Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

aloyisious

Looking at it in real time terms, Trump could have had the same staffers who filled the boxes in the White House empty his clothes and other personal items from the boxes at Mar-A-Lago leaving only the documents in the boxes. He just ignored the requests for the return of the documents from his "I'm still the boss" attitude. Ditto for the attempts of his lawyers to keep him safe from prosecution.

He's responsible for all he does so one must hope, for the sake of the staff, that there was no real dirty laundry in the boxes.

Leroy42

It's all rubbish. This guy is supposed to be a billionaire and we are expected to believe that he has to go through moving boxes himself to get his golf shoes! Come on!

What of course it really shows is just how lax he was about national security he thinks it's a good look that he piled in shoes and shirts with top secret classified information and he had no record of which boxes were which.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120748538#Comment_120748538

The other way to look at it is he honestly thought he was gonna be allowed stay president somehow and rushed packing up at the last minute so he really did just throw random stuff into those boxes along with the classified docs.

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120751806#Comment_120751806

Probably true for his mindset at that time, in that it was his dream to stay on as boss. He possibly never conceived that he was opening the rabbit-hole of rabbit holes [as he might see it] for himself.

Thinking about the documents, I wonder who did the packing and will they [whom-ever they are] have been asking themselves "will the boss take the rap for us or throw us under the bus - or if he gets back in, will he give us a pardon?".

Nody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752574#Comment_120752574

There would have been no issues for the packers IF Trump actually sent them back when found; the problem is Trump actively hid them and asked his laywers to remove them from being shown and/or sent back (and complained about his laywers actually writing down meeting minutes to protect themselves as noted in the lawyers notes included in the lawsuit). And this is the difference between Biden, Pence etc. because they actively cooperated to get the documents back once aware of them; Trump actively tried to hide the documents once aware of them.

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752653#Comment_120752653

Self-incrimination [as it were] by the person fond of using the quote of guilt and the 5th.

Leroy42

Exactly, this is where all this nonsense about golf shoes and POTUS ability to declassify runs out.

You can accept that in the haste to pack up, and for Trump the shock of reality, things were taken that shouldn't have been.

But he actively attempt to not only keep them but lied about it. He had plenty of opportunity, like Biden and Pence, to fess up cooperate and return the documents but he chose not to.

To what end? Certainly on what he said about Milly it appears he wanted to have as compromate, something to threaten others with in the future.

For the majority I would think it was mostly just to boast. The ultimate 'money can't buy' items which he could show off to his adoring friends.

Partly I think it was simply because he really does believe he should still be POTUS and therefore he can continue to act as POTUS.

But it all seems that legally he is screwed. And Nauta will take the fall for him. Nauta lied to the FBI about his part in handling the docs and if I was him I would be very worried about Trump throwing me under the bus. There is no doubt Trump will try to claim it was all Nautas fault.

Now they have been served the full details of evidence, including those that provided evidence to the prosecution, the reality that this is way more than just a DOJ witch hunt is clear.

If I'm Nauta, I'm looking for a deal.

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752875#Comment_120752875

That would probably be Nautas best option now. He and Trump are under court order not to communicate with each other to prevent an interference with witnesses so even the use of lawyers or old acquaintances for communications between them should be out. Trump would probably throw a fit if his agents told him Nauta was meeting with the Feds.

As for messing with Milly, Trump should be aware that messing specifically with the JOS in any manner of compromat is interfering with the national defence and probably a whole new federal crime. DOD and the JOS should/must have a range of optional plans in the locker for home and foreign emergencies for the president when needed. Trump probably hasn't got over Milly saying no to using N/Guard for his walk through Lafayette park to the church for a posturing session with the media.

aloyisious

It looks like this week may not be one Trump will like living through.

The USSC has ruled in favour of the North Carolina Supreme Court decision to overturn the result of that state's 2022 election. The case presented to the USSC was that the US constitution clause on independent state legislature meant no court could alter any decision of the state legislature in respect of election boundaries, including federal elections. The Chief Justice, along with five other USSC justices, decided that The Constitution “does not exempt state legislatures from the ordinary constraints imposed by state law.” The three other justices, Justices Clarence Thomas, Samuel A. Alito Jr. and Neil M. Gorsuch dissented. Trump apparently liked the legal theory that state legislature decisions were outside the remit of the courts due to his "understanding" of the constitutional clause.

The other item is apparently a recording [which I have not heard or seen a transcript of] CNN obtained and broadcast of Trump discussing a classified document he had possession of while mentioning that he was aware that the document had not been declassified by him. I do not know if this a new and different recording of Trump discussing a classified document different to the ones mentioned in the US media least week. If it is, then presumably his former AG, Mr Barr, will have had his legal opinion of Trumps position in respect to the charges filed against him [Trump] validated.

Water John

It's a recording of the Mark Meadows biography one. Just hearing it in his own words, sort of hard to deny, not press cuttings.

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120774808#Comment_120774808

Coincidentally I see MM was the elected Rep for North Carolina's 11th district in the House before he resigned the seat to take up as Trumps White House COS.

Rjd2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752875#Comment_120752875

A lot of the time when it comes to Trumps errors its best not to focus on the nefarious motives, but more often that not its " its the most stupid reason".

I definitely think he wanted them to impress his mates after 18 holes and he probably never got around to it while never truly grasping the legal pearl he was in.

He has a guy called Tom Fitton who he is friends with and has a big following on social media who was likely advising him terribly and because he is a relentless sycophant with good social numbers he heeded his advise over the saner legal people around him who were imploring him to give them back.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120775947#Comment_120775947

Tom Fitton , the head of "Judicial Watch" , the extreme right wing pressure group.

A man who leads a group focused on driving right wing interpretations of the Constitution.

A man without any kind of legal training or qualifications whatsoever.

But because he him tells he's awesome , Trump takes his legal advice.

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120775947#Comment_120775947

DOJ offered trump a settlement on this documents case, Fitton advised him against it. The best people

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120776206#Comment_120776206

Yup.

It was Fitton that told him that he didn't have to give anything back and the DOJ/NARA couldn't make him because of the "Clinton Socks" case.

A case that has absolutely zero relevance to the Trump situation , a fact that anyone with any kind of legal background would understand with even a cursory examination of the facts of the two cases.

But Fitton isn't a lawyer , he's an extremist boot-licker so Trump listened to him and not the experienced trial lawyers he had on the payroll at the time.

aloyisious

Its sad that the history of the US presidents early in this century will be littered with Trumps doings, mostly down to his choosing legal advice because it fitted his mindset and not his actual best interests.

Fitton telling Trump that he could use the ruling of the Clinton "sock-drawer" case to hold on to the classified documents, despite the difference in the circumstances and obvious dis-similarity between the items both former presidents claimed privilege on and Trump chose that free advice over the learned advice of his lawyers, even though Fitton's Judicial Watch group had lost the sock-drawer case it brought against Clinton, is almost laughable except for the office it concerns.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120777554#Comment_120777554

Trump has never wanted to hear the truth , he has always only ever wanted to hear what makes him feel good about himself or makes him think he's a winner and a Champion.

Perhaps had he been intelligent enough to have someone around that would "give it to him straight" and tell him when he was being a twat he would have been much more successful in business and maybe even in Politics.

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120777955#Comment_120777955

It'd be nice if Melania told Trump that Barron has something he needs to tell you - cue Barron in a son/father chat: [Pop, like, just get over the loss, you're embarrassing me, people are starting to say how alike we are].

aloyisious

I see today in the internet media reports that Jack Smith's team met with Rudy Giuliani over two days almost a fortnight ago now to interview him on what he knows about an Oval Office meeting in the period before Trump left office. This specific meeting had been raised in the congress hearings into Trump and his election team's behaviour and in the media an age back now and is old public knowledge now. I'm assuming the prosecutor is seeking confirmation directly from Giuliani that what was stated back then by witnesses is confirmable as true by him and usable in prosecutions. There does seem to have been a lot of plain speaking done at the meeting which was allegedly called to go over ideas on how Trump could scupper the election result using the presidential powers he still held as office-holder.

Separately, reading between the lawyers and political revelation lines, I see this as Smith's team also aiming to wind up Trump and Co with the notion that Rudy will throw some of them - maybe even the boss himself- under the collective bus hoping that others [even at this late stage] will turn states evidence against others at the Oval Office meeting. I'm assuming that Trump has not reinstated the funding he used to provide for Giuliani's defence since he cut it off in an attempt to distance himself from Giuliani.

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/unhinged-trump-white-house-meeting-is-now-focus-of-probe-into-attempt-to-overturn-2020-election/ar-AA1dAP24?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=8469947991074cf5ae12336868308f20&ei=18

aloyisious

Trump's legal team have asked Georgia's highest Court to disqualify and recuse the DA investigating the "request" by Trump to the state Secretary to "find" votes to overturn the election result in that state AND to block evidence gathered by the state from being used in any prosecution of Trump in respect of the interference by Trump in the election result. His team also went to Fulton County superior court seeking similar orders against the DA and a named judge [Judge McBurney] of that superior court who oversaw the Grand Jury hearing the case presented by the DA.

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/donald-trump-asks-georgia-court-to-disqualify-2020-election-probe-prosecutor/ar-AA1dSPuR

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2023-07-14/trump-lawyers-ask-georgia-courts-to-block-evidence-toss-prosecutor-from-2020-election-probe

Nody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120854750#Comment_120854750

In essence their argument appears to boil down to "It would be bad for Trump as he tries to become the GOP candidate" and that the investigation done was illegal (because it interviewed people close to Trump) due to this should not be allowed; I can't really see them being very successfull if I'm honest.

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120854803#Comment_120854803

I'm guessing that he and his legal team might be worried now of an appearance before a jury in a Georgia state court with a successful prosecution, conviction and sentence to a Georgia State prison outside the remit of the federal justice system. Attacking the Georgia State system, including its justice system, from within using the state judges against one of their judicial colleagues and a DA might rebound on him as Trump's team may not have asked either the DA or Judge to recuse themselves as a prior step.

aloyisious

It's possible that one of the wheels may be falling off the Trump election wagon if reports of Republican Party funders declining to continue funding the party while Trump is one of the candidates for the presidency are correct. His rabbiting-on about being the victim of a stolen election fraud seem to be causing a "ho-hum" deafness to arise in funders, that people are seeing who the liar is, despite Kevin McCarthy standing up to be counted alongside Trump yesterday. His continued conflating of I and WE in his statements about being victimized by lying Joe Biden in a continuing conspiracy to rob him of the presidency may be coming home to roost.

The judges will likely be next to get a lashing from him for rejecting his lawyers attempts to get them make favourable decision against the criminal cases being built against him.

Rjd2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120869368#Comment_120869368

Trump is fine when it comes to fundraising, the small donors love him the suckers.

Their was a decent enough breakdown their tbf. A lot of hot takes about DeSantis running out of money but he is doing ok but obviously a few things to worry about going forward.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/07/16/presidential-campaign-fundraising-fec-00106488

However yeah not all rosy when it comes to 2024. The key states one of them is Michigan and the GOP is a mess a state Trump has to win. Whitmer is a popular governor their which will help Biden. The Arizona GOP is also a mess and their is a chance that Lake will be the GOP senate nominee, her and Trump on the top of the ticket will be a disaster with independent voters who decide these things in AZ.

https://eu.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/michigan/2023/07/14/michigan-republican-party-bankruptcy-kristina-karamo-financial-problems-debt-clare-meeting-fight/70414759007/

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/swing-state-republicans-bleed-donors-cash-over-trumps-false-election-claims-2023-07-05/

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120873211#Comment_120873211

Sinema is the problem in Arizona - If she runs and splits the Democrat/Independent vote then she could hand the Senate seat to Lake which is a terrifying thought.

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120873211#Comment_120873211

Its true that the small donors like Trump, it's into who's account the money goes and the actual use its put to is where the difference lies when it comes to the funders. The major funders seem to prefer their funding to go into the party efforts. They want their dollars worth where it come to the input from elected people in Washington and state capitols. Naturally they are not going to say you know who is a conman as he has proven he has a lot of red baseball cap lovers who are willing to do his bidding when he drops one of his vague "action is needed" hints.

Sinema seems to have resolutely nailed her colours to the Trump mast.

Rjd2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120873563#Comment_120873563

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/arizona-senate-race-sinema-gallego-lake-tumultuous-2024/story?id=99439594

Senate race could be an absolute mess if Sinema runs as an independent ,if that happens impossible to predict how it goes down.

I think the issue though even if Sinema does not run, Trump and Lake on a same ticket is very messy for the top of their ticket in that state.

You can argue that despite some impressive inroads from the Dems over the years with some nice scalps its still a slightly red state but its most certainly not a MAGA state.

Its an issue the GOP have in many battleground states, MAGA is simply not popular with the swing/indy voters who are needed to win these type of elections.

Look at Texas, Cruz up in 2024 he should win but if you asked him would he rather have been on the ticket with Abbot in 2022 or Trump in 2024, what do you think he would say?

Flaneur OBrien

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but isn’t one of Sinema’s big problems in re-election is that her volunteers that won her the last election want absolutely nothing to do with her anymore?

She just won’t have the base of willing workers that she’ll need.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120876652#Comment_120876652

She hasn't a chance of getting elected herself , but she could carve off enough of the Democrat/Independent to vote make it next to impossible for the Democrat candidate to win.

Rjd2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120878721#Comment_120878721

I think with Lake/Trump on top of the ticket screeching about stolen elections and Rinos, Sinema could peel off plenty of suburban Republican voters which makes it even more complicated, although in a three way Lake should still fall over the line. Any other Republican in that potential three way would win quite comfortably though, that's the MAGA "magic" in a swing state.