Tubeless road - it actually works

gn3dr

I run 23 mm tyres (well 22mm on front of one bike) pumped to 100 psi in the front and 110 psi rear.

Have had 2 punctures in the last 3 years and one of them looked to be a tube manufacturing issue as it gave away at a seam. The other was a stone / rock in a dirty cycle lane.

Can't say I'm cycling on good roads down here in Kerry either.

Don't see any need to go tubeless - looks like a ballache.

I assume sealant is heavier than a tube also?

CantGetNoSleep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907128#Comment_117907128

About six weeks later I got the tire off these (in fairness it took about three attempts and a two week break in between to allow both hands and patience to recover). Even after cutting the tire open and getting the bead off on one side it wouldn't come off on the other and had to chip away at it with a wire cutter (not very easy on a carbon rim).

Still not sure where I went wrong - I see some posts online that these don't work, others suggesting that the new Schwalbe Pro Ones are similar to the Mavic UST standard which is supposed to make fitting tubeless easy.

Wheelset is now up for sale. Tire is in the bin and wheelset very nearly ended up there too.

For anyone else reading, I strongly advise against this combo.

byrnem31

https://www.vittoria.com/us/en/bike-accessories/tire-inserts/air-liner-road

Air liners for tubeless to get you home if the puncture doesn't seal. Another gimmick. The price of them, i think ill stick with a spare tube worth a fiver.

CantGetNoSleep

As a change from the whinging I've been doing on here for the last few weeks:

Swapped a Schwalbe Pro One (old type) with the same tire but the new version on a set of Hunt Aero Light disc wheels today. Had been on for 2.5 years (albeit winter bike so maybe 4.5k done). One puncture that I had to patch from the inside in that time (and a second puncture now that I couldn't spot but there was a pool of sealant on my hall floor). Was surprised how much sealant was left in the tire, I keep track of it and I had last topped up over a year ago.

Old tire came off in about one minute. New tires went one in about a minute. Seated with track pump. Removed valve core and inserted sealant. Wheel back on and a max 15 minute job.

Mavic can stick their UST up their arse

Mercian Pro

More whinging I'm afraid. One of the lads on the club leisure spin yesterday punchured on a back road NW of Dunboyne. He had been an early advocate for tubeless and had newish Schwalbe tyres on Mavic rims. Getting the tyre off was painless enough though worryingly, there was no obvious cause for the puncture. Getting the tyre back on having inserted a tube was a nightmare and he came very close to calling for a lift home. Eventually after 35min we managed to reseat the tyre without pinching the tube and headed on for a very welcome coffee stop in the Coffee Mill in Maynooth. It was between 2 and 3 degrees while we were stopped and even the best of gear can't cope with hanging around in those temperatures.

CantGetNoSleep

Another frustrating one for me - Zipp 303S and Schwalbe Pro Ones (both brand new). Saw a David Arthur YouTube where he fitted them with no hassle at all, and a road cc article where they went on with just a track pump.

I've got a tubeless pump & tried the normal tricks that worked for me - remove the valve core, soap & water, fit a tube and only break the bead on one side. The tire just seems to sit in the inner channel and air leaks out all around.

philten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118863140#Comment_118863140

Thats annoying, I see on schwalbe website mentions they needed a compressor/tyre booster for their tubeless tyres on zipp 303s. https://www.schwalbe.com/en/kompatibilitaet

I put pirelli p-zero on my 303s and were very easy to mount and inflate using track pump, maybe better option if you can return the scwalbes

CantGetNoSleep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865046#Comment_118865046

Thanks - I had never seen that website, it is useful.

My local hardware store has a compressor on sale for 99 euros so I'm thinking of buying it and giving it a try

68 lost souls

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866250#Comment_118866250

Something like this could be cheaper, more compact and easier https://www.alltricks.com/F-11929-outillage/P-286190-airshot_tubeless_compressor_pump?gclid=CjwKCAjwxZqSBhAHEiwASr9n9M59JQacN5EOmcFNojUdNZGfOOdPHvEDrlDeJdCHsRigOI_XUZ0j4BoCJgEQAvD_BwE

Or perhaps a shot of a CO2 cartridge?

CantGetNoSleep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866972#Comment_118866972

I have a pump with one of those built in (Topeak Joe Blow Booster). Normally it works but this time nothing, I've pumped it up to 160 psi on several occasions but just won't seat

wersal gummage

Slight nick in sidewall of brand new tyre, the sealant didn't work. Stuck a tube in and got myself home. It really is a small nick rather than a gash or very visible /concerning looking..

Any thoughts on patching?

Birka

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118922135#Comment_118922135

You could try a tubeless plug - it should work and is another option if it happens again on the road. You would need to carry some sort of blade to trim it though

wersal gummage

Thanks,

Not suitable for a plug, although I should indeed buy a kit and be prepared for that.

This is more like a scalpel slice about .7/.8 of a cm long. It's so fine that you can't see daylight through the cut but air is leaking out, fairly quickly too..

Grateful for the input more more so interested in any views on patching a cut? Is it madness to even consider it?

Birka

I've patched a gash on one of my tyres that needed two plugs to get me home. it was on the tread rather than the sidewall but I guess the principle is the same. It's really an overnight job as you need to have a perfectly dry surface for adhesion so its not a roadside solution.

There are some sealants that seem to work better with larger holes - Stans Race Sealant for instance so it might be worth doing a bit of research on different brands. Malcolm Borg recommends flexible superglue for small sidewall holes - I've only used it to fill holes on the tread but it does seem to stay in position.

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/blogs/news/living-with-tubeless-tyres

JMcL

Ok, so I've decided to give it a go. I've got a pair of pair of Vittoria Rubino TLR tyres and an mounting them onto a set of DT Swiss PR Spline 1600 rims. Rims have tape applied already and I've put in a Muc-Off tubeless valve.

The tyre went on ok with a little persuasion from a tyre lever, and seated surprisingly easily with just a track pump. I've inflated it up to about 40psi (without sealant yet) and am wondering if I've done everything right. There's a band that runs all the way round the tyre about 5mm out from the hook. When inflated I'd expect it to be uniformly visible all the way around the rim, but it's not, a couple of pics to illustrate:

It looks fine at the valve, but less so on the opposite side:

It's not visible at all at Am and re-emerges at B.

Is it just a case that I haven't inflated it enough yet to seat it properly? It did seem a bit better after going up from 20psi to 40. The sidewall suggest a minimum tubeless pressure of 87psi, which strikes me as high for 28mm tubeless (I wouldn't be much above that for 25mm tubed tyres). I'm vary of inflating it any more to see in case it blows off the rim though.

Any advice?

Gerry

most likely you just havent gotten enough pressure in yet. usually id find 60 to 80 is needed. id have no problem going to 100 if the tyre is rated for that. then drop it down afterwards.

JMcL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975661#Comment_118975661

Cheers, 70psi did the job. Having dumbly blown a tube a few years ago after dumbly pinching the tube between tyre and rim, I was wary of doing the same with a tyre :-)

JMcL

Got the rear tyre on though it was more of a barsteward than the front, and required a moderate degree of swearing and the sacrifice of 1 tyre lever. Sealant in and pumped them up to 70psi. Pressure had dropped to just over 60psi overnight, though they'd have lost a smidgen detaching/attaching the pump, so topped them up to 75psi and gave them a short test spin this morning as I had to go into the office for a meeting. It's about 14km each way on a mix of main road and cratered backroads.

Is it comfortable? Very! I left the house without gloves, and decided to not bother going back for them. Normally this wouldn't be a pleasant experience due to road buzz, but even on the botharin it was grand (I'd usually only venture on to this particular stretch on the Croix de Fer with 32mm rubber)

Do they roll better? No idea - I've no way to measure this objectively, so I'll accept the test results at face value. They didn't feel like a drag though

Puncture protection? Happily this wasn't put to the test today

So all in all happy with the experience so far. My main goal is to make the tar an chip roads that tend to be the mainstay of my routes more tolerable, and on today's evidence that seems to be the case. I'll probably try dropping the pressure a bit - the stated minimum for tubeless on the sidewall is 87psi, which sounds daft to me. I'm not the lightest around but would usually put 90-95psi into Conti 4 Seasons (with a tube) and have often ridden them as low as 70psi (though laziness in checking the pressure - I usually just try them with my thumb) and I've rarely had pinch flats

68 lost souls

Is the stated sidewall not Maximum rather than minimum?? Not sure if that was a typo in your post or not

JMcL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118986161#Comment_118986161

It's got both. Max is 100psi - you can see the min value on the 2nd pic I posted a few posts up, the max is just off to the right. Methinks they're being ultra-conservative

It got me curious though so I did a quick survey of the tyres I have to hand. Conti 4 Seasons only appear to have a max value, I can't see anything at all on the Panaracer GravelKings I have on the Croix, there's a min/max on the tyres on herself's bike (Specialized somethings), and the kids bikes have min/max. I usually look for it if I'm putting air into some size I'm not used to

68 lost souls

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987161#Comment_118987161

Ah hadn't seen that one on any tyres I've used before. Very surprised as to how low the min is. That's about what I run tubed 25mm clinchers at.

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118984470#Comment_118984470

What weight are you and what specific tyres are you using? The Conti 4S measure pretty accurately on width I believe like the GP5000 while the 4000 measured really big, there 28mm measured 31mm from memory.

I'm close to 100kgs total weight with bike included and I've ridden tubed GP4000 at a lot lower than 87psi for years with road buzz not an issue or pinch flats on really crap roads

JMcL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987283#Comment_118987283

I'm just over 100kg me+bike, and same - I've ridden the Conti 4 Seasons 25mm a lot lower. They've been my go-to year round tyre for a decade or so now, and I'd usually run them about 90psi, so pressure wise it'd only be downhill from there. I've run them as low as 60 with no issue - only 2-3 pinch flats in the last decade that I can remember, and they were from stupidity in one case (mounting a low kerb when I knew the tyres needed air) and hitting a small pothole at speed which would have been a challenge for any tyre pressure.

I've never bothered measuring the 4 Seasons, though it looks like they come up a bit bigger on the Specialized Allez with a mix of Ksyrium and Aksium wheels they're on. The max size of per spec is 28mm, and there's not a huge amount of space around them.

The tyres I have on the new bike are Rubino Pro TLRs. It came with a set of 25mm (with tubes) fitted, an I've been happy with those over a thousand+ km so far. I've always tended to suffer badly from road buzz. Bike fit and me improving core have helped a lot, but 4 hour spins on tar and chip roads still take their toll, hence 28mm (Rubino as well) set up tubeless.

wersal gummage

Bit of a stupid question, but I'm a total beginner....

I presume the sealant works by being forced out through the puncture with the pressure associated with the air escaping?

Eg I have a puncture that didn't seal, there's no point in putting a drop of sealant against the inside of the hole and balancing the tyre in such a way that I could leave the sealant sitting over the puncture for a few hours? Pointless? It needs that high pressure forcing it into the puncture?

Thanks

JMcL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118997520#Comment_118997520

Correct, the sealant needs to be in the tyre and (hopefully) seals the puncture by being forced through it

CantGetNoSleep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118997520#Comment_118997520

I'd suggest patching that on the inside first

wersal gummage

I think Birka above suggested stans race sealant, as it happens I had already ordered this haven't read a bit about the different brands....

Just for info for anyone else new to this, thr stans race sealant says on the pack that it can't be poured via the valve and needs to go straight into the tyre.... I ignored this but its actually correct, the sealant blocks up the injector, which I guess is a good sign for what it'll hopefully do to punctures.... You get the liquid stuff in through the injector and valve, but the injector is then left all blocked up with the crystals or whatever they are. I guess if fitting new tyres and not sure how easy they'll go on, something to be aware of

ILIKEFOOD

Hey folks..

Finally went tubeless..had the lbs set it up for me and forgot to ask the question..can I use a normal pump to top up if theres a bit of natural air loss over time?

Thanks!

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119000422#Comment_119000422

Your puncture if not sealing sounds ready made for a worm. It's easy to do, I've done it on the side of the road. 2 min job.

ratracer

Yep, you can.

In my case, there is air loss every couple of days, and need to inflate before every spin. ( usually only by about 20psi)