Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

Kermit.de.frog · 07-06-2019 12:15am

I'm getting worried if major expansion of the terminals does not start immediately the airport will be caught with it trousers around it's ankles and the place will grind to a halt.

The regulator is hopeless with it's passenger number forecasts.

There is literally no significant expansion of the terminals under construction as we type!

This won't end well.

trellheim · 07-06-2019 1:23pm

Right now if it was me before 2nd runway

remote stands for Longhaul, there are many airports where its done and no particular reason why not
fund T1 departure screening staffing to the full extent so all belts are running
Bus some T1 arrivals to 300 immigration and staff them fully
Get the tower to use 34 rwy as well as 28 for departures between 0600-0800 to the full extent possible , wind and weather permitting

The airlines could also do with either spreading out the TATL departures to give the preclearance circus less of a pain or just not preclearing certain flights or paying for extra preclearance staffing because it is far more stressing than T1 inbound passport queue because you have a strong possibility of missing flights

JCX BXC · 07-06-2019 2:31pm

trellheim wrote: »

Get the tower to use 34 rwy as well as 28 for departures between 0600-0800 to the full extent possible , wind and weather permitting

Wouldn't that just increase unreliability in the schedule?

HTCOne · 07-06-2019 2:53pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

Wouldn't that just increase unreliability in the schedule?

It would. Dual runway ops only make sense when the traffic is heavily biased towards departures because of bottlenecks all along the route to T2 especially when there's large queues for departures and 16/34 isn't available for taxiing. Too many arrivals waiting to get near their gates would cause absolute gridlock.

cgcsb · 07-06-2019 3:32pm

Does anyone remember 2007 before T2 opened? It was like an absolute zoo. People everywhere, sitting on the floor eating dinners and all. You would think it was New Dheli, only then did ground break on T2. I suspect we'll be expected to endure same before a 3rd terminal starts. The latest news seems to indicate a level of growth far exceeding the celtic tiger years, so that may be sooner rather than later

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0606/1053812-cso-aviation-statistics/

Also Dublin is set to become the EU's 9th biggest airport, and the largest airport without any rail access.

dfx- · 07-06-2019 4:12pm

There's not only the infrastructure element but staff and organisation also.

I've had short haul AL flights fully boarded and on time but waiting for the hold luggage to arrive at the aircraft and planes left on the apron waiting for an airbridge operator...

Shamrockj · 07-06-2019 4:20pm

trellheim wrote: »

Right now if it was me before 2nd runway

remote stands for Longhaul, there are many airports where its done and no particular reason why not
fund T1 departure screening staffing to the full extent so all belts are running
Bus some T1 arrivals to 300 immigration and staff them fully
Get the tower to use 34 rwy as well as 28 for departures between 0600-0800 to the full extent possible , wind and weather permitting

The airlines could also do with either spreading out the TATL departures to give the preclearance circus less of a pain or just not preclearing certain flights or paying for extra preclearance staffing because it is far more stressing than T1 inbound passport queue because you have a strong possibility of missing flights

I don't think that would work. For the us flights you couldn't bus people because of the pre clearance the aircraft and all routes to it are sterile from other areas.

07-06-2019 4:21pm

dfx- wrote: »

There's not only the infrastructure element but staff and organisation also.

I've had short haul AL flights fully boarded and on time but waiting for the hold luggage to arrive at the aircraft and planes left on the apron waiting for an airbridge operator...

That's EI management trying to run their operation on a shoestring for max profit. Several times management have had to man the pumps to keep the operation going because they've maxed out their staffing.

plodder · 07-06-2019 4:29pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Does anyone remember 2007 before T2 opened? It was like an absolute zoo. People everywhere, sitting on the floor eating dinners and all. You would think it was New Dheli, only then did ground break on T2. I suspect we'll be expected to endure same before a 3rd terminal starts. The latest news seems to indicate a level of growth far exceeding the celtic tiger years, so that may be sooner rather than later

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0606/1053812-cso-aviation-statistics/

I remember being in T1 around that time, maybe a year or two earlier before the T1 check-in extension opened, and it was bedlam. You couldn't tell the check-in queues apart. At the time I remember thinking what would happen if an evacuation of the terminal were needed...

Also Dublin is set to become the EU's 9th biggest airport, and the largest airport without any rail access.

Arrived at 2am Wed morning there this week, only to wait in a queue for taxis for over 30 minutes. Surreal and bizarre to think that taxis are the only way out of the place at that time, if you haven't parked your own car. The lads managing the queue did a good job, but the Metro can't come soon enough.

trellheim · 07-06-2019 5:05pm

HTCOne wrote: »

It would. Dual runway ops only make sense when the traffic is heavily biased towards departures because of bottlenecks all along the route to T2 especially when there's large queues for departures and 16/34 isn't available for taxiing. Too many arrivals waiting to get near their gates would cause absolute gridlock.

But at that time 0600-0800 it *is* heavily oriented towards departure - FR and EI first wave. In addition if those departures cant get away there will be no gate usually

Chris_5339762 · 07-06-2019 8:17pm

trellheim wrote: »

But at that time 0600-0800 it *is* heavily oriented towards departure - FR and EI first wave. In addition if those departures cant get away there will be no gate usually

If conditions are right though, at that stage they DO do dual-ops but I think they are then restricted by the current flow rate east into the UK. Things do move quite well if they do that.

On any normal morning everything is departing 30+ minutes after its scheduled time. Now I know the schedules are padded to offset that, but Dublins taxi time still sucks.

Donegal Storm · 08-06-2019 12:48am

Dalton Philips said recently that there's space for 50 million pax using the current terminal setup, considering how busy it is already I find that hard to believe unless they consider it acceptable to go back to pre-T2 style chaos. I remember landing at the airport at 6am around 2006/7 and could barely get in the door it was so cramped

T2 could use some expansion already as well, very little open space in departures airside, the bar is permanently jammed and there's nowhere near enough seating unless you head straight to your gate

08-06-2019 9:28am

The way you view max capacity is from 0530-2200, in terms of departures, ever slot and stand is constantly full 365 days of the year. There is currently lots of capacity in the evenings and in the winter period.

It isn’t a case of in the summer you will see double the passengers you currently see. Realistically only the troughs in the summer days can be filled with an extra flight here or there. So it shouldn’t get busier. If you want a better idea of what and when to expect you should really read all the information on the CAR site from the DAA about slots and airport capacity and you’ll get a better appreciation of what to expect.

jesus_thats_gre · 08-06-2019 11:25am

I tend to alternate between T1 and T2 every week and I am not experiencing major capacity issues within the terminal buildings. Generally departing between 07:00 and 09:00 on Mondays/Tuesdays and arriving between 15:00 and 21:00 on Thursdays/Fridays.

trellheim · 08-06-2019 11:28am

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I tend to alternate between T1 and T2 every week and I am not experiencing major capacity issues within the terminal buildings. Generally departing between 07:00 and 09:00 and arriving between 15:00 and 21:00.

You are outside peak hours both coming and going. Try being in T1 screening at 0520 or the cattle crush T1 document check queue at midnight

jesus_thats_gre · 08-06-2019 11:33am

trellheim wrote: »

You are outside peak hours both coming and going. Try being in T1 screening at 0520 or the cattle crush T1 document check queue at midnight

Generally going through security at 06:15 in the morning. Mind you, it's always fast track.

Being honest, I find the experience in Dublin to be quite consistent relative to other airports that I depart from on a regular basis.

Jamie2k9 · 12-06-2019 1:00pm

for those interested on the new runway progress:
https://twitter.com/DublinAirport/status/1138453355150434304

Blut2 · 12-06-2019 1:51pm

Good to see. The sooner its operational the better.

Hotblack Desiato · 12-06-2019 4:21pm

Interesting diagram in that twitter thread from 1968 - two 3500m runways were planned, with the north one to be built first!

Kermit.de.frog · 14-06-2019 12:28am

Not sure where to mention this but complaints about long taxi queues (with hardly any taxis) again tonight.

What a shoddy introduction to Ireland.

Idbatterim · 14-06-2019 5:07am

No Uber etc. no metro, it’s an absolute disgrace!

MJohnston · 14-06-2019 7:58am

You *can* use the taxi apps, you just have to go to the unmarked Zone 18 surface car park to meet them.

Jamie2k9 · 14-06-2019 10:14am

DAA have apparently halted capital projects plans because of the regulator decision to cut charges so much.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/dublin-airport-stops-work-on-expansion-over-plan-to-cut-passenger-charges-1.3925111?mode=amp

14-06-2019 11:37am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

DAA have apparently halted capital projects plans because of the regulator decision to cut charges so much.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/dublin-airport-stops-work-on-expansion-over-plan-to-cut-passenger-charges-1.3925111?mode=amp

I don't blame them. CAR seems to be confused as to how these projects are funded. You pay cheap, you build twice.

On 09 May 2019, the Commission for Aviation Regulation published its Draft Determination on the maximum level of Airport Charges at Dublin Airport. CAR proposes a maximum price of €7.50 per passenger in each of the years from 2020 to 2024. This is 15% lower than the 2019 price cap of €8.81. This proposed reduction is in the best interests of passengers to ensure value for money, while providing a quality service.

That is such a daft statement, clearly they don't use Dublin airport themselves. Its not like the daa is looking to have gold taps and marble flooring.

trellheim · 14-06-2019 12:13pm

I came through T2 inbound last night at 8pm

Full of taxis but largely quiet.

One of my bugbears at the moment is the massive MYTAXI advertising signs above immigration document check yet no information is given as to how to book them , if you try and call a cab to T2 the driver will always cancel it so infuriating and if you book a waiter its ferociously expensive.

MYTAXI could at least have had a deal with DAA to do something smarter here. DAA could also do something smarter with predicting taxi demand and offering discounts on fee renewal to regular cab drivers who pickup but what do I know , its not as if they dont know this themselves

MJohnston · 14-06-2019 12:38pm

trellheim wrote: »

I came through T2 inbound last night at 8pm

Full of taxis but largely quiet.

One of my bugbears at the moment is the massive MYTAXI advertising signs above immigration document check yet no information is given as to how to book them , if you try and call a cab to T2 the driver will always cancel it so infuriating and if you book a waiter its ferociously expensive.

MYTAXI could at least have had a deal with DAA to do something smarter here. DAA could also do something smarter with predicting taxi demand and offering discounts on fee renewal to regular cab drivers who pickup but what do I know , its not as if they dont know this themselves

No, as I said, that's no longer true, if you go in the app to select your pickup location, there's an airports button. Click on that and you'll see the Pickup Zone 18 option appear:

Once you select it, a "Show Walking Directions" banner will appear, which shows you this:

And it has worked for me every time.

Now, clearly DAA have sanctioned this approach, because it's advertised in the airport, as you say. But what they haven't done is made this process foolproof for tourists. There should be directional signs at the airport saying "This way for MyTaxi, Uber, and other taxi apps", instead of some obscure Zone 18 directional.

Worse, last time I arrived to T1, signs for Z18 completely disappear at a certain point, so unless you know where you're going, you're going to get lost.

Shedite27 · 14-06-2019 1:31pm

What's the benefit of using a taxi app over the taxi rank?

Blut2 · 14-06-2019 1:51pm

Shedite27 wrote: »

What's the benefit of using a taxi app over the taxi rank?

Avoiding the 30min+ taxi rank queue thats often there these days if you land after 23:30.

MJohnston · 14-06-2019 1:58pm

Shedite27 wrote: »

What's the benefit of using a taxi app over the taxi rank?

No waiting usually (you can have the app open when coming through customs and they're already waiting by the time you walk to Zone 18) and you can pay with a card through the app. Oh, plus you're far less likely to encounter a driver who whines about only going a short distance.

trellheim · 14-06-2019 2:05pm

and having cash in your pocket to pay .

How on earth are you supposed to know about a separate rank for mytaxis is my point - until you posted I had no idea it existed - you'd think those big signs would .. FOR MYTAXI USE T2 ZONE 18

Locker10a · 14-06-2019 2:07pm

MJohnston wrote: »

No waiting usually (you can have the app open when coming through customs and they're already waiting by the time you walk to Zone 18) and you can pay with a card through the app. Oh, plus you're far less likely to encounter a driver who whines about only going a short distance.

Shhhh will ya, it won’t be so quiet and easy to use if you blab about it to everyone here and the whole world starts to use it.

crisco10 · 14-06-2019 2:09pm

Locker10a wrote: »

Shhhh will ya, it won’t be so quiet and easy to use if you blab about it to everyone here and the whole world starts to use it.

was thinking the very same thing! Is it DAA sanctioned, or is it a bit more don't ask don't tell?

MJohnston · 14-06-2019 2:09pm

Locker10a wrote: »

Shhhh will ya, it won’t be so quiet and easy to use if you blab about it to everyone here and the whole world starts to use it.

I actually think the app prompted me about it last time I opened it while at the airport.

Kermit.de.frog · 14-06-2019 5:54pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

DAA have apparently halted capital projects plans because of the regulator decision to cut charges so much.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/dublin-airport-stops-work-on-expansion-over-plan-to-cut-passenger-charges-1.3925111?mode=amp

This is very serious. Airport needs the new capacity ASAP.

Kermit.de.frog · 16-06-2019 8:13pm

Whatever the problem is - this is absurd. Random tweet, random picture from today...

https://twitter.com/KasiaBrzoza1/status/1140240381340262401

I try to pretend how would I feel having to endure potential hour long queue through immigration (while pondering to myself why are those e-gates closed?)...and then having to endure that just for a taxi.

You wouldn't be happy and that's putting it lightly.

L1011 · 16-06-2019 8:20pm

Just missed a bus today so had 59 minutes to kill - T1 landside is starting to look very run down in places (everything important still works though, unlike Manchester!)

Only three places left in the food court, the display about airport modernisation is literally falling apart and none of the tech for it works. Kitchen was out of action in the arrivals pub which has only just been refitted on the customer side. Broken floor and wall tiles on the way to the toilets in the food court

16-06-2019 8:24pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Whatever the problem is - this is absurd. Random tweet, random picture from today...

https://twitter.com/KasiaBrzoza1/status/1140240381340262401

I try to pretend how would I feel having to endure potential hour long queue through immigration (while pondering to myself why are those e-gates closed?)...and then having to endure that just for a taxi.

You wouldn't be happy and that's putting it lightly.

People do know that it’s not the daa’s fault if there isn’t enough taxis available on Father’s Day, don’t they ?

Kermit.de.frog · 16-06-2019 8:26pm

In fairness in the doc of the modernisation 2021 - 2024 there are serious works to be done on arrivals at T1.

Unfortunately the regulator seems to think this is "quality" service and don't want to hold passenger charges (they want to reduce them) so DAA can pay for the upgrades.

They want to do this in spite of airlines having been consulted and standing behind the proposed upgrades.

gordongekko · 16-06-2019 8:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

People do know that it’s not the daa’s fault if there isn’t enough taxis available on Father’s Day, don’t they ?

If you look at that ladies feed all she does is complain

Peregrine · 16-06-2019 8:32pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Whatever the problem is - this is absurd. Random tweet, random picture from today...

https://twitter.com/KasiaBrzoza1/status/1140240381340262401

I try to pretend how would I feel having to endure potential hour long queue through immigration (while pondering to myself why are those e-gates closed?)...and then having to endure that just for a taxi.

You wouldn't be happy and that's putting it lightly.

I landed at around 11PM there in April. Flew through immigration, 20 min wait for a taxi.

Landed at 1AM this week (delayed), got through immigration in under 5 mins, 30 min wait for a taxi.

I know they're odd hours but it's still unacceptable.

Stephen Strange · 16-06-2019 9:00pm

The problem is that there really is no incentive for taxis to pick up in the airport at those times, and the airport is far too reliant on taxis as a mode of transport. At 11 or 12 on a weekend, a taxi driver has the choice of having constant fares in the city centre, or possibly 1 job from the airport to a suburb, where he may have to run empty back to the airport.

They really need to hand the taxi operation to a private company, introduce SLA's, etc into the contract. Operating with sole traders just won't work, for the reasons I've set out above. Also, DAA haven't issued any new taxi permits in years, that doesn't help the current situation.

Kermit.de.frog · 16-06-2019 9:08pm

Couple of more pics from today from tweeter https://twitter.com/hynes_gh/status/1140224349997338624

D9LnDg2WkAUvusa.jpg:small

I personally don't think it is the queues pre se that piss people off. Particularly it's the sight of the closed e-gates that really riles people up - I know it did me.

D9LooM_XoAEdIR0.jpg:small

Why are they closed??? What are they there for if not to cut down on waiting times?

Obviously people are going to be extremely annoyed when they see that.

There is no defence for this. It's incompetence.

trellheim · 16-06-2019 9:56pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Couple of more pics from today from tweeter https://twitter.com/hynes_gh/status/1140224349997338624

I personally don't think it is the queues pre se that piss people off. Particularly it's the sight of the closed e-gates that really riles people up - I know it did me.

Why are they closed??? What are they there for if not to cut down on waiting times?

Obviously people are going to be extremely annoyed when they see that.

There is no defence for this. It's incompetence.

We've a thread for this and nearly weekly letters in the Irish times complaining . try and tweet DAA or Dublin Airport - "no hablo ingles, not our problem senor" . BTW from an infrastructure view, in that corridor which I think is the 300 gates T2 approach , or in the T1 100 gates long rat maze , there are no bathroom facilities or drinking water fountains until through to the baggage hall .

Shedite27 · 16-06-2019 10:02pm

Anyone got any ideas for the taxi situation? Obviously Dublin Airport only build the taxi rank, the lack of taxis use it seems out of their control. IS there something that other airports do that Dublin is missing out on?

cameramonkey · 16-06-2019 10:03pm

Shedite27 wrote: »

Anyone got any ideas for the taxi situation? Obviously Dublin Airport only build the taxi rank, the lack of taxis use it seems out of their control. IS there something that other airports do that Dublin is missing out on?

metro and or heavy rail.

Kermit.de.frog · 16-06-2019 10:31pm

At least 10 years away

IngazZagni · 16-06-2019 11:12pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

People do know that it’s not the daa’s fault if there isn’t enough taxis available on Father’s Day, don’t they ?

Yeah but surely it could be solved overnight if they allowed all taxis to operate there. Or drop the licence costs. Or make it easier for people to navigate to a separate Uber or mytaxi service. This is a daily issue now. Do something!

Donegal Storm · 16-06-2019 11:14pm

Locker10a wrote: »

Shhhh will ya, it won’t be so quiet and easy to use if you blab about it to everyone here and the whole world starts to use it.

There's a full two page spread in the Cara magazine at the moment advertising it so seems likely they're trying to push it

Shedite27 · 17-06-2019 9:07am

cameramonkey wrote: »

metro and or heavy rail.

Some of the responses on here makes it seem like there's something Dublin Airport is doing that is driving taxis away. Is there a quick fix that I'm missing or something?

trellheim · 17-06-2019 9:30am

DAA charge taxis for an airport permit to pick up , they could get rid of it , they could also incentivise drivers to pick up.

One useful statistic they could make public is the avg number of taxis in the waiting area on an hourly basis, they have this information readily to hand

For really bad queues on a Saturday night take the bus if it arrives , to the city centre and a cab out you may be quicker ( yes I know it wont work for everyone who lives in Swords as it wont be cheap ) because you'll get a cab no snags in town easily.

Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

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