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"Everyday Racism"

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    #632
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    DulchieLaois wrote: »
    I feel that this current issue in the USA is warranted but a few things bug me.

    I am not racist.

    1. All lives matter, shouldn’t be focused upon one race
    2. What happened in Dublin yesterday is a joke, can we focused on issues that affect Ireland like Health and Homelessness and have a protest rather than something in another country.
    3. There are videos being shared on social media by kids of African American descent portraying guards as being bad ass and heavy handed, and yet I never see any other race like Chinese or Eastern European doing this,I feel that this is an area that is be exploited and an dangerous precedent.

    I also find that many people are cautious and are afraid to speak out without being targeted.

    This is all about everyone, not just one.

    And the same thing happened to a white man in 2016. Killed by a cop pinning him to the ground.

    https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investigations/2019/07/31/you-re-gonna-kill-me-dallas-police-body-cam-footage-reveals-the-final-minutes-of-tony-timpa-s-life/


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    #633
    Nesta2018
    Closed Accounts Posts: 53 ✭✭Nesta2018


    A few months ago, a garda had his head stamped on during an altercation with a large group of African origin young people who were causing mayhem in Drogheda.

    "I f**king love my young drillers. Good enough for em f**ing pigs. Fckkkkk these guys are dumb. They done skiddy bop on the pigs head”

    Has Ellie anything to say about these vulnerable young souls?

    https://www.thesun.ie/news/4427353/footage-garda-beaten-teenage-drogheda/


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    #634
    BarnardsLoop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 193 ✭✭BarnardsLoop


    DulchieLaois wrote: »
    1. All lives matter

    No one has said they don't. The point is that in the US, it's become quite clear that black people's lives matter less than others.
    shouldn’t be focused upon one race

    When one race is disproportionately murdered by US police, it should be.
    2. What happened in Dublin yesterday is a joke, can we focused on issues that affect Ireland like Health and Homelessness and have a protest rather than something in another country.

    No one's stopping you and your cohorts protesting whatever you want, you know. Off you go.
    3. There are videos being shared on social media by kids of African American descent portraying guards as being bad ass and heavy handed, and yet I never see any other race like Chinese or Eastern European doing this,I feel that this is an area that is be exploited and an dangerous precedent.

    "I've never seen it therefore it doesn't exist." What a bizarre and stupid point.
    I also find that many people are cautious and are afraid to speak out without being targeted.

    He says, after speaking out in a thread full of people speaking out that shouts down anyone daring to raise an opinion that differs. :pac:
    This is all about everyone, not just one.

    You're right, it isn't about one, it's about the systematic targeting of black people in the US by its police forces.

    Anyone can point to instances of white people in the US being killed but they're far and away less common.


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    #635
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    BarnardsLoop wrote: »
    ... it's about the systematic targeting of black people in the US by its police forces.

    Is that what you meant to say ?


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    #636
    gw80
    Registered Users Posts: 1,013 ✭✭✭gw80


    I dont know,
    Has anyone stopped to think for a minute that maybe multiculturism just doesnt work,
    I mean, they say its a great thing but if it was such a good thing then why is it so hard to make it work?
    Laws have to be made, and punishments dished out .
    And it seems that white europeans seem to be the only race of people who want to promote the dilution of their race, the chinese have no interest, the japanese, asians, africans, middle easterns, none of them have any interest in multiculturism, but europeans cant seem to disolve their ethnicity fast enought,
    Funny that.


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    #637
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BarnardsLoop wrote: »

    You're right, it isn't about one, it's about the systematic targeting of black people in the US by its police forces.

    Anyone can point to instances of white people in the US being killed but they're far and away less common.
    Seriously? The guy was a criminal under arrest for committing a crime. That is not systematic targeting of black people. Ot in no way justifys killing the man. Cop will be tried for murder, same as if he killed a white man.

    See the link above where the same thing happened to a white man, suffocated while pinned to the ground.

    It's the mere fact that it was a black man that makes it different that doesnt sit right.


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    #638
    DulchieLaois
    Registered Users Posts: 466 ✭✭DulchieLaois


    Bernardsloop, u need to get on social video and see the videos that are happening in Ireland or do you want to be all talk for a specific cause and not for everyone....pathetic response

    No point responding and detailing every point

    Re white person killed by police

    https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investigations/2019/07/31/you-re-gonna-kill-me-dallas-police-body-cam-footage-reveals-the-final-minutes-of-tony-timpa-s-life/

    Tell me, have you thought about the surpressed people in Burma ?
    Native Americans ?
    Hong Kong ?

    Didn’t think so......you need to think of every person in society, otherwise, I would consider you to be racist


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    #639
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The other thing that doesnt sit right is the solution is to discriminate against white people. For example a percentage of college places are given to black people. That's a person of another ethnicity be it white, Hispanic, Asian whatever doesnt get a place in college because of their race. They have to give their place to someone merely because they are black.

    Black people are entitled and justified to protest. But white people and business owners being looted are entitled to defend themselves without being called racist. White Cops are entitled to beat the **** out of black thugs without being called a racist. They are entitled to shoot a black person dead without being called a racist. A white person is entitled to criticise a black person without being called a racist. I am entitled to oppose immigration without being called a racist.

    This whole "woke" movement is an absolute joke and deserves to be ridiculed.


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    #640
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The other thing that doesnt sit right is the solution is to discriminate against white people. For example a percentage of college places are given to black people. That's a person of another ethnicity be it white, Hispanic, Asian whatever doesnt get a place in college because of their race. They have to give their place to someone merely because they are black.

    Black people are entitled and justified to protest. But white people and business owners being looted are entitled to defend themselves without being called racist. White Cops are entitled to beat the **** out of black thugs without being called a racist. They are entitled to shoot a black person dead without being called a racist. A white person is entitled to criticise a black person without being called a racist. I am entitled to oppose immigration without being called a racist.

    This whole "woke" movement is an absolute joke and deserves to be ridiculed.

    Just like I am entitled to take the above post and conclude that you are a racist.

    Cops can just shoot at unarmed black men and women willy nilly can they? That’s part of the problem.

    All lives matter, but how are they going to matter when it’s blatantly clear that black lives aren’t on the same pedestal as others?

    The problem with Ireland isn’t that it’s blatantly racist, the racists take the guise of concerned citizens who are peacefully trying to raise a point of discussion, and those same people will argue a toss instead of actually discussing in good faith.


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    #641
    DulchieLaois
    Registered Users Posts: 466 ✭✭DulchieLaois


    why don’t we protest for

    Rohingya Muslims in Burma
    Russian occupancy of Ukraine region
    Hong Kong people being suppressed by China
    Catholics in Northern Ireland occupied by UK

    Christ, there’s a long list, #alllivesmatter


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    #642
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    DulchieLaois wrote: »
    why don’t we protest for

    Rohingya Muslims in Burma
    Russian occupancy of Ukraine region
    Hong Kong people being suppressed by China
    Catholics in Northern Ireland occupied by UK

    Christ, there’s a long list, #alllivesmatter

    Off you go then.


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    #643
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Faugheen wrote: »
    Just like I am entitled to take the above post and conclude that you are a racist.

    Cops can just shoot at unarmed black men and women willy nilly can they? That’s part of the problem.

    All lives matter, but how are they going to matter when it’s blatantly clear that black lives aren’t on the same pedestal as others?

    The problem with Ireland isn’t that it’s blatantly racist, the racists take the guise of concerned citizens who are peacefully trying to raise a point of discussion, and those same people will argue a toss instead of actually discussing in good faith.
    No you're not, that's my point. You cant just give yourself the right to label someone a racist. Racism is actually a crime and needs to be proven. Everyone can read my post and your interpretation and see they are clearly not the same. I didn't actually post what you say I post so your accusation against.me is actually a lie. You're lying and making me out to be racist when I'm not. You're a sad pathetic fool.


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    #644
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    BarnardsLoop wrote: »
    No one has said they don't. The point is that in the US, it's become quite clear that black people's lives matter less than others.

    It could be argued that their lives matter more than other minorities. Since the Hispanic community is also the recipient of policy brutality, but the Black community receives more media attention.
    When one race is disproportionately murdered by US police, it should be.

    Questions of all types should be raised.

    Black people are the recipients of more attention by the police due to population, culture, crime, and racism. While there is racism involved (in many cases), it's not helping anyone to ignore that Black groups, especially those involved in gangs, place themselves in dangerous positions. Your objection is simply lumping all deaths together without consideration of the context, and the actions of those involved.

    The US needs reform. But not just with the Police, but also the cultural frameworks that currently exist for everyone. Everyone.. because then, it won't be a matter of racism anymore, but about creating an equal society. Not boosting one group over another due to pressure or guilt.
    He says, after speaking out in a thread full of people speaking out that shouts down anyone daring to raise an opinion that differs. :pac:

    It's a discussion board, so people come here expecting to find differing opinions. And very few posters on this thread have been shouted down... their arguments might have been demolished but that's a different thing entirely.
    You're right, it isn't about one, it's about the systematic targeting of black people in the US by its police forces.

    Floyd was targeted for using counterfeit money or because he was black? It was the shopkeeper who reported him.. so.. was the shopkeeper racist too then? The police were racist for responding to the shopkeepers call?

    Or simply that he broke the law, and his race wasn't an issue until the arrest and the subsequent murder? And yes, I do think it was murder.. at the same time though, I'm not interested in whitewashing what led up to it.
    Anyone can point to instances of white people in the US being killed but they're far and away less common.

    Mix of years: https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

    2019: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/police-shootings-2019/

    Care to revise your statement, or do you have some better links to prove your assertion? I've found a variety of sites. Different numbers, but all of them have a higher number of whites being killed by police, than black people killed by police.


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    #645
    DulchieLaois
    Registered Users Posts: 466 ✭✭DulchieLaois


    Faugheen wrote: »
    Off you go then.

    Lol, my comment was those who were protesting yesterday and those who are planning for Galway ?


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    #646
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    Faugheen wrote: »
    Just like I am entitled to take the above post and conclude that you are a racist.

    Cops can just shoot at unarmed black men and women willy nilly can they? That’s part of the problem.

    All lives matter, but how are they going to matter when it’s blatantly clear that black lives aren’t on the same pedestal as others?

    The problem with Ireland isn’t that it’s blatantly racist, the racists take the guise of concerned citizens who are peacefully trying to raise a point of discussion, and those same people will argue a toss instead of actually discussing in good faith.

    you seem to be concluding that anyone that doesn't 100 percent agree with you is a racist. lot of that going on here .

    the vast majority of police shootings in the US result in large scale investigations usually resulting in prosecutions. even where it was proven to be a legal shooting the innocent cop ends up destroyed , ie mike brown

    again the huge amount of black on black murders and lack of cooperation with police results in a lower rate of convictions .


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    #647
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Faugheen wrote: »
    The problem with Ireland isn’t that it’s blatantly racist, the racists take the guise of concerned citizens who are peacefully trying to raise a point of discussion, and those same people will argue a toss instead of actually discussing in good faith.

    So... in your opinion, am I racist for discussing this issue on boards? Am I arguing in good faith?

    I'll just assume you've managed to read some of my posts to this thread.


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    #648
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    you seem to be concluding that anyone that doesn't 100 percent agree with you is a racist. lot of that going on here .

    the vast majority of police shootings in the US result in large scale investigations usually resulting in prosecutions. even where it was proven to be a legal shooting the innocent cop ends up destroyed , ie mike brown

    again the huge amount of black on black murders and lack of cooperation with police results in a lower rate of convictions .

    +1 , US police kill more white people every year, in proportionality to the amount of black people they kill when weighted against poverty. America has a problem with poor people committing crime and police killing them, not based on race.


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    #649
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    I think we need to stop the zero sum bull****, condemn racism in all its forms. We need to start calling out those who look to pit one side against the other and call them on it, we should also call out those who use the current situation to get away with bad behavior.

    It shouldn't be a case of someone wins and someone looses we should all win. We have to get to a position of compromise and mutual understanding for that to happen.


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    #650
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,844 ✭✭✭enricoh


    double jobbing wrote: »
    If 16% are unemployed, and 45 percent are working, what is the status of the other 39%

    Virtually none are elderly, and children can't make up all of them, most of them are probably Irish citizens.

    Disability allowance is where it's at, jobs seekers allowance and sent off on some stupid course or else 20hrs on some Mickey mouse scheme is for suckers.


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    #651
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    +1 , US police kill more white people every year, in proportionality to the amount of black people they kill when weighted against poverty. America has a problem with poor people committing crime and police killing them, not based on race.

    ahhh... nah... race is definitely a factor for some. For others, it's the circumstances of the cases.

    This is the problem really. Assigning an absolute to it. That everything was correct, or that everything was racist.

    Truth is, there's both. Responsibility for the current situation needs to be shared among the Police, the various governors/administrations, and the minority populations. There's a lot of enabling of crime going on in the States. It's been that way for decades... but so too has there been a lot of mismanagement or discrimination against Minority communities with investment being drawn away from them...


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    #652
    DelaneyIn
    Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭DelaneyIn


    Gardaí are investigating Monday’s Black Lives Matter protest in Dublin with a view to potentially prosecuting organisers for their role in such a large public gathering during the Covid-19 lockdown.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda%C3%AD-investigate-dublin-black-lives-matter-protest-over-covid-19-rule-breach-1.4268919

    They should cancel the COVID-19 payment of the people involved in this protest. Trying to show solitary to people in another country while giving zero ****s about their own. Very smart.


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    #653
    Gradius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Gradius


    There comes a certain point where you just go back to basics.

    All these increasingly complicated and unworkable "solutions" to having crowds of different people forced into living with each other don't...work!

    I'm sure many people have rented shared accommodation at one point or another, and have had to deal with housemates that were a pain in the arse. The conclusion was always the same, you go, or they go.

    To extend into analogy, imagine the landlord instructing the tenants about words they can and can't use, food they can and cannot eat, ideas they can and cannot express, traditions they must and must not accept...nightmare for everyone.

    End of story. That's the solution that works. Everything else is a fruitless exercise in irritation for all concerned.


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    #654
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Segregation has proven time and time again that it does not work, silo'ing communities just makes the barriers worse.

    Mixing people together is the way to go however, what we have seen for the most part has been poor implementation. If you don't have a set rules for living together in a harmony and don't reinforce them you just end up causing a bigger problem.


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    #655
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Calhoun wrote: »
    Segregation has proven time and time again that it does not work, silo'ing communities just makes the barriers worse.

    Mixing people together is the way to go however, what we have seen for the most part has been poor implementation. If you don't have a set rules for living together in a harmony and don't reinforce them you just end up causing a bigger problem.

    And how do you enforce the rules without being accused of racism.


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    #656
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Deleted User wrote: »
    And how do you enforce the rules without being accused of racism.

    That is why you need to basically call bull**** on people using a race card to excuse bad behavior.


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    #657
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    And how do you enforce the rules without being accused of racism.

    I was wondering that too.

    Black communities grow because Black people prefer to live among other black people. Regardless of whether there is actual racism in other areas, they're often very community driven, which lessens the desire to expand into other areas. Same with Hispanics. There will be individuals who break the cultural norm, but, you see it abroad too. Black people tend to live near other black people, whenever they're a minority. It's very much the case in Asia with the Black communities in cities.


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    #658
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Calhoun wrote: »
    That is why you need to basically call bull**** on people using a race card to excuse bad behavior.

    Yeah, but isn't the point to prevent segregation or islands of racial groups? It's not really about bad behavior as such. It's just that there tends to negative results when such is commonplace in a nation.


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    #659
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yeah, but isn't the point to prevent segregation or islands of racial groups? It's not really about bad behavior as such. It's just that there tends to negative results when such is commonplace in a nation.

    Well that is what i meant that you mix groups together, my main thing about behavior was to the point that it doesn't work because of negative consequences.


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    #660
    Gradius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Gradius


    Calhoun wrote: »
    Segregation has proven time and time again that it does not work, silo'ing communities just makes the barriers worse.

    Mixing people together is the way to go however, what we have seen for the most part has been poor implementation. If you don't have a set rules for living together in a harmony and don't reinforce them you just end up causing a bigger problem.

    I see the point your making, but people want to group together. It's a natural inclination and nothing will ever change that.

    But beyond that, I think it has never been more evident worldwide that mixing people together does not work.

    Instead of worrying yourself to death as to how to move a whale into your home and build an aquarium and where will you get food and how will you afford it and what if it gets sick and....just don't get a whale. "Problem" solved. Look at the bigger picture of the origin of your "problem".

    Instead of trying in vain to force people to get along with each other, don't bring in outside people.

    This goes as equally for Ireland as it does for South Africa. People self-divided over vast amounts of time through misery and violence to create countries in which to live together with people they want to live with in somewhat harmony.

    Undoing that is trouble with a capital T, exemplified right now by the United States.

    It will never be any more simple than this nor complicated than this. The whole thing is an artificial problem that was created out of thin air, there's nothing natural about it.


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    #661
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    gw80 wrote: »
    I dont know,
    Has anyone stopped to think for a minute that maybe multiculturism just doesnt work,
    I mean, they say its a great thing but if it was such a good thing then why is it so hard to make it work?
    Laws have to be made, and punishments dished out .
    And it seems that white europeans seem to be the only race of people who want to promote the dilution of their race, the chinese have no interest, the japanese, asians, africans, middle easterns, none of them have any interest in multiculturism, but europeans cant seem to disolve their ethnicity fast enought,
    Funny that.

    You won't see many complaining in China that the government isn't diversified enough.


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