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Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

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Comments

  • #852
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Nodin wrote: »
    It's a new variation on the usual

    'I won't buy a poppy to support British service personnell'

    'Ahh but HITLER'.

    As opposed to

    "Ill buy a poppy to help the families of injured and killed soldiers"

    "ah but the black and tans"


  • #853
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    Nodin wrote: »


    Again, you seem to be confusing hearsay, guff and nonsense as proof. We'll try again. You said



    Do you have a source/sources to show that

    (a) the NGA was run by IRA members

    (b) that the "vast majority" of monies raised went to "Sinn Fein & other organizations"?

    Do you have some proof, or will you do the decent thing and withdraw the allegations?
    So you will not take the word of your own Sinn Fein party members when they tell me where the money goes? Fair enough, shall I record our conversations over easter & send them to you.
    Perhaps if they don't wish to cooperate I could hit them about the knees with a baseball bat , ah! The good old days eh.


  • #854
    lukesmom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,400 ✭✭✭lukesmom


    summerskin wrote: »


    But you do realise that the tradition of "Bank Holidays" started in Britain in the 19th century, ergo it is a British tradition, one which the Irish copied some time later.

    Your reply, therefore, is pointless....

    But you are insinuating that I am against all British traditions which I am not. This just happens to be a British tradition I don't follow.


  • #855
    summerskin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭summerskin


    lukesmom wrote: »
    No chance would I wear a poppy. It's a British tradition and I'm republican Irish.
    lukesmom wrote: »
    But you are insinuating that I am against all British traditions which I am not. This just happens to be a British tradition I don't follow.


    You should probably have made that clearer, as your first post would seem to imply that as an irish republican you would not follow any british traditions.


  • #856
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Nodin wrote: »
    This?

    .....by having an official day to remember all those British service personell who died in WW1, II and subsequent conflicts, its putting one foot in the door of politics and acting as an agent of the state, IMO.
    Then I can safely say that you know nothing about Remembrance Sunday services as they are generally done in the Church of Ireland.

    To claim that the Church of Ireland is acting as the agent of Britain despite being disestablished in the 19th century is ridiculous.


  • #857
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    MagicSean wrote: »
    As opposed to

    "Ill buy a poppy to help the families of injured and killed soldiers"

    "ah but the black and tans"

    Really? Where have I used such an argument?


  • #858
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    philologos wrote: »
    Then I can safely say that you know nothing about Remembrance Sunday services as they are generally done in the Church of Ireland.

    To claim that the Church of Ireland is acting as the agent of Britain despite being disestablished in the 19th century is ridiculous.

    Do you have a link to what the official COI line is in regard to that sunday, because the COE one is as I describe......


  • #859
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    summerskin wrote: »
    So do you not take Bank Holidays? They're a British tradition too.


    No banks holidays in Ireland, public holidays you mean as described by the CAB.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/public_holidays_in_ireland.html


  • #860
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Nodin wrote: »
    Do you have a link to what the official COI line is in regard to that sunday, because the COE one is as I describe......

    These might help? http://ireland.anglican.org/news/4308 next Link > http://ireland.anglican.org/news/2781

    Most if not all C of I Churches hold the minutes silence, many have a full Remembrance service with a sermon to match, some also have a bugler to play the last post, plus many other variations of . . . .


  • #861
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Nodin wrote: »
    Really? Where have I used such an argument?

    Here?
    Nodin wrote: »
    One event? Unfortunately not.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81571598&postcount=680

    Your whole argument is about the evils of the british army.


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  • #862
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    MagicSean wrote: »
    Here?

    Your whole argument is about the evils of the british army.


    The evils of a colonial army, across the globe, post 1945, acting under direction or protection of the British government. Nothing so colluqial as the black and tans, or as dated.


  • #863
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    LordSutch wrote: »
    These might help? http://ireland.anglican.org/news/4308 next Link > http://ireland.anglican.org/news/2781

    Most if not all C of I Churches hold the minutes silence, many have a full Remembrance service with a sermon to match, some also have a bugler to play the last post, plus many other variations of . . . .


    Ty, but that doesn't really say "Each year COI holds services on Remembrance Sunday to (specifically what)" if you follow me. The only protestants I know are ex-protestant atheists and have no more of a bogs notion than I do.


  • #864
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,045 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    lukesmom wrote: »
    No chance would I wear a poppy. It's a British tradition and I'm republican Irish.

    So is football, but i bet you wouldnt have an issue wearing one of their football clubs shirts.


  • #865
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    So is football, but i bet you wouldnt have an issue wearing one of their football clubs shirts.

    While reading the 'Irish' Daily Mail/Star/Sun etc., knocking back a pint of John Smiths and eating Walkers crisps. :D


  • #866
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,045 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    While reading the 'Irish' Daily Mail/Star/Sun etc., knocking back a pint of John Smiths and eating Walkers crisps. :D

    Or dancing like a loony at the darts ;)

    http://youtu.be/jvu6Gq3XtM0


  • #867
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    While reading the 'Irish' Daily Mail/Star/Sun etc., knocking back a pint of John Smiths and eating Walkers crisps. :D

    Walkers crisps are kind of crap... KP barbecue flavour hula hoops on the other hand.... ;)

    I wouldn't have a problem with wearing a poppy, however I don't as I'm not aware of anyone selling them in my locality atm, not that I'm aware of anyway. Relatives of mine fought in the British army in WW1 and 2, I don't see an issue with a display of respect for them.


  • #868
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    While reading the 'Irish' Daily Mail/Star/Sun etc., knocking back a pint of John Smiths and eating Walkers crisps. :D


    ...which of course confuses objections to imperialism with some form of talibanesque fundamentalism. And were somebody to actually boycott everything British, you wouldn't be here congratulating them.


  • #869
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...which of course confuses objections to imperialism with some form of talibanesque fundamentalism. And were somebody to actually boycott everything British, you wouldn't be here congratulating them.

    He has a point actually. By buying those things or consuming them the profits essentially go to Britain. Then they are taxed according to corporate tax, and their workers are taxed income tax, which in turn goes in some part to fund Britain's Ministry of Defence.


  • #870
    getz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    GRMA wrote: »
    We owe a bigger debt to the Russians for destroying Nazism. If this was really about the debt we owe to people who stopped Nazism people wouldn't wear a British nationalist symbol which only remembers British soldiers - of all generations, from WW1 till now.
    i dont know why a irishman is in praise of russia,stalin hated ireland as natz lovers, and would not let them take their place on the worlds stage for over 10 years after the war,every year those british seamen who took part[and are still alive]are invited to the USSR in memory of those who died on the russian convoys,all wear poppies including russian hosts,


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  • #871
    getz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    i noticed to-day it has been announced that fine gael TD frank feighens will be wearing the poppy emblem in the chamber,last time it was worn was 16 years ago by three TDs


  • #872
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Nodin wrote: »
    The evils of a colonial army, across the globe, post 1945, acting under direction or protection of the British government. Nothing so colluqial as the black and tans, or as dated.

    Ah ok, then replace "black and tans" with "random post 1945 british army atrocity". Does that make you happier?


  • #873
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    MagicSean wrote: »
    Ah ok, then replace "black and tans" with "random post 1945 british army atrocity". Does that make you happier?


    Random? The camps in Kenya were policy, the torture policy, the racism policy. This was an Empire, and those aren't maintained with hugs and kisses.


  • #874
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    I think another point that's worth bringing up is that Irish presidents have come to Remembrance Day services at St Patrick's Cathedral. Are they traitors too?


  • #875
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    I mean the whole thousands of Irish men who died in the war is very complex, some joined because they believed it was the right thing to do and many more did because it was the only way to feed their family as a direct result of British rule here.

    We should show respect for Dead Irish men who fell on the battlefield but not under the umbrella of a poppy movement as its a truly british thing regardless of what other countries celebrate it.


  • #876
    getz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Nodin wrote: »
    Random? The camps in Kenya were policy, the torture policy, the racism policy. This was an Empire, and those aren't maintained with hugs and kisses.
    you have to get away from your obsession with kenya,in kenya,the kenya armed forces old comrades association[KAFOCA]was established in kenya immediately in 1945 to cater for the welfare of th ex-servicmen of the first and second world wars the{KAFOCA] and the KENYAN GOVERMENT recognize rememberance day you will find plenty of poppies being worn,so much for your anti brit rant, they dont care why do you ?


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  • #877
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    billybudd wrote: »
    We should show respect for Dead Irish men who fell on the battlefield but not under the umbrella of a poppy movement as its a truly british thing regardless of what other countries celebrate it.

    You say that as if thousands of Irish people (and their opinions) are worthless. My local Church is bedecked with poppies in preparation for the 11th, and most parishioners (Irish people) will be wearing their poppies to commemorate all the local lads who lay dead on/in the Poppy fields of flanders fields . . .


  • #878
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    LordSutch wrote: »
    You say that as if the thousands of Irish people who are wearing poppies just don't exist!


    I am saying it because they exist.


  • #879
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    Nodin wrote: »
    Random? The camps in Kenya were policy, the torture policy, the racism policy. This was an Empire, and those aren't maintained with hugs and kisses.
    All true, but Nodin, you have to accept that to many people the poppy, rightly or wrongly, is associated with the dead of WW1 and nothing else.
    Almost all emblems and flags have hidden horrors behind them, ours included.


  • #880
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    billybudd wrote: »
    I am saying it because they exist.

    Well we do exist and we do wear poppies (in Ireland) as a mark of respect.


  • #881
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    getz wrote: »
    you have to get away from your obsession with kenya,in kenya,the kenya armed forces old comrades association[KAFOCA]was established in kenya immediately in 1945 to cater for the welfare of th ex-servicmen of the first and second world wars the{KAFOCA] and the KENYAN GOVERMENT recognize rememberance day you will find plenty of poppies being worn,so much for your anti brit rant, they dont care why do you ?

    Not by people directly affected by those camps.


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  • #882
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Well we do exist and we do wear poppies (in Ireland) as a mark of respect.


    You need a poppy to show respect? i dont wear a lilly but i still show my respect for people who died during the easter rising.

    In other words i am not confrontational in my respects.


  • #883
    MJ23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,039 ✭✭✭MJ23


    Sure isn't it just like seeing those fellas that go around in Man Utd and Liverpool jerseys.


  • #884
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    MJ23 wrote: »
    Sure isn't it just like seeing those fellas that go around in Man Utd and Liverpool jerseys.


    No, as far as i know neither of those teams were colonial powers. well not in the war crime sense.


  • #885
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    philologos wrote: »
    I think another point that's worth bringing up is that Irish presidents have come to Remembrance Day services at St Patrick's Cathedral. Are they traitors too?


    They are in involved with politics, they would show up to an opeing of an envelope if it got them votes.

    Anyway for me remembering dead Irish people who died fighting in www1/2 is not being a traitor, its the assosiation with the British establishment that is.


  • #886
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    billybudd wrote: »
    You need a poppy to show respect? i dont wear a lilly but i still show my respect for people who died during the easter rising.

    In other words i am not confrontational in my respects.

    Of course you don't need a poppy to show respect, but please let those Irish people who do, do so without ridicule. You keep banging on about it being a British thing only, and what I am saying is that the poppy is not exclusive to Britain - Its a personal choice here in Ireland too, always has been since the poppy was introduced as a symbol of remembrance.


  • #887
    goodie2shoes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 702 ✭✭✭goodie2shoes


    i would not wear a poppy because it represents british imperialism which was an evil enterprise imho.

    those irish men that died during ww1 (and i like most irish people have relatives that served &/or died), were duped into fighting a stupid war between 2 imperialist powers. those that were not duped did it for money, which was in extremely short supply.

    as far as commerating the war dead, i for one do not wish to say prayers for the auxies or the black n' tans who murdered, raped and pillaged my country, or for brit paras who quite recently murdered innocent people in derry & ballymurphy just a few miles up the road.

    i would remember/commerate those of ww2, which i believe was a just war, fought against the forces of darkness. some wars are worth fighting, some are not.


  • #888
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Of course you don't need a poppy to show respect, but please let those Irish people who do, do so without ridicule. You keep banging on about it being a British thing only, and what I am saying is that the poppy is not exclusive to Britain - Its a personal choice here in Ireland too, always has been since the poppy was introduced as a symbol of remembrance.


    It is exclusive to the british army regardless if someone from Paris wears it, he is showing solidarity or respect to former BA soliders. My point is that alot of Irish men killed in the war did not want to fight on behalf of Britain.


  • #889
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    billybudd wrote: »


    It is exclusive to the british army regardless if someone from Paris wears it, he is showing solidarity or respect to former BA soliders. My point is that alot of Irish men killed in the war did not want to fight on behalf of Britain.
    Poppy wearing actually began in the USA following the First World War in 1918.


  • #890
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    philologos wrote: »
    Poppy wearing actually began in the USA following the First World War in 1918.


    Yes i am aware of that, your point?

    And actually it is not that common in the states now, in Canada it is still a very popular tradition, but being a common wealth it is understandable.


  • #891
    getz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    philologos wrote: »
    Poppy wearing actually began in the USA following the First World War in 1918.
    the american legion still has the poppy as their symbol of remembrance


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  • #892
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    philologos wrote: »
    Poppy wearing actually began in the USA following the First World War in 1918.

    Curious as you constantly harp on about Remembrance, sacrifice of millions etc. Do you also have the same affection for the victims of The Famine of your own country?


  • #893
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    I would have absolutely no problem in wearing a poppy, and did so in the UK. In Ireland it's more controversial and perhaps best avoided.

    As long as it isn't accompanied by some jingost, nationalist tripe like "support the troops", as I frequently see when I venture onto the ole facebook, then I have no problem.

    Like lots of Irish people I had some relatives who died in some silly, some not-so-silly foreign wars and I don't believe there is any harm in that more poignant and human expression of never forgetting. Irishness or Britishness is completely irrelevant to remembering these dead.


  • #894
    getz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    gurramok wrote: »
    Curious as you constantly harp on about Remembrance, sacrifice of millions etc. Do you also have the same affection for the victims of The Famine of your own country?
    yes


  • #895
    The Idyl Race
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭The Idyl Race


    later12 wrote: »
    I would have absolutely no problem in wearing a poppy, and did so in the UK. In Ireland it's more controversial and perhaps best avoided.

    As long as it isn't accompanied by some jingost, nationalist tripe like "support the troops", as I frequently see when I venture onto the ole facebook, then I have no problem.

    Like lots of Irish people I had some relatives who died in some silly, some not-so-silly foreign wars and I don't believe there is any harm in that more poignant and human expression of never forgetting. Irishness or Britishness is completely irrelevant to remembering these dead.

    +1 to that. Wearing the poppy seems to be a provocative act to a minority, even if the RBL moneys raised in the Republic go only to ROI based ex-servicemen and their families. I doubt however that fact would be in the minds of those whose sense of Irish nationality appears to be so brittle that they cannot understand those of us who remember. For those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not, none is possible.


  • #896
    goodie2shoes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 702 ✭✭✭goodie2shoes


    The Idyl Race wrote: »
    +1 to that. Wearing the poppy seems to be a provocative act to a minority, even if the RBL moneys raised in the Republic go only to ROI based ex-servicemen and their families. I doubt however that fact would be in the minds of those whose sense of Irish nationality appears to be so brittle that they cannot understand those of us who remember. For those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not, none is possible.

    Nonsense.
    i fully understand the reasoning/logic why some irish people decide to wear the poppy. i personally do not agree with this reasoning, which i believe to be flawed and i would also object to much (but not all) that the poppy represents.

    you should think things through before you make such silly sweeping statements. just because you choose to wear a paper flower does not give you a monopoly on understanding.


  • #897
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    getz wrote: »
    yes

    Any commemorations planned? Perhaps fundraising using a symbol?


  • #898
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    gurramok wrote: »
    Any commemorations planned? Perhaps fundraising using a symbol?

    well, if you can find me anyone who is still affected by the famine I would gladly help them out.


  • #899
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    well, if you can find me anyone who is still affected by the famine I would gladly help them out.

    Survivors? Or relatives?


  • #900
    golden lane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    why is it that every discussion about ireland ends up by runnung every other country down......

    grow up and take responsibilty for your own actions.....whatever they are......

    the world does not care one iota what ireland thinks or does........


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  • #901
    goodie2shoes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 702 ✭✭✭goodie2shoes


    gurramok wrote: »
    Any commemorations planned? Perhaps fundraising using a symbol?

    there should be a national day of commemoration for the famine victims.
    it's a disgrace that there is not.


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