brothers with my life and I would still find it weird. Not that they would ask, because it’s weird.

I’ll assume that the brother-in-law is a 100% straight-up guy. It’s still weird.
Going away with an 11 year old girl who’s not your own for 2 nights, with COVID in full blast? How does that... Just... What?

Would you think its weird if an Uncle was to bring their Nephew over to Anfield or Old Trafford to watch a match?

Onshuh · 14-09-2020 3:35pm

Not a hope would I allow it. It's not appropriate. He might be sound and nothing untoward might happen but I'm the guardian of my daughter and I wouldn't take that risk on her behalf. The majority of sexual abuse cases are committed by a member of the family or someone well known to the family.

nj27 · 14-09-2020 3:36pm

Covid would be enough to 86 this idea for me, that aside I assume if there were any real reason to believe this guy is ped you wouldn’t be asking this question. I’d still be unlikely to allow it considering the kid’s age, tough to be away from the aul pair abroad at 11.

Oink · 14-09-2020 3:38pm

Imagine she was absolutely dying to go to a concert, and there was no one else to take her. It involves staying overnight. The uncle offers to take her because she’s desperate to go and he’s the cool uncle. A bit awkward, but there would be a reason, and he’d be trying to be nice.

So... Does he have an amazing memory-making trip in mind that would justify “a few nights” abroad? Or is he freewheeling it without a clue as I suspect he is?

@duke of Earl: This should answer your question - we posted at the same time.

Duke of Url · 14-09-2020 3:46pm

OP. Are you sure the The BIL and his girlfriend are not going on holiday and are offering to bring your daughter also?

raclle · 14-09-2020 3:56pm

Oink wrote: »

Or is he freewheeling it without a clue as I suspect he is?

OPs description is very vague so that's what anyone can only base it on. We obv need more information before anyone can really start to criticize but its quite unfair to do so until then.

stesaurus · 14-09-2020 4:00pm

Check his Netflix watch history. If cuties is on it then we should all head around to his house to deliver some mob justice.

For actual sensible advice then...he's clearly trying to impress the new girlfriend. It was probably her suggestion. Fairly standard to see what kind of dad he'd likely be.
I've always been pretty close with my nephews and nieces and the same with my ex and current girlfriends'. It would be normal for me to take the kids on my own and nobody would bat an eyelid if we offered to take them away as a couple.

Kaybaykwah · 14-09-2020 4:18pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Ever?
How about scouts? School trips? Football? Visits to Granny and Grandad?

As a parent all you can do is make the best decisions you can. You cannot protect your child 24 hours a day. It comes to a stage where you have to trust people whether they are schoolteachers, creche workers, scout leaders, football coaches etc. You can reduce perceived risk but you can't eliminate it without restricting the childs movements to an unreasonable degree.

It just so happens that abusers find their way to the types of occupations you listed. Of course you can't be everywhere, but honestly, the uncle alone with your 11yr old girl is a bit much. Better safe than sorry. A lot of folks are supposed to have your best interests at heart, but don't.

I recently watched testimony from a victim in the Haddad case. He was the US gymnastics team's doctor therapist.
Therapist was in fact The Rapist to dozens of girls for years. The victim in question stated that she had complained to her parents, he was confronted, and they never believed her.
A lot of crummy people around.

NeVeR · 14-09-2020 4:34pm

We don't know this person at all.. so we can't really judge.

But when I was younger 9/10/11/12 my uncle brought me everywhere - Mancherster / Paris / even the US!! It was more a father to me then my dad ( is is still amazing, but he just had to work all the time)

0ph0rce0 · 14-09-2020 4:44pm

I think you're all mad.

Going by the posts nobody here would trust their own brothers/family and if asked to go out or away automatically think he's A) a peado or

gonna beat your child.

Neither of those would even cross my mind.

Everyone that has already posted saying I wouldn't, you actually thinking your bro/bro in law is a peado?

What is wrong with yous?

Zhane · 14-09-2020 5:49pm

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

I think you're all mad.

Going by the posts nobody here would trust their own brothers/family and if asked to go out or away automatically think he's A) a peado or gonna beat your child.

Neither of those would even cross my mind.

Everyone that has already posted saying I wouldn't, you actually thinking your bro/bro in law is a peado?

What is wrong with yous?

I absolutely agree. I’ve been following this thread for a while now and I’m actually so mad. I love my nieces and nephew and They’ve even stayed over night in my house while my sister and her husband wanted a night off or we’re going out. And I doubt they’d have a problem if I wanted to take them away somewhere as long as they didn’t have to miss school. If my sister or her husband thought of me the way some people on this thread, I would be seriously hurt. But I’ve never given them a reason to not trust me.

I didn’t move out of home until my early 30s. Mainly because I was saving for my own place and it just made sense. Don’t think that’s something I should have to be demonised for? So why should the BIL?

14-09-2020 5:56pm

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

I think you're all mad.

Going by the posts nobody here would trust their own brothers/family and if asked to go out or away automatically think he's A) a peado or gonna beat your child.

Neither of those would even cross my mind.

Everyone that has already posted saying I wouldn't, you actually thinking your bro/bro in law is a peado?

What is wrong with yous?

I don't trust my brother with my kids.

Mainly because I have seen him with his own kids and consider him a poor father. I also know his addictions reduce his capacity to make good decisions and are his primary concern.

They are my children and the primary concern above all else. Many would do to remember that when considering hurting someone's feelings

Zhane · 14-09-2020 6:01pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

I don't trust my brother with my kids.

Mainly because I have seen him with his own kids and consider him a poor father. I also know his addictions reduce his capacity to make good decisions and are his primary concern.

They are my children and the primary concern above all else. Many would do to remember that when considering hurting someone's feelings

Yeah but you’ve given a (valid) reason why you would have said no. The OP have given us nothing to suggest this. And then we have the the posters saying it’s weird anyway. It’s not weird, it’s part of being a family.

jam_mac_jam · 14-09-2020 6:02pm

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

I think you're all mad.

Going by the posts nobody here would trust their own brothers/family and if asked to go out or away automatically think he's A) a peado or gonna beat your child.

Neither of those would even cross my mind.

Everyone that has already posted saying I wouldn't, you actually thinking your bro/bro in law is a peado?

What is wrong with yous?

Yeah I completely agree. I was quite close to a couple of my uncles growing up. Never occurred to anyone they would do anything. Just happened to get on with them.

My nephew stays with me all the time. I think it's a completely weird way to look at your family.

Faith · 14-09-2020 6:10pm

If this chap had ill intentions, whatever they may be, there’d most likely be plenty of signs of it before now, if you looked for them. He’d be offering to babysit, stopping by unexpectedly to spend time with his niece, taking her on local trips, offering to drive her places, basically finding any reason to be alone with her without raising suspicion.

The OP can’t even describe the type of relationship the uncle and child have, and suggests that they typically only see each other at the grandparents’ house. While it might be odd that he’s offering to take her away, I think it’s insane to jump to the conclusion that it’s anything nefarious.

Very few familial child abusers go straight to taking a child abroad for several days to abuse them, tbh.

14-09-2020 6:26pm

I don't get the paranoia around this at all. I know plenty of aunties/uncles with better relationships with kids than their own parents.

If I wanted to take my brothers kids away for a weekend somewhere I'd say they'd be more than happy to (would never happen, as I hate kids, but you know what i mean, there would be no trust issues).

Honestly, OP, you sound a bit strange yourself. Judging someone on where they live or if they're single or not is a bit weird, in and of itself, to be honest (in my opinion). Especially at a time when half the country has kids and parents living together up to all ages.

14-09-2020 6:55pm

Zhane wrote: »

Yeah but you’ve given a (valid) reason why you would have said no. The OP have given us nothing to suggest this. And then we have the the posters saying it’s weird anyway. It’s not weird, it’s part of being a family.

Indeed but by the same token, the fact it's an uncle doesn't mean it's all good. Yes, calling him a paedo is a bit much but so too are the people shrugging their shoulders over it and considering the uncle's feelings over their concerns.

The op for example, hasn't suggested any common bond or interest at play. A football match for example. I would have been closer to my uncle's through marriage than my actual blood uncle's because of music and football. So yeah, one brought me to gigs and I watched many a game with the other. What's the connection here?

Zhane · 14-09-2020 7:03pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Indeed but by the same token, the fact it's an uncle doesn't mean it's all good. Yes, calling him a paedo is a bit much but so too are the people shrugging their shoulders over it and considering the uncle's feelings over their concerns.

The op for example, hasn't suggested any common bond or interest at play. A football match for example. I would have been closer to my uncle's through marriage than my actual blood uncle's because of music and football. So yeah, one brought me to gigs and I watched many a game with the other. What's the connection here?

The OP said it was a standard relationship, I suppose that would depends on what you view as a standard relationship. Mine would be based on my family, your standard relationship will be different based on your family history with your brother. He has said nothing to say the uncle is a bad person at all. The OP has only said he lives at home and only recently started seeing someone.

raclle · 14-09-2020 7:12pm

Zhane wrote: »

He has said nothing to say the uncle is a bad person other than he lives at home.

There could be many a reason he lives at home. Saving for his own place, unable to afford to move out, out of work etc

I feel we as a nation just assume things without thinking for a logical explanation and suddenly jump to the worst conclusion

Zhane · 14-09-2020 7:15pm

raclle wrote: »

There could be many a reason he lives at home. Saving for his own place, unable to afford to move out, out of work etc

I feel we as a nation just assume things without thinking for a logical explanation and suddenly jump to the worst conclusion

Oh I know, I definitely worded that badly. I was in the living at home camp until very recently, My apologies for the lack of clarity.

John Hutton · 14-09-2020 7:16pm

This thread has made me sad.

I used to spend a fair bit of time with my uncle, he used to take me fishing and camping. I guess this wouldn't happen now as he'd be afraid to offer to take me nowadays in case people think he is weird or a pedo.

eleventh · 14-09-2020 7:17pm

jam mac jam wrote:

I think it's a completely weird way to look at your family.

Not necessarily. Every family is different. It's better to err on the side of caution when you're not sure about someone, especially where it involves children.

I'd agree though that it's not ideal, but that's a separate issue.

Rubberchikken · 14-09-2020 7:26pm

A single man at home with parents is no more or less likely to interfere with a child than its parent or someone in comes into contact with through school or activities.

I would be very aware of kids safety and would never be willing to take even the smallest chance but I would never assume someone is guilty of something based on looks/life.

This type of trip needs thought, not assumptions.

eleventh · 14-09-2020 7:27pm

raclle wrote:

I feel we as a nation just assume things without thinking for a logical explanation and suddenly jump to the worst conclusion

That does happen a lot as well. It's probably always going to happen in general, but it shouldn't really when it comes to family. Family should be important enough to have time for people and take time to get to know in-laws and everyone spends quality time together. Families aren't as strong as they used to be.

14-09-2020 7:32pm

Paedophiles have more genes in common with crabs than they do with you and me. Now that's a scientific fact: there's no real evidence for it, but it is scientific fact.

OP, does your brother-in-law walk funny? Like kinda side to side?

Miaireland · 14-09-2020 7:33pm

Without knowing your inlaws it is hard to say what his motives are.
Could be to impress his girlfriend, could be that he really wants to go to Harry Potter world and would feel bit standing out as a adult as his own (wrongly).

However given Covid I would be saying no. Self isolating for two weeks after the trip will impact on schooling.

At eleven how would your daughter cope if she started menstruating while away with your bil?

raclle · 14-09-2020 7:42pm

Zhane wrote: »

Oh I know, I definitely worded that badly. I was in the living at home camp until very recently, My apologies for the lack of clarity.

Sorry, you might have picked me up wrong. I was agreeing with you

raclle · 14-09-2020 7:50pm

Miaireland wrote: »

Without knowing your inlaws it is hard to say what his motives are.
Could be to impress his girlfriend, could be that he really wants to go to Harry Potter world and would feel bit standing out as a adult as his own (wrongly)

Exactly!

I (male) often babysat for my nieces and nephews. I also used to bring them for a day out with my own and in fact me and my sis are planning on bringing them over to the HP studio in London next year (depending on covid of course) and if she wasn't able to go she'd certainly have no objection with me bringing them.

As you said its all about knowing your in-laws which I mentioned previously for "their" own piece of mind.

kerry cow · 14-09-2020 7:51pm

I think as adults and in this day and age,all things considered , coming off all the knowledge of the last 20 years of exposure , it would surprise you that abuse still takes place today , but with that said especially in the context of family ,we should be able to make a fairly reliable opinion on the type of character of our ,uncles and aunty's , brothers etc , we have been studying them all our lives , so unless we are thicko's , then you and your wife are the best to judge that one , not any of us here .end of

Pawwed Rig · 14-09-2020 8:17pm

Miaireland wrote: »

At eleven how would your daughter cope if she started menstruating while away with your bil?

Good grief

eleventh · 14-09-2020 8:24pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Good grief

It's a legitimate concern.

Darc19 · 14-09-2020 8:25pm

This is what happens when people believe every bit of scaremongering sh1te in tabloids and social media.

The OP should grow some balls and start thinking for himself rather than believe fakebook and tabloids.

Aunts and uncles take nieces and nephews on holidays, days out, babysitting etc etc every day of the year.

My niece stays in my house when she is over from America and has been doing so for years.

My brother brings my nephew (14) on golf trips.

It quite normal in most normal families that don't take their thought process from tabloids or fakebook

amadangomor · 14-09-2020 9:02pm

Darc19 wrote: »

This is what happens when people believe every bit of scaremongering sh1te in tabloids and social media.

The OP should grow some balls and start thinking for himself rather than believe fakebook and tabloids.

Aunts and uncles take nieces and nephews on holidays, days out, babysitting etc etc every day of the year.

My niece stays in my house when she is over from America and has been doing so for years.

My brother brings my nephew (14) on golf trips.

It quite normal in most normal families that don't take their thought process from tabloids or fakebook

I agree with you on the Facebook crap but I also know people who have been abused by their uncles so it does happen. Nothing to do with normal or not. Very normal families can have people who abuse in them.

Just because you have experience of a good uncle nephew and niece relationships doesn't take away from the fact that there are many examples of abuse in these situations happening all the time.

No way would I let my kids of similar age away on a trip with any man. Even if the risk is very small, not worth taking it. Sad but that's the reality of the World.

amadangomor · 14-09-2020 9:06pm

kerry cow wrote: »

I think as adults and in this day and age,all things considered , coming off all the knowledge of the last 20 years of exposure , it would surprise you that abuse still takes place today , but with that said especially in the context of family ,we should be able to make a fairly reliable opinion on the type of character of our ,uncles and aunty's , brothers etc , we have been studying them all our lives , so unless we are thicko's , then you and your wife are the best to judge that one , not any of us here .end of

As we've seen plenty of peoples Paedar within families also has been off in Ireland for a long time.

Realt Dearg Sec · 14-09-2020 9:13pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Paedophiles have more genes in common with crabs than they do with you and me. Now that's a scientific fact: there's no real evidence for it, but it is scientific fact.

OP, does your brother-in-law walk funny? Like kinda side to side?

This is complete nonce sense.

no.8 · 14-09-2020 9:22pm

I find this part weird. In normal times, why would you not wasnt to spend time in a big city going on an adventure with your daughter/son? Sounds like you're overly sensitive to the concerns of the woke generation.

Darc19 · 14-09-2020 9:27pm

amadangomor wrote: »

I agree with you on the Facebook crap but I also know people who have been abused by their uncles so it does happen. Nothing to do with normal or not. Very normal families can have people who abuse in them.

Just because you have experience of a good uncle nephew and niece relationships doesn't take away from the fact that there are many examples of abuse in these situations happening all the time.

No way would I let my kids of similar age away on a trip with any man. Even if the risk is very small, not worth taking it. Sad but that's the reality of the World.

The op has known his brother in law for at least 12 years, yet has "no opinion" and a "standard" relationship, but can't make a fairly basic judgment of trust.

It's the op that has the issue if he cannot make a judgment after 12 years.

I would advise against the trip as far too many people think like the op and that could be detrimental to the brother in law.

So I'd be explaining that the optics to a certain cohort that take their train of thought from tabloids and scaremongering fakebook groups would mean it may cause issues and thus best to have another person or to cancel it.

odyssey06 · 14-09-2020 9:34pm

Darc19 wrote: »

This is what happens when people believe every bit of scaremongering sh1te in tabloids and social media.
The OP should grow some balls and start thinking for himself rather than believe fakebook and tabloids.
Aunts and uncles take nieces and nephews on holidays, days out, babysitting etc etc every day of the year.
My niece stays in my house when she is over from America and has been doing so for years.
My brother brings my nephew (14) on golf trips.
It quite normal in most normal families that don't take their thought process from tabloids or fakebook

This does seem a bit random... whats the shared interest / hobby across the generations sending them to London?
If they were both Spurs fans grand.
If they were both scifi fans going to a convention grand.

If the uncle was bringing the gf along I would say it is trial run for them as parents.

I just dont see the angle here.
At best the uncle is a bit clueless trying to impress gf that he can take care of a kid... and forgetting any illicit angle I am dubious about the parenting skills here should anything happen in London.
It seems out of the blue that first proposal to engage with niece in this way involves London.

Darc19 · 14-09-2020 10:24pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

I just dont see the angle here.
At best the uncle is a bit clueless trying to impress gf that he can take care of a kid... and forgetting any illicit angle I am dubious about the parenting skills here should anything happen in London.
It seems out of the blue that first proposal to engage with niece in this way involves London.

How do you get that? Op has simply degenerated his brother in law and in my opinion it is the op that has a problem.

In the OP, he says that his brother in law is "living with his mammy and daddy"

That alone says that the op has the problem and has an issue with his brother in law. Op's wife doesn't have an issue.

Possibly there are issues between the op and his wife. Certainly the denigrating description of his brother in law and the fact he does not have an opinion after 12+ years would suggest that the op's issue is in the mirror

odyssey06 · 14-09-2020 10:33pm

Darc19 wrote: »

How do you get that? Op has simply degenerated his brother in law and in my opinion it is the op that has a problem.
In the OP, he says that his brother in law is "living with his mammy and daddy"
That alone says that the op has the problem and has an issue with his brother in law. Op's wife doesn't have an issue.
Possibly there are issues between the op and his wife. Certainly the denigrating description of his brother in law and the fact he does not have an opinion after 12+ years would suggest that the op's issue is in the mirror

Unless the uncle has been a carer to 'mammy and daddy' I would question the lifeskills of someone who never lived independently should anything unexpected happen in London with a child...
It is possible both for the OPs reaction to be OTT based on previous opinion of the uncle AND for it still to be a bad idea...

The uncle has never babysat for the niece on his own... not one night but out of the blue a weekend getaway to London is the first such offer?
Something doesnt add up.

Antares35 · 15-09-2020 12:15am

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

If something happened that left the children needing to be looked after long term by somebody that isn’t their parents or grandparents, who would you choose, a stranger or family?

For what it's worth on this point, our daughter is four months old and OH and I are in the process of drafting a will that ensures nobody from my family will have custody of her if we both die. People can and do make provision for the welfare of their children every day, and sometimes that involves heartbreaking decisions, it's just not exactly something you'd bring up as casual conversation in the office over coffee.

screamer · 15-09-2020 12:49am

I’d worry more about practical things such as
How will your daughter be on a weekend away with an uncle in a different country? I know my daughter won’t do sleepovers with her cousins as she’s not happy to be away from home overnight.
What if your daughter was to fret or be homesick? He may well have to book the next flight home.
Other things are the accommodation arrangements? Regardless, there’s no good solution. I certainly wouldn’t want a 10 year old in a hotel room on their own, if she’s to share with her uncle, that might make her uncomfortable.
If you’re really wanting to test the motives, then offer to tag along, make a bit of a trip out of it, and see what his reaction is. If he’s cool with that then fine, if he isn’t, that’ll tell you what you need to know.
Personally purely based on the first 2 points and knowing the naivety that some people ( especially those who have no kids of their own) have towards how much a kid will curtail your trips away, and encroach in the freedom you’d otherwise have without a child in tow, I’d be saying no to this request.

bobbyy gee · 15-09-2020 12:50am

with covid i would not let her go
it also seems a strange request

15-09-2020 2:20am

eleventh wrote: »

It's a legitimate concern.

No. No it isn't.

15-09-2020 2:23am

For fear of dragging this off topic, I just want to make one observation, isn't it mad that an uncle taking his niece away can be seen as some sort of mad paedo tendancy. If he identified as her aunt........

15-09-2020 3:50am

Without context and ignoring the op trying to imply context without being specific there is only one recommendation'

Do you think your child will be inappropriately looked after (bearing in mind only you, and you alone, can know this as context is key?)

If you think your child would enjoy the holiday and you trust your brother in law, let her go (Pandemic pending).

If you think your brother in law is unable to care for her, don't let her go.

This is pointless.

You have picked holes in your brother in law's life and have purposely made him out to be sinister.

Unless the op gives context, this is a moot thread and an embarrassment.

Wanderer78 · 15-09-2020 7:24am

SCOL wrote:

He is 40 and still lives with Mammy and Daddy only got a Girlfriend a few months ago. I was shocked when she said it to me am I over reacting ? as I wouldn't even drop any of her friends off without her been in the car.

There's a chance this chap could be autistic, and may not understand the social rules in this situation, as there's a level of naivety in such situations, it could be a simple gesture of friendliness and kindness

hurleronditch · 15-09-2020 7:50am

I imagine this is an effort at generosity and kindness that is clunky and misguided in the context of social norms, rather than anything sinister.

I have a 9 year old niece with whom I have a fantastic relationship, and my sister would trust me to the ends of the world with her. That being said, I wouldn’t ever make this offer, not specifically for child protection reasons but just because it isn’t necessarily something my niece has requested or wants to do so why would I offer. Does she have some favorite musical like wicked which might be a reason why an 11 year old girl wants to go to London? Or does the uncle have a history/connections in London that made him suggest it?

I’d reckon rather than causing any weirdness in the family, I’d suggest that with covid and school requirements and that your daughter isn’t used to being away from ye for too long, it’s too big a trip for now. But maybe suggest that why doesn’t he take her for a day trip somewhere instead - Tayto Park, shopping centre for a treat, a meal and the cinema, the zoo, a match or whatever the girl is into.

That is much more normal for an uncle niece relationship and to be honest is just easier for everyone.

15-09-2020 7:55am

screamer wrote: »

Personally purely based on the first 2 points and knowing the naivety that some people ( especially those who have no kids of their own) have towards how much a kid will curtail your trips away, and encroach in the freedom you’d otherwise have without a child in tow, I’d be saying no to this request.

I think that word sums up best the nature of this particular request- the inexperience that comes with not having kids of your own- ie you don’t know what you don’t know-can lead to such requests. Brother in law hasn’t thought this idea through, for whatever reason- up to the parents to set him straight - be it for Covid-19, practicality of sleeping arrangements, home sickness, young age of the child etc reasons-choose whatever you feel appropriate.

It’s an easy request to say no to- I’m not really sure the purpose of the thread but maybe the OP needs to learn how to assert himself more with decisions that concern his kids- this would be a no brainer for me. I wouldn’t be asking boards for advice

Uncle wants to take 11 year old on Holidays on their own Mod Warning #51

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