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rsa supporting e-scooters

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    #32
    DaveyDave
    Registered Users Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    I've seen quite a few around recently but they seem to be pretty slow. Definitely not 25-30kph.

    Don't see an issue with them as long as the person using them isn't a twat. Easier to store and move around than an ebike and a fraction of the cost.

    Seat sell one for €500, could probably get it thrown in for free or massively discounted with a new car. Keep it in the boot, finish the journey by scooter.


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    #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    My main concern about these is infrastructure. They've f all bike lanes in my part of the country and really not an issue for me I'm more than happy to ride the road but I'd say 70% of cyclists here ride the footpath. I'd say the chances of provincial towns getting anything outside of the token lanes to nowhere with new developments is not happening so where do the scooters go ?

    There are 2 lads I see on them locally and they have the routine down of riding the footpath and hopping off to pass people or stopping for on comers.

    These towns would be of a size were traversing them one side to the to the other would be ideal by e scooter 3 or 4km distance but how many would be happy to scoot the road?

    Also the one's I've seen are nowhere close to 30kmph, thats 5 times average walking pace and at best they were doing maybe 15. If I was using one there are a few roads I'd not be happy doing 30kmph on one, instant trip to the hospital if when it goes wrong because of the surface.


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    #34
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,310 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    dastardly00 wrote: »
    What have they got to do with bicycles/cycling? :confused:

    They’ve 2 wheels and use the same limited space


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    #35
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,426 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Used Lime ones a couple of times in Lisbon on cobblestone streets and it was grand, a bit jarring but grand. On a smooth surface it would max out at 23.5 km/h according to the speedo, and it was a sudden loss of acceleration so that was due to a built in speed limiter.

    Edit: maybe not cobblestone but the small individual cube style surface you see all over Europe.


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    #36
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,744 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

    Personally I find them a bit dodgy safety wise. Going along at 28kmh standing straight is much faster than it seems but very easy to lose control. I wouldn't use them on open roads anymore for that reason and see much more prospects in shared (both Dublin bikes type and free standing Uber Jump) or folding ebikes. 28kmh on a heavy bike just feels so much more natural and safe to me than standing on a scooter, and the effort required is minimal.

    In theory, they seem much less stable than a bike, given the smaller wheels and very high and very forward centre of gravity.
    CantGetNoSleep wrote: »
    From a pure sustainability standpoint, I'd love to know how long the average shared scooter survives on the streets. I'm sure it could be measured in weeks

    There was some discussion recently in the media of them working out as more CO2-equivalent-emitting than public transport or a small step-through motorbike(*).


    (*) I guess "moped" or "scooter" is what people would normally say here, but "mopeds" are really something else, and we're now calling these things with small wheels scooters too.


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    #37
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,744 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    It's fascinating to see scooters take up the position in the transport ecosystem that Segways were always hyped up for.


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    #38
    eeeee
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    This is excellent news. I see then all the time, some I know do up to 8k into town and out.
    As they become more common, they'll get people out of cars, they're already getting people of PT.

    I see and ride by them every day on my 40k commute, never had a bother with them. You get arseholes in every form of transport, there's nothing you can do about that.
    But this is an excellent step forward, finally.

    I'd love to get one, but I think they're quite environmentally heavy in their production and materials, like electric cars. And pricey.
    I'd love a go on one!


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    #39
    Moflojo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,006 ✭✭✭Moflojo


    Be very wary of the RSA's approach to e-scooters. They appear to be trying to lobby for the wearing of PPE (helmets & hi-vis) as a condition for using e-scooters.

    This, at the very least, would muddy the waters around the legality of wearing helmets and hi-vis while cycling, and e-scooters could also be used as a sort of Trojan horse by the RSA to get some kind of legislative foothold on mandatory helmets and hi-vis (their wet dream).

    The RSA is fundamentally a victim-blaming organisation when it comes to anyone who doesn't use a car, so watch out.


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    #40
    1bryan
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    Moflojo wrote: »
    Be very wary of the RSA's approach to e-scooters. They appear to be trying to lobby for the wearing of PPE (helmets & hi-vis) as a condition for using e-scooters.

    This, at the very least, would muddy the waters around the legality of wearing helmets and hi-vis while cycling, and e-scooters could also be used as a sort of Trojan horse by the RSA to get some kind of legislative foothold on mandatory helmets and hi-vis (their wet dream).

    not necessarily. What's interesting for me about this is what our experiences of e-scooters will be when we enter the dark winter months. A mounted light on the front will be at about waist height, which is fine. A rear mounted light will be about 3 inches from the ground, which isn't fine. I'm assuming that's why they're touting mandatory hi-viz wearing. Comparing visibility of e-scooters with bicycles is not comparing like with like.

    Personally I'd rather these things weren't on the road, and I'd like to see more enforcement while they're illegal. However, were they made legal, I'm sure we'll all adapt to their presence in the cycle lanes. I've had bad experiences with some users, but that's no different to any other form of transport. And, I'm guessing they have limited enough range? Those of us with a >10km commute to the city won't encounter too many until the final kms of our journey. I haven't seen too many outside of the city, as of yet, anyway.


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    #41
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,289 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i wouldn't be surprised to learn that they fill a gap in a commute where the walk would be too long for some people, but the cycle would be too short.
    And also where our lack of secure bicycle parking facilities is an issue, it isn't for a scooter.


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    #42
    Explosive_Cornflake
    Registered Users Posts: 2,110 ✭✭✭Explosive_Cornflake


    average_runner wrote: »
    They go up to 30k, which is the speed limit around the city in most spots, so that's grand.

    Speed limit for motorized vehicles. I believe it doesn't apply to self propelled


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    #43
    steamsey
    Registered Users Posts: 686 ✭✭✭steamsey


    1bryan wrote: »
    not necessarily. What's interesting for me about this is what our experiences of e-scooters will be when we enter the dark winter months. A mounted light on the front will be at about waist height, which is fine. A rear mounted light will be about 3 inches from the ground, which isn't fine. I'm assuming that's why they're touting mandatory hi-viz wearing. Comparing visibility of e-scooters with bicycles is not comparing like with like.

    Personally I'd rather these things weren't on the road, and I'd like to see more enforcement while they're illegal. However, were they made legal, I'm sure we'll all adapt to their presence in the cycle lanes. I've had bad experiences with some users, but that's no different to any other form of transport. And, I'm guessing they have limited enough range? Those of us with a >10km commute to the city won't encounter too many until the final kms of our journey. I haven't seen too many outside of the city, as of yet, anyway.

    On lights - I suppose you could attach a rear light to your person / your bag.

    Will be interesting to see how many are being used daily over the dark winter months. I can't get past the wheel size - how stable can they be if you hit a bad patch of road / debris. Can you swerve without wobbling? Any e-scooter commuters here that have a view?

    I'm in favour of them generally, not going to get one, but anything that gives people back time that's saved from not sitting in a car, on a bus etc is a positive step in my view. Great opportunity to do something here and free up some of the city centre gridlock and get people out in the fresh air.


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    #44
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Anus Von Skidmark wrote: »
    The ones I see going around Dublin aren't going anywhere near 30Kph - I don't think I've ever seen one keeping pace with bike traffic.


    They don't have to go at the speed limit when the limit is 30k. Cars around Dublin don't keep up with bike traffic either.


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    #45
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Explosive_Cornflake wrote: »
    Speed limit for motorized vehicles. I believe it doesn't apply to self propelled

    But the scooters are motorized, hence my point


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    #46
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    And also where our lack of secure bicycle parking facilities is an issue, it isn't for a scooter.

    Yep that is the big advantage of scooters, can bring them into the office and charge them at your desk!


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    #47
    DaveyDave
    Registered Users Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    Explosive_Cornflake wrote: »
    Speed limit for motorized vehicles. I believe it doesn't apply to self propelled

    All the ones I've seen are motorised, unless there's a grey area where self propelled means kicking off to start.


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    #48
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,880 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Moflojo wrote: »
    Be very wary of the RSA's approach to e-scooters. They appear to be trying to lobby for the wearing of PPE (helmets & hi-vis) as a condition for using e-scooters.

    This, at the very least, would muddy the waters around the legality of wearing helmets and hi-vis while cycling, and e-scooters could also be used as a sort of Trojan horse by the RSA to get some kind of legislative foothold on mandatory helmets and hi-vis (their wet dream).

    The RSA is fundamentally a victim-blaming organisation when it comes to anyone who doesn't use a car, so watch out.

    Already have.
    Moya Murdock stated this on RTE Radio 1 yesterday afternoon. The Drivetime show
    https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/11081131
    from 11min25seconds to 18min45seconds


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    #49
    Explosive_Cornflake
    Registered Users Posts: 2,110 ✭✭✭Explosive_Cornflake


    average_runner wrote: »
    But the scooters are motorized, hence my point

    I took it up wrong. My point was that it doesn't apply to cycling.
    but I see i misread your post.
    You are correct of course.


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    #50
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,482 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    https://twitter.com/DublinVelo2019/status/1166970294155829248


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    #51
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Already have.
    Moya Murdock stated this on RTE Radio 1 yesterday afternoon. The Drivetime show
    https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/11081131
    from 11min25seconds to 18min45seconds

    I listened to this, and thought a couple of things were off. One was that cyclist over taking over cyclists was an issue...? I assume this was either a slip or the mindset of keeping cyclist in the cycle lane and not allowed in the "car lane". There were a couple of times I thought that. But some of the points where they applied solely to eScooters were valid I though.

    Moflojo wrote: »
    Be very wary of the RSA's approach to e-scooters. They appear to be trying to lobby for the wearing of PPE (helmets & hi-vis) as a condition for using e-scooters.

    This, at the very least, would muddy the waters around the legality of wearing helmets and hi-vis while cycling, and e-scooters could also be used as a sort of Trojan horse by the RSA to get some kind of legislative foothold on mandatory helmets and hi-vis (their wet dream).

    The RSA is fundamentally a victim-blaming organisation when it comes to anyone who doesn't use a car, so watch out.

    Agreed.

    I get the impression they want to protect cars from everyone else, and completely opposed to any change in the status quo, where cars are not priority.
    In my opinion part of that is promoting limitations to alternative forms of transport, that prevent wide spread adoption.

    I could be entirely wrong, but that just the impression (perhaps incorrectly) that I get from them.


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    #52
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Moflojo wrote: »
    Be very wary of the RSA's approach to e-scooters. They appear to be trying to lobby for the wearing of PPE (helmets & hi-vis) as a condition for using e-scooters.

    This, at the very least, would muddy the waters around the legality of wearing helmets and hi-vis while cycling, and e-scooters could also be used as a sort of Trojan horse by the RSA to get some kind of legislative foothold on mandatory helmets and hi-vis (their wet dream).

    The RSA is fundamentally a victim-blaming organisation when it comes to anyone who doesn't use a car, so watch out.

    I cannot imagine that anyone, neighbours or otherwise, would benefit from such a recommendation becoming law :eek:


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    #53
    droidus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭droidus


    They're annoying at times, but no worse than slow or inexperienced cyclists.

    the positive is that they contribute to a critical mass of non-car transport, so the more the better afaic.


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    #54
    MojoMaker
    Registered Users Posts: 4,567 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    I'm not sure. The current cohort of scooter-users in Dublin at least appear to be folks that don't or can't own a car, not car-owners that have made a choice to use an e-scoot. if anything I think the e-scoot is being used as an alternative to public transport (which is understandable), or Dublin Bikes for example

    Maybe that will change.


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    #55
    Grassey
    Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Grassey


    1bryan wrote: »
    Those of us with a >10km commute to the city won't encounter too many until the final kms of our journey. I haven't seen too many outside of the city, as of yet, anyway.

    Plenty out in Sandyford, was leapfrogging a girl on a xiaomi m365 scooter for best part of 12km cycle home a few weeks back. Pretty much rubbished my mental argument that it was too far for a scooter and I should cycle everyday....


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    #56
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    dastardly00 wrote: »
    What have they got to do with bicycles/cycling? :confused:
    As there is even talk of them being permitted on footpaths (at low speed) then I reckon it is safe to say they will be permitted on cycletracks, so definitely relevant to this forum. Users tend to stick to the centre and are darting about dodging terrible conditions, so makes passing difficult. They also tend not to look behind them, so are unaware of people behind, I imagine it is much harder to turn your head safely than if you were on a bike. I can see myself ditching the cycletracks and sticking to the roads if these become more popular. In Germany they were recently regulated and there are plenty of problems, the limit there is 20km/hr.


    DaveyDave wrote: »
    All the ones I've seen are motorised, unless there's a grey area where self propelled means kicking off to start.
    There is no grey area, the conmen selling them may tell you its a grey area, one cheeky place actually paid a law firm to confirm they are legal!!

    The people who knowingly bought them and those duped into buying them also like to perpetuate this grey area myth. So much so that both the gardai and RSA had to make statments confirming that the use is illegal.

    There was a video of a guy caught who lied to the gardai and the gardai were actually duped into believing that they were legal -so some will use that as evidence of them being legal!

    If this was a grey area lads with 1000cc motorbikes would just get them modified to need a push start -none of the "grey area" brigade ever give a good answer to that.


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    #57
    Mickiemcfist
    Registered Users Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭Mickiemcfist


    Well it's a grey area in the same sense that 15 years ago driving unaccompanied with an L plate was a grey area, it was illegal it just wasn't enforced.


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    #58
    TheShow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,157 ✭✭✭TheShow


    If i'm not mistaken the "grey area" related more to the law that permits use of electric bicycles and the argument is that escooters should be classed the same.

    The issue with the law is that there is no law to accommodate them, so they are technically illegal. Which is still illegal whether enforced or not.

    I'm not opposed to them, butit will be interesting to see how this plays out. Will they impose a licence, motor tax and insurance requirement?


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    #59
    work
    Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭work


    On my route they cause no significant problems and I welcome people off private or public transport for all our air.

    Regarding legality the sheer number of them sets a sort of pressure to legalise them, the Garda are aware the laws follow at a snail pace so will probably just await laws or proper direction.


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    #60
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,140 ✭✭✭plodder


    A scooter isn't a bicycle though, so I don't see how e-bike rules could apply. That said, they'll have to be legalised and regulated imo. I've never had any interest in e-bikes, but I'd definitely consider one of these if I was commuting by bus or train with a significant walk at either end. On how to regulate: I wonder would it make sense to let them use cycle lanes, but make them use pedestrian crossings (unpowered) at junctions? Just an idea as I've had limited interaction with them.


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    #61
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,310 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    work wrote: »
    On my route they cause no significant problems and I welcome people off private or public transport for all our air.

    Regarding legality the sheer number of them sets a sort of pressure to legalise them, the Garda are aware the laws follow at a snail pace so will probably just await laws or proper direction.

    There’s more junkies in town. Should the Gardai take the same approach?

    In the past few weeks There’s also being 1 death in the UK and 2 in France where the person was riding a scooter


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