General MMA Chat/News mk3 - No Spoilers Use Event Threads

The White Feather · 13-01-2018 7:57pm

dulux99 wrote: »

Ok...no real indication from Helwanis tweet there that it's "very serious"? Helwani doesn't even know what's happened

Well this doesn't sound good. I think she is a teammate

https://twitter.com/PaigeVanzantUFC/status/952235783733284865

The White Feather · 13-01-2018 8:02pm

These are fairly remarkable stats in this tweet

https://twitter.com/MikeBohnMMA/status/952239513950015488

Ultimate Seduction · 13-01-2018 8:05pm

Fighters weigh in while getting checked out before entering the octagon. That's the only way to stop this nonsense.

Django99 · 13-01-2018 8:08pm

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Fighters weigh in while getting checked out before entering the octagon. That's the only way to stop this nonsense.

Would this not lead to fighters competing while dehydrated?

Subcomandante Marcos · 13-01-2018 8:14pm

Whatever One FC are bringing in to stop weight cutting should be explored.

EagererBeaver · 13-01-2018 8:15pm

Django99 wrote: »

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Fighters weigh in while getting checked out before entering the octagon. That's the only way to stop this nonsense.

Would this not lead to fighters competing while dehydrated?

Of course it would. Ridiculous suggestion.

dulux99 · 13-01-2018 8:15pm

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Fighters weigh in while getting checked out before entering the octagon. That's the only way to stop this nonsense.

That would be so much worse. Fighters will always find a way to try and get an advantage by dehydrating themselves. Getting Ko'd in a weight cutting state would be fatal

The White Feather · 13-01-2018 8:18pm

Just go back to basics like UFC 1! No Weights just a jock strap,gloves and gum-shield like McGregor said! After all he took on Diaz who had 100lbs and wayyyyyy taller than him!

Subcomandante Marcos · 13-01-2018 8:29pm

The White Feather wrote: »

Just go back to basics like UFC 1! No Weights just a jock strap,gloves and gum-shield like McGregor said! After all he took on Diaz who had 100lbs and wayyyyyy taller than him!

There was one person wearing a single glove in UFC 1.

Ultimate Seduction · 13-01-2018 8:42pm

dulux99 wrote: »

That would be so much worse. Fighters will always find a way to try and get an advantage by dehydrating themselves. Getting Ko'd in a weight cutting state would be fatal

They wouldn't have any advantage, that's the point! If the fight is at lightweight both have to be 155lbs in the octagon. Tell me why a fighter would dehydrate if there is no advantage to be gained!

Ultimate Seduction · 13-01-2018 8:44pm

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Of course it would. Ridiculous suggestion.

Bright spark why would a fighter dehydrate when he and his opponent would have to be very same weight in the octagon

dulux99 · 13-01-2018 8:45pm

No. You're wrong. It's an idiotic suggestion.

The White Feather · 13-01-2018 8:48pm

Ariel says Poor Hall suffered a seizure in the middle of it all. Poor fella

Beersmith · 13-01-2018 8:49pm

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Bright spark why would a fighter dehydrate when he and his opponent would have to be very same weight in the octagon

Oh god. If you don't understand you really have to think it through more.

Ultimate Seduction · 13-01-2018 8:52pm

Beersmith wrote: »

Oh god. If you don't understand you really have to think it through more.

No I don't understand at all. You obviously don't either if you can't tell me why a fighter would dehydrate if there was no advantage to be gained from it

The White Feather · 13-01-2018 8:52pm

Arie gave a bit more info. Obviously he mans fainted!

https://twitter.com/arielhelwani/status/952261912594657280

dulux99 · 13-01-2018 8:55pm

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

No I don't understand at all. You obviously don't either if you can't tell me why a fighter would cut weight if there was no advantage to be gained from it

A fighter will always, always, always look for an advantage. If he thinks he can be be 1lb heavier than the guy he's fighting then he will exhaust that opportunity. If you think same day weigh ins will eradicate weight cutting then youre unbelievably naive. Fighters will cut just as much weight and you're just robbing them of the 24 hour recovery window and therefore it's 10 times more dangerous. I've literally never seen anyone else ever suggesting same day weigh ins.

Ultimate Seduction · 13-01-2018 8:57pm

dulux99 wrote: »

A fighter will always, always, always look for an advantage. If he thinks he can be be 1lb heavier than the guy he's fighting then he will exhaust that opportunity. If you think same day weigh ins will eradicate weight cutting then youre unbelievably naive. Fighters will cut just as much weight and you're just robbing them of the 24 hour recovery window and therefore it's 10 times more dangerous. I've literally never seen anyone else ever suggesting same day weigh ins.

Are you missing the point altogether or what? There would be no weight advantage. He could cut all he likes, he'd still have to weigh the same weight as his opponent.

Joe Rogan suggested on fight night weigh ins before actually.

dulux99 · 13-01-2018 9:03pm

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Are you missing the point altogether or what? There would be no weight advantage. He could cut all he likes, he'd still have to weigh the same weight as his opponent.

Joe Rogan suggested on fight night weigh ins before actually.

I think it's clear that only one person here is missing the point pal.

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/forums/UnderGround/Munson-Death-a-case-against-same-day-weigh-ins:2385433 have a read off this

Joe rogan also suggests holding MMA fights on American football fields and fighting without gloves. I suppose they're great ideas too.

Fromvert · 13-01-2018 9:05pm

A fighter who fights at say 155lbs won't walk around and maintain that weight, he'll be a few over even if he knows it's same day weigh in. He'll think his diet/nutrition and training will be perfect and he'll be 155lbs on the day.

Fighter ends messing up his diet/training and isn't at 155lbs come fight day, he'll cut the water to avoid being fined/pulled from the card. 90% of them are not making enough to be able to deal with a fine or missing a fight altogether, they'll do whatever they can to make that weight.

They'll start with oh I need to cut 1/2 lbs on the day to make weight. He fights and wins and thinks that wasn't so bad, maybe I can cut 3/4 lbs next time and so on.

The White Feather · 13-01-2018 9:10pm

This is from Iain Kidd from Bloody Elbow. He covers PEDS, Fighter safety and Regulation. Not saying he is right or wrong just showing his tweet

https://twitter.com/iainkidd/status/952233963535388672

Fromvert · 13-01-2018 9:18pm

It's difficult to figure out a way that'll work best.

If you tell fighters they're going to be weighed when they arrive the week of the fight and they can't weigh x over their contracted weight they'll just cut the day before. So they end up cutting twice in a week, the second one being a larger cut.

Random weigh ins throughout the year - could work but is extremely costly, could they add it to part of USADA's job, not sure.

Can they monitor their hydration levels? If this could work that is possibly the best I can think of. You're not fighting if your hydration levels are below x

Subcomandante Marcos · 13-01-2018 9:20pm

dulux99 wrote: »

I think it's clear that only one person here is missing the point pal.

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/forums/UnderGround/Munson-Death-a-case-against-same-day-weigh-ins:2385433 have a read off this

Joe rogan also suggests holding MMA fights on American football fields and fighting without gloves. I suppose they're great ideas too.

Fighting without gloves would be safer, gloves protect the striker not the person being struck.

Beersmith · 13-01-2018 9:21pm

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

No I don't understand at all. You obviously don't either if you can't tell me why a fighter would dehydrate if there was no advantage to be gained from it

Just because a fighter wouldn't have an actual weight advantage doesn't mean they wouldn't cut weight and be the naturally bigger fighter and have more power etc.

Your not getting the problem here, fighters will lose water to make the weight and now its super dangerous to be absorbing strikes to the head.

The White Feather · 13-01-2018 9:26pm

Michael Chiesa said this

They should make early weigh ins optional but make it definitive at the beginning of fight week if you intend to weigh in early at the hotel or at the ceremonial weigh in. That way fighters can’t cheat the system if they miss weight at the early weigh in. You get what I’m saying?

It's very hard to know what the best way to do it

At least Hall seems to be getting better

https://twitter.com/MMAjunkieJohn/status/952260633025830912

Gamb!t · 13-01-2018 9:27pm

Cant embed the tweet from Belfort.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bd5jbtEF1Mx/?taken-by=vitorbelfort

Ultimate Seduction · 13-01-2018 9:29pm

dulux99 wrote: »

I think it's clear that only one person here is missing the point pal.

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/forums/UnderGround/Munson-Death-a-case-against-same-day-weigh-ins:2385433 have a read off this

Joe rogan also suggests holding MMA fights on American football fields and fighting without gloves. I suppose they're great ideas too.

Don't see the problem with either of those ideas actually. Only reason I mentioned Rogan is because I'm not "literally the only person ever to suggest this"

I'm well aware taking strikes to the head while severely dehydrated is extremely dangerous, the idea is that the wouldn't be dehydrated.

Weigh them 7 days out from fight and the must be within 5 or 10 lbs of the limit so. It can't be this hard to solve

The early weigh ins have been an absolute disaster with almost treble the amount of fighters missing weight since it was brought in.

The White Feather · 13-01-2018 9:33pm

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

The early weigh ins have been an absolute disaster with almost treble the amount of fighters missing weight since it was brought in.

Then maybe they are just not morning people?

Zero-Cool · 13-01-2018 9:54pm

Saw a report that Uriah had a seizure after he fainted, jaysus glad he's doing better. Feel bad for Vitor as well.

The whole weigh in thing is very hard to figure out the best option. I think the old way was better and it. Made the weigh ins actually mean something, tense as ****. Now I barely bother watching the ceremonial weigh ins.

Django99 · 13-01-2018 10:03pm

Here is my radical solution to weight cutting.

As long as there is weight classes, there will be weight cutting. A fighter (in any combat sport) will look for any advantage possible. The only way to eliminate weight cutting would be to eliminate weight limits.

Each promotion would have 5/6 divisions. When a fighter signs for a promotion, they are analysed by a physician as to decide which division they will compete in based on their size. They compete in that division until they are judged to have changed enough in size to warrant a change in division. No more weigh ins, no more weight limits, no more weight cuts. Every fighter at peak physical condition for their bouts.

There are already size discrepancies within weight classes. Darren Till is much bigger than RDA, but if they fight they will both be made to step on a scales the day before the fight and hit a number which is below what both of them will weigh in the octagon. This is pointless. Even more pointless when two fighters weigh roughly the same.

There would be some borderline cases when it comes to judging which division a fighter should compete. But we already use judging to decide the winner of a fight, so we would have to just put up with that. The person/people doing the judging should be independent from the promotion, similar to USADA.

Beersmith · 13-01-2018 10:05pm

Would they be in peak physical condition. They will still bulk up as much as possible and still cut to make the limit.

Django99 · 13-01-2018 10:12pm

Beersmith wrote: »

Would they be in peak physical condition. They will still bulk up as much as possible and still cut to make the limit.

There would be no limit. They can bulk up as much as they like, when they are examined on signing to a promotion they will be judged on their body composition, height, etc. People of similar size would fight in the same division.

Django99 · 13-01-2018 10:13pm

The White Feather wrote: »

Then maybe they are just not morning people?

I think one of the issues with morning weigh ins is that people cut weight through the night. That can't help an already tough process.

jeff bingham · 13-01-2018 10:43pm

These guys are hardly back to 100% peak condition for the fight after cutting so much weight a day or 2 before are they?!

CatFromHue · 13-01-2018 11:03pm

jeff bingham wrote: »

These guys are hardly back to 100% peak condition for the fight after cutting so much weight a day or 2 before are they?!

Someone on here posted an article written by a guy who a big weight cut and then rehydrated, both done as a fighter would.

He did 3 physical tests, I can't remember what they were now, and he was pretty much the exact same after rehydrating as he was before the cut began.

EagererBeaver · 13-01-2018 11:09pm

Django99 wrote: »

Here is my radical solution to weight cutting.

As long as there is weight classes, there will be weight cutting. A fighter (in any combat sport) will look for any advantage possible. The only way to eliminate weight cutting would be to eliminate weight limits.

Each promotion would have 5/6 divisions. When a fighter signs for a promotion, they are analysed by a physician as to decide which division they will compete in based on their size. They compete in that division until they are judged to have changed enough in size to warrant a change in division. No more weigh ins, no more weight limits, no more weight cuts. Every fighter at peak physical condition for their bouts.

There are already size discrepancies within weight classes. Darren Till is much bigger than RDA, but if they fight they will both be made to step on a scales the day before the fight and hit a number which is below what both of them will weigh in the octagon. This is pointless. Even more pointless when two fighters weigh roughly the same.

There would be some borderline cases when it comes to judging which division a fighter should compete. But we already use judging to decide the winner of a fight, so we would have to just put up with that. The person/people doing the judging should be independent from the promotion, similar to USADA.

Why only 5/6 divisions? You're going to end up with massive size disparity in those divisions.

jeff bingham · 13-01-2018 11:09pm

CatFromHue wrote:

Someone on here posted an article written by a guy who a big weight cut and then rehydrated, both done as a fighter would.

CatFromHue wrote:

He did 3 physical tests, I can't remember what they were now, and he was pretty much the exact same after rehydrating as he was before the cut began.

Really I wouldn't have thought that. Thanks il go have a look for it.

Lukker- · 13-01-2018 11:26pm

Your increasing the risk of concussion and permanent brain damage because the fluid in the brain takes 3 days to fully rehydrate. That’s the biggest worry.

Django99 · 13-01-2018 11:32pm

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Why only 5/6 divisions? You're going to end up with massive size disparity in those divisions.

If for example you had

200lbs+ guys - I don't really see why LHW is 205 at the moment. The best HWs are generally around 240-250 as is, and guys at LHW are cutting from 220-230. I don't see much of a reason to seperate the bigger LHWs like Jones and Cormier from HWs.

Smaller LHWs (which there aren't many of when I think of it) could group with current MWs like Rockhold and Weidman. Almost no difference in size there I think.

Next group would include people like Gastelum, Whittaker, and the big WWs like Till, Maia etc.

Down from that the likes of Khabib, Ferguson, McGregor, RDA.

After that I'd be split between having one or two more groups. The likes of Mighty Mouse might not be able to compete if there was only one division, so I'd lean towards having two. First one would be guys like Frankie, Mendes, and biggger BWs.

After that you'd have the small guys.

It would be a drastic change from what we have obviously, but I think that's what's required to solve the problem.

Mellor · 14-01-2018 9:19am

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

No I don't understand at all. You obviously don't either if you can't tell me why a fighter would dehydrate if there was no advantage to be gained from it

Fighter is booked st 155 and excepts to serve at that over the course of camp.
Camp wasn't ideal and he comes out of camp (1 week out) at 158-160.
So either he misses weight and risks a DQ, or he dehydrate to fights.

Beersmith wrote: »

Just because a fighter wouldn't have an actual weight advantage doesn't mean they wouldn't cut weight and be the naturally bigger fighter and have more power etc.

That wouldn't be the case though. If somebody has to cut, they lose any size advantage they had prior. And power drops when you are dehydrated.

Mellor · 14-01-2018 9:40am

CatFromHue wrote: »

Someone on here posted an article written by a guy who a big weight cut and then rehydrated, both done as a fighter would.

He did 3 physical tests, I can't remember what they were now, and he was pretty much the exact same after rehydrating as he was before the cut began.

That was probably me.
Tests were power, strength endurance and high intensity cardio endurance.
This is the article.
https://tim.blog/2013/05/06/how-to-cut-weight-ufc/amp/

Results:
(Notice the huge drop across the board when dehydratd regarding my post above)

POWER TEST: VERTICAL JUMP

Baseline: 31.7 inches
After Dehydration: 27.6 inches
Re-hydrated: 29 inches

STRENGTH ENDURANCE TEST: 225-POUND BENCH PRESS

Baseline: 15 reps
After Dehydration: 5 reps
Rehydrated: 12 reps

ENDURANCE TEXT: MAX TIME ON TREADMILL

Baseline: 3 minutes and 14 seconds of sprinting at 8mph with 6% incline
After Dehydration: 1 minute and 28 seconds of sprinting at 8mph with 3% incline
Rehydrated: 3 minutes and 25 seconds of sprinting at 8mph with 6% incline

Paully D · 14-01-2018 5:56pm

https://twitter.com/mma_kings/status/952584634398801920

dashoonage · 14-01-2018 5:59pm

Paully D wrote: »

https://twitter.com/mma_kings/status/952584634398801920

Yup...will watch.

Lukker- · 14-01-2018 6:24pm

Gotta say that’s a cracking retirement fight for both guys.

Zero-Cool · 14-01-2018 7:57pm

Jesus that's some lineup.

https://twitter.com/arielhelwani/status/952604262328094720

ricero · 14-01-2018 8:28pm

Hope bisping gets revange for what vitor did to his eye

Zero-Cool · 14-01-2018 9:33pm

ricero wrote: »

Hope bisping gets revange for what vitor did to his eye

I'd have absolutley no problem if Mike pumped himself full of juice for this one, the amount of cheats he had to face in his career and the life lasting damage he has sustained.

Really though, hope he can pull off a win in front of the home crowd and end his career in a high.

mailburner · 14-01-2018 11:01pm

Zero-Cool wrote: »

I'd have absolutley no problem if Mike pumped himself full of juice for this one, the amount of cheats he had to face in his career and the life lasting damage he has sustained.

Really though, hope he can pull off a win in front of the hike crowd and end his career in a high.

He'll have little problem beating vitor if he gets past round one, will be one way traffic after.
I hope bisping pops away at vitor for five rounds as it'll be embarrassing for vitor if he has to go five.

Django99 · 14-01-2018 11:02pm

Not happening apparently, Bisping told Helwani he wants nothing to do with Vitor.

Django99 · 14-01-2018 11:27pm

A Russian journalist has tweeted that Khabib Tony will happen April 7th in Brooklyn.

https://twitter.com/adamzubayraev/status/952607325134651392

General MMA Chat/News mk3 - **No Spoilers Use Event Threads**

Comments

General MMA Chat/News mk3 - No Spoilers Use Event Threads