Alberto Salazar banned for 4 years

Checkmate19 · 01-10-2019 6:32pm

Look mo missed two tests due to he couldnt hear them. His running partner was shown to be on a doping prgram galean rupp. His trainer is now banned. I think the walls are closing in. 7 out of the 8 finalists in the benn johnson race ended up testing positive at some stage or another. Sonia was robbed of medals by the chinesse. Athletics is poision. Athletes banned and getting back in. Its worth the risk. The rewards are there. If u get banned u come back. Also u keep the physical and financial benefits. Also less likely to be tested when banned. Joke of a sport.

Ceepo · 01-10-2019 7:43pm

Sir Mo has issued a statement....

“I left the Nike Oregon Project in 2017 but as I’ve always said, I have no tolerance for anyone who breaks the rules or crosses a line. A ruling has been made and I’m glad there has finally been a conclusion.”

https://www.athleticsweekly.com/athletics-news/coach-alberto-salazar-gets-four-year-ban-for-doping-violations-1039925491/

OOnegative · 01-10-2019 7:47pm

Ceepo wrote: »

Sir Mo has issued a statement....

“I left the Nike Oregon Project in 2017 but as I’ve always said, I have no tolerance for anyone who breaks the rules or crosses a line. A ruling has been made and I’m glad there has finally been a conclusion.”

https://www.athleticsweekly.com/athletics-news/coach-alberto-salazar-gets-four-year-ban-for-doping-violations-1039925491/

Am sure he’ll step away from his lucrative Nike contract now seeing his morals are so high.

glacial_pace71 · 01-10-2019 8:45pm

In recent ads over my emails I got a notice on the lines of 'new device proven to stun attackers ...'. GPS data is harvested for targetted ads, ho hum.

However, I'm a middle-aged male. No middle aged female friend of mine who runs similar Dublin 7 routes got the same ad. I'm taking that it's meant for wannabe rapists, i.e. 'new device proven to stun defenders ...'.

Similarly, reading the Salazar/Brown defence re testosterone 'experiments' it's almost impossible to concur with the claim as to their stated purpose.

"... But he claimed it was designed to protect against his athletes being "sabotaged" by someone rubbing testosterone gel on them after a race so they would test positive..."

walshb · 01-10-2019 8:52pm

nannerby wrote: »

Disappointing from the BBC,cram especially very weak they seem to be afraid of condemning the Nike project for fear of implicating Farah.

Cram only defended the nonsense that Farrah is guilty by association.

Farrah left NOP in 2017. He quit when USADA brought charges against Salazar..

Farrah is guilty of nothing apart from maybe poor judgment..

Hurrache · 01-10-2019 9:22pm

He's unfortunatel alright, even more so given we all know he suffers from selective deafness or narcolepsy brought on only when drug testers come knocking.

Also unfortunate that his results coincidentally improved when he started working with a cheat.

Poor bloke.

KSU · 01-10-2019 9:35pm

walshb wrote: »

Cram only defended the nonsense that Farrah is guilty by association.

Farrah left NOP in 2017. He quit when USADA brought charges against Salazar..

Actually charges were filed in June, he didn't leave till October

That's two coaches now been charged for doping - Funnily his judgement of character seems to deteriorate as his age and performances get along.

Cram is a hypocrite considering he spends half his time on air casting aspersions on the East Africans be it for doping or age cheating.

walshb · 01-10-2019 9:52pm

His age and performances? What about them?

Nothing suspect whatsoever for anyone who knows sport...

KSU · 01-10-2019 9:56pm

walshb wrote: »

Nothing suspect whatsoever for anyone who knows sport...

:D:p

Excuse my ignorance, i'll bow to your expertise so. (getting off the roundabout here)

walshb · 01-10-2019 9:57pm

KSU wrote: »

:D:p

Excuse my ignorance, i'll bow to your expertise so.

Well, it is kind of ignorance...

And no need to be an expert to see this..

STB. · 01-10-2019 10:11pm

walshb wrote: »

Cram only defended the nonsense that Farrah is guilty by association.

Farrah left NOP in 2017. He quit when USADA brought charges against Salazar..

Farrah is guilty of nothing apart from maybe poor judgment..

It took him 2 years to seperate himself from Salazar.

2 years after Panorama first aired the allegations.

2 missed drug tests in 2011.

Ceepo · 01-10-2019 10:15pm

STB. wrote: »

It took him 2 years to seperate himself from Salazar.

2 years after Panorama first aired the allegations.

Yeah but remember that UKA contact Salazar at the time, and he put their mind at ease...

Quigs Snr · 01-10-2019 10:19pm

Cycling fan here. Interesting to see the true believers here going through the denial stage. You'll get there in the end folks.

Top level sport is a business. Best accept that its at least more real than WWE (though not quite as substantially as the average muggle would expect) and learn to enjoy it for what it is. Encourage your kids to do it for fun. Don't let them turn "pro".

walshb · 01-10-2019 10:21pm

STB. wrote: »

It took him 2 years to seperate himself from Salazar.

2 years after Panorama first aired the allegations.

2 missed drug tests in 2011.

And?

Like I said. Guilty of nothing other than maybe poor judgment...

He didn’t abandon Salazar until charges brought...

Maybe he felt some sense of loyalty and friendship. Only natural..

echat · 01-10-2019 10:26pm

walshb wrote: »

His age and performances? What about them?

Nothing suspect whatsoever for anyone who knows sport...

Astonishing for a clean runner to repeatedly beat guys that were probably not clean and to look fresh doing it at the same time. What a guy!

walshb · 01-10-2019 10:30pm

echat wrote: »

Astonishing for a clean runner to repeatedly beat guys that were probably not clean and to look fresh doing it at the same time. What a guy!

Looking fresh is a sign of what, exactly?

Care to point to these races where he was looking fresh? And what about the athletes he was beating? They looked worn out, or fresh too?

Many many a great has run world class, and ever WR times and looked fresh..

Mo has never run a WR, at least not outdoors to my knowledge..

NIMAN · 01-10-2019 10:32pm

There are some deluded people about.

Ceepo · 01-10-2019 10:33pm

Quigs Snr wrote: »

Cycling fan here. Interesting to see the true believers here going through the denial stage. You'll get there in the end folks.

Top level sport is a business. Best accept that its at least more real than WWE (though not quite as substantially as the average muggle would expect) and learn to enjoy it for what it is. Encourage your kids to do it for fun. Don't let them turn "pro".

Very few on here are in denial....
The worse part and today's news is that no athlete was impacted...
The report shun a light on Salazar and Dr Brown (who also got a ban and maybe investigated by the US medical council) so are we to believe that
all of the NOP athletes are as pure as a drift of snow.....
There is a belief in some US circles that a deal was cut to "protect the athletes" while I'm not sure that is the case it may have some merit..

walshb · 01-10-2019 10:35pm

NIMAN wrote: »

There are some deluded people about.

Yes, indeed. Especially the ones ready to hang a man without a shred of actual verifiable proof of doping...

STB. · 01-10-2019 10:41pm

walshb wrote: »

And?

Like I said. Guilty of nothing other than maybe poor judgment...

He didn’t abandon Salazar until charges brought...

Maybe he felt some sense of loyalty and friendship. Only natural..

Poor judgement my arse.

https://www.runnersworld.com/news/g29323802/alberto-salazar-nike-oregon-project-doping/

https://deadspin.com/mo-farah-who-is-definitely-definitely-not-a-doper-rep-1823885848

walshb wrote: »

Yes, indeed. Especially the ones ready to hang a man without a shred of actual verifiable proof of doping...

You sound just like Lance Armstrong.

walshb · 01-10-2019 10:44pm

STB. wrote: »

Poor judgement my arse.

https://www.runnersworld.com/news/g29323802/alberto-salazar-nike-oregon-project-doping/

https://deadspin.com/mo-farah-who-is-definitely-definitely-not-a-doper-rep-1823885848

You sound just like Lance Armstrong.

Get back to me when the story of Mo’s cheating breaks, pal!

Ceepo · 01-10-2019 10:46pm

walshb wrote: »

His age and performances? What about them?

Nothing suspect whatsoever for anyone who knows sport...

Yeah age is just a number, look at 37 year old Gatlin running 9.89

walshb · 01-10-2019 10:50pm

Ceepo wrote: »

Yeah age is just a number, look at 37 year old Gatlin running 9.89

What has a 37 year old Gatlin to do with Mo, who ran his PBS aged 29/30/31?

And of course, for the marathon, mid 30s

Ceepo · 01-10-2019 10:56pm

walshb wrote: »

What has a 37 year old Gatlin to do with Mo, who ran his PBS aged 29/30/31?

And of course, for the marathon, mid 30s

Of course Gatlin has nothing to do with Mo, just saying that age wasnt a factor

Sinbad_NI · 01-10-2019 10:57pm

Sacksian wrote: »

Really satisfying to see this. It may be bit like cutting a head off a hydra, but at least it shows that the sport is willing to tackle practices that undermine its integrity.

....

IMO athletics has done as little as it could get away with.
Was this not all USADA’s work.

I’d be very confident that the athletics top brass would like it to all appear clean without headlines like this.

STB. · 01-10-2019 11:28pm

walshb wrote: »

Get back to me when the story of Mo’s cheating breaks, pal!

ho ho ho. Straight out of a book that quote.

Salazar has my sympathies though. It must have been challenging to get such a gang of misfit asthmatics to reach the highest levels of sporting achievements.

I was never a fan of Ewan McKenna, but his sarcastic piece from last year nails it in my view. Although I probably have a little more scepticism towards the integrity of athletics having read far too many investigative books on sports doping.

You should also read the runnersworld link, I linked earlier, its a fascinating timeline.

Big Ears · 02-10-2019 12:05am

I think what Walshb is saying, is that until proven otherwise, Farah has to be held in the same esteem as other clean athletes who were great champions, such as Alan Wells or Flo Jo

walshb · 02-10-2019 8:47am

Big Ears wrote: »

I think what Walshb is saying, is that until proven otherwise, Farah has to be held in the same esteem as other clean athletes who were great champions, such as Alan Wells or Flo Jo

Lumping in Mo with Flo Jo is well off..

Ceepo · 02-10-2019 8:51am

Big Ears wrote: »

I think what Walshb is saying, is that until proven otherwise, Farah has to be held in the same esteem as other clean athletes who were great champions, such as Alan Wells or Flo Jo

This killed me

Sinbad_NI · 02-10-2019 9:54am

Big Ears wrote: »

I think what Walshb is saying, is that until proven otherwise, Farah has to be held in the same esteem as other clean athletes who were great champions, such as Alan Wells or Flo Jo

Haha.
That list could be very long.

average_runner · 02-10-2019 10:56am

walshb wrote: »

Lumping in Mo with Flo Jo is well off..

Why would you say that, Flo Jo was a clean athlete like Mo?

walshb · 02-10-2019 11:53am

average_runner wrote: »

Why would you say that, Flo Jo was a clean athlete like Mo?

Yes, she was...why the question mark?

Never failed tests.

But if you analyse both of them and their careers, eras, times etc etc etc, they are different...there's a lot more to get behind if you wated to smear Flo Jo.

It just requires research; hell, even I am very skeptical on her.

I am not near as skeptical on Mo.

You're being deliberately obtuse it seems...

walshb · 02-10-2019 12:15pm

Slow_Runner wrote: »

Not at all surprising, this now puts a question mark on all NOP athletes. Feel sorry for any clean athlete (if any) in that group.
Will be interesting to see what Nike do now if the appeal fails

Interesting question...

Do people not believe that it's possible that some athletes that were involved with Salazar were/are clean?

Kind of seems ridiculous to me that ALL have to be cheaters, because he has been shown to be.

All can be labeled as showing poor judgment to be associated with him based off all the issues surrounding him, but that doesn't mean they deliberately cheated, or ingested PEDs.

The amount of skepticism related to track and field is way OTT. I am talking more about the blanket throwing around that next to everyone is a cheat because these amazing athletes happen to be able to do amazing things, that us mere mortals can't.

average_runner · 02-10-2019 1:04pm

walshb wrote: »

Yes, she was...why the question mark?

Never failed tests.

But if you analyse both of them and their careers, eras, times etc etc etc, they are different...there's a lot more to get behind if you wated to smear Flo Jo.

It just requires research; hell, even I am very skeptical on her.

I am not near as skeptical on Mo.

You're being deliberately obtuse it seems...

Just because you said you wouldn't lump them together.
But they can be as both clean athletes.

Might be some interesting questions about Jo but then again there is some interesting questions about Mo regarding his coaches, missing drug tests and Aden....

Just questions

walshb · 02-10-2019 2:15pm

average_runner wrote: »

Just because you said you wouldn't lump them together.
But they can be as both clean athletes.

Might be some interesting questions about Jo but then again there is some interesting questions about Mo regarding his coaches, missing drug tests and Aden....

Just questions

You need to factor in performances, times, the eras they competed in

Flo Jo was worlds ahead of the next best at 100 and 200.....

She was running insanely fast times for a woman, that have not been touched, 30 + years later.

Add in the almost non existent testing back in the mid to late 1980s, as well as her physical changes, her early retirement once mandatory OOC testing came in...

Anyone saying she is remotely comparable with Mo is deliberately being obtuse, or else really stupid.

Only thing that they have in common is that neither ever tested positive for banned substances...

Though what I was always wondered was how come Flo Jo was so far ahead of the others, if the others (according to so many) were alos juicing? Was it because maybe Flo Jo was getting much better juice, not obtainable by others?

Look at her Seoul 100 final win. Very difficult to find any other single sports event where the winner was so dominant...

Why were the others so far back?

Checkmate19 · 02-10-2019 2:19pm

Well most involved in the lance team new about it. Drugs is ripe in sport. The drugs are evolving all the time. Epo was only found as it was sent to the testers. The sports that are cleaner are due to less testing. Where there is big money involved there will be cheaters. Athletics has a massive problem. It wont go away till the punishments are harsher. Cycling had a massive problem which has improved.

Ceepo · 02-10-2019 2:37pm

walshb wrote: »

Interesting question...

Do people not believe that it's possible that some athletes that were involved with Salazar were/are clean?

Kind of seems ridiculous to me that ALL have to be cheaters, because he has been shown to be.

All can be labeled as showing poor judgment to be associated with him based off all the issues surrounding him, but that doesn't mean they deliberately cheated, or ingested PEDs.

The amount of skepticism related to track and field is way OTT. I am talking more about the blanket throwing around that next to everyone is a cheat because these amazing athletes happen to be able to do amazing things, that us mere mortals can't.

I and probably a lot of others were sceptical of Mo and his improvement long before the Salazar news broke out in 2015...
Is it possible that he couldn't make the top 50 of a world junior xc or make a final of a championship and then become a world beater and dominate mid distance events when he change coach at 27 or what ever age he was... maybe...
Then when you hear of Salazar and it has to be said his shadey practices, then people will look on things a lot more cynical.. do you honestly think he was testing testosterone patches on his own son to see how much would raise a red flag on the off chance someone Might rub a patch on one of his athletes? Or contact Lance A to tell him he had a better method of administering L-c? Why would he even be testing to see if administering L-c outside of the permitted doses and time frame if he wasnt going to use it on any of his athletes?
Whether Mo, Rupp, Hassan or any other athletes doped we may never find out unless they test positive. Does it mean we cant or shouldn't ask question..
Unfortunately athletics has a history of doping. Is it right we question what we believe are outstanding performance, of course it is imo...

There are a number of outstanding performance from NOP athletes over the years. Do you think NOP are to running what Sky were to cycling with their marginal gains, As one cycling director of sportif put it, do you think we didn't think of the 1%.
Do you think we shouldn't question the performance of Kenyan, Ethiopia athletes when they have almost zero testing system, or question why a small island in the Caribbean again with almso zero testing with the population of Ireland dominated sprints event for a few years. Or why the fastest man on the planet that has a link to a very dubious German doctor since he was 16 is faster than then 10 men behind him that by the way most of that 10 have * beside there name,
This doesnt mean they all doped, but I think we have every right to be sceptical..

Ceepo · 02-10-2019 2:40pm

walshb wrote: »

Very difficult to find any other single sports event where the winner was so dominant...

Womens marathon time ??

walshb · 02-10-2019 2:44pm

No issue with anyone questioning or being suspicious, sure I am that myself.

But seems here, historically, so many are so wanting Mo to be a cheat. There is a real hostility.

You mention outstanding performances....to whom? The fans, other elites, joe soaps sitting on the couch munching on junk food?

They are world class athletes. They are running the fastest times in the world. That is their job.

Mo has never ran what I would call off the charts times.....

He no single outdoor WR.

My question was asking is it not at all possible/believable that even with Salazar as coach, that some athletes were clean and honest and above cheating?

walshb · 02-10-2019 2:45pm

Ceepo wrote: »

Womens marathon time ??

No.....

Excellent time, but it's a marathon; long and slow....

Flo Jo put 4-5 meters between her and her opponents over 100 meters...and it was how she accelerated away as well....looked so superior.

Bolt in Beijing comes close....100 and 200.

Ceepo · 02-10-2019 2:52pm

walshb wrote: »

No issue with anyone questioning or being suspicious, sure I am that myself.

But seems here, historically, so many are so wanting Mo to be a cheat. There is a real hostility.

You mention outstanding performances....to whom? The fans, other elites, joe soaps sitting on the couch munching on junk food?

They are world class athletes. They are running the fastest times in the world. That is their job.

Mo has never ran what I would call off the charts times.....

He no single outdoor WR.

My question was asking is it not at all possible/believable that even with Salazar as coach, that some athletes were clean and honest and above cheating?

Mo outstanding performance against his previous performance

walshb · 02-10-2019 2:55pm

Ceepo wrote: »

Mo outstanding performance against his previous performance

So, care to break this down....

It's not like he was some slouch who made massive time gains that cannot be explained via hard work and maturity...

It's this desperate kind of searching and picking to try and pin something on him..

Could do similar with so many other athletes who never failed tests.

May as well just say ALL are cheaters, and there is no such thing as fair play, honesty, morals, decency and integrity with humanity.

Ceepo · 02-10-2019 2:57pm

walshb wrote: »

No.....

Excellent time, but it's a marathon; long and slow....

Flo Jo put 4-5 meters between her and her opponents over 100 meters...and it was how she accelerated away as well....looked so superior.

Bolt in Beijing comes close....100 and 200.

The marathon , long and slow, but surely the same for everyone, except is 2 minutes quicker that anyone for only 1 person..
And you dont Question Bolts Beijing performance?

walshb · 02-10-2019 2:59pm

Ceepo wrote: »

The marathon , long and slow, but surely the same for everyone, except is 2 minutes quicker that anyone for only 1 person..
And you dont Question Bolts Beijing performance?

Bolt's Beijing performance? No, I don't question that. Bolt is a once in a 1000 generations type athlete.

Like I said, may as well just label them ALL cheaters.....

Do you believe all WR holders in the sport today, and the past were on PEDs?

The marathon is an exceptional time......never said otherwise.

Ceepo · 02-10-2019 3:17pm

walshb wrote: »

Bolt's Beijing performance? No, I don't question that. Bolt is a once in a 1000 generations type athlete.

Like I said, may as well just label them ALL cheaters.....

Do you believe all WR holders in the sport today, and the past were on PEDs?

The marathon is an exceptional time......never said otherwise.

So do you think the exceptional marathon time is clean.?

How can you say" Bolt is a once in 1000 generation type athlete" to do that you would need to have examined athletes for 1000 of generations.. at best we can compare him to athletes over that last 100 or so years. Look what happens when we compare him to athletes of the last 2 generations... he is comparatively faster that his peers and as I stated previous most of them have * beside there name.
Of course he could well be a freak of nature.
He might also have benefit from a certain german doctor and lived in a country with no real testing procedures..

Both of these are plausible. Is one more plausible that the other

chasingpaper · 02-10-2019 3:52pm

Why is one dominant individual put down to "once in lifetime/freak of nature" and another we point to doping? Bolt especially gets an easy out, because he is tall maybe? Even though he may be the biggest outlier in athletics performance since the 80s steroid era.

He competed in possibly the most competitive event in athletics and utterly dominated his peers, most of them have doping question marks. Remember all these guys are elite of the elite, they are all freaks of nature.

It is more logical to look at performances, testing (or lack of) athlete is subject to and their associates to give a fuller picture. But we cannot know about any athlete until there is a positive test.

Even looking at the NOP case, Salazar was checking testosterone patches to see how much would trigger a positive test. At least he had to work within those parameters because his athletes, in the US anyway, were subject to out of competition testing. This limited the doping they could do. In some other countries athletes and coaches do not have to worry about passing out of competition tests in off season and can do what they like.

JJJackal · 02-10-2019 4:00pm

chasingpaper wrote: »

Why is one dominant individual put down to "once in lifetime/freak of nature" and another we point to doping? Bolt especially gets an easy out, because he is tall maybe? Even though he may be the biggest outlier in athletics performance since the 80s steroid era.

One dominant individual is often put down to doping, in my opinion, because this dominant individual is often destroying the field of athletes who are later proven to be dopers.

How can one man or woman overcome the known performance benefits of drugs? The athletes taking the drugs competing with the dominant individual (who lets say is not on drugs) would be top of their field without the drugs - but probably not in the top 2 or 3

walshb · 02-10-2019 4:11pm

Ceepo wrote: »

So do you think the exceptional marathon time is clean.?

How can you say" Bolt is a once in 1000 generation type athlete" to do that you would need to have examined athletes for 1000 of generations.. at best we can compare him to athletes over that last 100 or so years. Look what happens when we compare him to athletes of the last 2 generations... he is comparatively faster that his peers and as I stated previous most of them have * beside there name.
Of course he could well be a freak of nature.
He might also have benefit from a certain german doctor and lived in a country with no real testing procedures..

Both of these are plausible. Is one more plausible that the other

Paula's marathon time......? the better question is can a woman cover the marathon distance in 135 minutes?

I can't see why not.....unless you have some evidence to suggest that what she did was not physiologically possible for a woman?

I believe that Paula was a clean and decent and honest athlete, as well as one who never tested positive for PEDs...

On Bolt, like many greats,......anything is plausible. I personally believe that it's more likely that he was clean, and just an exceptionally fast human being, with so much natural ability and natural physiological traits to allow him be that fast..

Again, like with Paula, are you saying that his times are not humanly possible without PEDs?

I'd be quite confident that Bolt and Paula were always clean and playing fair......Mo too...

Sinbad_NI · 02-10-2019 4:11pm

Jamaican general sprinter level back then raises huge issues. Amazing they were all so good at the same time.
Huge red flag for me.

Just cause he is a cool guy doesn't mean he should be spared questions.
When questioned his response was far from inspiring.

Always amusing the way people seen to give their heroes or countrymen the benefit of the doubt but suspect others easily.

walshb · 02-10-2019 4:12pm

JJJackal wrote: »

One dominant individual is often put down to doping, in my opinion, because this dominant individual is often destroying the field of athletes who are later proven to be dopers.

How can one man or woman overcome the known performance benefits of drugs? The athletes taking the drugs competing with the dominant individual (who lets say is not on drugs) would be top of their field without the drugs - but probably not in the top 2 or 3

It is not impossible, and has never been proved to be impossible that a naturally clean athlete/sports star cannot beat those who are using PEDs....

Alberto Salazar banned for 4 years

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