Gordon Elliott

dohboy · 01-03-2021 11:55am

Sean Worried Memory wrote: »

You are spectacularly missing the point. The existence of the sport on the level it is at does not depend on casual fans, or those currently involved. It relies on advertising, betting and massive government funding. The existence of which, aside from betting, is almost wholly dependent on the public reputation of the sport.

I'm aware I could be entirely wrong, but that's how I think this will go. If there was systematic abuse of animals uncovered, yes this would have huge fallout. But a moment of idiocy like this, I don't think so. Lots of people think racing is bent and cruel already, it doesn't stop advertising or government support. It's an industry and is viewed differently.

nsnoefc1878 · 01-03-2021 11:57am

Sean Worried Memory wrote: »

Horrific stuff, should get a massive ban. Hard to believe it took him 24 hours to come up with that 'excuse'.

Almost as bad is the reaction from the "storm in a teacup" crowd who are pushing a line of thought roughly along the lines of 'sure its grand to sit on a live horse, this one was dead, whats the big deal?', which is approaching the argument made by animal rights activists in the first place, that horse racing is cruel. Genius stuff. There is a major opportunity for animal rights activists here, particularly if animals have to be destroyed, which they will, over the course of the festival. No advertiser will want to be associated with a sport where one of the leading lights exercised a horse to death, then posed with the body in a joking manner. This is how it will be portrayed, that horses are not treated properly and that the lamentations from 'connections' when an animal has to be destroyed is just bullsh!t, and with a picture like this it makes it a thousand times harder to argue back against this without looking like a savage, especially if in the same breath you're saying Elliott should not be annihilated for this. The main argument against animal rights activists regarding horse deaths is essentially that everyone is broken-hearted when a horse dies. Everyone knows this is not true, that many are matter-of-fact about it, but now there is clear evidence that a leading trainer, and his staff, don't give a damn and think it's funny.

Also of note was the massive effort from some to say that the picture was fake, and now say that his "excuse" explains it away. People like Elliott would not give the average punter a glass of water, the servile boot-licking is rather pathetic.

For the good of the sport Elliott should go, or be removed.

As an aside, the fact that Elliott, or other trainers, are even allowed be associated with betting companies is farcical.

His excuse is almost as bad, he clearing isnt gesturing to his colleague to wait, hes making a peace sign. The fact he cant man up and stand behind his reprehensible actions shows what a piece of garbage he is.
Hope he dies roaring.

piplip87 · 01-03-2021 11:57am

dohboy wrote: »

It'll blow over. Yes there's reputational damage to racing, but people outside racing probably think this kinda stuff goes on all the time tbh. Racing people will be upset and disappointed but they will rally around the sport. Would a causal fan be turned off the odd punt of the occasional days racing because of this? Not a hope. It'll certainly enliven those who believe racing is cruel anyway, but it's not like they are ever going to be won over.

Elliott will have to get some sort of punishment for PR reasons, but he'll be back and everyone in the sport will be joking about this in six months.

Yes but if your horse is with Elliott and he gets a 6 month ban and misses Cheltenham, Aintree and Punchestown this year do you keep the horse with him.

I have no doubt he will be back in 6 months but what horses will he still have. It could be the incident that O'Leary needs increase the speed of his departure. I'm sure Chevely got involved in NH racing for festival winners, if Elliott cannot provide that this year would they hang on?

This has all the hallmarks of a hit job I'd wouldnt be surprised if more stuff came out

nsnoefc1878 · 01-03-2021 11:59am

Mimon wrote: »

Putting aside how serious or not it is the excuse is ridiculous. You get a call and you sit down on a dead animal? FFS!

He would have been better to come out and said it was a stupid moment of tomfoolery and it does not represent how he respects his animals etc.

And a peace sign, one of the worlds most recgonised hand gestures, is now a sign telling someone to wait?
Hes vermin, a waste of oxygen.

The Mig · 01-03-2021 12:00pm

If anyone thinks this is a non story or a storm in a teacup, here’s what one of his fellow trainers thinks about it

https://twitter.com/giffordnick/status/1366335867095252993?s=21

nsnoefc1878 · 01-03-2021 12:02pm

dohboy wrote: »

It'll blow over. Yes there's reputational damage to racing, but people outside racing probably think this kinda stuff goes on all the time tbh. Racing people will be upset and disappointed but they will rally around the sport. Would a causal fan be turned off the odd punt of the occasional days racing because of this? Not a hope. It'll certainly enliven those who believe racing is cruel anyway, but it's not like they are ever going to be won over.

Elliott will have to get some sort of punishment for PR reasons, but he'll be back and everyone in the sport will be joking about this in six months.

If so, what does that say about everyone in the sport?

StupidLikeAFox · 01-03-2021 12:03pm

Is there an accusation of cruelty here? Or is it just "man caught acting the maggot on a dead horse".

If its the former then he is in trouble. If its the latter then people will be outraged for a while, the authorities might give him a slap on the wrist for optics - but can't see anybody in the industry being too upset that he didn't take off his cap and shed a few tears. I'm sure he has seen thousands of dead horses in his time - its just a fact of life for these lads surely and not as if he was straddling someone's coffin

Augme · 01-03-2021 12:03pm

His fellow trainers will sense the blood in the water. Great opportunity to get rid of one of their biggest rivals.

EICVD · 01-03-2021 12:04pm

nsnoefc1878 wrote: »

His excuse is almost as bad, he clearing isnt gesturing to his colleague to wait, hes making a peace sign. The fact he cant man up and stand behind his reprehensible actions shows what a piece of garbage he is.
Hope he dies roaring.

Hope he dies roaring? I think we’ve found the most over reacting comment on the situation

th hen · 01-03-2021 12:06pm

Had few horses in training with him. Found him an ignorant ....., would never get involved in a horse with him again even before this. Lots of rumours floating around about activities taking place in his stables and love life etc. Nothing as dangerous as a scourned woman lol

Plasandrunt · 01-03-2021 12:07pm

who has Gordon rumoured to have got pregnant? I presume it's not for a public board so would appreciate a PM

Earendil · 01-03-2021 12:07pm

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Is there an accusation of cruelty here? Or is it just "man caught acting the maggot on a dead horse".

If its the former then he is in trouble. If its the latter then people will be outraged for a while, the authorities might give him a slap on the wrist for optics - but can't see anybody in the industry being too upset that he didn't take off his cap and shed a few tears. I'm sure he has seen thousands of dead horses in his time - its just a fact of life for these lads surely and not as if he was straddling someone's coffin

Don't think anyone was asking for that. Just don't straddle the poor dead beast and make a jokey picture out of it. Not that complicated really.

greyday · 01-03-2021 12:07pm

There was no cruelty here, a spur of the moment foolish act is no where near cruelty, he would not have the winners he has if he was in any way cruel to his horses.
The person that released this photo just before Cheltenham rather than at the time of the incident should have a good look in the mirror as it looks to have been calculated to do the utmost damage to his reputation, why not release it at the time?

dohboy · 01-03-2021 12:07pm

piplip87 wrote: »

This has all the hallmarks of a hit job I'd wouldnt be surprised if more stuff came out

It's definitely a former close confidante who has fallen out with Elliott. Stuff coming out about his stables bar and other WhatsApp gossip is a sign of that.

EICVD · 01-03-2021 12:10pm

I don’t know who’s worse, the ‘no big deal’ crowd or the ‘lifetime ban’ crowd. No doubt about it it was a disgusting photo & some punishment is fair. Look who he trains for, JP, Gigginstown, Robcour, Cheveley Park, Munir, McNeill, even the likes of Bartlett & this new guy Andrew Brown, if half of those now say ‘Sorry Gordon, we don’t trust you anymore’ that’s enough of a punishment.

nsnoefc1878 · 01-03-2021 12:10pm

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Is there an accusation of cruelty here? Or is it just "man caught acting the maggot on a dead horse".

That is cruelty, there is no 'or'.

th hen · 01-03-2021 12:11pm

dohboy wrote: »

It's definitely a former close confidante who has fallen out with Elliott. Stuff coming out about his stables bar and other WhatsApp gossip is a sign of that.

Lots of rumours and whatsapps around of what's going on. Prob find them online

EICVD · 01-03-2021 12:12pm

th hen wrote: »

Had few horses in training with him. Found him an ignorant ....., would never get involved in a horse with him again even before this. Lots of rumours floating around about activities taking place in his stables and love life etc. Nothing as dangerous as a scourned woman lol

Was involved with a few syndicates there, soon as young Murphy left to train himself they didn’t give a **** about the syndicates.

Motivator · 01-03-2021 12:13pm

piplip87 wrote: »

This has all the hallmarks of a hit job I'd wouldnt be surprised if more stuff came out

Absolutely it is and by all accounts there’s more coming. There’s plenty of rumours going around the last six weeks about who it’s suspected to be, we could be looking at two seriously ruined reputations sooner rather than later.

Whatever the fallout of this, it won’t be pretty.

nsnoefc1878 · 01-03-2021 12:14pm

EICVD wrote: »

Hope he dies roaring? I think we’ve found the most over reacting comment on the situation

Glad you think so.

wardides · 01-03-2021 12:15pm

greyday wrote: »

There was no cruelty here, a spur of the moment foolish act is no where near cruelty, he would not have the winners he has if he was in any way cruel to his horses.
The person that released this photo just before Cheltenham rather than at the time of the incident should have a good look in the mirror as it looks to have been calculated to do the utmost damage to his reputation, why not release it at the time?

The horse is dead. He died on the gallops. That is the cruelty element to the outside viewer looking in. He's basically putting the 2 fingers up at the response from the industry which is generally that these horses are treated with utmost respect & care (which I do believe majority are).

The numbers of winners he has, or anybody has, should also not be used as leverage as to how much welfare is shown to his animals. They're not people, they react to fear at times as much as they do love & affection unfortunately.

In regards to timing of it, who cares. Sport can't feel sorry for itself due to timing, he shouldn't have put himself in the situation. Even if himself, or other trainers, are desensitised to the incidents such as this, which I feel is probably the case.

greyday · 01-03-2021 12:16pm

nsnoefc1878 wrote: »

That is cruelty, there is no 'or'.

Where is the cruelty?
The horse died on the gallop from a heart issue, a photo was taken which was in bad taste, a spur of the moment stupid schoolboy act but no cruelty was involved whatsoever.

th hen · 01-03-2021 12:19pm

I think the whole racing world knows what went on with him and inside his stables and a very scourned woman who comes from racing royalty as such. It's a combination of a lot of things and he's let himself down as a trainer and person . He's a duty of care to his animals and staff..... He lost touch with the small man with his success and coming back to bite him now

Motivator · 01-03-2021 12:21pm

greyday wrote: »

Where is the cruelty?
The horse died on the gallop from a heart issue, a photo was taken which was in bad taste, a spur of the moment stupid schoolboy act but no cruelty was involved whatsoever.

With respect, you’re in absolutely no position to deny any cruelty was involved. I’m not saying it had anything to do with animal cruelty but you’re a joe soap, same as any of the rest of us, who has about as much knowledge of this as anyone else and that’s zero. Twitter was flooded with experts yesterday laughing at the photo saying it wasn’t real and Gordon wouldn’t ever do anything like that. Different story today.

greyday · 01-03-2021 12:21pm

wardides wrote: »

The horse is dead. He died on the gallops. That is the cruelty element to the outside viewer looking in. He's basically putting the 2 fingers up at the response from the industry which is generally that these horses are treated with utmost respect & care (which I do believe majority are).

The numbers of winners he has, or anybody has, should also not be used as leverage as to how much welfare is shown to his animals. They're not people, they react to fear at times as much as they do love & affection unfortunately.

In regards to timing of it, who cares. Sport can't feel sorry for itself due to timing, he shouldn't have put himself in the situation. Even if himself, or other trainers, are desensitised to the incidents such as this, which I feel is probably the case.

You mistreat a horse you will almost certainly sour him, it can be hard enough to keep them sound without throwing mistreatment into the ring, he was stupid and allowed himself to be photographed in a stupid insensitive situation but there should be absolutely no mention of cruelty from that photo.

wardides · 01-03-2021 12:21pm

greyday wrote: »

Where is the cruelty?
The horse died on the gallop from a heart issue, a photo was taken which was in bad taste, a spur of the moment stupid schoolboy act but no cruelty was involved whatsoever.

For someone involved in the industry or has a large interest in the sport, I agree there was no cruelty regarding the horses death. But for the reputation of the sport, which fundamentally the sport relies on to survive, it will be viewed as cruelty. Any horse dying on a race track, to a large proportion of the public eye, is cruel. And we don't need one of the most high profile trainers sitting on a dead corpse whilst we also shout about how their looked after impeccably.

Hoboo · 01-03-2021 12:23pm

Mimon wrote: »

Putting aside how serious or not it is the excuse is ridiculous. You get a call and you sit down on a dead animal? FFS!

He would have been better to come out and said it was a stupid moment of tomfoolery and it does not represent how he respects his animals etc.

I have no respect for him for his actions, but at least he admitted it. You're right in saying it doesn't represent how he respects animals, it clearly represents how he disrespects animals in his care.

Rumours of a video on the way too.

realdanbreen · 01-03-2021 12:24pm

greyday wrote: »

Where is the cruelty?
The horse died on the gallop from a heart issue, a photo was taken which was in bad taste, a spur of the moment stupid schoolboy act but no cruelty was involved whatsoever.

Exactly. I cannot see what the fuss is about. He sat on a horse that was already dead and took a phone call, what is the big deal. I wonder will the 'outraged' among us decide to not back Elliots horses from now on, I doubt it somehow.

greyday · 01-03-2021 12:24pm

Motivator wrote: »

With respect, you’re in absolutely no position to deny any cruelty was involved. I’m not saying it had anything to do with animal cruelty but you’re a joe soap, same as any of the rest of us, who has about as much knowledge of this as anyone else and that’s zero. Twitter was flooded with experts yesterday laughing at the photo saying it wasn’t real and Gordon wouldn’t ever do anything like that. Different story today.

Fortunately I had a couple of horse's in training with Gordon, I am in a better position than most ordinary Joe Soaps to voice an opinion, I certainly wont not voice my opinion because of what other people said yesterday, the day before or last year for that matter.

greyday · 01-03-2021 12:28pm

wardides wrote: »

For someone involved in the industry or has a large interest in the sport, I agree there was no cruelty regarding the horses death. But for the reputation of the sport, which fundamentally the sport relies on to survive, it will be viewed as cruelty. Any horse dying on a race track, to a large proportion of the public eye, is cruel. And we don't need one of the most high profile trainers sitting on a dead corpse whilst we also shout about how their looked after impeccably.

I agree a photo like this does harm the sport but we all need to be rational about what it actually is, stupid ill advised schoolboy act should not in anyone's eyes be
confused with animal cruelty.

01-03-2021 12:28pm

A dead horse, a guy sitting on it and posing, joking, and the best you can come up with is "yeah but it's not cruel, sure how can you be cruel to a dead animal".

Hope you don't work in PR, otherwise the sport is definitely dead. Do the sport a favour and stay quiet.

The Mig · 01-03-2021 12:28pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

Exactly. I cannot see what the fuss is about. He sat on a horse that was already dead and took a phone call, what is the big deal. I wonder will the 'outraged' among us decide to not back Elliots horses from now on, I doubt it somehow.

Smiling and posing whilst sitting on a dead horse for the photo and then his laughable excuse statement that he thought people would buy. Think it’s a pretty big fuss myself

jakiah · 01-03-2021 12:29pm

greyday wrote: »

Where is the cruelty?
The horse died on the gallop from a heart issue, a photo was taken which was in bad taste, a spur of the moment stupid schoolboy act but no cruelty was involved whatsoever.

There are some absolutely extraordinary responses in this thread, many from people living in the industry bubble it seems. The idea that Elliot did nothing wrong, that there is nothing to see here, is absolutely incredible. These people do not realise that racing (and in particular National Hunt racing) is viewed as a bloodsport and its days are numbered. Stuff like this just hastens the end.

Elliot worked this horse to death. For sport - not for agriculture, not for meat - for sport. Then he sat on its carcass and posed for a picture with a big stupid gurn on his face. Then he released a statement that is, frankly, an insult to the intelligence of anyone who read it. He might as well as scrawled "**** you" in crayon and released that.

This is the very definition of cruelty and callousness. That there are people who cant see that around the sport just goes to show how far its gone. Put this alongside Russell punching horses and we are teetering close to the stuff that has destroyed the greyhound industry already. Cue the usual picture of a bunch of outraged toffs shocked that their sport has met its demise in about 15 years from now, just like we have with the hunting set.

The racing boards need to go nuclear with the response here.

01-03-2021 12:30pm

greyday wrote: »

I agree a photo like this does harm the sport but we all need to be rational about what it actually is, stupid ill advised schoolboy act should not in anyone's eyes be
confused with animal cruelty.

The only people who should have allowances made for committing "schoolboy acts" are schoolboys - because they are not mature enough to know better.

wardides · 01-03-2021 12:33pm

greyday wrote: »

I agree a photo like this does harm the sport but we all need to be rational about what it actually is, stupid ill advised schoolboy act should not in anyone's eyes be
confused with animal cruelty.

I get that, but the sport in itself is deemed as animal cruelty from outside in. This certainly doesn't help. I love the sport. Know people involved, and see the love & affection these animals receive. But this needs to be addressed. It goes right against the theory of love & respect. Particularly for those within. JP, Gigginstown etc maybe not as the vol of horses coming through their books are huge, but if you were a smaller owner and this was your horse, and built a bond up and saw this was the reaction to it passing suddenly, I think you'd be fairly pissed off.

Actually I've seen JP reacting to a horse passing, I can't imagine he'd be delighted with this either.

greyday · 01-03-2021 12:33pm

jakiah wrote: »

There are some absolutely extraordinary responses in this thread, many from people living in the industry bubble it seems. The idea that Elliot did nothing wrong, that there is nothing to see here, is absolutely incredible. These people do not realise that racing (and in particular National Hunt racing) is viewed as a bloodsport and its days are numbered. Stuff like this just hastens the end.

Elliot worked this horse to death. For sport - not for agriculture, not for meat - for sport. Then he sat on its carcass and posed for a picture with a big stupid gurn on his face. Then he released a statement that is, frankly, an insult to the intelligence of anyone who read it. He might as well as scrawled "**** you" in crayon and released that.

This is the very definition of cruelty and callousness. That there are people who cant see that around the sport just goes to show how far its gone. Put this alongside Russell punching horses and we are teetering close to the stuff that has destroyed the greyhound industry already. Cue the usual picture of a bunch of outraged toffs shocked that their sport has met its demise in about 15 years from now, just like we have with the hunting set.

The racing boards need to go nuclear with the response here.

Viewed as a bloodsport by a minority of people who have no idea of rural life while they eat their bacon every morning, how can you be cruel to a dead horse?
I suppose when he calls a horse leary he is slandering him too, is he?

realdanbreen · 01-03-2021 12:35pm

Sean Worried Memory wrote: »

A dead horse, a guy sitting on it and posing, joking, and the best you can come up with is "yeah but it's not cruel, sure how can you be cruel to a dead animal".

Hope you don't work in PR, otherwise the sport is definitely dead. Do the sport a favour and stay quiet.

'Posing' , 'Joking', where did you pluck that from. I'd say you definitely work in PR !

Fann Linn · 01-03-2021 12:35pm

Sean Worried Memory wrote: »

A dead horse, a guy sitting on it and posing, joking, and the best you can come up with is "yeah but it's not cruel, sure how can you be cruel to a dead animal".

Hope you don't work in PR, otherwise the sport is definitely dead. Do the sport a favour and stay quiet.

Betfair pulled out now. Obviously not good PR.

Shemale · 01-03-2021 12:37pm

Hoboo wrote: »

I have no respect for him for his actions, but at least he admitted it. You're right in saying it doesn't represent how he respects animals, it clearly represents how he disrespects animals in his care.

Rumours of a video on the way too.

He didn't have an option and he didn't really admit it either, my phone rang and I standing on my gallops, I sat down not realising that I didn't have a bench in the middle of the gallop, someone took a picture, I turned smiling to someone else and gestured 2 minutes.

Give me a break

StupidLikeAFox · 01-03-2021 12:37pm

jakiah wrote: »

There are some absolutely extraordinary responses in this thread, many from people living in the industry bubble it seems. The idea that Elliot did nothing wrong, that there is nothing to see here, is absolutely incredible. .

Doubt anybody is saying he did nothing wrong, it was a stupid error of judgement, trying to play the jack the lad. But people claiming that this will be the end of him, or the end of the sport are being a bit extreme no?

jakiah wrote: »

Elliot worked this horse to death. .

I mean is that the real issue here? Surely horses die all the time, in yards and gallops up and down the country. If so thats a wider issue than the actual photo.

Is the issue is he has shone a light on that aspect of the sport, rather than any perceived disrespect to the animal

Motivator · 01-03-2021 12:38pm

greyday wrote: »

Fortunately I had a couple of horse's in training with Gordon, I am in a better position than most ordinary Joe Soaps to voice an opinion, I certainly wont not voice my opinion because of what other people said yesterday, the day before or last year for that matter.

And I had a horse in training with a smaller trainer who has had absolutely no time for Elliott for quite a number of years, before all of the recent success and for reasons which were never disclosed to me. There’s a code of honour with trainers and to be fair, there was never any stories told but it wasn’t a secret that he isn’t liked and that didn’t apply to this one trainer.

Gordon is a tremendous trainer, he’s gifted And should be lauded for what he’s achieved from literally nothing. However he needs to take the bad with the good and absolutely nothing can be said that can justify what he did. There just isn’t anything that can dress it up. He deserves everything he gets and as the morning goes on the rumour mill is kicking into high gear. This is going to be a long week for the industry as a whole.

jakiah · 01-03-2021 12:39pm

greyday wrote: »

Viewed as a bloodsport by a minority of people who have no idea of rural life while they eat their bacon every morning, how can you be cruel to a dead horse?
I suppose when he calls a horse leary he is slandering him too, is he?

The same ignorant self-righteous crap that all the other bloodsports used to spout before they were banned. And they weren't massively funded from the public purse. If this is the prevalent attitude within the racing industry it'll be over much quicker than I thought.

wardides · 01-03-2021 12:44pm

"We are truly horrified and dismayed by the photograph doing the rounds on social media however, we will await the official outcome of the investigation by the IHRB, which we trust will be swift, before making any further comment/decisions."

Cheveley park statement. Not sure when the IHRB will make a call, but imagine they will all be shifted to Willie post decision, as I'd think the IRHB will come down hard.

Kauto · 01-03-2021 12:45pm

Whoever released the photo(seems to be the same name going round) has damaged the sport immensely of which they are a part off.

I highly doubt he/she will be well received over the coming months and I'd say her mother is fuming!! Put a lot of jobs at risk.

01-03-2021 12:45pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

'Posing' , 'Joking', where did you pluck that from. I'd say you definitely work in PR !

The fact that he is posing with a big gurn on his face, and the fact that the picture is captioned with a joke.

So yes, posing and joking.

XLR 8 · 01-03-2021 12:46pm

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Lets get real, 99% of trainer could not careless about the horse they use, and of course he will come out with some PC remark to make it sound like he cares, but they don't. I know a horse trainer who would not even waste a bullet on a horse that was no good, he attacked it with a JCB instead and killed it.
That's what these trainers are like.

Just curious as to what the Gardai said when you reported the above to them ??

Messi19 · 01-03-2021 12:46pm

Plasandrunt wrote: »

who has Gordon rumoured to have got pregnant? I presume it's not for a public board so would appreciate a PM

If I played for Man Utd I'd absolutely HATE CARRINGTON too

01-03-2021 12:46pm

Kauto wrote: »

Whoever released the photo(seems to be the same name going round) has damaged the sport immensely of which they are a part off.

I highly doubt he/she will be well received over the coming months and I'd say her mother is fuming!! Put a lot of jobs at risk.

Elliott is the one who has damaged the sport.

Dodge · 01-03-2021 12:46pm

Kauto wrote: »

Whoever released the photo(seems to be the same name going round) has damaged the sport immensely of which they are a part off.

I highly doubt he/she will be well received over the coming months and I'd say her mother is fuming!! Put a lot of jobs at risk.

It’s always the whistleblowers fault...

wardides · 01-03-2021 12:46pm

Kauto wrote: »

Whoever released the photo(seems to be the same name going round) has damaged the sport immensely of which they are a part off.

I highly doubt he/she will be well received over the coming months and I'd say her mother is fuming!! Put a lot of jobs at risk.

Assuming you're hinting that this was leaked by KH. I don't think she would do so, far too engrained in the sport.

Gordon Elliott

Comments