Tubeless road - it actually works

harringtonp · 20-09-2020 10:25pm

harringtonp wrote: »

Changed tyre a couple of days ago, put on a Vittoria Corsa Speed. Had no problems inflating it but saw small leaks around the rim and slow deflation. Put sealant in and it helped, it stays up no problem for a spin but after 2 days was down to 20 PSI.

I'll keep an eye on it, what I've found before is in these situations leakage can get less over time.

As for the cause I'm wondering could old dried sealant under the rim be preventing a good seal ? Anyone experience of this ? I removed some of it before putting on the new tyre but it was a half assed job.

Could never recommend this tyre to anyone. Its super fast with great grip when needed but I've never seen a tyre wear like it. The rubber seemed to just peel off it and I paid for it racing today with it disintegrating, no amount of sealant would help. I was well aware of the spots and the wearing but convinced myself it was superficial (and there must be something more solid underneath) due to having the tyre just under than 2 months.

Back to Schwalbe Pro One for me unless there are good recommendations (well priced links even better) of other fast tyres which give you more than a couple of months wear ?

ratracer · 20-09-2020 10:33pm

I’ve always been a big fan of Continental tires for years and they would have been my go-to brand. I tried the GP 5000 TL last week for the first time, despite all the reports of them being a tight fit

I’ve never seen anything as tight as it, and I failed to get it on either my Mavic or DT Swiss rims. I’ve never failed to fit a tire before, but this one beat me. I went and ordered a Schwalbe Pro One instead, anc that has gone on very easily.

Very disappointed not getting the Conti on, doubt I’ll be trying them again either. Happy with the Schwalbe did now anyway.

harringtonp · 20-09-2020 11:06pm

ratracer wrote: »

I’ve always been a big fan of Continental tires for years and they would have been my go-to brand. I tried the GP 5000 TL last week for the first time, despite all the reports of them being a tight fit

I’ve never seen anything as tight as it, and I failed to get it on either my Mavic or DT Swiss rims. I’ve never failed to fit a tire before, but this one beat me. I went and ordered a Schwalbe Pro One instead, anc that has gone on very easily.

Very disappointed not getting the Conti on, doubt I’ll be trying them again either. Happy with the Schwalbe did now anyway.

Due to narrow clearance my preference is for pro one 23mm but they seem to be obsoleted now.

who_ru · 21-09-2020 7:29pm

harringtonp wrote: »

Could never recommend this tyre to anyone. Its super fast with great grip when needed but I've never seen a tyre wear like it. The rubber seemed to just peel off it and I paid for it racing today with it disintegrating, no amount of sealant would help. I was well aware of the spots and the wearing but convinced myself it was superficial (and there must be something more solid underneath) due to having the tyre just under than 2 months.

Back to Schwalbe Pro One for me unless there are good recommendations (well priced links even better) of other fast tyres which give you more than a couple of months wear ?

there doesn't seem to be a lot of choice at a good price point out there, i'm on mavic rims/tires and no issues so far apart from suspect wet grip.

other than that it's the giant stock brand, Gavia, which are durable but probably not noted for speed.

but the choice is growing all the while. tubeless will be the norm in years to come.

koutoubia · 27-09-2020 7:53pm

So my conversion to tubless has started.
As I use up rims I am gonna get the hubs,if useable , rebuilt onto tubless rims.
So I had a set of old Campagnolo Neutron wheels that I wasnt using and salvaged the hubs.
Ordered a set of tubless ready 45mm deep rims and left them down to Lukaz in Apex cycles who did a fantastic job of rebuilding them with sapim c-xray spokes.
Now the tyres.
Did a fair bit of research and decided to go with IRC Formula PRO tubless tyres in 28.
Got some Effetto Mariposa tubeless tape. Wrapped two layers of the tape on rear rim.
Valve in and tightened up nicely.
Tyre on easily enough with the help of some levers. No sealant. Valve core out. Floor pump on and mounted and seated first time. Valve core back in .Pumped up to recommended max of 100psi.
Came back a day later and little or no air loss.Happy days.

Now to the front wheel. Same story except it didnt hold air.It sounded like the valve. Re seated the valve. Nada. Stuck in some sealant and slowed it but not sufficiently.
Decided to start again from scratch.
Took the tyre off and saw that the taped had moved and folded in some places.
Ordered more tape and redid it. Again with two layers.Put some plumbers around the top of the rubber grommet.
Bingo. Seated first time with the floor pump.
Added 50mls of Orange Seal sealant and happy days.

Now for the riding:
As they were 28s and pressure was rated 80-100psi I opted for 85 rear and 80 front.
They felt very slow on their inital spin.
Next spin I opted for 90 front and 95 rear after using the Google machine.
Different story. Felt really nice and supple and held speed nicely.The tyres have a very wide thread thread as in it comes down quite far onto the sidewall so cornering is nice, assured and feel planted.

Only downside is the rear barely clears my rear brake so am gonna swap them for a set of the same tyres in 25s.

crosstownk · 27-09-2020 8:47pm

I wheeled the bike out of the house today, leaned it against the car to lock the hall door. Next thing I hear the hiss of air from the back wheel so I lifted the rear of the bike and spun the wheel. Within seconds the hiss stopped. Being the inquisitive type :rolleyes:, I rotated the wheel to look for the sealed hole. Once located, I wiggled it - another hiss followed by another spin after which the puncture once again sealed itself. I waited a minute or two and all appeared well. Then I cleaned the speckles of sealant from my glasses and went for a 70km spin without issue.

No replacing a tube, no tyre levers, no CO2, no dirty hands. The thread title was my first thought.

harringtonp · 28-09-2020 10:10pm

Two new tires arrived today. Put on the continental tubeless for the first time keeping pro one as spare. First time ever needed a lever to get it on, it wasn't difficult though. First time also was able to pump straight up to 80 without a chamber blast. And it stayed there too without sealant. Added sealant after.

Was worried about not been able to order 23mm any more due to frame clearance. Happy to stay that with 4 measurements on difference places on tire, widest continental came to was 25.8 mm

Older 25mm pro ones could measure close to 28

andy69 · 01-10-2020 11:06am

Hey folks

Does anyone use a 'compound' to seal off little cuts on the surface of your TL tyres?
I've two cuts - larges one is 2mm. It had a little sharp stone in it which I removed. Other is a bit smaller and had some bits of glass in there.

So, having moaned about GCN earlier this week, I actually found a vid from their MTB friends where he used 'Shoe Goo' to seal the surface.

Just wondering if you guys have a preferred product you use? I heard Super Glue might not be the best as it can be hard/sharp. This Shoe Goo seems to stay flexible. Anyone used it?

crosstownk · 01-10-2020 10:03pm

I usually 'top up' my tyres before I head out each time. Since my recent puncture, every time I inflate I get a pool of sealant on the floor. I guess it's time to remove the tyre, repair the puncture and refresh the sealant.........?

harringtonp · 02-10-2020 8:22am

crosstownk wrote: »

I usually 'top up' my tyres before I head out each time. Since my recent puncture, every time I inflate I get a pool of sealant on the floor. I guess it's time to remove the tyre, repair the puncture and refresh the sealant.........?

Try inflating 10-20 PSI higher than you normally ride at and leave sitting with puncture at lowest point... that is touching ground.

crosstownk · 02-10-2020 11:26pm

harringtonp wrote: »

Try inflating 10-20 PSI higher than you normally ride at and leave sitting with puncture at lowest point... that is touching ground.

I did this today and it popped the sealant out and resealed after a few seconds. I wheeled the bike out ready for the off. As I locked the door it popped again. :mad: It did reseal but I've lost confidence in it.

So I brought the bike back in and decided to take the other bike. But no. The other bike had a flat rear tyre. This bike is shod with tyres and tubes.

I replaced the tube and off I went on a shortened spin due to lost time.

As I cycled along it was glaringly obvious that the tyre tube combo is simple and easy to fix. Yes it's a pain to be changing a tube but it's simple.

Changing a failed tubeless repair is a messy pain in the ar$e. If I didn't have a second bike I'd have missed out on a spin today.

I'll use the tubeless set up until the current tyres are worn and then I'll probably switch back to tubes.

Despite being initially impressed with tubeless, it just doesn't seem worth the hassle.

Zen0 · 03-10-2020 10:03am

As a compulsive bike footler every now and then I get the temptation to try road tubeless tyres. When I do I just come along to the “Tubeless road - it actually works” thread and it reminds me why I should stick to tubes.

who_ru · 03-10-2020 12:07pm

again speaking as someone riding tubeless 2.5yrs, it's been almost incident free.i did get a puncture on a front tire this year, certainly lost pressure, but it sealed, and has been perfect since. i didn't actually notice it on the road. i have never had a puncture that i needed to stop on the side of the road since going tubeless. but on the negative side I have also experienced the frustration of trying to mount a tubeless tire.

The vast majority of the other club riders i cycle with are all on tubes and have almost all punctured several times this year alone. i check my tires before and after a spin, always inflate to approx 80psi prior to setting off. i have one bike but two sets of wheels, and plenty of spare tires. This works for me.

CantGetNoSleep · 03-10-2020 1:29pm

crosstownk wrote: »

I did this today and it popped the sealant out and resealed after a few seconds. I wheeled the bike out ready for the off. As I locked the door it popped again. :mad: It did reseal but I've lost confidence in it.

So I brought the bike back in and decided to take the other bike. But no. The other bike had a flat rear tyre. This bike is shod with tyres and tubes.

I replaced the tube and off I went on a shortened spin due to lost time.

As I cycled along it was glaringly obvious that the tyre tube combo is simple and easy to fix. Yes it's a pain to be changing a tube but it's simple.

Changing a failed tubeless repair is a messy pain in the ar$e. If I didn't have a second bike I'd have missed out on a spin today.

I'll use the tubeless set up until the current tyres are worn and then I'll probably switch back to tubes.

Despite being initially impressed with tubeless, it just doesn't seem worth the hassle.

I felt the same tbh after I got one of those punctures that wouldn't seal and missed a morning out on the bike because of it, but if you patch the inside of the tube it will be good as new in 15 mins

harringtonp · 03-10-2020 3:05pm

Zen0 wrote: »

As a compulsive bike footler every now and then I get the temptation to try road tubeless tyres. When I do I just come along to the “Tubeless road - it actually works” thread and it reminds me why I should stick to tubes.

It's a huge thread at this stage but reading it all you'll sense a split right down the middle just like American politics.

I'm on the Yay side. Punctured 2 weeks ago with tubeless in a race in Carrick. Was disappointing and the end of my race but that was down to stupidity and the tire being almost completely worn through. I knew I was risking it and would have replaced the tire beforehand if I had a spare in waiting.

Prior to Carrick I haven't had a single puncture or wheel incident in a race since going tubeless in the summer of 2017 and that includes close to 15 full license races in each of 2018 and 2019.

Prior to going tubeless I had a run of 5 consecutive stage races over 2 and a bit years where I either popped a spoke or punctured. Abandoning a race due to a wheel problem can be extremely frustrating... so for me a solid wheel setup is gold dust and I see tubeless as a large part of that. It's not bombproof but spoke bed and pinch flats are eliminated completely and a large proportion of pinprick/thorn flats will not disrupt your race.

Zen0 · 03-10-2020 3:32pm

I can see the value in tubeless for racing, but I just don’t get it for leisure cycling. If you puncture in a race that’s probably your race over, so you may as well do anything which avoids that. I get about one puncture a year, probably less, and it takes five to ten minutes to sort it out. If I get a puncture running tubeless and the hole doesn’t seal, it sounds as if I might not even be able to get my tyre off the rim. That might be OK if I’m a half hour drive for Mrs. Zeno to pick me up, assuming she’s about, but if I’m at the far end of a long spin the idea that I’m stranded doesn’t appeal. Which is a pity, because the concept is great. I’m watching club mates slowly drift to tubeless with great interest, and as as an inveterate pootler I get tempted now and again. So keep posting in this thread folks, it’s the only thing keeping me from tubelessness.

Flaccus · 03-10-2020 6:53pm

I'm on the fence about tubeless. Just got a set of new road carbon rims today which are the tubeless hookless variety (straight side wall, 24mm internal width, 30.5mm external) but can be run with inner tubes providing you use a tubeless ready tire. I've chosen to go inner tubes for now but might not be an option for me after hearing back from LBS today.

Problem is LBS took over an hour just to seat front tire. Both mechanics skinned their thumbs. With the hookless rims you have a centre channel the bead drops into. There are no hooks inside the main wall. So they reckoned it was a tight squeeze getting the bead to seat in the channel as it was having to compete with the tube for space. Eventually they managed it and the tire inflates and seats at 70psi. However they don't even want to attempt the rear wheel and are pushing for me to go tubeless which no doubt will be an easier setup option for them.

My concern with tubeless as I am sure others may have mentioned in this thread, do you continue to just keep topping up every couple of months and at what point do you clean out the tire. LBS use Milkit (https://milkit.bike/product/milkit-tubeless-sealant/) which they say has low viscosity so doesn't dry out like other sealants. Orange are the same and say their stuff stays in solution and you can just keep topping up.

Also how much do you put in initially and how much do you use when you want to top up. Stan's say 60mm is about right for a 28mm tire on initial install. I have 29mm tires that come up as 32mm once inflated.

What happens if you get a puncture that doesn't seal on the side of the road, do you go the hassle of taking off the tire, removing the valve and putting a tube in which currently seems like an impossible task says the LBS. I'd assume in this case carrying an innertube is pointless and you'd be better off with a dynaplug or stans dart thing.

Finally, do you guys who are running tubeless now carry a hand pump instead of CO2, in case you get too much pressure loss after the sealant does it's job and you need to top up the tire with air. I'd assume so seeing as CO2 is supposed to react badly with latex.

8valve · 03-10-2020 7:09pm

I get so many customers in complaining about tubeless, I have come up with a standardised reply: fit a tube.

It's complication for the sake of it in my humble opinion, for leisure or everyday cycling.

mo_bhicycle · 03-10-2020 8:07pm

Flaccus wrote: »

Problem is LBS took over an hour just to seat front tire. Both mechanics skinned their thumbs. With the hookless rims you have a centre channel the bead drops into. There are no hooks inside the main wall. So they reckoned it was a tight squeeze getting the bead to seat in the channel as it was having to compete with the tube for space. Eventually they managed it and the tire inflates and seats at 70psi.

Do you not have the worst of both worlds now? You’ve a setup that’s more likely to result in a flat and takes an hour to change.
Surely tubeless is the way to go for both front and back in your situation

crosstownk · 03-10-2020 8:49pm

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

I felt the same tbh after I got one of those punctures that wouldn't seal and missed a morning out on the bike because of it, but if you patch the inside of the tube it will be good as new in 15 mins

Maybe it can be done in 15 minute but I can't see me completing the process in that time.

I doubt 15 mins would be enough to remove the tyre, clean out the sealant, patch the tyre, refit the tyre, inflate to reseat, deflate, add sealant, reinflate, wait to see if it holds pressure.

Compare that to partially remove tyre, remove tube, fit new tube, refit tyre, inflate, ride.

I agree that tubeless probably has it's place in a racing scenario but as others have highlighted, it's probably of less benefit to the leisure cyclist (me) - 'don't fix what ain't broken'.

Hands up, I was attracted by the self sealing puncture which would avoid stopping at the side of the road to replace a tube but in reality it's a lot more hassle and mess (in my limited experience) when it comes to repairing a tyre.

Anyway, I'll continue to use the tubeless tyres as there's a good bit of life left in them.

Despite my negative puncture experience, it's worth pointing out that tubeless is significantly more comfortable than the equivalent tyre and latex tube. This is what really impressed me.

harringtonp · 03-10-2020 10:23pm

crosstownk wrote: »

Despite my negative puncture experience, it's worth pointing out that tubeless is significantly more comfortable than the equivalent tyre and latex tube. This is what really impressed me.

Above I talked about the inconvenience of punctures when racing. I didn't mention comfort, speed or weight but they're all positive factors too

harringtonp · 29-10-2020 3:41pm

Can anyone provide a link to a good reasonably priced tubeless track pump ?

I own

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/lifeline-airblast-tubeless-tyre-track-pump/rp-prod155451

but the switch between tank and direct pump snapped off and it is stuck in direct pump mode. It was great up to this point and I would be looking for something similar. Reluctant to buy the same again particularly as review comments highlighted the same problem for someone else

Underpinner · 29-10-2020 3:50pm

I being using this for the past couple of years and have found it excellent - reasonably priced and was available in store.

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/ie/giant-control-tank

harringtonp · 29-10-2020 4:04pm

Thanks. So I gather you use your own track pump and pump through it. Initially you are filling a chamber and once this is released you can continue to inflate the tire through it. Correct ?

See also you buy it through click and collect, they don't do post.

Underpinner · 29-10-2020 4:28pm

I fill it, using the gauge on my track pump.... 70psi ...ish... and attach it to the valve. Open it and the blast of air seats the tyre. Then I'd use the track pump and inflate the tyre directly, as normal.

CantGetNoSleep · 16-11-2020 7:59am

Is there such thing as winter tubeless yet?

I'm running Schwalbe Pro Ones on my two main bikes (summer & winter) but one of them is has a second puncture that isn't sealing well within 2000km. I'll patch it from the inside but I was wondering if there is anything available that is a bit stronger in 30 or 32mm?

manafana · 16-11-2020 1:14pm

Some of heavier tubeless tyres prob what you need.

Out interest what tyres are people running with the mavic wheels? alot of prices seem have gone up for stuff i've used.

koutoubia · 16-11-2020 1:49pm

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Is there such thing as winter tubeless yet?

I'm running Schwalbe Pro Ones on my two main bikes (summer & winter) but one of them is has a second puncture that isn't sealing well within 2000km. I'll patch it from the inside but I was wondering if there is anything available that is a bit stronger in 30 or 32mm?

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/products/irc-formula-pro-rbcc-tl-tyres?_pos=12&_sid=6b598d26c&_ss=r

Altough sold out.
I am riding the 25's and love them. Not the fastest but grippy.The thread goes right down the sidewall. Was riding along last week and saw the tell tale sign of sealing spraying everywhere from the front.
A few revolutions later and the spraying stopped and the hole sealed .Orange seal endurance sealant. Has stayed sealed since.
Have a set of 28's that have 230km on them. The fit was a shade too tight so swapped them out for 25's.

paddydriver · 16-11-2020 2:01pm

manafana wrote: »

Some of heavier tubeless tyres prob what you need.

Out interest what tyres are people running with the mavic wheels? alot of prices seem have gone up for stuff i've used.

GP5000's 28's - an absolute heartache to fit to Cosmic Pro Carbon. Going back to Ksyrium Elite UST for winter and debating whether to stick with tubes on Conti 4 Seasons or try tubeless on them too. The 4 Seasons were flawless for 2 years so don't know why I left them in first place.. but that said, the ride on the GP5000's w/Cosmic Pro's has been great.

Have 2 x Mavic Yksion tubeless that I may try with the Ksyrium Elites.

Hope this helps. Agree.. not many great deals on tyres, and any that are on a decent price don't have 28's for me.

manafana · 16-11-2020 9:52pm

paddydriver wrote: »

GP5000's 28's - an absolute heartache to fit to Cosmic Pro Carbon. Going back to Ksyrium Elite UST for winter and debating whether to stick with tubes on Conti 4 Seasons or try tubeless on them too. The 4 Seasons were flawless for 2 years so don't know why I left them in first place.. but that said, the ride on the GP5000's w/Cosmic Pro's has been great.

Have 2 x Mavic Yksion tubeless that I may try with the Ksyrium Elites.

Hope this helps. Agree.. not many great deals on tyres, and any that are on a decent price don't have 28's for me.

yeah i've heard that of conti tubeless before, didn't follow the mavic standard, which makes it easier to fit and to sit.

Tubeless road - it actually works

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