Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

y0ssar1an22 · 10-06-2023 2:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120696937#Comment_120696937

a president has never been indicted before for this so this has never been tested before.

the president has the right to declassify documents, whatever they see fit while president.

the question of law will come down to....can he do it on a whim?

the traditions of what a president usually does wont matter.

will be interesting to see how it plays out.

interlocked · 10-06-2023 3:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120696967#Comment_120696967

If Obama or Biden had left classified nuclear files in their spare bathroom or on their ballroom stage, and denied their existence, I doubt that you'd be stroking your chin and pondering theoretical constitutional ramifications. Crawl away and stop embarrassing yourself even further.

amandstu · 10-06-2023 3:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120696950#Comment_120696950

Putting people above the law is very close to having a king or despot ,isn't it?

Seems to be fine with his supporters.Pence one mouthed "no one is above the law" but then wished that this wouldn't go to trial.

Others suggest he should be charged with treason but I remember that was discussed earlier in Trump's "career" and not very conclusively then.

Ahwell · 10-06-2023 3:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120696967#Comment_120696967

It is not relevant to the Espionage Act, which criminalizes the unauthorized possession of national defense information whether it's classified or not. Documents he possessed included "information regarding defense and weapons capabilities of both the United States and foreign countries; United States nuclear programs; potential vulnerabilities of the United States and its allies to military attack, and plans for possible retaliation in response to a foreign attack."

It's also not relevant to the counts of obstruction of justice that he has been charged with.

pixelburp · 10-06-2023 6:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120696853#Comment_120696853

You'd have to imagine there have been a lot of crisis meetings and serious revisions of protocols within the nuclear programme since Trump's little collection was discovered. If there were seriously compromising aspects they couldn't possibly be allowed to continue. So there might be a ticking clock on how long that info stayed relevant - assuming the "wrong" eyes got to see them. Which knowing Trump is a very likely, believable scenario (let's all remember the meeting with Russia's bigwigs back in the day)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120696967#Comment_120696967

"On a whim" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there to try and hand wave away what happened.

Nody · 10-06-2023 9:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120696923#Comment_120696923

Unlikely because even Trump's lawyers don't make the case that he can think that something is declassified and that somehow makes it true (as seen by Trump keeping spouting that as a fact but his lawyers refuse to put it as part of his defence with the court). A declassified document has a clear process it has to go through including the stamping of the document showing it's now declassified and when it was declassified.

PropJoe10 · 10-06-2023 10:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694483#Comment_120694483

I completely disagree with you. What you're saying there is that once someone is elected president, they should be immune from criminal prosecution. Nobody should enjoy that sort of privilege. The office of president is not like a monarchy in the 1700s.

What would be to stop this person from committing a murder or something then? Or where do you draw the line into which crimes should be charged and which shouldn't? It's a ridiculous argument.

Trump was showing US defence secrets to people without security clearance, which jeopardises the security of both the US and other countries. Not charging him for that would be ludicrous.

BorneTobyWilde · 10-06-2023 3:04pm

Trump had 10's of boxes containing thousands upon thousands of documents, I'll never be convinced he knew what he had, and that he was planning to use what he had to take down the US from the inside, it's all nuts. He's just an idiot, he was told to hand back documents, someone gathered up what was relevant and handed them over, 15 boxes, and said that they are continuing to search for additional presidential records that belong to the National Archives, to hand over also, one they thought all was handed over they declared that by lawyer, of course there were more found after that point in the raid.

10s of boxes of documents, containing 13k plus of documents, needle in a haystack stuff, I'm sure after the raid there was a team of people working 24/7 searching for relevant documents, while Trump has a lazy lawyer have a quick look, so it's no surprise they found more.

Nody · 10-06-2023 3:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698147#Comment_120698147

Except for that minor part where Trump tells his assistant to specifically move those confidential documents from said boxes to make sure they would not be there when the laywer was checking the boxes for them. Or the times (note plural) he told other people he had those confidential documents and had not declassified them and showed them to other people. But yea, he totally made a mistake or something and forgot all about it, completly a human mistake or something...

salmocab · 10-06-2023 3:23pm

So it was all a lazy lawyers fault?

that seems like nonsense spouted in a bid to make this seem like less of an issue.

BorneTobyWilde · 10-06-2023 3:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698192#Comment_120698192

Timeline is key, when did he do that. Maybe it's a case of hiding them, rather than facing the wrath for having more after it was declared they were all handed over. Bottom line I'd never believe there was some master plan to take out the US by Trump by using info in documents he didn't know he had , all far fetched that he was in cahoots with China of Russian on where and how to hit the US, you can't charge someone with espionage, without knowing the meaning of the word .

Nody · 10-06-2023 4:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698208#Comment_120698208

You do know it's outlined in his indictment, right?

But yea, he was not aware of them being classified except he's caught on tape confirming it that they were classified (in July 2021 so well after he's left as president), with witnesses there and in the text messages he sent and recieved to move said documents does not of course in any way show that he was aware of the documents being classified...

relax carry on · 10-06-2023 4:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698208#Comment_120698208

And the 2 billion the Saudis gave Kushner just for the craic? Everything is just a coincidence. Poor Donald is such an idiot, he has no idea what's going on with all the classified material he just happened to take for no reason whatsoever. You've hot to feel sorry for poor Donald. Why do these things keep happening to such a poor innocent man.

https://www.newsweek.com/jared-kushner-theories-saudi-money-donald-trump-mole-fbi-raid-1733474

Christy42 · 10-06-2023 5:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698208#Comment_120698208

Oh I don't think Trump wants to take out the US. He has property there. He wanted them either to feel important or to use them to make money.

I doubt he knew every line on every document but he knew he shouldn't have them and therefore wanted them hidden.

Honestly what would it take at this point for you to believe that Trump intentionally committed a criminal act. He is on tape stating he knew it was wrong.

BorneTobyWilde · 10-06-2023 5:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698433#Comment_120698433

Showing'' and then it says '' don't get too close'' So he held a document in his hand basically. Clear to me in those two incidents no one saw anything, other than knowing the existence of classified documents, I mean we all know they exist.

PropJoe10 · 10-06-2023 6:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698147#Comment_120698147

Stupidity or ignorance are not excuses for committing crimes, especially for national security crimes.

Timberrrrrrrr · 10-06-2023 6:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698208#Comment_120698208

If this exchange is correct (and there's no reason to believe its not) then this alone is proof that not only did Trump know he had secret documents, he also knew he shouldn't have them, he knew he shouldn't show them to anyone and he openly admits that they hadn't been declassified,.

This alone should be enough to convince.

amandstu · 10-06-2023 6:31pm

Has anyone a comment on the appointment of Eileen Cannon on the case?

ancapailldorcha · 10-06-2023 6:35pm

It's clearly deliberate. Donald Trump is, like his British counterpart, a man who thought that consequences were just for other people. He knew full well what he was doing with those documents. The idea that one accidentally takes classified information from the most powerful country in history is laughably, pathetic and transparent.

Water John · 10-06-2023 7:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698808#Comment_120698808

She'll sit on the bench with her sister Aileen.

Ahwell · 10-06-2023 8:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120698808#Comment_120698808

She is expected to either to recuse herself or to be removed by the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals following a motion to do so being filed by the DOJ.

BorneTobyWilde · 10-06-2023 9:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120699382#Comment_120699382

Like they stopped her special master to look at seized documents, as to add some independency . DOJ is out of control. Now they want the judge out, so basically they're calling her corrupt.

Ahwell · 10-06-2023 9:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120699557#Comment_120699557

She was corrupt.

BorneTobyWilde · 10-06-2023 9:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120699571#Comment_120699571

She's a judge, independent, but DOJ want someone corrupt to do their bidding

duploelabs · 10-06-2023 9:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120699596#Comment_120699596

Who's she appointed by. In the previous raid subpoena, she was overruled in her trump favourable decisions, twice. She's not the blind hand of justice

Nody · 10-06-2023 9:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120699557#Comment_120699557

Because the special master was, and I qoute the 11th circuit court here that made the judgement, a court that has 6 judges appointed by Trump as a side note, "Should never have been appointed in the first place". She made an incorrect ruling and the appeals court called it out and stopped the incorrect ruling from moving ahead. How exactly is that a DOJ problem when it's a bloody court ruling with judges Trump appointed pointing out it was a wrong ruling by a lower court judge (and who as a side note made up rights for Trump with no legal basis which is exactly what Republicans like to complain that the courts are doing)?