Need some advice on my son

Treppen · 28-05-2020 2:02pm

NSAman wrote: »

We had a family business. it was expected that during your time away from School you worked. I started working at 8. I started a small business at 10. I see no harm in it personally. It wasn’t that we were down a coal mine at the hard face, you worked to support yourself, learn that money does not come free and it also instilled a great work ethic in me, that continues today.

I know not all parents think that kids working is fine. That is their choice.

As long as the kid is safe, under supervision properly and not placed in any dangerous situations, I see no harm.

Many kids (even older than 14) do not want to work and expect to have their free time to themselves while mum and dad pay for it... that is for the parents to sort out with the kids.

For me personally, my lads started working with me young. It does give people an advantage later in life (IMHO) as they are able to deal with people, socialise and also know what money is and how to acquire it through work. They also learn that nothing in this life is free.

Yes there were times that “but...but.... dad.... my friends are going and I want to go!”... I am not a hard ass.. and negotiation skills are learned early.

That's all fine and I don't think many would disagree with it. I think it's the way it came about.
School finishes today.
Your getting a job.
No I'm not.
Takes Xbox.
Impasse.

As you said negotiation skills are learned early, and I suspect this was not carefully 'negotiated' from the outset.

oyvey · 28-05-2020 2:07pm

He's 14, plenty of time to work when he's older. But since you don't hold that view...

Noddy Nangle wrote: »

... Anyways the other day I managed to get him a job for a couple of days a week with a friend of mine so that he can begin to learn life skills and develop a work ethic. When I told him first he told me that he wasn’t doing it and gradually over the past few days this has become a real issue and yesterday I took his xbox and phone from him, his reaction was to go mental and we haven’t really spoken to him since....

Here's where you F'ed up. You didn't speak to him about it before you told him he was doing it. The expectation from his point of view was a summer free to do whatever he wants. Now you've pulled the rug on that. You can't treat him like a child and expect a mature adult reaction.

beauf · 28-05-2020 2:12pm

GarIT wrote: »

We're not going to agree on the first part. I think advances in our society over the last 30 years should allow for children to have easier childhoods.

Well they don't because they dealing with social media and addiction to gaming and screen time.

GarIT wrote: »

I'd say taking away someone entertainment and social interaction when they are stuck at home to get them to do something illegal is closer to bullying than parenting.

Certainly a bad idea. Moderation in all things.

GarIT wrote: »

I assume you have heard actions speak louder than words, OP can say they are doing it because of love if they want to but it doesn't mean they are doing the right thing just because they said they are.

You said learning to program or learning a language wouldn't have the same discipline benefits of working, so that was my take on it that you don't see them as real jobs.

I do have an aversion to physical work, and I don't think that's necessarily harmful. In modern times it's not really harmful for the child either he is doing well in sports, so likely fit, and doing well in school so won't have to do manual labour if they don't want to.

This has got nothing to do with manual work. Might be an office job. Its the life skills you get from working, most likely with others.

They shouldn't be forced into it. But some kids (not all) are addicted to screen and never got off them. That is bad.

No ones going to agree. Personal bias comes into it.

c.p.w.g.w · 28-05-2020 2:17pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

He might also get a bad name if he acts up on this job because he doesn’t want to be there.

That's an even better life lesson as far as I'm concerned

Wanderer19 · 28-05-2020 2:22pm

Flickerfusion wrote: »

This is term time. He should be working on school remotely.

We are *not* in school holiday season yet. It’s May!

School finishes at the end of May at second level. Do as of tomorrow your comment is out of faye.. Because of the pandemic he's probably only doing a couple of hours a day, if that. He may as well be working.

Having a job gives skills that can't be bought, better he learns them now, and has a few Bob in his pocket.

If I could get my son a job for the summer I'd be delighted.

freshpopcorn · 28-05-2020 2:24pm

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

That's an even better life lesson as far as I'm concerned

That’s a very mature thing. To allow your fourteen year old who is going through puberty make a mess of things that could cause him hassle for years. So you can prove a point!

noodler · 28-05-2020 2:29pm

I'm torn here. I think fiver an hour for a 14 year old is grand tbh. I also don't hold too much away with the "you didn't consult him" points.

I don't think I had my first job til I was more 14/15 - albeit I think I was warned I needed spending money for the Gaeltacht. I don't really hold much sway in the "he might get covid" or "he's worried about covid" points either.

14 is maybe, though, a year too young. Maybe.

That being said. He's just had two months doing nothing (harsh?) And looking down the barrell of three months more so these are strange times.

I feel for ya OP. He will be working for the rest of his life etc but you'd expect a part time summer job to come onto the agenda at 15/16 anyway.

Two days a week doing this would be very good for him I think.

Mitch Connor · 28-05-2020 2:30pm

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

No, you are wrong. There is nothing whatsoever wrong in it, despite how times change.

The kid isn't being bullied either. That's your emotive way of putting your point across, but it's totally at odds with the OP's own words...

How about listening to what people say, rather than imposing your irrationality ?

Who said that ? Who said that the benefits of this are only in the hard labour aspect of it ? I didn't anyway.

Most of us move on.

and my back doesn't hurt but sure I should give it all up because it's not a proper job with discipline.[/quote]

Your aversion to physical work is clouding your perception. It isn't centrally about manual work, and no-one here is asking you to do anything. Are they ?

Your aversion, again.[/QUOTE]

THe parent has decided the kid needs a job and going by OP there was no initial discussion. Just a statement that you are doing this job.

You don't need to raise your voice to be a bully. Refusing all discussion, emotional manipulation and then cutting off outside contact with their friends - all so the parent gets their own way, no discussion.

Mitch Connor · 28-05-2020 2:36pm

OP should have encouraged a job, imo.

Xbox costs money, games, phone cost money etc.

Could have told the kid you will only support X value (less than now) and will not be buying games etc (outside of gifts)

I got a job around then, maybe earlier, because there was stuff I wanted and couldn't expect my parents to buy it for me all the time. my first job wasn't because I was told to turn up and work for cheap 'because I love you'.

Lefty Bicek · 28-05-2020 2:36pm

GarIT wrote: »

You said learning to program or learning a language wouldn't have the same discipline benefits of working, so that was my take on it that you don't see them as real jobs.

No, that is not the point I was making at all and I think there is a bit of reverse snobbery inyour assumption there.

Just because I can stone and pipe a drainage system or wire a house doesn't mean I can't do more cerebral things like learn a foreign language, or get a degree from a world-renowned university.

Actually I have done those things, and plenty more.

I said...

discipline of employment (as opposed to work).

From my own experiences and observations over the years, I see them as two very separate things.

I work just as hard at my hobbies and interests as at my job. That is my way, and I have no patience with messers or people not dedicated to something.

Employment requires my dedication as well, but on someone else's time, not my own, and on their terms, not mine.

That is a big, big difference. It's a skill worth having.

oyvey · 28-05-2020 2:50pm

noodler wrote: »

I'm torn here. I think fiver an hour for a 14 year old is grand tbh. I also don't hold too much away with the "you didn't consult him" points...

Out of interest, why don't you think the "you didn't consult him" points matter?

Lefty Bicek · 28-05-2020 2:55pm

14.

That awkward age where -

- you're not old enough to go out and do bit of work for a few quid.
- you're just old enough that having the Xbox confiscated is child abuse.
- you're too old that your parent can actually parent without your consultation.

challengemaster · 28-05-2020 2:57pm

noodler wrote: »

I'm torn here. I think fiver an hour for a 14 year old is grand tbh.

In what way does a persons age have a reflection on the amount they get paid?

Anyone under 18 is entitled to €7.07/hour. That means he should be getting paid €113.12 for his 16 hours. Anything less is giving him a very early message that "it's alright for other people to break the law in a workplace".

There's already too many people in the world getting exploited by shítty employers. You don't need your parent & their friend doing it to you when you're 14 too.

McHardcore · 28-05-2020 2:59pm

Id leave the lad the xbox if he is playing it online.
They are using xbopx live to keep in touch with friends which is their way to socialise.

Mitch Connor · 28-05-2020 2:59pm

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

14.

That awkward age where -

- you're not old enough to go out and do bit of work for a few quid.
- you're just old enough that having the Xbox confiscated is child abuse.
- you're too old that your parent can actually parent without your consultation.

At the same time:

- You are old enough to work.
- Not old enough to work for a legal wage.
- Not old enough to have any input on the work you do.
- Not old enough to be worthy of a discussion.

GreeBo · 28-05-2020 3:01pm

I think perhaps you should have had the conversation before getting him a job and expecting him to love the idea of working during summer.

FionnK86 · 28-05-2020 3:05pm

OP give him back his Xbox. I vowed I'd never play video games again when I was working mad hours at my job but now that im working from home it really drives me away from boredom.

If you think he's old enough to have a job, then he's old enough to have an xbox and have control of it. The phone too, phone will be needed for job more than likely.

I hope he gets on well with the job, i'd my first around that age and it really made me the man I am today. Fair play to you getting him a job, good example of parenting. But you need to follow up now with the hard part of letting him spread his wings.

NSAman · 28-05-2020 3:12pm

Treppen wrote: »

That's all fine and I don't think many would disagree with it. I think it's the way it came about.
School finishes today.
Your getting a job.
No I'm not.
Takes Xbox.
Impasse.

As you said negotiation skills are learned early, and I suspect this was not carefully 'negotiated' from the outset.

Agreed.

Hence, a talk, sit down, explain and negotiate. Dad did the wrong thing here.

I am very sure the young lad in question, wouldn't mind getting out of the house and getting paid for it. Let's be fair, most of us at that age were very shy and unsure about ourselves.

It is something that many young people want, yet there are many young people who just want to play games with online friends. There has to be a balance.

Dad has to admit that he went around this the wrong way, but I admire him for getting junior a job. Junior has to be made to understand that this is for him to grow and earn a living for himself.

80 euro a week for a 14 year old is not bad for two days work.

A little more incentive from Dad, e.g. you finish and do a good job then we can do something together, we can see if we can get "X" that you wanted.... might just solve the issue.

Wanderer19 · 28-05-2020 3:14pm

challengemaster wrote: »

In what way does a persons age have a reflection on the amount they get paid?

Anyone under 18 is entitled to €7.07/hour. That means he should be getting paid €113.12 for his 16 hours. Anything less is giving him a very early message that "it's alright for other people to break the law in a workplace".

There's already too many people in the world getting exploited by shítty employers. You don't need your parent & their friend doing it to you when you're 14 too.

Entitlement and worth are 2 different things (other posters mentioned worth).

He may be 'entitled' to minimum wage, but without experience whose to say he can do the job asked, or will be punctual, respectful etc.?

The op, suggested €5 as a starting point for his son, and then for his son to get a raise.

My 15 yo knows what the minimum wage is, but would be happy to work for less, if he could find work.

I've seen experienced adults being treated in much worse ways.

Noddy Nangle · 28-05-2020 3:15pm

UPDATE - Many thanks for all of the advice and it’s much appreciated. Just to clarify a few things that came up in the comments.

1) I had spoken with him throughout this year to coax him to get a little job for himself and be independent but was always met with a “no”. Therefore I pushed on and asked my friend (who is the child’s godfather) to help me out. I told him would he let him do two days a week and I suggested to give €40 per day. Just to compare when I first started working at 14 I was paid £40 per week for five full days. My friend cares for the welfare of my son and would look after him whilst helping to introduce him to doing some light work.
2) The job doesn’t involve meeting the public and would be mainly working outdoors or in a warehouse with no machinery involved. The job is located about 500 metres from our house along a back road so he could walk or cycle to work and even come home for lunch if he wanted.
3) To those that think I am bullying him then I just want to say that you are wrong. I am trying to prepare him for adulthood. This has nothing to do with either the work or the money. He will still have plenty of time to enjoy his friends and his summer.

I am also conscious that we are living in strange times and I don’t want him to be cut off from his friends so at lunchtime I told him that I am proud of him as a son and he has made me proud many times as he grew up. But I told him that myself and his Mam were very disappointed in him for refusing to take the job. I said that he can have either the phone or his Xbox back but only one and he has to tell me which one, but whatever one he doesn’t pick with not be given back to him. If he changes his mind on the job then he can have both. I think it’s the best I can do.

challengemaster · 28-05-2020 3:19pm

Wanderer19 wrote: »

Entitlement and worth are 2 different things (other posters mentioned worth).

He may be 'entitled' to minimum wage, but without experience whose to say he can do the job asked, or will be punctual, respectful etc.?

What the fúck does that have to do with anything? Who's to say anyone hired for any job can actually do it, or will be punctual or respectful? They're still entitled to the minimum wage - that's the law. It's not conditional.

tayto lover · 28-05-2020 3:19pm

OP your biggest mistake was not consulting with him first.
Springing the job thing on him after it had been arranged behind his back obviously upset him as it would have done me when I was his age.
Then you compounded the entire matter by confiscating his xbox.
Not very good moves imo.

GarIT · 28-05-2020 3:20pm

NSAman wrote: »

A little more incentive from Dad, e.g. you finish and do a good job then we can do something together, we can see if we can get "X" that you wanted.... might just solve the issue.

At 14 I would have seen doing something together with my dad as a punishment. In early puberty the last thing I and many of my friends wanted was to spend time with family.

challengemaster · 28-05-2020 3:26pm

Noddy Nangle wrote: »

1) I had spoken with him throughout this year to coax him to get a little job for himself and be independent but was always met with a “no”. Therefore I pushed on and asked my friend (who is the child’s godfather) to help me out. I told him would he let him do two days a week and I suggested to give €40 per day. Just to compare when I first started working at 14 I was paid £40 per week for five full days. My friend cares for the welfare of my son and would look after him whilst helping to introduce him to doing some light work.
2) The job doesn’t involve meeting the public and would be mainly working outdoors or in a warehouse with no machinery involved. The job is located about 500 metres from our house along a back road so he could walk or cycle to work and even come home for lunch if he wanted.
3) To those that think I am bullying him then I just want to say that you are wrong. I am trying to prepare him for adulthood. This has nothing to do with either the work or the money. He will still have plenty of time to enjoy his friends and his summer.

I am also conscious that we are living in strange times and I don’t want him to be cut off from his friends so at lunchtime I told him that I am proud of him as a son and he has made me proud many times as he grew up. But I told him that myself and his Mam were very disappointed in him for refusing to take the job. I said that he can have either the phone or his Xbox back but only one and he has to tell me which one, but whatever one he doesn’t pick with not be given back to him. If he changes his mind on the job then he can have both. I think it’s the best I can do.

So you're "trying to prepare him for adulthood" by making decisions for him and forcing him to do things he has no control over, and punishing him for making a decision for himself. The fúcking irony.

What you did or didn't do when you were 14 is irrelevant. It also used to be alright for teachers to beat kids in schools, or for employers to throw shoes at people or other such nonsense. Times change.

You absolutely are bullying him into doing what you want, and either you're ignorant of that fact or you're so biased you cannot see it yourself. I'd say he's fair disappointed in you too.

NSAman · 28-05-2020 3:26pm

GarIT wrote: »

At 14 I would have seen doing something together with my dad as a punishment. In early puberty the last thing I and many of my friends wanted was to spend time with family.

People differ....;)

GarIT · 28-05-2020 3:29pm

Noddy Nangle wrote: »

UPDATE - Many thanks for all of the advice and it’s much appreciated. Just to clarify a few things that came up in the comments.

1) I had spoken with him throughout this year to coax him to get a little job for himself and be independent but was always met with a “no”. Therefore I pushed on and asked my friend (who is the child’s godfather) to help me out. I told him would he let him do two days a week and I suggested to give €40 per day. Just to compare when I first started working at 14 I was paid £40 per week for five full days. My friend cares for the welfare of my son and would look after him whilst helping to introduce him to doing some light work.
2) The job doesn’t involve meeting the public and would be mainly working outdoors or in a warehouse with no machinery involved. The job is located about 500 metres from our house along a back road so he could walk or cycle to work and even come home for lunch if he wanted.
3) To those that think I am bullying him then I just want to say that you are wrong. I am trying to prepare him for adulthood. This has nothing to do with either the work or the money. He will still have plenty of time to enjoy his friends and his summer.

I am also conscious that we are living in strange times and I don’t want him to be cut off from his friends so at lunchtime I told him that I am proud of him as a son and he has made me proud many times as he grew up. But I told him that myself and his Mam were very disappointed in him for refusing to take the job. I said that he can have either the phone or his Xbox back but only one and he has to tell me which one, but whatever one he doesn’t pick with not be given back to him. If he changes his mind on the job then he can have both. I think it’s the best I can do.

I think you are completely wrong. He doens't need to be prepared for adulthood almost 10 years in adcance at only 14. And demanding he break the law isn't any sort of good preparation for adulthood.

noodler · 28-05-2020 3:29pm

oyvey wrote: »

Out of interest, why don't you think the "you didn't consult him" points matter?

The OP consulted him constantly. I don't agree the 14 year old should have final say.

Many kids need a push.

challengemaster wrote: »

In what way does a persons age have a reflection on the amount they get paid?

Anyone under 18 is entitled to €7.07/hour. That means he should be getting paid €113.12 for his 16 hours. Anything less is giving him a very early message that "it's alright for other people to break the law in a workplace".

There's already too many people in the world getting exploited by shítty employers. You don't need your parent & their friend doing it to you when you're 14 too.

Jesus.

Relax on the workers rights for a boy who has just turned 14.

I hardly think his godfather is out to exploit him either he'll probably get an easier time of it if anything. And it'll probably be a while before he is actually more of a help than a hindrance.

noodler · 28-05-2020 3:31pm

challengemaster wrote: »

So you're "trying to prepare him for adulthood" by making decisions for him and forcing him to do things he has no control over, and punishing him for making a decision for himself. The fúcking irony.

What you did or didn't do when you were 14 is irrelevant. It also used to be alright for teachers to beat kids in schools, or for employers to throw shoes at people or other such nonsense. Times change.

You absolutely are bullying him into doing what you want, and either you're ignorant of that fact or you're so biased you cannot see it yourself. I'd say he's fair disappointed in you too.

I would ignore this OP.

Very iffy basis for such judgemental posting.

GarIT · 28-05-2020 3:31pm

noodler wrote: »

The OP consulted him constantly. I don't agree the 14 year old should have final say.

Many kids need a push.

Jesus.

Relax on the workers rights for a boy who has just turned 14.

I hardly think his godfather is out to exploit him either he'll probably get an easier time of it if anything. And it'll probably be a while before he is actually more of a help than a hindrance.

Would you not think the opposite, that children need to be the most protected by workers rights? You argument is the same argument as it's ok to beat a child but once they are 18 it's illegal. There is no minimum age for rights to kick in.

This has come up before in the thread, actions are different from words. Not intending to exploit someone isn't an excuse for exploiting them.

And you know what you pay someone who is learning a job? Minimum wage, if they are experienced they can argue for more. The minimum wage isn't the minimum for qualified people only.

GarIT · 28-05-2020 3:31pm

noodler wrote: »

I would ignore this OP.

Very iffy basis for such judgemental posting.

Ignore this op. Iffy judgement of basis for posting

tayto lover · 28-05-2020 3:44pm

noodler wrote: »

The OP consulted him constantly. I don't agree the 14 year old should have final say.

Many kids need a push..

The OP didn’t consult with his son until the job was arranged.
Bad move that.

oyvey · 28-05-2020 3:49pm

noodler wrote: »

The OP consulted him constantly. I don't agree the 14 year old should have final say.

Many kids need a push.

Well me know now that the OP consulted him now that they've explained that.

But in general, consulting a child before a decision is made isn't the same thing as giving them the final say.

GarIT · 28-05-2020 3:53pm

tayto lover wrote: »

The OP didn’t consult with his son until the job was arranged.
Bad move that.

I think there is a bit of confusion. In the original post the OP said he didn't talk to his son about getting him this job until he told him "you're working now out you go." but later said he had talked to his son about the son getting a job.

tscul32 · 28-05-2020 3:54pm

I have a 14yo son myself and I think the job is a great idea, would love it for my son. He's not a sociable lad so being stuck at home is a dream come true. He has friends from school and they all hang out online. He has chores to do which he hates and moans his way through. However since we've never been the parents who buy their kids whatever they want, he would love the opportunity.
As for workers' rights - it sounds like his godfather doesn't need an employee but has a few things your son could help with and he'll throw him a few euro for it. I'm sure he'll be well taken care of too. My lad was helping his granny last summer, she had jobs that needed doing, power washing, painting, etc. and he did them happily knowing she'd give him some money and he was saving for a gaming computer. He did similar for my aunt. But an hours work took him 3 hours and he'd have soft drinks and chocolate biscuits, crisps, etc. all provided for him. My aunt even used to go to the shop to get him a chicken fillet roll for his lunch - super spoiled. My parents are hoping to have him over later in the summer to help his grandad with painting and gardening. He won't get minimum wage but none of us will care. He'll be delighted with what he gets and he won't moan his way through it. He'll be praised and pampered instead. And it will be so good for him to earn his own pc.

oyvey · 28-05-2020 3:55pm

Noddy Nangle wrote: »

UPDATE - Many thanks for all of the advice and it’s much appreciated. Just to clarify a few things that came up in the comments.

1) I had spoken with him throughout this year to coax him to get a little job for himself and be independent but was always met with a “no”. Therefore I pushed on and asked my friend (who is the child’s godfather) to help me out. I told him would he let him do two days a week and I suggested to give €40 per day. Just to compare when I first started working at 14 I was paid £40 per week for five full days. My friend cares for the welfare of my son and would look after him whilst helping to introduce him to doing some light work.
2) The job doesn’t involve meeting the public and would be mainly working outdoors or in a warehouse with no machinery involved. The job is located about 500 metres from our house along a back road so he could walk or cycle to work and even come home for lunch if he wanted.
3) To those that think I am bullying him then I just want to say that you are wrong. I am trying to prepare him for adulthood. This has nothing to do with either the work or the money. He will still have plenty of time to enjoy his friends and his summer.

I am also conscious that we are living in strange times and I don’t want him to be cut off from his friends so at lunchtime I told him that I am proud of him as a son and he has made me proud many times as he grew up. But I told him that myself and his Mam were very disappointed in him for refusing to take the job. I said that he can have either the phone or his Xbox back but only one and he has to tell me which one, but whatever one he doesn’t pick with not be given back to him. If he changes his mind on the job then he can have both. I think it’s the best I can do.

Side note: Based on your previous posts I really thought you were the mam. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

beauf · 28-05-2020 4:07pm

GarIT wrote: »

I think you are completely wrong. He doens't need to be prepared for adulthood almost 10 years in adcance at only 14. And demanding he break the law isn't any sort of good preparation for adulthood.

What law are you referring to.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/children_s_rights_and_policy/children_and_rights_in_ireland.html

challengemaster · 28-05-2020 4:12pm

tscul32 wrote: »

He won't get minimum wage but none of us will care. He'll be delighted with what he gets and he won't moan his way through it. He'll be praised and pampered instead. And it will be so good for him to earn his own pc.

You're not entitled to minimum wage if you're working for close relatives. That's one of the exemptions.

beauf wrote: »

What law are you referring to.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/children_s_rights_and_policy/children_and_rights_in_ireland.html

The one on minimum wage.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/pay_and_employment/pay_inc_min_wage.html

Stepping Stone · 28-05-2020 4:13pm

OP, I looked at your posting history and I was very struck by one three years ago that you wrote about having anxiety and just not progressing at work for 20yrs.

Surely as someone who suffers from anxiety you should know that someone else taking complete control of your life is a really, really bad thing. Taking away your only connections to the outside world, especially during a time when everything has changed and you’re isolated is a really bad move. It seems that you working at 14 didn’t have a positive impact on your life.

You have spoken to your son about this for a year and been told no. You didn’t listen and ploughed on anyway. You clearly do not understand what the word no means. This didn’t come out of nowhere. He’s told you time and again that the answer is no. Is your wife disappointed in him or are you just putting words in his mouth?

Essentially OP, you didn’t listen repeatedly to the word no. Now that you’ve made plans for him without his consent, and again been told no, you’ve decided that he deserves to be cut off entirely from the outside world. What lessons exactly do you think that you’re teaching him? That you don’t listen regardless? That adults can do whatever they want? That being a bully is the best way forward?

You apparently suffer from anxiety and didn’t progress in your career. Think that it might be because you have poor communication, comprehension and social skills? He’s doing well at school and sport. He’s clearly not lazy. There’s something very wrong about the whole situation and that’s you and your approach.

I started working at 16. My dad tried to pull the same crap with me. My mother put a stop to it rapidly by pointing out what a roaring success his young life was and how I was going to live a better life. I have never been unemployed since I was sixteen. I’m in my late 30s now. I have a good degree, masters and a very good job. I have an excellent work ethic. Not because my father booted me out to work when he wanted to, but because I was raised by two hardworking parents. I was raised with the idea that you work hard at everything and that you did your absolute best at everything from scrubbing toilets to exams. It’s paid off for me. When I was ready to work, I worked. I wouldn’t have been mature enough at 14 or 15 for it.

In your case, does your son see two hardworking parents achieving their best in every situation? If he does, I doubt that he’ll be any different. Perhaps he knows his own value and mind and knows what’s best for him.

You will reap what you sow with this. If you bully him into doing what you want, not what he wants, he’ll learn that that’s the best way to behave towards family. Hopefully you never have to rely on him to have your best interests at heart after this.

FionnK86 · 28-05-2020 4:17pm

Noddy Nangle wrote: »

UPDATE - Many thanks for all of the advice and it’s much appreciated. Just to clarify a few things that came up in the comments.

1) I had spoken with him throughout this year to coax him to get a little job for himself and be independent but was always met with a “no”. Therefore I pushed on and asked my friend (who is the child’s godfather) to help me out. I told him would he let him do two days a week and I suggested to give €40 per day. Just to compare when I first started working at 14 I was paid £40 per week for five full days. My friend cares for the welfare of my son and would look after him whilst helping to introduce him to doing some light work.
2) The job doesn’t involve meeting the public and would be mainly working outdoors or in a warehouse with no machinery involved. The job is located about 500 metres from our house along a back road so he could walk or cycle to work and even come home for lunch if he wanted.
3) To those that think I am bullying him then I just want to say that you are wrong. I am trying to prepare him for adulthood. This has nothing to do with either the work or the money. He will still have plenty of time to enjoy his friends and his summer.

I am also conscious that we are living in strange times and I don’t want him to be cut off from his friends so at lunchtime I told him that I am proud of him as a son and he has made me proud many times as he grew up. But I told him that myself and his Mam were very disappointed in him for refusing to take the job. I said that he can have either the phone or his Xbox back but only one and he has to tell me which one, but whatever one he doesn’t pick with not be given back to him. If he changes his mind on the job then he can have both. I think it’s the best I can do.

Thanks for update, good idea splitting up the phone/xbox.

I hope it works out for both of you. Being a teenage is sh!te sometimes, getting used to responsibility especially in Coronaland. If he does take the job, he'll be above a lot of others in this country.

FAILSAFE 00 · 28-05-2020 4:30pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

FAILSAFE, you know nothing about this child.

Lol, I was one. With a games console also.

The child isnt going to be making handbags in a sweat shop. It's a great experience. One he will be thankful for.

Right now I am sure he thinks he is being sent to the gulag to dig trenches but a happy chap will emerge.

beauf · 28-05-2020 4:30pm

Stepping Stone wrote: »

OP, I looked at your posting history and I was very struck by one three years ago that you wrote about having anxiety and just not progressing at work for 20yrs.

Surely as someone who suffers from anxiety ....

... Hopefully you never have to rely on him to have your best interests at heart after this.

I've never thought character assassination works well as a method of giving advice..

Stepping Stone · 28-05-2020 4:34pm

beauf wrote: »

I've never though character assassination works well as a method of giving advice..

It’s not character assassination. It’s food for thought. He wants for his son what he had, but is what he had and has actually something that he should want for his son?

It seems to me that he’s not listening to his son or taking into account that his son already has a good work ethic. He should think long and hard about his motivations and actions.

noodler · 28-05-2020 4:40pm

beauf wrote: »

I've never thought character assassination works well as a method of giving advice..

It's disgraceful tbh.

Going through a poster's history to look for mental health issues just so he/she will come around to your way of thinking is very poor form.

beauf · 28-05-2020 4:41pm

Stepping Stone wrote: »

It’s not character assassination. It’s food for thought. He wants for his son what he had, but is what he had and has actually something that he should want for his son?

It seems to me that he’s not listening to his son or taking into account that his son already has a good work ethic. He should think long and hard about his motivations and actions.

You could make that point without trawling someones past history.

School work and Sports doesn't prepare people for work.

If it did people wouldn't do work placements, and people wouldn't look for work experience desperately on CV

GarIT · 28-05-2020 4:42pm

beauf wrote: »

What law are you referring to.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/children_s_rights_and_policy/children_and_rights_in_ireland.html

Minimum wage.

Paid holidays, although maybe he is gettng those.

Maximum working hours for an under 16 year old is 7 in a day during the Summer while OPs son is doing 8.

Registering your employment with Revenue, which can't be happening if he is being paid less than minimum wage.

beauf · 28-05-2020 4:44pm

challengemaster wrote: »

You're not entitled to minimum wage if you're working for close relatives. That's one of the exemptions.

The one on minimum wage.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/pay_and_employment/pay_inc_min_wage.html

I'm unclear. Are they breaking the law or not. I'm too tired to go back through all that again.

28-05-2020 4:46pm

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Lol, I was one. With a games console also.

The child isnt going to be making handbags in a sweat shop. It's a great experience. One he will be thankful for.

Right now I am sure he thinks he is being sent to the gulag to dig trenches but a happy chap will emerge.

What you're saying is that all 14 year olds are identical - you were a lazy sh*t at 14, ergo all 14 year olds are lazy....? :rolleyes:

GarIT · 28-05-2020 4:46pm

beauf wrote: »

You could make that point without trawling someones past history.

School work and Sports doesn't prepare people for work.

If it did people wouldn't do work placements, and people wouldn't look for work experience desperately on CV

People don't look for work experience in a warehouse.

GarIT · 28-05-2020 4:47pm

beauf wrote: »

I'm unclear. Are they breaking the law or not. I'm too tired to go back through all that again.

Godparents have little to no standing in law, they wouldn't count as a direct family member so yes breaking the law.

beauf · 28-05-2020 4:49pm

GarIT wrote: »

Minimum wage.

Maximum working hours for an under 16 year old is 7 in a day during the Summer while OPs son is doing 8.

Registering your employment with Revenue, which can't be happening if he is being paid less than minimum wage.

While I'm all for doing things right, especially with tax and Prsi going forward, and people undervalue the value of family working for them. When they should pay them more. But I think there is case of winning the battle and losing the war here.

Need some advice on my son

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