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Remote working public servants not entitled to take flexi time.

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    #92
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Hopefully they're still getting their time off to cash their weekly cheque


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    #93
    relax carry on
    Registered Users Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭relax carry on


    Bambi wrote: »
    Hopefully they're still getting their time off to cash their weekly cheque

    That's been gone for over a decade.


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    #94
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,270 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    gmisk wrote: »
    You can build up time on your clock (needs to be full or halfday) and take an extra day/halfday of leave (one a month a long time ago I think it was 1.5 days max a month).
    It is only available in certain organisations. It is also only available at certain grades (HEO and below I think?)
    I am an AP for example so don't have the option.

    I can see why that doesn't apply to WFH


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    #95
    gerrybbadd
    Registered Users Posts: 10,301 ✭✭✭✭gerrybbadd


    horsebox7 wrote: »
    Due to unprecedented cv19 arrangements public servants including those working in the local authority sector are not entitled to take flexi leave while those who are office based are entitled to take flexi leave which is unfair.

    Civil Servant here - how is this unfair exactly?

    Of course Flexi has been put on hold. As it should be. Work Life balance doesn't even come into it when you're working from home. It's this kind of griping that gives us all a bad rap.


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    #96
    gerrybbadd
    Registered Users Posts: 10,301 ✭✭✭✭gerrybbadd


    Bambi wrote: »
    Hopefully they're still getting their time off to cash their weekly cheque

    Yes, and hopefully we will still get a day off to celebrate The King's birthday too:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


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    #97
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,374 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    hamburgham wrote: »
    Thousands of non office based PS staff who due to the nature of their work, cannot perform their jobs at home. Still on full pay. What else are they doing other than sitting back with their feet up?

    What kind of staff in what organisations are you referring to here?


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    #98
    Aglomerado
    Registered Users Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭Aglomerado


    My flexi is gone since March. I am still recording my time in the system as per instructions. It's balancing out mostly: Some weeks I might put in 36 hours which would mean a deficit, but one or two crazy weeks where I put in 40+ hours due to a deluge of PQs etc. will cancel those out. No set hours but I try to keep normal office hours. Some colleagues make up time at evenings or weekends. I used to always work up at least a day's flexi leave every 4 weeks when I was in the office, but I have no problem losing that working from home; it's too difficult for managers to validate it now.


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    #99
    Tzardine
    Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭Tzardine


    Jesus OP. Get a grip.

    You are essentially moaning that you can't get your extra day a month off - when you are at home all the time anyway.

    I am in the CS too. We have had it pretty good since March. Pick your battles.


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    #100
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    gerrybbadd wrote: »
    Yes, and hopefully we will still get a day off to celebrate The King's birthday too:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    I take the 8th of Jan off every year.


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    #101
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,671 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    siblers wrote: »
    What about if you need time off for school collections or drop offs? Have a medical appointment? Or if you have no one to mind your child etc for part of the day. Just because you work from home doesn't mean you have no excuse not to be at work

    Feel free to take annual leave, like the rest of us have to.


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    #102
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    siblers wrote: »
    What about if you need time off for school collections or drop offs? Have a medical appointment? Or if you have no one to mind your child etc for part of the day. Just because you work from home doesn't mean you have no excuse not to be at work

    Why would you need time off for school collections and drop offs?

    Morning core time is 10:00am to 12:30pm. Most schools start around 9am, so where is the issue?

    Same with collections, you can take your lunch anytime between 12:30 and 2:30pm. So do the pickup then. If the school pick up is later then 2:30pm, just take a later lunch break. The system allows for staggered lunch breaks and working hours now. If anything, its better then before.

    If you have no one to mind your child during part of the day, clock off and make up those hours when you do, or in the evenings or weekends. Though as far as I am aware childminders and creches are still operating so again, where is the issue? If you were in the office you'd have to arrange childcare.

    Credit for core time for medical appointments was alway allowed. That hasn't changed either.


    Now, its 2:30pm, my lunchbreak is over! So back to work...


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    #103
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why would you need time off for school collections and drop offs?

    Morning core time is 10:00am to 12:30pm. Most schools start around 9am, so where is the issue?

    Same with collections, you can take your lunch anytime between 12:30 and 2:30pm. So do the pickup then. If the school pick up is later then 2:30pm, just take a later lunch break. The system allows for staggered lunch breaks and working hours now. If anything, its better then before.

    If you have no one to mind your child during part of the day, clock off and make up those hours when you do, or in the evenings or weekends. Though as far as I am aware childminders and creches are still operating so again, where is the issue? If you were in the office you'd have to arrange childcare.

    Credit for core time for medical appointments was alway allowed. That hasn't changed either.


    Now, its 2:30pm, my lunchbreak is over! So back to work...

    That's all flexitime though and I thought the point of the thread was that flexi was being suspended for some people WFH.


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    #104
    c0rk3r
    Registered Users Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭c0rk3r


    Someone else on boards once said working in the Civil / Public service is the worst job in the best of times and the best job in the worst of times. It just so happens we're in the worst of times.

    I think what people fail to understand is that flexi time is one of the best perks of being in the civil service unless of course you joined pre-2011. The pension is probably a better perk. My perks in the private sector were fantastic, free lunch, free health insurance, paid social events every month, matched pension contributions, bonus, generous pay bumps every year and a paid Christmas party ! obviously the stability is a perk but with 1/2 or 1/3 of the salary as a result. What do you want ? Quality of life or Money? I made my choice.

    Back to the flexi, its something i really miss. I could take a day and a half every month on top of my annual leave. If I played my cards right i could have 43 days annual leave. It was glorious !

    Is there an argument to be made to retain the flexi system whilst working from home ? Yes but its tenuous and i don't imagine it will hold up. Not so long ago there was a circular issued to every department stating regardless if you worked from home or within the office if you travelled abroad outside the green listed countries you must quarantine. So if i worked from home and came back having travelled aboard i cannot work at home even though i'm working from home, i must quarantine and not work. The idea is that those who cannot avail of working from home are treated differently and unfairly. It could be argued that the same is occurring with the flexi system. I wouldn't make that argument but if you wanted to... go ahead.

    There is also hope that the inter-departmental group working on a strategy for working from home will make recommendations to government with regard to retaining the flexi system whilst WFH. We'll have to wait and see with this one.

    Long live the civil service :pac:


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    #105
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    That's all flexitime though and I thought the point of the thread was that flexi was being suspended for some people WFH.

    Only the part about working up time for extra days off has been suspended.


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    #106
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,374 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Tzardine wrote: »
    Jesus OP. Get a grip.

    You are essentially moaning that you can't get your extra day a month off - when you are at home all the time anyway.

    It's not 'an extra day off' as you well know. It is time off to cover additional time already spent at work.


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    #107
    Tzardine
    Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭Tzardine


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    It's not 'an extra day off' as you well know. It is time off to cover additional time already spent at work.

    And "as you well know", people often only spend the additional time at work to build up the day off.


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    #108
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    OP, just explain to your manager that you'd rather not WFH anymore and that you're feeling hard done by because you can't take advantage of flexitime to get an extra day or so off each month. I'm sure they'll understand your predicament.


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    #109
    Samsgirl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,190 ✭✭✭Samsgirl


    Civil Servant here. I spent 20 years in the private sector where I got paid overtime, health care , pension top up, yearly bonus and share options.

    I took a 15k pay drop and lost all the 'privileges' above when I joined the civil service. I joined for job stability and family friendly arrangements. Being in the CS is like the Ryanair of working entitlement. Its stripped back to the bones, yeah in normal times you can earn flexi but you only get what you work up.

    I have no experience other my current CS role and believe me, no one is sitting there doing nothing till 7pm to work up a day and a half off. If you're there, you're working.

    We have a mix of people who split their week between working from home and working in the office and also people full time in the office. Office based staff still have flexi but if you work any part of the flexi period from home you don't have it.

    The people working from home don't have a problem with this as this is their flexible arrangement and its what help them out with childcare etc... If they have an appointment during the work day, they can take it as they aren't stuck to core hours but they still balance their clock at the end of the week.


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    #110
    hamburgham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭hamburgham


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    It's not 'an extra day off' as you well know. It is time off to cover additional time already spent at work.


    That's right, time spent at work but not working. People rush in, almost knock you over to get 'on the clock', then breathe, say hello, take off their coat, get breakfast, put on make up, get changed out of cycling gear, shower, all nice and relaxed as they're now working up time. It's the biggest con ever. Fair enough to those who are genuinely working more than their hours but massively abused.


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    #111
    doc22
    Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭doc22


    hamburgham wrote: »



    That's right, time spent at work but not working. People rush in, almost knock you over to get 'on the clock', then breathe, say hello, take off their coat, get breakfast, put on make up, get changed out of cycling gear etc, nice and relaxed as they're now working up time.It's the biggest con ever. Fair enough to those who are genuinely working more than their hours but massively abused.

    I'd agree, not many are rushing to start work anyway, but as long as they get the work assigned to them done whats the problem.


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    #112
    Samsgirl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,190 ✭✭✭Samsgirl


    hamburgham wrote: »



    That's right, time spent at work but not working. People rush in, almost knock you over to get 'on the clock', then breathe, say hello, take off their coat, get breakfast, put on make up, get changed out of cycling gear etc, nice and relaxed as they're now working up time. It's the biggest con ever. Fair enough to those who are genuinely working more than their hours but massively abused.

    Are there many vacancies in your dept? Sounds like a great place if people can do all that. Wouldn't mind putting it down in my transfer list if it's that good there and ye can do all that. Definitely not the case where I am.


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    #113
    Tzardine
    Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭Tzardine


    Samsgirl wrote: »
    Are there many vacancies in your dept? Sounds like a great place if people can do all that. Wouldn't mind putting it down in my transfer list if it's that good there and ye can do all that. Definitely not the case where I am.

    It is absolutely my experience too. In both places I have worked while in the CS.

    I don't doubt that there are departments such as yours where this genuinely does not happen, but it is happening in the majority of places I suspect.


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    #114
    horsebox7
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭horsebox7


    Should staff be penalised by losing flexi leave for pre existing medical reason?


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    #115
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    horsebox7 wrote: »
    Should staff be penalised by losing flexi leave for pre existing medical reason?
    Give it a rest at this stage... you'll have seen things are gearing up for a new pay agreement, bigger fish to fry than your problem.


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    #116
    Chaos Black
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭Chaos Black


    Tzardine wrote: »
    It is absolutely my experience too. In both places I have worked while in the CS.

    I don't doubt that there are departments such as yours where this genuinely does not happen, but it is happening in the majority of places I suspect.

    My experience to date in the CS is that it pretty much depends on the line manager. Some take a very liberal and flexible approach for a lack of a better way of putting it, others can be very stringent.

    I've certainly had flexibility given to me around the clock for various things, but usually after a relationship is built with the manager and they know I am not taking the proverbial. Works both ways, I have done work through lunches and past office hours without the expectation of having it added on or complaint.

    I have witnessed the not so great paractices of clock abuse, like leaving it on and watching a personal device on a Friday evening when most were gone home. Piss takers in every walk of life imo and usually a manager in the background who would rather avoid conflict then confront it.


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    #117
    Dr Turk Turkelton
    Registered Users Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭Dr Turk Turkelton


    Aglomerado wrote: »
    My flexi is gone since March. I am still recording my time in the system as per instructions. It's balancing out mostly: Some weeks I might put in 36 hours which would mean a deficit, but one or two crazy weeks where I put in 40+ hours due to a deluge of PQs etc. will cancel those out. No set hours but I try to keep normal office hours. Some colleagues make up time at evenings or weekends. I used to always work up at least a day's flexi leave every 4 weeks when I was in the office, but I have no problem losing that working from home; it's too difficult for managers to validate it now.

    Lol at considering 40+ hours to be a crazy week.


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    #118
    Aglomerado
    Registered Users Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭Aglomerado


    Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »
    Lol at considering 40+ hours to be a crazy week.

    I can see how a junior surgeon might think that. Say hi to JD and Dr Kelso for me.;)


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    #119
    Divisadero
    Registered Users Posts: 311 ✭✭Divisadero


    Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »
    Lol at considering 40+ hours to be a crazy week.

    Oh here we go the private sector Dude with the hero complex. Dick measuring contest to see who works the longest hours. Go ahead work yourself into an early grave if it floats your boat. Some of us have different priorites and dare I say better perspective and know what is really important in life. So have a pop if it makes you feel superior. Laugh away. I'm laughing right back at you.


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    #120
    Divisadero
    Registered Users Posts: 311 ✭✭Divisadero


    OP take note:

    https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/583236/department-staff-concerned-over-lack-of-social-distancing-at-limerick-office.html


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    #121
    SouthWesterly
    Registered Users Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    Covidhaveago wrote: »
    No issues here with taking of flexi leave not being allowed while WFH. Most of my direct reports have chosen to take barely any annual leave since lockdown began, imagine its something similar same across the CS.

    We are told to take holidays. Its a h&s requirement.

    No problem with no flexi. Having been in the private sector more of my life than the public I'm happy to have a job.

    I do my hours and clock off. Then I look to my private life 5 minutes later rather than having an hour drive home


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