Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

TomOnBoard · 02-07-2020 3:55pm

Quin_Dub wrote: »

That site has details on all the elections - Tends to focus on the "swing" ones , but they are all there

The background on all the Senate races is here

Jeez, that's an impressive site. Dunno how I missed it... I need to sit down and walk through the possible House and Senate seat exchanges in Nov. There goes Sunday!!

TomOnBoard · 02-07-2020 4:00pm

Gbear wrote: »

I heard a funny suggestion the other day on Al Franken's podcast.

There's a no age limit for SC justices, so nominate a toddler, and they'll be there for 70+ years! :pac:

Honestly, it's a load of despicable ignorant bull****.

The use of the cold war imagery bespeaks the absolute basement-tier level of political discourse in the US. The Never Trump Republicans bear a huge amount of the responsibility for the state of the planet, and the advent of Trumpism.

The idea that the problem is a giant evil monolithic empire in Russia is an incredibly convenient excuse for people who legalised bribery in the US, and for whom it suits to play up a narrative that it woz them that did it, when they run in the same oligarchic circles as Trump, and Putin's other cronies.

They're utterly despicable people, and I hope not only is Trumpism defeated, but all the schemes in propagating climate change, war-mongering, religious ignorance, racism and white supremacy, that those supposed honest brokers who are just reasonable people, dontcha'know, and can't be compared to the party they've opportunistically abandoned, are as well.

Sometimes in war, the enemy of my enemy is my 'friend'..

ZeroThreat · 02-07-2020 4:16pm

sid waddell wrote: »

Ghislaine Maxwell has been arrested by the FBI and will be charged with four counts relating to the sexual abuse of minors and two counts of perjury.

Press conference to be held by SDNY at 5pm our time.

I can't help thinking that this explains Barr's sacking of SDNY US Attorney Geoffrey Berman.

Despite his claims to the contrary, I'd say prince Andrew is sweating quite a bit right now....

Tchaikovsky · 02-07-2020 4:21pm

ZeroThreat wrote: »

Despite his claims to the contrary, I'd say prince Andrew is sweating quite a bit right now....

Unless Ghislaine gets suicided too.

ZeroThreat · 02-07-2020 4:26pm

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

Unless Ghislaine gets suicided too.

Tbh that was the first though that crossed my mind when I read about her arrest on this thread, but I didn't want to put the mockers on it...

Inquitus · 02-07-2020 4:27pm

sid waddell wrote: »

Ghislaine Maxwell has been arrested by the FBI and will be charged with four counts relating to the sexual abuse of minors and two counts of perjury.

Press conference to be held by SDNY at 5pm our time.

I can't help thinking that this explains Barr's sacking of SDNY US Attorney Geoffrey Berman.

From what I have seen in the news, on Panorama, on Netflix documentaries etc. it seems she was more than knee deep in Epstein's carry on, so it is hard to see how she doesn't end up serving some serious time over this. Obviously throwing Andy under the bus potentially gives her an out, so as others have mentioned if I was Andrew, I would be shítting myself!

Hopefully justice is done, because both Andrew and Ghislain seem to have committed some heinous crimes, and regardless of their status, they should pay the penalty for what they have done!

Quin_Dub · 02-07-2020 4:30pm

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

Unless Ghislaine gets suicided too.

It's not like it hasn't happened to a Maxwell before...

TomOnBoard · 02-07-2020 4:46pm

ZeroThreat wrote: »

Tbh that was the first though that crossed my mind when I read about her arrest on this thread, but I didn't want to put the mockers on it...

This announcement has all the hallmarks of a negotiated arrest, i.e. a packaged deal including agreed charges, likely pleas, possible terms of an incarceration including her personal security etc. She's probably given loads of depositions already, so that her knowledge of the criminality of others has been committed to video, thereby negating the value of her being 'suicided'. If the FBI follows previous form, she's been turned by now, and has spilled the beans already. How far and wide those beans will spread is anyone's guess at this point, but it ain't gonna be pretty.

On the other hand, I could be totally wrong, and she's been arrested while hiding out disguised as a Nun in a convent somewhere, and she'll be toast by Monday!

Carfacemandog · 02-07-2020 5:27pm

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

Unless Ghislaine gets suicided too.

Surely not. She'll be under the watchful eye of William 'Trumps legal bodyguard' Barr like Jeffrey Epstein before her when he was the highest profile prisoner in the US justice system. What could possibly go wrong?

sid waddell · 02-07-2020 6:30pm

TomOnBoard wrote: »

This announcement has all the hallmarks of a negotiated arrest, i.e. a packaged deal including agreed charges, likely pleas, possible terms of an incarceration including her personal security etc. She's probably given loads of depositions already, so that her knowledge of the criminality of others has been committed to video, thereby negating the value of her being 'suicided'. If the FBI follows previous form, she's been turned by now, and has spilled the beans already. How far and wide those beans will spread is anyone's guess at this point, but it ain't gonna be pretty.

On the other hand, I could be totally wrong, and she's been arrested while hiding out disguised as a Nun in a convent somewhere, and she'll be toast by Monday!

And I would guess it will be "negotiated" so as not to spill the beans on anybody really important, ie. anybody or any country, the involvement of whom/which would have serious political implications.

Guy:Incognito · 02-07-2020 7:07pm

What is this he's on about now?

https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/1278686560226086913?s=19

The dead people are "bad lives" or what?

looksee · 02-07-2020 7:32pm

No, its clear from the full context that its the life of the virus he is talking about. Its a stupid analogy, but he isn't talking about killing anyone. There is enough stuff to accuse him of without inventing stuff.

moon2 · 02-07-2020 7:56pm

looksee wrote: »

No, its clear from the full context that its the life of the virus he is talking about. Its a stupid analogy, but he isn't talking about killing anyone. There is enough stuff to accuse him of without inventing stuff.

When taken in context the response is bad as it's even more rambling than usual.

The positive reading of it is that he simply is uninformed and so cannot give a coherent response. The negative reading would be that he's incapable of understanding what's going on.

Igotadose · 02-07-2020 8:04pm

sid waddell wrote: »

And I would guess it will be "negotiated" so as not to spill the beans on anybody really important, ie. anybody or any country, the involvement of whom/which would have serious political implications.

I wouldn't be so certain of that. I expect we won't hear anything for awhile as she's interviewed. There'll be a dribble of information at best; the investigators do this to make the guilty parties sweat. Then, one by one they start turning up the pressure through leaks. One sings, then the others start chiming in, no one wants to be last to sing.

02-07-2020 8:59pm

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Jeez, that's an impressive site. Dunno how I missed it... I need to sit down and walk through the possible House and Senate seat exchanges in Nov. There goes Sunday!!

I usually use https://electoral-vote.com
It's worth reading more or less daily. It has lots of background and unlike a lot of places they caveat most results where it's needed. They're a bit too centrish-Democrat leaning for my liking but I've been reading it for over 15 years at this stage which feels very strange to say about anything on the internet. :P

Itssoeasy · 02-07-2020 10:18pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

What is this he's on about now?

https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/1278686560226086913?s=19

The dead people are "bad lives" or what?

That quote doesn't make any sense. It's a word salad.

Sonics2k · 02-07-2020 10:20pm

I am genuinely, truly and excited to see people try and defend this one. I personally have veered away from calling Trump a Nazi, despite the slew of Nazi supporters he has. I figured he was just some old jackass without outdated views, but not actually looking for the Nazi vote directly.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7130932/trump-nazi-eagle-logo-america-first/

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1278484113918431232

Now yes, one can argue that the Yanks love to use an Eagle on all their motifs, however this one so closely resembles the Nazi symbol it's insane.

Penn · 02-07-2020 10:53pm

Sonics2k wrote: »

I am genuinely, truly and excited to see people try and defend this one. I personally have veered away from calling Trump a Nazi, despite the slew of Nazi supporters he has. I figured he was just some old jackass without outdated views, but not actually looking for the Nazi vote directly.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7130932/trump-nazi-eagle-logo-america-first/

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1278484113918431232

Now yes, one can argue that the Yanks love to use an Eagle on all their motifs, however this one so closely resembles the Nazi symbol it's insane.

It really gets to the point where you could call some of them coincidences, but not all of them. Collectively, there are so many subtle nods to Nazi ideology or white supremacy symbolism that it just can't be coincidental.

Who are the people making these decisions though, because in fairness I doubt Trump himself is anywhere near this stuff.

Carfacemandog · 02-07-2020 10:53pm

Pretty telling that the eagle in us insignia usually has the flag as its chest/breast, while that one is perched atop as the nazi one was (the standard German one isn't either): https://www.google.com/search?q=us+eagle+badge&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwj5t9PVxa_qAhWmSEEAHWmnCvEQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=us+eagle+badge&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQA1AAWABgxpcBaABwAHgAgAEAiAEAkgEAmAEAqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWc&sclient=img&ei=7lX-XvmIGKaRhbIP6c6qiA8&bih=718&biw=412

There are more important things like covid and the latest bout of Russian subservience to worry about, and more interesting things like how long until Ghislaine Maxwell gets suicided under Trumps watch as Epstein was, and not just the fact that Berman's firing at the SDNY may well have been related to this case (Trump and Barr tried - and failed - to replace him with a crony), but that the same SDNY was the ones who were prosecuting Trump and Epstein for child rape back in the 1990s: https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Johnson_TrumpEpstein_Lawsuit.pdf

But yeah, between the nazi eagle and $88 baseball's on the same day, it's not an accident. I'd bet good money there's an Easter egg for the number 14 in there somewhere too.

Water John · 02-07-2020 11:08pm

Greg Abbot Govn'r Texas makes wearing masks mandatory.

aloyisious · 02-07-2020 11:59pm

The hospitalization of Herman Cain, a former GOP presidential candidate, because he's been infected by Covid-19 so soon after attending the Trump Tulsa rally should send shivers down the back of others who attended it as it shows the worth of the disclaimer they may have signed protecting the Trump campaign. People willing to attend Trumps July 4th Mount Rushmore fireworks event [which he reckons will total 100,000] also have to sign a similar disclosure. The masks and social spacing are not a requirement as Mount Rushmore is a National Memorial under the National Parks Service, the strictures applying to privately-owned premises/property apparently don't apply when it comes to the planned Trump event.

Itssoeasy · 03-07-2020 12:17am

aloyisious wrote: »

The hospitalization of Herman Cain, a former GOP presidential candidate, because he's been infected by Covid-19 so soon after attending the Trump Tulsa rally should send shivers down the back of others who attended it as it shows the worth of the disclaimer they may have signed protecting the Trump campaign. People willing to attend Trumps July 4th Mount Rushmore fireworks event [which he reckons will total 100,000] also have to sign a similar disclosure. The masks and social spacing are not a requirement as Mount Rushmore is a National Memorial under the National Parks Service, the strictures applying to privately-owned premises/property apparently don't apply when it comes to the planned Trump event.

It should but what about people's freedoms ?

aloyisious · 03-07-2020 7:14am

Itssoeasy wrote: »

It should but what about people's freedoms ?

Eh? If one choose to use one's freedom of choice to give a campaign immunity from any responsibility for one's care while at a campaign event, more fool one when one has after-the-event responsibilities towards others. The fact that one knows it's Trump who benefit's from the event while he's eschewing any similar duty of care for those attending his event makes attending the event at a location under the legal control of a Govt Dept even sillier. Maybe my point was blurred.

An example of silliness: On Capitol Hill, Rep. Andy Biggs (R-Ariz.) on Thursday called for the White House to dissolve its coronavirus task force so that health officials like Anthony Fauci and Deborah Birx are prevented from contradicting many of President Trump's "stated goals and actions" when it comes to the economy. Rep. Andy Biggs (R-Ariz.) -- chair of the right-wing House Freedom Caucus -- not only resides in Maricopa County, he also represents part of it in Congress. Given the public-health crisis in his community, common sense suggests the GOP lawmaker would focus almost entirely on addressing the pandemic. In recent weeks, few states have struggled more with the coronavirus crisis than Arizona, where infection rates are soaring to tragic heights. Maricopa County has had it especially rough, with far more cases than any other county in the state, and roughly half of Arizona's COVID-19 fatalities.

I "borrowed" the contents of my last paragraph from an article by Steve Benen on MSNBC. He's a producer on the Rachel Maddow show.

Midlife · 03-07-2020 7:34am

Itssoeasy wrote: »

It should but what about people's freedoms ?

Personal freedom does not trump civic responsibility and general morality.

You don't just catch a virus yourself, you spread it.

Edit: I get that's not really your point but it's something that bugs me about the current debate in the US.

Roanmore · 03-07-2020 8:05am

Water John wrote: »

Greg Abbot Govn'r Texas makes wearing masks mandatory.

His Deputy will be fuming, he thinks he knows more than Fauci.

Quin_Dub · 03-07-2020 8:28am

Jacksonville just adopted an Indoor Mask mandate

The resurgence of the virus in Florida, where the number of new cases has been rising nearly every day, has turned the convention into an even riskier gamble. In a must-win state for Mr. Trump — and arguably a must-win city for Republicans — recent polls have shown that Jacksonville residents do not want the convention.

Masks will be required in indoor public places and in any other gathering spots where social distancing is not possible, Jacksonville officials said. It is unclear how long the mask order will be in place, but it will presumably apply to the 15,000-seat VyStar Veterans Memorial Arena, where three nights of convention speeches, including Mr. Trump’s, are scheduled for Aug. 24-27.

There are also suggestions that the GOP may cancel it altogether as the terror of another Tulsa style turn-out increases..

This week, Jacksonville, Florida—where Trump moved the Republican National Convention so he could hold a 15,000-person rally next month—mandated that people wear masks indoors to slow the explosion of COVID-19 cases. According to a Republican working on the convention, the campaign is now preparing to cancel the event so that Trump doesn’t suffer another Tulsa–like humiliation. “They probably won’t have it,” the source said. “It’s not going to be the soft landing Trump wanted.”

From the same article linked above :-

With Donald Trump’s approval sinking to Jimmy Carter levels and coronavirus cases spiking across the country, Trump is reluctantly waking up to the grim reality that, if the current situation holds, his reelection is gone. Republicans that have spoken with Trump in recent days describe him as depressed and “down in the dumps.” “People around him think his heart’s not in it,” a Republican close to the White House said. Torn between the imperative to win suburban voters and his instincts to play to his base, Trump has complained to people that he’s in a political box with no obvious way out. According to the Republican, Trump called Tucker Carlson late last week and said, “what do I do? What do I do?”

Igotadose · 03-07-2020 8:55am

moon2 wrote: »

When taken in context the response is bad as it's even more rambling than usual.

The positive reading of it is that he simply is uninformed and so cannot give a coherent response. The negative reading would be that he's incapable of understanding what's going on.

Seems like he's got cognitive issues? Hmm

aloyisious · 03-07-2020 11:55am

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Jacksonville just adopted an Indoor Mask mandate[/URL

From Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacksonville_City_Council [hope its up to date]

Jacksonville City Council members

Map of the city council districts
District Name Party
1 Joyce Morgan Dem
2 Al Ferraro Rep
3 Aaron L. Bowman Rep
4 Scott Wilson Rep
5 LeAnna Cumber Rep
6 Michael Boylan Rep
7 Reggie Gaffney Dem
8 Ju'Coby Pittman Dem
9 Garrett L. Dennis Dem
10 Brenda A. Priestly Jackson Dem
11 Danny Becton Rep
12 Randy White Rep
13 Rory Diamond Rep
14 Randy DeFoor Rep
At-large
Seat 1 Terrance Freeman Rep
Seat 2 Ronald B. Salem Rep
Seat 3 Tommy Hazouri Dem
Seat 4 Matt Carlucci Rep
Seat 5 Samuel Newby Rep

13 GOP members, 6 Dem members when it comes to voting.

Thargor · 03-07-2020 9:57pm

I knew that war crimes pardon was dodgy but didnt realise how bad it was, its actually unbelievable:

https://www.mediaite.com/opinion/watch-soldiers-of-clint-lorances-platoon-react-in-disgust-to-hannitys-interview-with-convicted-and-pardoned-killer/

The way they can latch on to things like Benghazi when its the Democrats and celebrate madness like this is incredible.

TomOnBoard · 03-07-2020 10:39pm

Thargor wrote: »

I knew that war crimes pardon was dodgy but didnt realise how bad it was, its actually unbelievable:

https://www.mediaite.com/opinion/watch-soldiers-of-clint-lorances-platoon-react-in-disgust-to-hannitys-interview-with-convicted-and-pardoned-killer/

The way they can latch on to things like Benghazi when its the Democrats and celebrate madness like this is incredible.

Sweet Jesus! Maybe we're missing something that Hannity saw??

Manic, if you're listening.... Any military perspective?

Dillonb3 · 03-07-2020 11:07pm

Thargor wrote: »

I knew that war crimes pardon was dodgy but didnt realise how bad it was, its actually unbelievable:

https://www.mediaite.com/opinion/watch-soldiers-of-clint-lorances-platoon-react-in-disgust-to-hannitys-interview-with-convicted-and-pardoned-killer/

The way they can latch on to things like Benghazi when its the Democrats and celebrate madness like this is incredible.

He's not the only one he pardoned, remember Eddie Gallagher got pardoned before Christmas and was invited to Mar-a-Lago

Itssoeasy · 03-07-2020 11:24pm

Thargor wrote: »

I knew that war crimes pardon was dodgy but didnt realise how bad it was, its actually unbelievable:

https://www.mediaite.com/opinion/watch-soldiers-of-clint-lorances-platoon-react-in-disgust-to-hannitys-interview-with-convicted-and-pardoned-killer/

The way they can latch on to things like Benghazi when its the Democrats and celebrate madness like this is incredible.

Well that guy sounds like a delight.

Cody montana · 04-07-2020 12:48am

“Protestors have blocked off the road to Mount Rushmore using vans without tires,“

Then could end badly.

Itssoeasy · 04-07-2020 12:54am

I shouldn't laugh given the pandemic but Mexico has closed its border with the USA due to coronavirus. Oh that's funny kind of given what trump said during the campaign and during his presidency.

Itssoeasy · 04-07-2020 12:57am

Cody montana wrote: »

“Protestors have blocked off the road to Mount Rushmore using vans without tires,“

Then could end badly.

Sure the leader of the Native American tribe that legally owns the land around Mt Rushmore(upheld by the SC in 1980) told the president he's not welcome.

StringerBell · 04-07-2020 1:05am

I assume they will get the 7500 in attendance that they are expecting.

Hopefully no real trouble with protestors and law enforcement.

TomOnBoard · 04-07-2020 1:46am

StringerBell wrote: »

I assume they will get the 7500 in attendance that they are expecting.

Hopefully no real trouble with protestors and law enforcement.

The rightful owners have told those people to stay away. The 7,500 inside and the 3,500 outside are taking part in a White Supremacist rally led by Trump, against the express wishes of the legal owners. Surely those owners have rights! They are not protestors... They are legal owners expressing their right to have their lands, and ownership interests respected by the Government of the United States. The White Supremacists have gone there to trample on their rights and disrespect their heritage.

Shameful bully-boy tactics!

Itssoeasy · 04-07-2020 2:20am

TomOnBoard wrote: »

The rightful owners have told those people to stay away. The 7,500 inside and the 3,500 outside are taking part in a White Supremacist rally led by Trump, against the express wishes of the legal owners. Surely those owners have rights! They are not protestors... They are legal owners expressing their right to have their lands, and ownership interests respected by the Government of the United States. The White Supremacists have gone there to trample on their rights and disrespect their heritage.

Shameful bully-boy tactics!

Well the governor of the state threatened to arrest the rightful owners of the land. The Native American tribe is the Sioux nation.

I think most posters here are decent people and they dont want anybody to get covid-19, but myself personally can't stop stupidity. If you go and ignore the public health measures in place to protect you from the virus then that's on them.

TomOnBoard · 04-07-2020 6:08am

When it rains it pours for Donnie....

- Junior's GF (or whatever) has tested + for Covid-19...
- Donnie's niece 's book is publishing away, as the Court rejected his Brother's attempt at prior restraint of the Publisher's distribution of the book..
- The campaign is tanking as he heads into the holiday weekend...

And the weekend is still young!!!

StringerBell · 04-07-2020 8:57am

I think that speech from Mt Rushmore will do him more harm than good in the polls.

Obviously you'd expect nothing of him but to double down and only attempt to appeal to his base but this disconnect with what's actually happening all over the country and the projection of an alternative reality and the continued, for months at this stage, insistence that the virus will simply disappear is going to kill him with everyone outside of the cult following. Not to mention referring to traitors to the nation as his heroes.

It has happened before in the US and I don't see anything to say it won't happen again. When the public feel you have no understanding of their plight it is pretty hard for them to identify with you.

That the US government paid no attention to the rights of the Natives Americans should also come as no surprise to anybody.

Leroy42 · 04-07-2020 9:09am

I'm not sure that it will. People know exactly what Trump is at the moment. One either looks to change it or accepts it. There is nothing more he needs to do to prove how unsuitable he is for the job.

So anyone still saying they support him is doing so despite all that has happened. If there was any doubt going into 2020, his catastrophic response to Covid-19 and then his total inaction over the Russia bounty story should be more than enough for any person to have given up entirely on him.

So any speech he gives, and lets to honest here is is an almost uniquely awful public speaker, is going to little for either camp. Even if he knocked it out of the park, as many have stated about Obama nice speeches does not a POTUS make. His deeds, or in the case of C19 total lack of them, is there for all to see.

As for the plight of the Native Americans, the majority of people in the US don't care.

StringerBell · 04-07-2020 9:34am

It's not either camp that matters though, it's the seemingly ever shrinking votes that are still up for grabs, he is incapable apparently of figuring out how to bring them into his tent.

That's what I mean when I say do more harm than good in the polls, outside of the cultists.

Cody montana · 04-07-2020 9:42am

"We only kneel to Almighty God," Trump remarked, in a clear shot at athletes who kneel in protest during the national anthem. "We will not be intimidated by bad, evil people. It will not happen."

Talk about pandering to his base!

Itssoeasy · 04-07-2020 9:55am

Cody montana wrote: »

"We only kneel to Almighty God," Trump remarked, in a clear shot at athletes who kneel in protest during the national anthem. "We will not be intimidated by bad, evil people. It will not happen."

Talk about pandering to his base!

I've not looked up what trump said in his speech but your quote shows it wasn't a transformative speech where trump did a 180.

Also, Kimberly guilfoyle who is his sons girlfriend who's tested positive for coronavirus, the trump supporters seem to think it's either fake news or it's a false positive.

StringerBell · 04-07-2020 10:02am

Why did she have to bail out of the trip in that rabbit hole? Deep state conspiracy? Some kind of 4d chess move to stick it to the libs?

Itssoeasy · 04-07-2020 10:54am

StringerBell wrote: »

Why did she have to bail out of the trip in that rabbit hole? Deep state conspiracy? Some kind of 4d chess move to stick it to the libs?

They don’t get that deep stringer. It just seems to be that the reality isn’t real for lack of a better description.

Water John · 04-07-2020 11:17am

The Native Americans are people of colour too. The Washington Redskins are going to change their name.

pixelburp · 04-07-2020 11:58am

Water John wrote: »

The Native Americans are people of colour too. The Washington Redskins are going to change their name.

Huh. I guess that hadn't happened, cos weren't they in hot water a few years back for their name? Or is this something that rolls around every X years, and they just ride it out.

The Rushmore decision to snub the Sioux is not even remotely surprising. Stats on the native American people make for sobering, heartbreaking reading.

Igotadose · 04-07-2020 12:50pm

Water John wrote: »

The Native Americans are people of colour too. The Washington Redskins are going to change their name.

I'd actually say it's at best 50:50 the Redskins change their name. It's not the first time this issue's come up with them and they always make noise and wait for the fuss to blow over. This time, FedEx who sponsors their stadium has said to change it, which might help.

Cleveland Indians baseball team also 'reviewing' their name.

Penn · 04-07-2020 1:27pm

Igotadose wrote: »

I'd actually say it's at best 50:50 the Redskins change their name. It's not the first time this issue's come up with them and they always make noise and wait for the fuss to blow over. This time, FedEx who sponsors their stadium has said to change it, which might help.

Cleveland Indians baseball team also 'reviewing' their name.

I think Nike had some influence on the decision this time too.

Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

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