Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

KrustyUCC · 28-04-2021 10:53pm

Reputable Rog wrote: »

A lot of unrest at the Blueshirt PP meeting tonight over MUP.
Varadamir says nothing is agreed, only Frank Feighan spoke in favour.
I don’t think it will happen anytime soon, all depends on what nut job replaces Snarlene though.

Good

Leo's a big fan of MUP so I doubt it will get changed at this stage

Still nice the bleeding obvious about cross border trade being pointed out along with breaking the program for government

KrustyUCC · 28-04-2021 10:54pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

FF clown mentions that there is no heavy volumes of traffic crossing the border to buy cheaper tobacco up North, eh that might be because cigarettes are dearer up north than here, bloody idiot...

€14.20
https://www.tesco.ie/groceries/Product/Details/?id=252173783

€15.28/£13.30
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/295664413

Who from FF was trying to defend it?

Atlantic Dawn · 28-04-2021 10:59pm

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Who from FF was trying to defend it?

Niall Collins

KrustyUCC · 28-04-2021 11:00pm

"Minister of State for Public Health Frank Feighan said the measure was targeting “harmful drinkers to buy cheap drink” and that it cannot wait. He said it would make “no difference” to “95 to 95pc” of alcohol served in off licences and he wanted it introduced as soon as possible.

What lies Frank Feighan is spouting

KrustyUCC · 28-04-2021 11:01pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Niall Collins

Makes sense

He's a clown on the majority of issues

Atlantic Dawn · 28-04-2021 11:16pm

Reputable Rog wrote: »

I don’t think it will happen anytime soon, all depends on what nut job replaces Snarlene though.

Yes they could potentially ban shopping of any kind on the sabbath

EddieN75 · 29-04-2021 1:13am

Country short of a few euro post Covid. No better time to increase duties (tax) on booze.

The ruffians and minions will keep buying it regardless. The last thing they want is for people to buy less of it. Less booze means less revenue for the state.

Suckit · 29-04-2021 1:28am

EddieN75 wrote: »

Country short of a few euro post Covid. No better time to increase duties (tax) on booze.

The ruffians and minions will keep buying it regardless. The last thing they want is for people to buy less of it. Less booze means less revenue for the state.

They aren't increasing any tax, it's just going to be profit for the retailers and breweries.

But there was talk of taxing it coming from within the EU like VRT. But can't see how that would be enforced.

quinnd6 · 29-04-2021 2:27am

It's the wealthy trying to steal from the poor again.
Make people who like the odd drink or two just as a bit of relief at the weekend pay more and line the politicians pocket so they can buy more of the expensive stuff for themselves because we all know those politicians are rolling in it.
Miserable bunch of fascist bullies that are running and ruining this country.
Running it into the ground.

Alcohol over here is already too expensive anyway. It's the most expensive in the EU.
We have crap weather, nowhere to go, nothing to do and they want to deprive people who don't have an alcohol problem to treating themselves to a drink or two at the weekend.
That's what I literally have.
One or 2 pints of cider in total at the weekend or a couple of glasses of wine at the weekend.
I don't drink during the week.
So they want to rip people like me off further.
Screw them.

the beer revolu · 29-04-2021 10:08am

Suckit wrote: »

But there was talk of taxing it coming from within the EU like VRT. But can't see how that would be enforced.

Excise duty is already payable on all alcohol in Ireland, imported or domestic.
It is already enforced and has been for generations.

Geuze · 29-04-2021 10:09am

EddieN75 wrote: »

Country short of a few euro post Covid. No better time to increase duties (tax) on booze.

I feel like I am repeating myself, but MUP is not a tax.

It is not excise duty.

It is a minimum price, with the extra revenue accruing to the supplier/wholesaler/retailer.

Geuze · 29-04-2021 10:13am

Reputable Rog wrote: »

A lot of unrest at the Blueshirt PP meeting tonight over MUP.
Varadamir says nothing is agreed, only Frank Feighan spoke in favour.
I don’t think it will happen anytime soon, all depends on what nut job replaces Snarlene though.

I have met Frank Feighan once or twice.

Nice fella.

I do not agree with MUP.

He used to have a shop in Boyle, or was it a pub?

ohnonotgmail · 29-04-2021 10:30am

EddieN75 wrote: »

Country short of a few euro post Covid. No better time to increase duties (tax) on booze.

The ruffians and minions will keep buying it regardless. The last thing they want is for people to buy less of it. Less booze means less revenue for the state.

5000+ posts in and some posters still haven't got a clue what MUP is.

CrabRevolution · 29-04-2021 10:35am

The One Doctor wrote: »

Going back to homebrewing soon, mead mainly.

I read this as "head mainly" and was picturing some sort of terrible sounding beer that's all head.

listermint · 29-04-2021 10:40am

Geuze wrote: »

I feel like I am repeating myself, but MUP is not a tax.

It is not excise duty.

It is a minimum price, with the extra revenue accruing to the supplier/wholesaler/retailer.

It's for the benefit of one industry alone.

Vintners.

GLaDOS · 29-04-2021 10:42am

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I read this as "head mainly" and was picturing some sort of terrible sounding beer that's all head.

I've had a few brews that have ended up like that :pac:

VinLieger · 29-04-2021 10:45am

Antares35 wrote: »

Wine home brew - I'm intrigued!

Yes! I love introducing ppl to this, its even simpler than doing beer in my opinion.

Theres great kits out there for starting, the cost of the equipment at the start is the main cost but the kits you buy of juice, yeast and finings mean each bottle only costs about 1 euro.

Surprisingly the best wine ive made has come from a kit that only took 7 days to make 25 bottles.

Im using my own grapes at the moment which is far trickier as balancing the ph, tannins, acidity etc is proper science and very difficult to get right but the kits are super simple.

the beer revolu · 29-04-2021 10:50am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

5000+ posts in and some posters still haven't got a clue what MUP is.

I'm certainly not in favour of mup but the amount of misinformation, lies, assumptions portrayed as facts, hysteria, exaggeration and general insanity in this thread is off the scale.

It's as bad as what AAI pedal as facts and evidence.

29-04-2021 10:51am

If I was back on the drink I'd be looking to make wine. It's super simple from what I recall. They used to sell bricks of grape juice during prohibition with instructions on what not to do because it would turn into wine. :pac:

listermint · 29-04-2021 10:52am

the beer revolu wrote: »

I'm certainly not in favour of mup but the amount of misinformation, lies, assumptions portrayed as facts, hysteria, exaggeration and general insanity in this thread is off the scale.

It's as bad as what AAI pedal as facts and evidence.

Can you give some examples.

Garibaldi? · 29-04-2021 10:54am

VinLieger wrote: »

Yes! I love introducing ppl to this, its even simpler than doing beer in my opinion.

Theres great kits out there for starting, the cost of the equipment at the start is the main cost but the kits you buy of juice, yeast and finings mean each bottle only costs about 1 euro.

Surprisingly the best wine ive made has come from a kit that only took 7 days to make 25 bottles.

Im using my own grapes at the moment which is far trickier as balancing the ph, tannins, acidity etc is proper science and very difficult to get right but the kits are super simple.

That's brilliant, but how long do you have to leave it before sampling the fruits of your labours?:D:D:D

the beer revolu · 29-04-2021 11:03am

listermint wrote: »

Can you give some examples.

People thinking the it's a tax.
People thinking that alcohol from the EU isn't currently taxed.
People knowing as a fact what exactly MUP will do to a complex and extremely competitive market.
Claim that Ireland has the highest priced alcohol in Europe.
People speaking as if alcohol is to be banned.
And the tone of some of the anger is a bit mad.

Like I said, I am against the introduction of mup.

VinLieger · 29-04-2021 11:03am

Garibaldi? wrote: »

That's brilliant, but how long do you have to leave it before sampling the fruits of your labours?:D:D:D

I made three 5 litre demijohns last September and tried a new thing this time adding oak chips, decanted 1 of those at christmas and it.... was okay, ive got the other two more still sitting waiting and ill open one up soon, grapes get harvested again in late august early September for 2021 batch.

Anything that I wouldn't drink by itself i usually make a nice summer punch with.

maestroamado · 29-04-2021 11:39am

This may have being asked before.
Does anyone here know how the minimum pricing is structured in Scotland.
Is it per bottle of beer or per unit alcohol.
I am just curious...

ohnonotgmail · 29-04-2021 11:42am

maestroamado wrote: »

This may have being asked before.
Does anyone here know how the minimum pricing is structured in Scotland.
Is it per bottle of beer or per unit alcohol.
I am just curious...

50p minimum for a unit of alcohol. a unit is 10 millilitres (8g) of pure alcohol.

maestroamado · 29-04-2021 11:59am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

50p minimum for a unit of alcohol. a unit is 10 millilitres (8g) of pure alcohol.

Thanks for that, i am now wondering what it was set at before or if anyone here the like with like retail price of say a litre bottle of say 40% stuff comparing Scotland to NI.

ohnonotgmail · 29-04-2021 12:25pm

maestroamado wrote: »

Thanks for that, i am now wondering what it was set at before or if anyone here the like with like retail price of say a litre bottle of say 40% stuff comparing Scotland to NI.

it wasn't set at anything before.

Reputable Rog · 29-04-2021 12:26pm

If you want to see the difference in prices it’s made in Scotland and Wales simply register for a UK Tesco or Sainsbury’s account with a random Scottish or Welsh postcode.
For England or NI you won’t need a postcode.

Quantum Erasure · 29-04-2021 12:55pm

Reputable Rog wrote: »

A lot of unrest at the Blueshirt PP meeting tonight over MUP.
Varadamir says nothing is agreed, only Frank Feighan spoke in favour.
I don’t think it will happen anytime soon, all depends on what nut job replaces Snarlene though.

Well done, did you come up with those names yourself?

listermint · 29-04-2021 12:59pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

People thinking the it's a tax.
People thinking that alcohol from the EU isn't currently taxed.
People knowing as a fact what exactly MUP will do to a complex and extremely competitive market.
Claim that Ireland has the highest priced alcohol in Europe.
People speaking as if alcohol is to be banned.
And the tone of some of the anger is a bit mad.

Like I said, I am against the introduction of mup.

Whatever about the rest. I find it amusing you seem to be still on the train that the craft sector and other premium drinks won't separate the gulf to regain their current pricing differential.

There's no evidence anywhere else on earth to back up that . None.

the beer revolu · 29-04-2021 1:08pm

listermint wrote: »

Whatever about the rest. I find it amusing you seem to be still on the train that the craft sector and other premium drinks won't separate the gulf to regain their current pricing differential.

There's no evidence anywhere else on earth to back up that . None.

Where did I make that claim?
Oh, yes. I didn't make any such claim.

My only claim is that I, like everyone else, I don't know what will happen.
Anyone who claims to know what is going to happen is taking through their hoop.

listermint · 29-04-2021 1:13pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

Where did I make that claim?
Oh, yes. I didn't make any such claim.

My only claim is that I, like everyone else, I don't know what will happen.
Anyone who claims to know what is going to happen is taking through their hoop.

Well tbh your inferring that premium will be grand something to do with a tight margins etc etc etc it can be seen between your posts frankly.

The existing 3 euro beers from craft sectors will push up to 3.50 nice round number sure the customer can support it and obviously all of the spirits will go up too.

It's not rocket science and anyone saying this will occur just has to look at Scotland's increases as the most recent example.

Not alot of hoop talk required it's how business and premium products operate as they always have. Why do you think that's not true specific reasons.

EddieN75 · 29-04-2021 1:14pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

5000+ posts in and some posters still haven't got a clue what MUP is.

I only read 3567 of them.

Regardless, they should have split the windfall between the suppliers and Revenue. All they have done is put more cash in Diageos pockets.

Odd kind of move. Great opportunity to claw back much needed funds

the beer revolu · 29-04-2021 1:17pm

listermint wrote: »

Well tbh your inferring that premium will be grand something to do with a tight margins etc etc etc it can be seen between your posts frankly.

The existing 3 euro beers from craft sectors will push up to 3.50 nice round number sure the customer can support it and obviously all of the spirits will go up too.

It's not rocket science and anyone saying this will occur just has to look at Scotland's increases as the most recent example.

Not alot of hoop talk required it's how business and premium products operate as they always have. Why do you think that's not true specific reasons.

You are forgetting about competition.

Can you provide evidence regarding Scotland?

VinLieger · 29-04-2021 1:19pm

EddieN75 wrote: »

I only read 3567 of them.

Regardless, they should have split the windfall between the suppliers and Revenue. All they have done is put more cash in Diageos pockets.

Odd kind of move. Great opportunity to claw back much needed funds

What you are talking about is an excise increase and the reasons they aren't doing that is firstly it would need to be announced in the budget where it would get lots of negative publicity, this way is more confusing for people and shields it via the ironclad pretend excuse of "health". Secondly it would also mean increasing prices and tax for the vintners too and this whole scheme is designed specifically to try to force people back into pubs by only making home drinking more expensive.

joeysoap · 29-04-2021 1:22pm

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Newry is in for another motherload. Actually you don’t have to go that far, unless of course you are going to do more shopping.

ohnonotgmail · 29-04-2021 1:37pm

EddieN75 wrote: »

I only read 3567 of them.

Regardless, they should have split the windfall between the suppliers and Revenue. All they have done is put more cash in Diageos pockets.

Odd kind of move. Great opportunity to claw back much needed funds

but that isn't what they are planning. what they are planning is well known. Why bother posting in a thread if you haven't got a clue what people are discussing?

EddieN75 · 29-04-2021 2:02pm

VinLieger wrote: »

What you are talking about is an excise increase and the reasons they aren't doing that is firstly it would need to be announced in the budget where it would get lots of negative publicity, this way is more confusing for people and shields it via the ironclad pretend excuse of "health". Secondly it would also mean increasing prices and tax for the vintners too and this whole scheme is designed specifically to try to force people back into pubs by only making home drinking more expensive.

I think you are right. Get them back into the pubs. Timed to perfection in the cusp of pub opening.

I wonder how many will instead choose to have friends over for a BBQ and still cheaper booze. No queues, no closing time and no listening to people you would rather not deal with!

Hotblack Desiato · 29-04-2021 3:20pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

50p minimum for a unit of alcohol. a unit is 10 millilitres (8g) of pure alcohol.

Whereas what's proposed here is a euro per 10g. Rip-off even if you agree with MUP (and I absolutely don't!)

tjhook · 29-04-2021 3:51pm

For all the huffing and puffing (on both sides), I bet this MUP will have little effect - either on people's behaviour or on health generally.

Alcoholics will still find a way to buy what they need.
People who prefer drinking in pubs will be unaffected and continue to do so (post-Covid).
People who prefer a drink at home won't suddenly become teetotalers or flock to the pubs.

Of course lack of any real impact will be assumed to mean even more MUP is needed - those pushing for this measure are hardly likely to accept any alternative explanation/viewpoint.

firemansam4 · 29-04-2021 4:00pm

tjhook wrote: »

For all the huffing and puffing (on both sides), I bet this MUP will have little effect - either on people's behaviour or on health generally.
Alcoholics will still find a way to buy what they need.

People who prefer drinking in pubs will be unaffected and continue to do so (post-Covid).

People who prefer a drink at home won't suddenly become teetotalers or flock to the pubs.

Of course lack of any real impact will be assumed to mean even more MUP is needed - those pushing for this measure are hardly likely to accept any alternative explanation/viewpoint.

I think there will be groups pushing for more extreme measures for sure, and who knows how far this will go.
The worrying thing is how much influence lobby groups seem to have on the government regardless of what the actual public opinion is on this.

Could a push for full prohibition be such an outlandish thought in the future? Im not saying this is in any way likely any time soon but the more measures are drip fed to us, it may become a more realistic scenario in decades to come.

the beer revolu · 29-04-2021 4:35pm

tjhook wrote: »

For all the huffing and puffing (on both sides), I bet this MUP will have little effect - either on people's behaviour or on health generally.
Alcoholics will still find a way to buy what they need.

People who prefer drinking in pubs will be unaffected and continue to do so (post-Covid).

People who prefer a drink at home won't suddenly become teetotalers or flock to the pubs.

Of course lack of any real impact will be assumed to mean even more MUP is needed - those pushing for this measure are hardly likely to accept any alternative explanation/viewpoint.

I think you're right.

If there is a drop in consumption (as per current trends) after/if it's introduced, the narrative, no doubt will be - it's working, let's do it more.

And if there's no drop or an insufficient drop the narrative, no doubt will be - it isn't working, we need to do it more.

Hotblack Desiato · 29-04-2021 5:05pm

tjhook wrote: »

People who prefer a drink at home won't suddenly become teetotalers or flock to the pubs.

You forgot to mention that these people whose drinking causes no issues for themselves or anyone else will be forced to pay substantially more, and it's not even a tax they're paying.

firemansam4 wrote: »

Could a push for full prohibition be such an outlandish thought in the future?

I fully expect to see rationing in my lifetime, I don't think that's an outlandish thought at all given where we are and what the unaccountable lobby groups want, which is frightening really.

PunkIPA · 29-04-2021 5:18pm

tjhook wrote: »

For all the huffing and puffing (on both sides), I bet this MUP will have little effect - either on people's behaviour or on health generally.
Alcoholics will still find a way to buy what they need.

People who prefer drinking in pubs will be unaffected and continue to do so (post-Covid).

People who prefer a drink at home won't suddenly become teetotalers or flock to the pubs.

I agree with all of this, but I think it will have a very real effect on the behaviour of a certain type of retail consumer. If it's brought in without similar measures in NI, I think it will 100% result in significant cross-border shopping.

Particularly at Christmas I could see people doing big day trips to Newry/Belfast to stock up on a year's supply, and possibly do a big Christmas shop at the same time.

For an average couple who are drinkers of a certain type there will be literally hundreds of euro a year to be saved by a day trip to do something they would be doing anyway.

I agree it will have no effect on overall consumption, let alone the consumption of addicts.

Tony EH · 29-04-2021 7:22pm

PunkIPA wrote: »

I agree with all of this, but I think it will have a very real effect on the behaviour of a certain type of retail consumer. If it's brought in without similar measures in NI, I think it will 100% result in significant cross-border shopping.

Particularly at Christmas I could see people doing big day trips to Newry/Belfast to stock up on a year's supply, and possibly do a big Christmas shop at the same time.

For an average couple who are drinkers of a certain type there will be literally hundreds of euro a year to be saved by a day trip to do something they would be doing anyway.

I agree it will have no effect on overall consumption, let alone the consumption of addicts.

I'm old enough to remember shopping trips to Newry. In fact there were coaches put on for shoppers to do the run in the 80's. I remember my mum being quite surprised at the savings to be had and I ended up with Star Wars figures for half the price they were in the south.

I can easily see booze runs to Newry being a thing if this comes in and there's a significant jump in cost.

I don't imagine that it will last too long however for people who will have to do longer journeys. But people close to the border will carry on buying their plonk in the north and I wouldn't blame them. If I lived in Dundalk or Sligo, that's what I'd be doing.

However, when you take the bullshit "heath" excuse out of the equation, and the fact that impact on revenue will be relatively insignificant, one has to ask oneself WHY this is being done?

Is it to try and force people back into pubs at the vintners behest? Is it to up prices, to be then followed by a tax increase later? Because there's no doubt in my mind that this is money orientated and nothing to do with the stated aim of national health.

patrickbrophy18 · 29-04-2021 7:37pm

This is precisely why I didn't vote for any of the Fine Gael, Fianna Fail or Green parties. They spend our taxes on NGOs which we didn't even ask for. They formed a coalition against our wishes when the pandemic hit, an unvoted move. Any change to law or government to do with the people should be put to vote and not forced on us.

The reason why many people are probably drinking more currently is because of the abject misery of lockdown measures which our government continue to enforce. Seriously, the amount of debt and unemployment being forced on the average Joe against their will would drive them to drink and even worse.

This is like kicking someone when they are down. Any escape from the numbing effects of lockdown is being eroded by those in the Dail possibly, while drinking in the Dail bar.

Oh, the irony!

Thankfully, an end to these misery inducing lockdowns is in sight. However, even before the pandemic this was mooted and passed. So...

Reputable Rog · 29-04-2021 7:42pm

I can remember a time when if you asked any Publican they’d tell you how they loved Good Friday as they could paint or do a bit of maintenance.
Then they saw the roaring trade done by off licences on the Thursday before and the clamour to be allowed open began.
There maybe some trouble ahead with the EU though, it was different for Scotland and Wales as they were leaving and the EU couldn’t be arsed dealing with internal UK matters at the juncture in time.

VinLieger · 29-04-2021 7:50pm

Reputable Rog wrote: »

I can remember a time when if you asked any Publican they’d tell you how they loved Good Friday as they could paint or do a bit of maintenance.
Then they saw the roaring trade done by off licences on the Thursday before and the clamour to be allowed open began.
There maybe some trouble ahead with the EU though, it was different for Scotland and Wales as they were leaving and the EU couldn’t be arsed dealing with internal UK matters at the juncture in time.

If it is against EU law its up to someone to take a case on it like the scottish whiskey industry did, the EU aren't gonna come calling by themselves.

Wilmol · 29-04-2021 9:36pm

firemansam4 wrote: »

I think there will be groups pushing for more extreme measures for sure, and who knows how far this will go.
The worrying thing is how much influence lobby groups seem to have on the government regardless of what the actual public opinion is on this.

Could a push for full prohibition be such an outlandish thought in the future? Im not saying this is in any way likely any time soon but the more measures are drip fed to us, it may become a more realistic scenario in decades to come.

I think they might follow the New Zealand principle. People born after certain year will no longer be able to purchase alcohol and cigarettes.

HBC08 · 29-04-2021 9:47pm

Tony EH wrote: »

I'm old enough to remember shopping trips to Newry. In fact there were coaches put on for shoppers to do the run in the 80's. I remember my mum being quite surprised at the savings to be had and I ended up with Star Wars figures for half the price they were in the south.

I can easily see booze runs to Newry being a thing if this comes in and there's a significant jump in cost.

I don't imagine that it will last too long however for people who will have to do longer journeys. But people close to the border will carry on buying their plonk in the north and I wouldn't blame them. If I lived in Dundalk or Sligo, that's what I'd be doing.

However, when you take the bullshit "heath" excuse out of the equation, and the fact that impact on revenue will be relatively insignificant, one has to ask oneself WHY this is being done?

Is it to try and force people back into pubs at the vintners behest? Is it to up prices, to be then followed by a tax increase later? Because there's no doubt in my mind that this is money orientated and nothing to do with the stated aim of national health.

I wish it was a plan to up prices with a view to a tax hike later as you say,theyre not even smart enough to manage something like that.
Whats happened here is lobby groups and a few puratanical wing nuts have gotten further than they thought,nobody shouted stop and here we are.

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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