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Alberto Salazar banned for 4 years

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13567…16

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    #62
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    walshb wrote: »
    Cram only defended the nonsense that Farrah is guilty by association.

    Farrah left NOP in 2017. He quit when USADA brought charges against Salazar..

    Farrah is guilty of nothing apart from maybe poor judgment..


    It took him 2 years to seperate himself from Salazar.

    2 years after Panorama first aired the allegations.

    2 missed drug tests in 2011.


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    #63
    Ceepo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,510 ✭✭✭Ceepo


    STB. wrote: »
    It took him 2 years to seperate himself from Salazar.

    2 years after Panorama first aired the allegations.

    Yeah but remember that UKA contact Salazar at the time, and he put their mind at ease...


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    #64
    Quigs Snr
    Registered Users Posts: 4,131 ✭✭✭Quigs Snr


    Cycling fan here. Interesting to see the true believers here going through the denial stage. You'll get there in the end folks.

    Top level sport is a business. Best accept that its at least more real than WWE (though not quite as substantially as the average muggle would expect) and learn to enjoy it for what it is. Encourage your kids to do it for fun. Don't let them turn "pro".


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    #65
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,617 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    STB. wrote: »
    It took him 2 years to seperate himself from Salazar.

    2 years after Panorama first aired the allegations.

    2 missed drug tests in 2011.

    And?

    Like I said. Guilty of nothing other than maybe poor judgment...

    He didn’t abandon Salazar until charges brought...

    Maybe he felt some sense of loyalty and friendship. Only natural..


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    #66
    echat
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭echat


    walshb wrote: »
    His age and performances? What about them?

    Nothing suspect whatsoever for anyone who knows sport...

    Astonishing for a clean runner to repeatedly beat guys that were probably not clean and to look fresh doing it at the same time. What a guy!


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    #67
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,617 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    echat wrote: »
    Astonishing for a clean runner to repeatedly beat guys that were probably not clean and to look fresh doing it at the same time. What a guy!

    Looking fresh is a sign of what, exactly?

    Care to point to these races where he was looking fresh? And what about the athletes he was beating? They looked worn out, or fresh too?

    Many many a great has run world class, and ever WR times and looked fresh..

    Mo has never run a WR, at least not outdoors to my knowledge..


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    #68
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,039 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    There are some deluded people about.


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    #69
    Ceepo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,510 ✭✭✭Ceepo


    Quigs Snr wrote: »
    Cycling fan here. Interesting to see the true believers here going through the denial stage. You'll get there in the end folks.

    Top level sport is a business. Best accept that its at least more real than WWE (though not quite as substantially as the average muggle would expect) and learn to enjoy it for what it is. Encourage your kids to do it for fun. Don't let them turn "pro".

    Very few on here are in denial....
    The worse part and today's news is that no athlete was impacted...
    The report shun a light on Salazar and Dr Brown (who also got a ban and maybe investigated by the US medical council) so are we to believe that
    all of the NOP athletes are as pure as a drift of snow.....
    There is a belief in some US circles that a deal was cut to "protect the athletes" while I'm not sure that is the case it may have some merit..


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    #70
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,617 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    NIMAN wrote: »
    There are some deluded people about.

    Yes, indeed. Especially the ones ready to hang a man without a shred of actual verifiable proof of doping...


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    #71
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    walshb wrote: »
    And?

    Like I said. Guilty of nothing other than maybe poor judgment...

    He didn’t abandon Salazar until charges brought...

    Maybe he felt some sense of loyalty and friendship. Only natural..

    Poor judgement my arse.

    https://www.runnersworld.com/news/g29323802/alberto-salazar-nike-oregon-project-doping/

    https://deadspin.com/mo-farah-who-is-definitely-definitely-not-a-doper-rep-1823885848

    walshb wrote: »
    Yes, indeed. Especially the ones ready to hang a man without a shred of actual verifiable proof of doping...

    You sound just like Lance Armstrong.


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    #72
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,617 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    STB. wrote: »
    Poor judgement my arse.

    https://www.runnersworld.com/news/g29323802/alberto-salazar-nike-oregon-project-doping/

    https://deadspin.com/mo-farah-who-is-definitely-definitely-not-a-doper-rep-1823885848




    You sound just like Lance Armstrong.

    Get back to me when the story of Mo’s cheating breaks, pal!


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    #73
    Ceepo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,510 ✭✭✭Ceepo


    walshb wrote: »
    His age and performances? What about them?

    Nothing suspect whatsoever for anyone who knows sport...

    Yeah age is just a number, look at 37 year old Gatlin running 9.89


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    #74
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,617 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Ceepo wrote: »
    Yeah age is just a number, look at 37 year old Gatlin running 9.89

    What has a 37 year old Gatlin to do with Mo, who ran his PBS aged 29/30/31?

    And of course, for the marathon, mid 30s


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    #75
    Ceepo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,510 ✭✭✭Ceepo


    walshb wrote: »
    What has a 37 year old Gatlin to do with Mo, who ran his PBS aged 29/30/31?

    And of course, for the marathon, mid 30s

    Of course Gatlin has nothing to do with Mo, just saying that age wasnt a factor


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    #76
    Sinbad_NI
    Registered Users Posts: 1,059 ✭✭✭Sinbad_NI


    Sacksian wrote: »
    Really satisfying to see this. It may be bit like cutting a head off a hydra, but at least it shows that the sport is willing to tackle practices that undermine its integrity.

    ....

    IMO athletics has done as little as it could get away with.
    Was this not all USADA’s work.

    I’d be very confident that the athletics top brass would like it to all appear clean without headlines like this.


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    #77
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    walshb wrote: »
    Get back to me when the story of Mo’s cheating breaks, pal!


    ho ho ho. Straight out of a book that quote.

    Salazar has my sympathies though. It must have been challenging to get such a gang of misfit asthmatics to reach the highest levels of sporting achievements.

    I was never a fan of Ewan McKenna, but his sarcastic piece from last year nails it in my view. Although I probably have a little more scepticism towards the integrity of athletics having read far too many investigative books on sports doping.

    You should also read the runnersworld link, I linked earlier, its a fascinating timeline.


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    #78
    Big Ears
    Registered Users Posts: 8,967 ✭✭✭Big Ears


    I think what Walshb is saying, is that until proven otherwise, Farah has to be held in the same esteem as other clean athletes who were great champions, such as Alan Wells or Flo Jo


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    #79
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,617 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Big Ears wrote: »
    I think what Walshb is saying, is that until proven otherwise, Farah has to be held in the same esteem as other clean athletes who were great champions, such as Alan Wells or Flo Jo

    Lumping in Mo with Flo Jo is well off..


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    #80
    Ceepo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,510 ✭✭✭Ceepo


    Big Ears wrote: »
    I think what Walshb is saying, is that until proven otherwise, Farah has to be held in the same esteem as other clean athletes who were great champions, such as Alan Wells or Flo Jo

    This killed me ;)


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    #81
    Sinbad_NI
    Registered Users Posts: 1,059 ✭✭✭Sinbad_NI


    Big Ears wrote: »
    I think what Walshb is saying, is that until proven otherwise, Farah has to be held in the same esteem as other clean athletes who were great champions, such as Alan Wells or Flo Jo

    Haha.
    That list could be very long.


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    #82
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    walshb wrote: »
    Lumping in Mo with Flo Jo is well off..

    Why would you say that, Flo Jo was a clean athlete like Mo?


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    #83
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,617 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    average_runner wrote: »
    Why would you say that, Flo Jo was a clean athlete like Mo?

    Yes, she was...why the question mark?

    Never failed tests.

    But if you analyse both of them and their careers, eras, times etc etc etc, they are different...there's a lot more to get behind if you wated to smear Flo Jo.

    It just requires research; hell, even I am very skeptical on her.

    I am not near as skeptical on Mo.

    You're being deliberately obtuse it seems...


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    #84
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,617 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Slow_Runner wrote: »
    Not at all surprising, this now puts a question mark on all NOP athletes. Feel sorry for any clean athlete (if any) in that group.
    Will be interesting to see what Nike do now if the appeal fails

    Interesting question...

    Do people not believe that it's possible that some athletes that were involved with Salazar were/are clean?

    Kind of seems ridiculous to me that ALL have to be cheaters, because he has been shown to be.

    All can be labeled as showing poor judgment to be associated with him based off all the issues surrounding him, but that doesn't mean they deliberately cheated, or ingested PEDs.

    The amount of skepticism related to track and field is way OTT. I am talking more about the blanket throwing around that next to everyone is a cheat because these amazing athletes happen to be able to do amazing things, that us mere mortals can't.


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    #85
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    walshb wrote: »
    Yes, she was...why the question mark?

    Never failed tests.

    But if you analyse both of them and their careers, eras, times etc etc etc, they are different...there's a lot more to get behind if you wated to smear Flo Jo.

    It just requires research; hell, even I am very skeptical on her.

    I am not near as skeptical on Mo.

    You're being deliberately obtuse it seems...

    Just because you said you wouldn't lump them together.
    But they can be as both clean athletes.

    Might be some interesting questions about Jo but then again there is some interesting questions about Mo regarding his coaches, missing drug tests and Aden....

    Just questions


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    #86
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,617 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    average_runner wrote: »
    Just because you said you wouldn't lump them together.
    But they can be as both clean athletes.

    Might be some interesting questions about Jo but then again there is some interesting questions about Mo regarding his coaches, missing drug tests and Aden....

    Just questions

    You need to factor in performances, times, the eras they competed in

    Flo Jo was worlds ahead of the next best at 100 and 200.....

    She was running insanely fast times for a woman, that have not been touched, 30 + years later.

    Add in the almost non existent testing back in the mid to late 1980s, as well as her physical changes, her early retirement once mandatory OOC testing came in...

    Anyone saying she is remotely comparable with Mo is deliberately being obtuse, or else really stupid.

    Only thing that they have in common is that neither ever tested positive for banned substances...

    Though what I was always wondered was how come Flo Jo was so far ahead of the others, if the others (according to so many) were alos juicing? Was it because maybe Flo Jo was getting much better juice, not obtainable by others?

    Look at her Seoul 100 final win. Very difficult to find any other single sports event where the winner was so dominant...

    Why were the others so far back?


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    #87
    Checkmate19
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Checkmate19


    Well most involved in the lance team new about it. Drugs is ripe in sport. The drugs are evolving all the time. Epo was only found as it was sent to the testers. The sports that are cleaner are due to less testing. Where there is big money involved there will be cheaters. Athletics has a massive problem. It wont go away till the punishments are harsher. Cycling had a massive problem which has improved.


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    #88
    Ceepo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,510 ✭✭✭Ceepo


    walshb wrote: »
    Interesting question...

    Do people not believe that it's possible that some athletes that were involved with Salazar were/are clean?

    Kind of seems ridiculous to me that ALL have to be cheaters, because he has been shown to be.

    All can be labeled as showing poor judgment to be associated with him based off all the issues surrounding him, but that doesn't mean they deliberately cheated, or ingested PEDs.

    The amount of skepticism related to track and field is way OTT. I am talking more about the blanket throwing around that next to everyone is a cheat because these amazing athletes happen to be able to do amazing things, that us mere mortals can't.
    I and probably a lot of others were sceptical of Mo and his improvement long before the Salazar news broke out in 2015...
    Is it possible that he couldn't make the top 50 of a world junior xc or make a final of a championship and then become a world beater and dominate mid distance events when he change coach at 27 or what ever age he was... maybe...
    Then when you hear of Salazar and it has to be said his shadey practices, then people will look on things a lot more cynical.. do you honestly think he was testing testosterone patches on his own son to see how much would raise a red flag on the off chance someone Might rub a patch on one of his athletes? Or contact Lance A to tell him he had a better method of administering L-c? Why would he even be testing to see if administering L-c outside of the permitted doses and time frame if he wasnt going to use it on any of his athletes?
    Whether Mo, Rupp, Hassan or any other athletes doped we may never find out unless they test positive. Does it mean we cant or shouldn't ask question..
    Unfortunately athletics has a history of doping. Is it right we question what we believe are outstanding performance, of course it is imo...

    There are a number of outstanding performance from NOP athletes over the years. Do you think NOP are to running what Sky were to cycling with their marginal gains, As one cycling director of sportif put it, do you think we didn't think of the 1%.
    Do you think we shouldn't question the performance of Kenyan, Ethiopia athletes when they have almost zero testing system, or question why a small island in the Caribbean again with almso zero testing with the population of Ireland dominated sprints event for a few years. Or why the fastest man on the planet that has a link to a very dubious German doctor since he was 16 is faster than then 10 men behind him that by the way most of that 10 have * beside there name,
    This doesnt mean they all doped, but I think we have every right to be sceptical..


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    #89
    Ceepo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,510 ✭✭✭Ceepo


    walshb wrote: »
    Very difficult to find any other single sports event where the winner was so dominant...

    Womens marathon time ??


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    #90
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,617 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    No issue with anyone questioning or being suspicious, sure I am that myself.

    But seems here, historically, so many are so wanting Mo to be a cheat. There is a real hostility.

    You mention outstanding performances....to whom? The fans, other elites, joe soaps sitting on the couch munching on junk food?

    They are world class athletes. They are running the fastest times in the world. That is their job.

    Mo has never ran what I would call off the charts times.....

    He no single outdoor WR.

    My question was asking is it not at all possible/believable that even with Salazar as coach, that some athletes were clean and honest and above cheating?


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    #91
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,617 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Ceepo wrote: »
    Womens marathon time ??

    No.....

    Excellent time, but it's a marathon; long and slow....

    Flo Jo put 4-5 meters between her and her opponents over 100 meters...and it was how she accelerated away as well....looked so superior.

    Bolt in Beijing comes close....100 and 200.


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