Why do Irish people support English teams?

odyssey06 wrote: »

If Everton played Bohemians in a European game, and you're from Phibsborough you would kinda be expected to be cheering for Bohs.
If you are from Clontarf or Donegal, there'd be no expectations. If you are from Killybegs likely you'd be expected to cheer for Everton.

But the fella from Phibsboro is statistically more likely to be an Everton supporter because they won the FA Cup in 1995 or something

Players cannot simply pick and choose what country to play for out of all the countries in the world, they have to meet defined eligibility criteria.
Once they have played a competitive match for a country as an adult, they are locked into that country for life.
If they have eligibility to multiple countries, they have a choice as to which country to declare for. There is no transfer fee, no waiting for contract to expire. It is an entirely personal decision.
Declan Rice could opt for England or Ireland, he couldn't opt for Netherlands. He currently plays for West Ham, he could in future play for Ajax or PSV.

But if any player lives in a country continuously for five years regardless of any connection he can play for that country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_eligibility_rules#Modern_changes

FIFA article 7 (d)
He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant association.

If you were from Luxembourg, cheering on Netherlands would be more understandable, I guess because the country you'd be expected to cheer for, even if they are in same pyramid, aren't (even periodically) at the same competitive level as Netherlands. If ROI didn't quality for a finals competitions, cheering on Netherlands would also be totally understandable. But if Ireland are playing Netherlands in a playoff, it will be thought strange for an Irish person to want Netherlands to win. But it's a free country, you are free to do that and people are free to think that's a little strange.

If you move to the Netherlands, live there for at least a year and pick up a slight Dutch accent, you'd probably be alright either way!

Exactly, but it is not strange for an Irish person who never lived in England to cheer on an English club over his local club for example -
A fella from Tallaght shouting for Liverpool against Shamrock Rovers.
It is odd I think, that the fans have an unwritten rule at international leval and it is free for all at club level.

odyssey06 wrote: »

Why do Bohemians have higher attendances when they are at top of the table?
If Shelbourne get promoted back to Premier Division, should they insist only people who attended in Division One can get in?
Should they turn away any new fans as insulting to real fans?

Why even bother attending a Bohemians and Shelbourne, if they don't care about the level watch an even more local team like Home Farm or Fairview CY?

Based on your model of real football fans, there should be an equal distribution of real fans according to how local the team is.
Bohemians shouldn't have more fans than a team in the Leinster Senior League.

They can support both as they are football fans and enjoy games Leinster Senior League, Bohs whoever.

Example Stephen Ward.
A fella from Portmarock might follow his career and support/follow the teams he plays for.
Because Ward used to play for Portmarock in the Leinster Senior league, then the Portmarock fella follows Bohs/Wolves/Burnley etc as a result.

That seems far more logical to me.
But a lot of Irish Premier League league supporters just have thier Premier League top six team.
That is the point I am making it is not a natural football supporter as an Irish Premier League supporter, it is not organic. The attraction is more based on prestige more than any connection.

8-10 wrote: »

Some people just can't understand that you can't dictate what people choose to do in a free society and want to impose their view of what should be acceptable as unwritten rules that everybody should follow.

We continually give reasons on this thread about why we support English teams, but seems more like we're being judged for doing so rather than helping the questioners understand the mentality.

It's pretty cut and dry as I see it.

People are allowed disagree with you.

FitzShane wrote: »

Why do Irish people support NFL teams?
Why do Irish people watch and enjoy tennis and have favourite players such as Serena Williams or Rafa Nadal instead of James McGee (who I had to google if there was any Irish tennis players )?
Why do Irish people watch Formula 1 and pick Mercedes over Jordan?
Why do Irish people play cricket, and then chose to play for Englans?
Why do Irish people watch NBA basketball and support the Chicago Bulls instead of Moycullen?
Why do Irish people watch and enjoy golf, and have golfers such as Speith as thir favorite, rather than Rory McIlroy with his changing allegiance?

By NFL you mean Ameircan football I don't follow it.
I am not into Tennis and don't follow that at all - are the players representing a place or themselves?
I know Davis Cup is the only international tennis tournament barring the Olympics

Formula one. I can remember following it a bit when Eddie Jordan was there with Eddie Irivine. Because they were felas from the island of Ireland.
And it was the first time I ever heard of Ireland spoken of in a formula one context.
There was anthems at the end if there was a podium finish.
But I lost interest fairly quickly when Eddie Jordan sold his team.
I have not watched formula one since I think.
So it is proven I was not really a fan of the sport at all, it was just a curiosity for me while Jordan was there.

I don't follow Cricket but I know the Eoin Morgan move was a 'career move' he said so himself.

Back in the 80's there was a basketball craze in Ireland - NBA was on channel 4.
But there was great interest in local teams Ballina Stephenites and Killester among the Basketball fraternity.

I am not really into Golf but again - in most competitions don't golfers represent themselves rather than thier country?
It is not a place they represent not matter how often the News readers say 'best of the Irish'
There are no anthems at the end when they lift the cup.

There is no 'place' element in golf Except Ryder Cup/Olympics (Mcllroy controversy)

odyssey06 wrote: »

Could Declan Rice play for The Netherlands in their next game?
Why not?

Could he play for Ajax in their next game, if they agreed terms and transfer fee with West Ham?
Why?
See how club football and international football are different?

That is fine from the playing sense, but there is still enormous freedom to change allegiance.

But in the supporting sense I do not understand the difference.

I am not allowed to support Holland over Ireland.

Yet Rice can play for Ireland 3 times, switch to England.
He could also have moved to Holland lived there for 5 years straight and played for them.

But a Premier League Irish fan can randomly pick a team if they wish. no bother. No one bats an eyelid.
Rice can do what he likes, there is a bit of tension.

But I would be looked on as a 'head the ball' as an Dub if I supported Holland over Ireland.

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Personally I can’t understand how folk can watch loads of soccer matches that they have no emotional investment in. I understand that folk want to root for their team and are highly invested in it, and that in itself is a form of entertainment, but how do people sit down and watch the likes of Burnley v West Ham or Huddersfield v Southampton.

Every now and again there are games which do entertain, the CL semi-finals for example, but 9 out of 10 soccer games on TV are incredibly boring.

To me, the emperor has no clothes.

An Irish top six premier league fan would not watch these games unless he has money on it as an accumulator /has players in the game from his/her fantasy football team.
They only care about the top of the table stuff.

Omackeral wrote: »

I've never been in a pub for FA Cup final day but I have seen people over here give out yards on Facebook. ''Why are they playing that f*cking anthem, horrible''. Well pal, Manchester is in England and that's the anthem they use. It's the English cup final... their final, not yours.

RobMc59 wrote: »

You sound quite bitter and would probably make a good Everton fan:)

What exactly sounds ''bitter'' in the post you quoted? Honestly baffled by that.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

says who?

Says Irish society, and the unwritten football supporter rules.

Plus Rcihie Sadlier wrote a great piece how he picked Rangers as his team as a young lad because he liked Ally McCoist.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/footballs-senseless-bigotry-hasnt-gone-away-you-know-26726387.html

That was frowned upon as well, even though both Rangers and Celtic are British teams! Both of them pay taxes (even Rangers now ) to HM revenue and customs.

It is the same type of thing, there are crazy unwritten rules and mental gymnastics, when it comes to the Irish football supporter of British teams.

RobMc59 wrote: »

You sound quite bitter and would probably make a good Everton fan:)

Omackeral wrote: »

What exactly sounds ''bitter'' in the post you quoted? Honestly baffled by that.

He was playing on the phrase used by others to describe Everton fans, especially used by Liverpool fans.

Everton have also appropriated the term to describe themselves -

https://www.reddit.com/r/Everton/comments/60mkgu/why_the_bbc_makes_us_bitter_blues/

Here is a man united forum which discusses thier honest feelings about local fans v foreign fans of the club

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/local-vs-foreign-based-supporters.3380/

I found another article where a Liverpool FC 'club liaison officer' is trying to give the message that all LFC fans -

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2018/10/how-liverpool-fc-approach-the-foreign-vs-local-fans-debate-and-why-jurgen-klopp-is-key/

The Liaison officer says -

'Anyone who commits themselves to supporting Liverpool, in whatever way that may be, is worthy of the utmost respect.'



I assume that is code for we will take your money from wherever you or from no matter how you support the club.




'There are supporters who don’t buy anything, which is fair enough, and there are supporters who buy everything but don’t go to the match.

“So how do you classify these people and how do you treat them differently?

“People have an affection for Liverpool and they want to support them in whatever way that may be. That guarantees them a level of instant respect from me.'


But on this LFC forum on Reddit there is a key phrase for me that jumps out-

'Who's trying too hard to be a scouser?'

(Written by a Norwegian LFC fan!)


https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/20roal/scousers_your_general_feelings_on_foreign/

Remember when Des Cahill used to bore us all to death with tales of his "beloved Reading"!

I knew chap who was a Halifax supporter, from having spent summers over there with one of his aunts in the 70s. I can appreciate that sort of thing!

The funniest is when Irish Celtic fans slag off Irish fans for supporting the premiership

I don't understand why all Dublin soccer fans don't support Dundalk FC!?.... As it's the best team geographically to Dublin C'MON D TOWN

Deleted User wrote: »

And your opinion of those that wouldn't?

Well I would have more respect for those Irish fans PL fans who continue to support thier chosen team.
Like the Spurs fan on this thread he gives the impression that even if they went down a few divisions he would stick with them.
That is being more of a football fan, he is not just into the glamour brand/product.

But the reality is the chances of any of the 'top six' being relegated is very slim.
Especially given the financial gulf between the PL teams and Championship teams these days.

In England there are at least a percentage of fans who support a larger team and thier smaller local team, or even just thier local team regardless of level.
It is those group that seem to at least get the community aspect of football.
Not being all about the glamour.

Because the Irish PL team supporter chose a team who are the cream of crop when they are 10, it is far, far easier for them to jump ship when times are bad.

Even those teams who have gone down one tier to the Championship -
Aston Villa and Leeds for example.
How many of those Irish fans do you see now?

The fella who was about 10 in the 70's who thought Giles, Bremner were the best. Maybe his favourite player was Alan Clarke when he won the FA Cup in 72?
How many of those Irish fans still give a damn about them?
How many Irish Villa fans who were about 10 in the 90's that still give a damn about Villa now.
I mean it was great when they were challenging at the top of the PL. There was plenty of Irish interest. McGrath, Townsend, Saunton and Houghton.

Or the Irish people who started supporting Sunderland when Roy Keane managed them.
How many of those Irish 'fans' are still with the team?

By it's very nature (picking a top tier team and mostly top 6 and distance involved) the Irish PL fan, can be one of most insincere fans in sport - if things turn for the worst.
It seems to go against the true nature of the sport itself even the chant 'I'm xyz till I die?'
Really?
Your xyz until your team gets relegated more like!
The brand deprecates then.

So the Irish PL fan does not go through the natural 'suffering' that most other teams supporters of local teams experience.
It is easy being a fan of a team that is in contention for Europe, and silverware each year.
The teams are bigger and better, the team is world renowned, the stadium and facilities are superb, European games, trophies etc
They don't take the good with bad they just want the good times.

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Plenty of us around still G, just been through 3 years of Championship.

I know a few of the other sort you are talking about too though, lads who change club depending on success. Each to their own.

Fair play to you for sticking with it anyway.
In fairness I know there are bandwagon supporters in every sport and every country.
But by thier very nature I think that most Irish PL fans are particularly mercenary breed.
First sign of serious trouble and most would drop the team, or lose interest, and not be as 'emotionally involved' as they claimed the when it was a top side.
Those type are not natural football fans in my book.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well I would have more respect for those Irish fans PL fans who continue to support thier chosen team.
Like the Spurs fan on this thread he gives the impression that even if they went down a few divisions he would stick with them.
That is being more of a football fan, he is not just into the glamour brand/product.

But the reality is the chances of any of the 'top six' being relegated is very slim.
Especially given the financial gulf between the PL teams and Championship teams these days.

In England there are at least a percentage of fans who support a larger team and thier smaller local team, or even just thier local team regardless of level.
It is those group that seem to at least get the community aspect of football.
Not being all about the glamour.

Because the Irish PL team supporter chose a team who are the cream of crop when they are 10, it is far, far easier for them to jump ship when times are bad.

Even those teams who have gone down one tier to the Championship -
Aston Villa and Leeds for example.
How many of those Irish fans do you see now?

The fella who was about 10 in the 70's who thought Giles, Bremner were the best. Maybe his favourite player was Alan Clarke when he won the FA Cup in 72?
How many of those Irish fans still give a damn about them?
How many Irish Villa fans who were about 10 in the 90's that still give a damn about Villa now.
I mean it was great when they were challenging at the top of the PL. There was plenty of Irish interest. McGrath, Townsend, Saunton and Houghton.

Or the Irish people who started supporting Sunderland when Roy Keane managed them.
How many of those Irish 'fans' are still with the team?

By it's very nature (picking a top tier team and mostly top 6 and distance involved) the Irish PL fan, can be one of most insincere fans in sport - if things turn for the worst.
It seems to go against the true nature of the sport itself even the chant 'I'm xyz till I die?'
Really?
Your xyz until your team gets relegated more like!
The brand deprecates then.

So the Irish PL fan does not go through the natural 'suffering' that most other teams supporters of local teams experience.
It is easy being a fan of a team that is in contention for Europe, and silverware each year.
The teams are bigger and better, the team is world renowned, the stadium and facilities are superb, European games, trophies etc
They don't take the good with bad they just want the good times.

How many of these people do you actually know because i've never met one. I even know somebody who still supports Blackburn the poor sod.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Fair play to you for sticking with it anyway.
In fairness I know there are bandwagon supporters in every sport and every country.
But by thier very nature I think that most Irish PL fans are particularly mercenary breed.

Yep I see it a lot with Malaysian fans, I work with City fans who wore United jerseys a few years ago over there.

But again, it's up to them, I just talk City to them now instead of United. If they want to change next year again then go ahead, why should the rest of us care?

8-10 wrote: »

Yep I see it a lot with Malaysian fans, I work with City fans who wore United jerseys a few years ago over there.

But again, it's up to them, I just talk City to them now instead of United. If they want to change next year again then go ahead, why should the rest of us care?

But my point is that type of support is not from a real fan standpoint.
They are more supporters of a brand rather than the actual team itself.
When the brand loses its value/street cred they lose interest.
Like the example I gave earlier with iphone they want the latest thing.

But in a really odd roundabout way those teams need these fans to maintain thier global brand and revenue.
Even if they just buy merchandise.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But my point is that type of support is not from a real fan standpoint.

There's no such thing as this "real fan" except in the unwritten rules of people who care about what other people do with their lives.

Anyone wearing a Liverpool shirt is fine by me whatever their reasons - I consider them a fan/supporter