US congresswomen refuse to condemn brutal attack on ICE facility.

17-07-2019 4:06pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

No I don't. An organisation, like Fox for example has an agenda to push. That's not legitimate news/journalism.
I do but with almost the entire Republican party supporting a racist, it's debatable in the U.S.

If they give them attention they give them notoriety. It's the people asking not the question IMO.

Every media organisation has an agenda.... Straight up video of politicians refusing to condemn an attack may be part of their agenda, but it happened. It's not on CNN I presume because it makes them look bad.

And "it's the people asking the question" is the most bizarre argument I've ever heard in my life. If you only accept responses to journalists who are on both your side and the politician's side, you're living in an echo chamber. It's not always about distorting facts. It's about certain news never even making it onto one side of the news.

Do you honestly only ever accept American news from Democrat-friendly sources, lest they be tainted?

end of the road · 17-07-2019 4:06pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Eveb though prevvious presidents detained people , trump is getting the brunt of it,

previous presidents just detained people until their application was heard and a decision made, which was quite quickly. they didn't separate children from their parents or with-hold them upon the release of the parents.
trump on the other hand is detaining people for unknown periods of time, separating children from their parents, keeping them all in concentration camp like conditions, and now apparently keeping children dispite their parents being released.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

but the real solution here is for illegal immigrants to take personal responsibility and not come in to the country.

yes, immigrants should take personal responsibility and stay in whatever danger or bad situation they are in rather then trying to seek a better life.
yes, it would be great to live in a world where every country is perfect and there is no need for immigration, but we don't. so it's not up to immigrants to take personal responsibility and not seek a better life to avoid being held in concentration camp like conditions. it's up to the country where they are going to insure there is a proper system in place to hear their application and make a decision. if they are being detained, then it should be in reasonable conditions, and only for the duration while their application is heard and decision made, or if there is an appeals process, until that process is concluded, which should be done so within a reasonable time frame.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Trump is also trying to stem the flow with the wall but ofcourse thats opposed too.

the flow is over exaggerated by trump for the benefit of his support base. the wall is just an expensive waste of money which won't do anything because the border security already have a handle on the issue. they aren't going to be able to stop everyone and neither would a wall.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

To anyone condemning the detention of migrants, whats the solution (and not one that allows more migrants to enter / existing ones stay)

the solution is to get around to their application in a reasonable manner, and make a decision. to not separate and with-hold these people's children, especially when they have been released.

James Brown · 17-07-2019 4:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Every media organisation has an agenda.... Straight up video of politicians refusing to condemn an attack may be part of their agenda, but it happened. It's not on CNN I presume because it makes them look bad.

And "it's the people asking the question" is the most bizarre argument I've ever heard in my life. If you only accept responses from journalists who are on both your side and the politician's side, you're living in an echo chamber. It's not always about distorting facts. It's about certain news never even making it onto one side of the news.

Do you honestly only ever accept American news from Democrat-friendly sources, lest they be tainted?

I've explained it at length, if you find it bizarre I suggest you re-read my comments. A fringe biased right wing 'journalist' has their profile raised if a congressperson answers their question. It's very basic.

No I check a few sources and make up my own opinion based on that, I'm not a democrat or racist republican Trump stooge.

Hobosan · 17-07-2019 4:11pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Why does the definition matter?
How would it detract from the sentiment?

If a black South African is telling a white South African to go back to Europe is he not a racist?

No, that's just good advice. White children are being boiled alive and thrown into crocodile pits over there.

Many white farmers are fleeing the place and have been granted refugee status.

Bring told to head to Europe is common sense.

splinter65 · 17-07-2019 4:14pm

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

I would prefer that they win, yes. Any of them are better than the current fascist. But the move to the left is something popular with a segment of voters, who backed Bernie Sanders, despite the party blocking him as best they could.

What can you point out that Trump has done since being elected that justifies your allegation that he is a fascist ? Just tell me 3 things that he has introduced that weren’t there before he was elected that point to fascism ala Mussolini and Stalin and Hitler.

Hobosan · 17-07-2019 4:15pm

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

I would prefer that they win, yes. Any of them are better than the current fascist. But the move to the left is something popular with a segment of voters, who backed Bernie Sanders, despite the party blocking him as best they could.

Bernie was also against immigration. The fascist!

17-07-2019 4:16pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I've explained it at length, if you find it bizarre I suggest you re-read my comments. A fringe biased right wing 'journalist' has their profile raised if a congressperson answers their question. It's very basic.

No I check a few sources and make up my own opinion based on that, I'm not a democrat or racist republican Trump stooge.

How "fringe" can you honestly be if you have access to these politicians? It was a simple question requiring a simple answer. Not giving it raises the profile of the journalist's organisation way more.. It's similar to the Barbra Streisand effect.

And honestly, the vast majority like myself would generally look at their refusal as a disgrace. You guys need to realise you are not representative of any population.

splinter65 · 17-07-2019 4:21pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It's debunked move on before you embarrass yourself further

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/aoc-empty-parking-lot/

She wasn’t crying at an empty car park she was crying at an entrance to an ICE facility “way over there”? But there were no children or anyone that she saw. The idea of the children in the ICE facility made her cry.
Gotcha.
That put me straight!

meeeeh · 17-07-2019 4:26pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And honestly, the vast majority like myself would generally look at their refusal as a disgrace. You guys need to realise you are not representative of any population.

Do you have any research that supports that or is it just because you think vast majority agrees with you? And because you think that it must be true.

I would guess vast majority of people don't care.

notobtuse · 17-07-2019 4:30pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It's debunked move on before you embarrass yourself further

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/aoc-empty-parking-lot/

Ask yourself… with all the media in attendance why are there NO pictures to be found of the ‘tent city’ that caused her to cry in her view? I’m very cautious of Snopes (and other so-called fact checker websites) as it has been observed that Snopes writers are in the habit of injecting editorial language or opinions into their 'fact checks.' Were any of the Snopes writers in attendance at the AOC crying photoshoot? If not, how can they categorically state that it is false when all photographic evidence out there seems to prove otherwise... Crystal ball? And if she was crying at merely the 'thought' of children held in the facilities, she could have cried over it in her luxury apartment overlooking her evil garbage disposal, sans cameras.

Billy Mays · 17-07-2019 4:31pm

notobtuse wrote: »

Billy Mays wrote: »

When Donald Trump fans come out with sentences like this

It's okay... I know the truth hurts!

Nah, it's the irony that hurts

17-07-2019 4:32pm

meeeeh wrote: »

Do you have any research that supports that or is it just because you think vast majority agrees with you? And because you think that it must be true.

I would guess vast majority of people don't care.

I would imagine that if you showed those videos to 100 people who had knowledge of the attack, the vast majority would find their silence disgraceful.

This is a debate and I'm laying out my opinion which I believe to be true based on my day-to-day life. I don't need research and I'm not in a position to conduct it anyway. I know that the majority of people would not resort to "But Trump said ___ so it's ok.", or "But the question was from the right.", like others here.

steddyeddy · 17-07-2019 4:34pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I would imagine that if you showed those videos to 100 people who had knowledge of the attack, the vast majority would find their silence disgraceful.

This is a debate and I'm laying out my opinion which I believe to be true based on my day-to-day life. I don't need research and I'm not in a position to conduct it anyway. I know that the majority of people would not resort to "But Trump said ___ so it's ok.", or "But the question was from the right.", like others here.

You can't tell me Trump supporters would find it disgraceful though?

meeeeh · 17-07-2019 4:35pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I would imagine that if you showed those videos to 100 people who had knowledge of the attack, the vast majority would find their silence disgraceful.

This is a debate and I'm laying out my opinion which I believe to be true based on my day-to-day life. I don't need research and I'm not in a position to conduct it anyway. I know that the majority of people would not resort to "But Trump said ___ so it's ok.", or "But the question was from the right.", like others here.

And other believe theirs is true based on their day to day life. That doesn't mean either yours or other people's opinion is based on anything more than wishful thinking.

17-07-2019 4:37pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

You can't tell me Trump supporters would find it disgraceful though?

I'm confused.. Would you mind rewording this?

This is in Trump supporters' interest to find it disgraceful, but your question to me makes it sound like I couldn't tell you they would.

Faugheen · 17-07-2019 4:39pm

Another thread about men bitching and moaning about a woman who is making the right noises and is sticking it to the old dinosaurs in US politics.

Absolute sad cases.

17-07-2019 4:39pm

meeeeh wrote: »

And other believe theirs is true based on their day to day life. That doesn't mean either yours or other people's opinion is based on anything more than wishful thinking.

We're in Ireland. Every political party and politician routinely condemns every terrorist attack that happens. It's largely the same around the world.

notobtuse · 17-07-2019 4:39pm

Billy Mays wrote: »

Nah, it's the irony that hurts

You know what they say... Neither irony nor sarcasm is argument.

splinter65 · 17-07-2019 4:40pm

If people think that the libs overracted when Trump was elected in 2016, I can only imagine the meltdown when he’s re elected in 2020.
These incidents with AOC and Ilhan in particular are just grist for the mill for the Republicans.
Is there really nothing can be done to reel these two in to prevent them from doing any more damage?

17-07-2019 4:41pm

Faugheen wrote: »

Another thread about men bitching and moaning about a woman who is making the right noises and is sticking it to the old dinosaurs in US politics.

Absolute sad cases.

Silence isn't sticking it to anyone. It's waiting to get back to your PR so you can decide what's the best thing to say.

Danzy · 17-07-2019 4:41pm

Calhoun wrote: »

Aren't these 4 targeting other non-white legislators in the Democratic party ?

They seem to be quite dangerous and divide as much as Trump does.

They are, bit too much of a thing, targeting people who they feel should fall in behind in line and if they do not, they must be Uncle Toms.

That said, at this stage There are few that they have not fallen out with to some degree or other.

They are as divisive as Trump but they focus a Lot on their party colleagues and others who are in or part of the Democrat family.

It's a big difference.

It has destroyed Left wing movements for decades.

Danzy · 17-07-2019 4:43pm

splinter65 wrote: »

If people think that the libs overracted when Trump was elected in 2016, I can only imagine the meltdown when he’s re elected in 2020.
These incidents with AOC and Ilhan in particular are just grist for the mill for the Republicans.
Is there really nothing can be done to reel these two in to prevent them from doing any more damage?

Nope he saw to that this week.

He made them the official opposition and the Democrats have to suck it up. Must be disheartening for their ordinary member or voter.

splinter65 · 17-07-2019 4:45pm

Faugheen wrote: »

Another thread about men bitching and moaning about a woman who is making the right noises and is sticking it to the old dinosaurs in US politics.

Absolute sad cases.

She’s doing more to get Trump reelected in 2020 then any republican could do. She’s the current star of the Republican presidential campaign. Money couldn’t buy that kind of good publicity for Mr Trump.

Eric Cartman · 17-07-2019 4:46pm

Faugheen wrote: »

Another thread about men bitching and moaning about a woman who is making the right noises and is sticking it to the old dinosaurs in US politics.

Absolute sad cases.

Is that the identity politics wagon I hear a rolling :

Men bad , women good
Men bad, women good
Men bad, women good
Honk Honk.

17-07-2019 4:47pm

splinter65 wrote: »

She’s doing more to get Trump reelected in 2020 then any republican could do. She’s the current star of the Republican presidential campaign. Money couldn’t buy that kind of good publicity for Mr Trump.

Poisoned chalice for the Dems. Useful in the immediate short-term but a disaster long-term.

Faugheen · 17-07-2019 4:47pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Silence isn't sticking it to anyone. It's waiting to get back to your PR so you can decide what's the best thing to say.

What are you talking about?

People are link-dumping about her wearing a ****ing watch while she's as at the border.

These propaganda sites only write about those who they are threatened by. You think they'd comment about Trump playing golf while kids are trying to get guns out of their schools? Or would they ask appropriate questions of lobby groups that give a ****-tonne of money to conservatives to represent their interests even if it kills hundreds of people? Nah, they're more concerned about a watch that AOC is wearing.

Absolute fools. So are the people who are falling for it. AOC is ruffling feathers and none of the dinosaurs like it.

Faugheen · 17-07-2019 4:49pm

splinter65 wrote: »

She’s doing more to get Trump reelected in 2020 then any republican could do. She’s the current star of the Republican presidential campaign. Money couldn’t buy that kind of good publicity for Mr Trump.

Good publicity?

She literally caused him to essentially admit he's a racist.

Anyone who thinks Trump is a shoe-in is a fool. He'll lose Michigan and Wisconsin, and probably Pennsylvania too.

17-07-2019 4:49pm

Faugheen wrote: »

What are you talking about?

People are link-dumping about her wearing a ****ing watch while she's as at the border.

These propaganda sites only write about those who they are threatened by. You think they'd comment about Trump playing golf while kids are trying to get guns out of their schools? Or would they ask appropriate questions of lobby groups that give a ****-tonne of money to conservatives to represent their interests even if it kills hundreds of people? Nah, they're more concerned about a watch that AOC is wearing.

Absolute fools. So are the people who are falling for it. AOC is ruffling feathers and none of the dinosaurs like it.

I'm talking about the subject of this thread; the opening post. You're bringing in a lot of baggage about Trump which is irrelevant. Take your arguments about him somewhere else. AOC has nothing to do with Trump as she can't even run against him.

Dick phelan · 17-07-2019 4:51pm

AOC is a moron with zero understanding of economics or frankly anything, laughable that people think she's the future of anything positive. Omar is a vile anti Semite who now has the nerve to get all offended over getting a taste of her own medicine. Trump's a fool to be saying those things but you know you'd expect someone who was given refuge taken in out of kindness from America would have at least something positive to say about it. But America is so terrible, so awful racist etc. Your from Somalia, America is paradise on earth in comparison, you'd expect her to be more thankful.

meeeeh · 17-07-2019 4:51pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We're in Ireland. Every political party and politician routinely condemns every terrorist attack that happens. It's largely the same around the world.

Actually they don't. Nobody is going through the list of all terrorist attacks and condemns them.

Personally I find this complete vapid nonsense and I felt exactly the same about the outrage around Trump comments around Charlottesville.

Dick phelan · 17-07-2019 4:53pm

Also if they want to improve conditions on the boarder why don't they fund it. What they want is open boarders whereby anyone who likes can just cross over and it's not illegal. I don't believe such policy would fly with your average American, they like the idea of a secure boarder and sensible immigration policy.

steddyeddy · 17-07-2019 4:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm confused.. Would you mind rewording this?

This is in Trump supporters' interest to find it disgraceful, but your question to me makes it sound like I couldn't tell you they would.

It's not a hard sentence to understand. Trump's the president right now. Trump's supporters, a huge percentage of the country don't find a lot of what he does disgraceful. I can't believe that his supporters actually find anything AOC says disgraceful.

17-07-2019 4:55pm

meeeeh wrote: »

Actually they don't. Nobody is going through the list of all terrorist attacks and condemns them.

Personally I find this complete vapid nonsense and I felt exactly the same about the outrage around Trump comments around Charlottesville.

If a politician here refused to condemn a terrorist attack, it would be a very bad thing.. That's what I meant. I didn't mean that every politician goes out and makes an effort to do it.

17-07-2019 4:57pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's not a hard sentence to understand. Trump's the president right not. Trump's supporters, a huge percentage of the country don't find a lot of what he does disgraceful. I can't believe that his supporters actually find anything AOC says disgraceful.

In this case, they find what she doesn't say disgraceful.

meeeeh · 17-07-2019 4:57pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If a politician here refused to condemn a terrorist attack, it would be a very bad thing.. That's what I meant. I didn't mean that every politician goes out and makes an effort to do it.

She refused to answer the journalist not refused to condemn the act. Thats like saying that every woman who refuses to sleep with you hates sex.

Faugheen · 17-07-2019 4:58pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If a politician here refused to condemn a terrorist attack, it would be a very bad thing.. That's what I meant. I didn't mean that every politician goes out and makes an effort to do it.

She didn't 'refuse', she said she'd have a statement later.

Why are you so outraged and snowflake-y about that?

Am I doing this right?

notobtuse · 17-07-2019 4:58pm

Faugheen wrote: »

Good publicity?

She literally caused him to essentially admit he's a racist.

Anyone who thinks Trump is a shoe-in is a fool. He'll lose Michigan and Wisconsin, and probably Pennsylvania too.

I don't think Pennsylvania will flip. Outside of the Philadelphia and Pittsburgh area there remains much support for Trump in my state. I think the only way for Democrats to win back PA is to nominate a moderate candidate. Outside of the Philadelphia area instincts here are moderate and centrist. But since there isn’t a single moderate candidate in the democrat field I find it hard for them to take PA.

is_that_so · 17-07-2019 5:00pm

Faugheen wrote: »

Good publicity?

She literally caused him to essentially admit he's a racist.

Anyone who thinks Trump is a shoe-in is a fool. He'll lose Michigan and Wisconsin, and probably Pennsylvania too.

Hmm the "you're a fool" school of debate has never been terribly successful. Nobody is claiming he is but some people are drawing attention to the potential problems on the other side of the aisle of picking the wrong candidate. You also seem to be suggesting that anyone with a pulse will beat him.

Faugheen · 17-07-2019 5:04pm

is_that_so wrote: »

Hmm the "you're a fool" school of debate has never been terribly successful. Nobody is claiming he is but some people are drawing attention to the potential problems on the other side of the aisle of picking the wrong candidate. You also seem to be suggesting that anyone with a pulse will beat him.

I'm not suggesting that at all but go ahead and make things up like a good man.

Read my post, I was talking about those who think he's a shoe-in. I literally said those words.

Warren, Harris, Sanders, even Biden have the potential to beat him. Trump can win Florida and Ohio but still lose.

17-07-2019 5:07pm

meeeeh wrote: »

She refused to answer the journalist not refused to condemn the act. Thats like saying that every woman who refuses to sleep with you hates sex.

Bad analogy. And terrible reasoning skills.

Faugheen wrote: »

She didn't 'refuse', she said she'd have a statement later.

Why are you so outraged and snowflake-y about that?

Am I doing this right?

No, you're not. My interest in politics is anti-Brexit and anti-hysteria. I'm not a snowflake. One should not need time to release a statement regarding a terrorist attack. It's incredibly partisan in this case, and posters here are extremely biased. Derailment for so many posts and I'm just trying to bring it back to the thread's topic.

splinter65 · 17-07-2019 5:07pm

Faugheen wrote: »

Good publicity?

She literally caused him to essentially admit he's a racist.

Anyone who thinks Trump is a shoe-in is a fool. He'll lose Michigan and Wisconsin, and probably Pennsylvania too.

This is an example of how two people can look at the same thing and see two different things.
I’m not keen on either camp.
I’d like to see an independent some day make it past the two party system to get elected.
I’m kind of neutral.
But I’m sorry to burst your bubble, AOC is a disaster. She appears to be looking for the limelight and then getting it, in all the wrong ways....and then whinging and crying when the likes of Fox News very very easily put a spin on her antics to make her seem like a disaster.
That exchange between her and that senior ICE official at the committee hearing when he corrected her and she was left speechless? Disaster. The white jeans and the theatrical tears at the ICE facility when she couldn’t see anyone except some bewildered policemen? Disaster. The Green Deal? Disaster .

Faugheen · 17-07-2019 5:08pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm talking about the subject of this thread; the opening post. You're bringing in a lot of baggage about Trump which is irrelevant. Take your arguments about him somewhere else. AOC has nothing to do with Trump as she can't even run against him.

I'm talking about people link-dumping from conservative propaganda websites in this very thread about AOC wearing a watch and being outraged by it.

Why aren't you telling those posters using this thread as an AOC bitch-fest to piss off then, if you're so consistent at sticking to the topic at hand and not letting it descend into anything else?

You're happy to let people chat ****e about AOC that's not relevant to this thread but once anybody chats **** about The Donald it's one step too far.

is_that_so · 17-07-2019 5:09pm

Faugheen wrote: »

I'm not suggesting that at all but go ahead and make things up like a good man.

Read my post, I was talking about those who think he's a shoe-in. I literally said those words.

Warren, Harris, Sanders, even Biden have the potential to beat him. Trump can win Florida and Ohio but still lose.

And I pointed out that nobody does believe that but as incumbent the odds are still in his favour. Biden, Warren or maybe Harris. I don't think people will fall for the Bernie show a second time.

Faugheen · 17-07-2019 5:11pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Bad analogy. And terrible reasoning skills.

No, you're not. My interest in politics is anti-Brexit and anti-hysteria. I'm not a snowflake. One should not need time to release a statement regarding a terrorist attack. It's incredibly partisan in this case, and posters here are extremely biased. Derailment for so many posts and I'm just trying to bring it back to the thread's topic.

Actually if I was a politician and these right-wing propaganda websites were shoving camera's in my face and looking for any reason to spin what I said into something negative, you're damn right I'd tell them I'll be releasing a statement later.

You're taking these outlets at complete face-value here and if you're so anti-hysteria then why are you literally going off what hysteria sites are saying?

17-07-2019 5:14pm

Faugheen wrote: »

I'm talking about people link-dumping from conservative propaganda websites in this very thread about AOC wearing a watch and being outraged by it.

Why aren't you telling those posters using this thread as an AOC bitch-fest to piss off then, if you're so consistent at sticking to the topic at hand and not letting it descend into anything else?

You're happy to let people chat ****e about AOC that's not relevant to this thread but once anybody chats **** about The Donald it's one step too far.

I like most read the first couple of pages of a thread and then go to the last couple. I'm not going to drag up posts from 14 pages ago, which were about her faking tears, not a watch.

Even then, I'm not seeing your point. Is it that in any thread, Trump is relevant? Hardly a great hill to die on.

17-07-2019 5:15pm

Faugheen wrote: »

Actually if I was a politician and these right-wing propaganda websites were shoving camera's in my face and looking for any reason to spin what I said into something negative, you're damn right I'd tell them I'll be releasing a statement later.

You're taking these outlets at complete face-value here and if you're so anti-hysteria then why are you literally going off what hysteria sites are saying?

Anyone involved in politics should know that not condemning a terrorist attack when talking to the other side's media is the worst thing you could possibly do. This is amateur hour stuff.

Faugheen · 17-07-2019 5:18pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Anyone involved in politics should know that not condemning a terrorist attack when talking to the other side's media is the worst thing you could possibly do. This is amateur hour stuff.

Why are you buying into the hysteria then if you're so against it?

weldoninhio · 17-07-2019 5:20pm

Faugheen wrote: »

Another thread about men bitching and moaning about a woman who is making the right noises and is sticking it to the old dinosaurs in US politics.

Absolute sad cases.

Haha haha, the former head of ICE literally had to explain to her that entering the country ILLEGALLY, was ILLEGAL. She couldn’t get her head around it. Way to stick it to the man. Hahahaha

17-07-2019 5:24pm

Faugheen wrote: »

Why are you buying into the hysteria then if you're so against it?

Do I honestly sound hysterical in any of these posts?

steddyeddy · 17-07-2019 5:25pm

Deleted User wrote: »

In this case, they find what she doesn't say disgraceful.

They can't possibly. This is a man who called journalists as 'Enemies of the People', incited violence against journalists at his rallies and joked with Putin about having reporters killed.

They don't find anything she says offensive if they aren't offended by the above which is much worse.

US congresswomen refuse to condemn brutal attack on ICE facility.

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