The glorious 12th

Stop moaning ffs · 16-07-2019 10:51am

downcow wrote: »

Some of What I’ve learnt so far from you guys.

Paisley was in the OO up to 1962
The para flags and banners genuinely annoy some of you.
There is still incredible levels of misunderstanding and prejudice against my community in roi.
We all need to work harder at getting in the other’s shoes.

What I hope francie etc has learned.
Nationalists are being fed some utter nonsense about the community they share this island with.
Paisley did not form the independent OO
Contrary to nationalist urban myth, there has been less than two years this century when the NI first minister was also a member of the OO.
Arlene foster is not in the orange order.

What I think ‘stop moaning ffs’ has learnt
Nothing (sadly)

You haven’t offered anything other than cyclical repetitive questions that you refuse to answer yourself

You somehow think SF are running around killing people and how could anyone vote for them?
Can you qualify that please? And how it’s any different by your own ‘logic’ that the DUP are running around killing people and you game no problem voting for them?

downcow · 16-07-2019 10:53am

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

They do. Mary Lou is actually td for my area.
I’m not aware of her killing anyone though?
If you know something we don’t you should probably call the police.

This was your statement
“As far as I know none of the parties down this way run around killing people or drug running”
I would never expect that of mary Lou having been born with a silver spoon in her mouth and attending public school. But I assume you know sf claimed to be the political wing of the ira and you would hardly deny that they done a fair bit of that.

downcow · 16-07-2019 10:57am

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

You haven’t offered anything other than cyclical repetitive questions that you refuse to answer yourself

You somehow think SF are running around killing people and how could anyone vote for them?
Can you qualify that please? And how it’s any different by your own ‘logic’ that the DUP are running around killing people and you game no problem voting for them?

I think posters can judge for themselves who is and isn’t answering questions. It so obvious I don’t need to state it.

I don’t vote dup (if I’m honest I have done in the distant past)
I also think most people have educated themselves enough to know who was running around killing people.
Few up here can say they are squeaky clean. But the comparison you are making with sf and dup is ridiculous

Imreoir2 · 16-07-2019 11:00am

downcow wrote: »

There is still incredible levels of misunderstanding and prejudice against my community in roi.

When your community engages is an annual celebration, the centerpiece of which is a massive fire on which our national flag is regularly burned, your community is sending a message, and that message is understood well enough. That the leaders of your community do little or nothing to end this practice says alot about the prejudice rife in your community. People in glass houses should not throw stones.

FrancieBrady · 16-07-2019 11:01am

downcow wrote: »

Some of What I’ve learnt so far from you guys.

What I hope francie etc has learned.
Nationalists are being fed some utter nonsense about the community they share this island with.

Sorry, I am not seeing this, so please do not infer it is something I have 'learned' from you.

Paisley did not form the independent OO

Accepted.

Contrary to nationalist urban myth, there has been less than two years this century when the NI first minister was also a member of the OO.
Arlene foster is not in the orange order.

As usual on this forum, anecdote is not enough. I supplied this link which states 'Arlene is a committed member of the Order'

In May 2018, she announced she would be leading an Orange Order march in Fife, Scotland. As a committed member of the Order, this was a reason behind the original defection from the UUP ten years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlene_Foster

It is up to you to supply a link to debunk that.

FrancieBrady · 16-07-2019 11:04am

downcow wrote: »

having been born with a silver spoon in her mouth and attending public school.

That never stopped some of the British army!

*You kinda walked yourself into that one in your haste to get a dig in.

Stop moaning ffs · 16-07-2019 11:06am

downcow wrote: »

I think posters can judge for themselves who is and isn’t answering questions. It so obvious I don’t need to state it.

I don’t vote dup (if I’m honest I have done in the distant past)
I also think most people have educated themselves enough to know who was running around killing people.
Few up here can say they are squeaky clean. But the comparison you are making with sf and dup is ridiculous

NI is a bike.
Unionists own one wheel. Nationalists own the other. They’re both blaming each other for the breaking of the bike. When in fact they’re both responsible as they were trying to cycle in different directions.
That needs to stop. Down as far as you finger pointing really pathetically trying to associate Mary Lou with murder.
You just did that.
To what end I still can’t figure out.

*The bike is going to be taken back by London or Dublin and both wheels made to go in the same direction. Like it or not.
Can’t see either side being happy but if yis can’t work together and get over the finger pointing and blame game, yis don’t get to play on the bike

lawred2 · 16-07-2019 11:15am

downcow wrote: »

Do the shinners not stand in your area?

that's just pathetic

firemansam4 · 16-07-2019 11:18am

downcow wrote:

Are you equally sickened by how anyone could vote for people who have murdered their civilian neighbours or are you less sqeemish when it was the other sort they murdered.? You are trying to be simplistic and itâ€™s not simple

You say I'm being too simplistic but I think it is you who are being too simplistic.

Myself I detest anyone who kills innocent human beings no mater what background.

However at the time these IRA men got all the support they did was at the height of the troubles, many people in Catholic communities felt that these men were standing up for their rights against the British. Bloody Sunday itself was a massive recruiter for the IRA, it turned many peoples opinions.

We are now well past those days and bar a very small few dissedents, the war is well over, so there should be no place to show any support for anyone who has openly admitted and not even being a bit repentant about murdering innocent people.

Stop moaning ffs · 16-07-2019 11:24am

Downcow you should also be aware just because someone is Irish doesn’t mean they support SF

Quite the opposite. They got slaughtered at the last elections a few months back.
You need to widen your view and get a bit more familiar with our politics just as you claim we need to about your community

downcow · 16-07-2019 11:29am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As usual on this forum, anecdote is not enough. I supplied this link which states 'Arlene is a committed member of the Order'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlene_Foster

It is up to you to supply a link to debunk that.

It’s a tricky request. It’s like trying to prove god doesn’t exist. The likelihood of an article on Arlene not being a OO member would be strange

If you were in the orange community then you would accept the link below as absolute evidence. This is Arlene speaking on an orange platform at Cowdenbeath twelfth a couple of weeks ago. There is absolutely no way a member of the OO would be in that role without their sash on. But I guess you won’t accept it. But I will have confirmation from the horses mouth shortly if you will believe me relaying it

https://www.alamy.com/cowdenbeath-uk-june-30-2018-orange-order-march-takes-place-in-with-dup-chief-arlene-foster-in-attendance-credit-steven-scott-taylor-alamy-live-news-image210522607.html

https://www.alamy.com/cowdenbeath-scotland-uk-30-june-2018-more-than-4000-marchers-take-part-in-annual-battle-of-the-boyne-orange-walk-in-cowdenbeath-fife-the-walk-w-image210754542.html

realdanbreen · 16-07-2019 11:34am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It is time for Unionists crying 'but it's our culture' to take an unblinkered look at the south. A hard and honest look.

There they will see a 'culturally intact society' that has removed the toxic, archaic and restrictive influence of religious suprematism and control.

There is nothing to be afraid of, if you do this. And look around you, the fall in numbers willing to subscribe to organisations like the OO, shows you it is underway anyway.
Look at David Trimble, has he diminished as a person because he has modernised his outlook and thrown off the dogmatic religious shackles?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/trimble-says-daughter-s-same-sex-marriage-forced-him-to-change-view-1.3956543

Not sure if David Trimble should be lauded for changing his views on SSM. It seems he only changed his view because it impacted on his family. I know plenty of people of his generation who were always tolerant of these issues.

FrancieBrady · 16-07-2019 11:44am

downcow wrote: »

It’s a tricky request. It’s like trying to prove god doesn’t exist. The likelihood of an article on Arlene not being a OO member would be strange

If you were in the orange community then you would accept the link below as absolute evidence. This is Arlene speaking on an orange platform at Cowdenbeath twelfth a couple of weeks ago. There is absolutely no way a member of the OO would be in that role without their sash on. But I guess you won’t accept it. But I will have confirmation from the horses mouth shortly if you will believe me relaying it

https://www.alamy.com/cowdenbeath-uk-june-30-2018-orange-order-march-takes-place-in-with-dup-chief-arlene-foster-in-attendance-credit-steven-scott-taylor-alamy-live-news-image210522607.html

https://www.alamy.com/cowdenbeath-scotland-uk-30-june-2018-more-than-4000-marchers-take-part-in-annual-battle-of-the-boyne-orange-walk-in-cowdenbeath-fife-the-walk-w-image210754542.html

I could go to her family home here and be back before you boil a kettle, never mind have a cup of tea.

Like Paisley, her pronouncements and support of the Order and it's beliefs, the people she stood on stage with at that meet you mentioned, it wouldn't really make any difference whether she says she is a member or not.

FrancieBrady · 16-07-2019 11:49am

realdanbreen wrote: »

Not sure if David Trimble should be lauded for changing his views on SSM. It seems he only changed his view because it impacted on his family. I know plenty of people of his generation who were always tolerant of these issues.

I think Trimble is a despicable politician tbh. I am sure downcow thinks differently of him, as do people in the DUP.
My question was to them, 'is he any different as a man...etc etc'.

I personally find it odious that because he had to change his position when it affected him and his family personally that he didn't abjectly apologise to those he denied rights to and discriminated against as a legislator.

Stop moaning ffs · 16-07-2019 11:49am

She certainly takes instruction from the OO so membership is implied whether its on record or not.

FrancieBrady · 16-07-2019 11:52am

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

She certainly takes instruction from the OO so membership is implied whether its on record or not.

It is on record, it is on her Wikipedia page which she can have changed if she wishes.

But as you say, she wears the sash in every other way, like Paisley before her.

votecounts · 16-07-2019 11:54am

downcow wrote: »

Some of What I’ve learnt so far from you guys.

Paisley was in the OO up to 1962
The para flags and banners genuinely annoy some of you.
There is still incredible levels of misunderstanding and prejudice against my community in roi.
We all need to work harder at getting in the other’s shoes.

What I hope francie etc has learned.
Nationalists are being fed some utter nonsense about the community they share this island with.
Paisley did not form the independent OO
Contrary to nationalist urban myth, there has been less than two years this century when the NI first minister was also a member of the OO.
Arlene foster is not in the orange order.

What I think ‘stop moaning ffs’ has learnt
Nothing (sadly)

Burning our national flag and marching where you are not wanted makes us understand you better.

downcow · 16-07-2019 12:07pm

votecounts wrote: »

Burning our national flag and marching where you are not wanted makes us understand you better.

We have already noted on many posts that young people on both sides here unfortunately burn the flag of what they see as the aggressor Happens the world over. It is just so sad if you measure a whole community by the actions of a few. Probably says more about you.

And I know you don’t like comparisons but there is a campaign to put Irish signs where people don’t want them

downcow · 16-07-2019 12:12pm

votecounts wrote: »

Burning our national flag and marching where you are not wanted makes us understand you better.

Can you imagine if a unionist Lord Mayor of Belfast done.
So much for those on here scolding my for suggesting Marley Lou leads a dodgy party

lawred2 · 16-07-2019 12:13pm

downcow wrote: »

Can you imagine if a unionist Lord Mayor of Belfast done.
So much for those on here scolding my for suggesting Marley Lou leads a dodgy party

what?

downcow · 16-07-2019 12:19pm

votecounts wrote: »

Burning our national flag and marching where you are not wanted makes us understand you better.

Imagine if a unionist Lord Mayor of Belfast done this.
And people are scolding me for pointing out the type of party mary Lou leads

downcow · 16-07-2019 12:28pm

votecounts wrote: »

Burning our national flag and marching where you are not wanted makes us understand you better.

This is an excellent piece that should lead plenty on here to say to themselves, maybe we do need to look a little at our own nationalistic sectarian issues.
And note the happy middle aged middle class Dubliners. Now that’s something I haven’t seen on either side up north

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-officials-in-Northern-Ireland-allow-the-burning-of-the-Republic-of-Irelands-flag-during-12th-night-bonfires-Is-it-even-legal

firemansam4 · 16-07-2019 12:29pm

downcow wrote:

We have already noted on many posts that young people on both sides here unfortunately burn the flag of what they see as the aggressor Happens the world over. It is just so sad if you measure a whole community by the actions of a few. Probably says more about you.

You have noted that on many posts and constantly ignored the fact that you are comparing a small minority of incidents to something that happens on a massive scale on the 12th of July every year.

BTW what that lord mayor done was as bad but yet again you are trying hard to find any single instances of where someone has burned the union jack to compare to what happens on a massive scale on the 12th of July.

How do you expect people in the Republic to react when they see that kind of carry on repeated year after year on a massive scale? It's hardly putting your culture in a positive light down this side of the border.

FrancieBrady · 16-07-2019 12:33pm

downcow wrote: »

Imagine if a unionist Lord Mayor of Belfast done this.
And people are scolding me for pointing out the type of party mary Lou leads

You had to go back before the GFA to find a photo??? Jaysus.

RobMc59 · 16-07-2019 12:48pm

downcow wrote: »

Imagine if a unionist Lord Mayor of Belfast done this.
And people are scolding me for pointing out the type of party mary Lou leads

Typical bullies who can give it but can`t take it back-In the words of Corporal Jones:"They don`t like it up em!"

FrancieBrady · 16-07-2019 12:53pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

Typical bullies who can give it but can`t take it back-In the words of Corporal Jones:"They don`t like it up em!"

1996 Rob.

Since then we have had the GFA and peace building by many committed people and yet year on year this problem around the 12th gets sadly worse.

It does your argument that you are an impartial observer no justice at all to side with downcow here.

downcow · 16-07-2019 12:54pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You had to go back before the GFA to find a photo??? Jaysus.

Tell me how many recent ones you would like. I have tried to avoid posting stuff that shows nationalists in a bad light but since you are so much in denial I give you a few. If you need more let me know and I’ll oblige.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/burning-names-of-murdered-officers-a-hate-crime-t0l6jnfp3

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/bonfire-sign-glorifies-my-dads-murder-says-frazer-37197458.html

firemansam4 · 16-07-2019 12:55pm

RobMc59 wrote:

Typical bullies who can give it but can`t take it back-In the words of Corporal Jones:"They don`t like it up em!"

What are you talking about? You are comparing an instance of something that happened many years ago before the GFA to the mass hate fest that goes on every year on the 12th of July.

You are clearly just trolling now...

downcow · 16-07-2019 12:55pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

Typical bullies who can give it but can`t take it back-In the words of Corporal Jones:"They don`t like it up em!"

The very words I was thinking when I saw their replies lol ðŸ˜‚

downcow · 16-07-2019 12:57pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

1996 Rob.

Since then we have had the GFA and peace building

That’s a bit rich. You had us back in 1962 looking for Paisley OO membership

firemansam4 · 16-07-2019 1:01pm

Yes this stuff is also appalling, but again it still does not go on to the same scale.

Let's put it this way, if we had bonfires like this throughout the rebuplic on St Patrick's day you would be well within your rights to criticise us for it and call it out for a day of hate, but no you are googling single instances of these things that have happened over many different years and trying to compare it to what happens every year on the 12th.

FrancieBrady · 16-07-2019 1:04pm

downcow wrote: »

Tell me how many recent ones you would like. I have tried to avoid posting stuff that shows nationalists in a bad light but since you are so much in denial I give you a few. If you need more let me know and I’ll oblige.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/burning-names-of-murdered-officers-a-hate-crime-t0l6jnfp3

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/bonfire-sign-glorifies-my-dads-murder-says-frazer-37197458.html

We know that people do it on both sides. Nationalists leaders have been vociferously condemning those in their own community who do it.

That is not happening in Unionist circles...you are demanding the right to do this, and to parade where you are not wanted, as 'part of your culture'.

There is a huge chasm of difference there.

FrancieBrady · 16-07-2019 1:05pm

downcow wrote: »

That’s a bit rich. You had us back in 1962 looking for Paisley OO membership

I simply stated that Paisley WAS a member of the OO. You disputed that for numerous posts.

downcow · 16-07-2019 1:11pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As usual on this forum, anecdote is not enough. I supplied this link which states 'Arlene is a committed member of the Order'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlene_Foster

It is up to you to supply a link to debunk that.

Just in Directly from the horses mouth. Arlene is not in the orange order.

I don’t need an apology, a simple retraction will suffice lol.
It is really interesting when this forum gives space to follow nationalists on some of the demonising of the unionist community their stories start to fall apart.
Francie made the offer to challenge him on his assertions so I just took his next post and done just that. Every fact he stated has now been debunked bar the paisley membership of OO (which we discovered ended in 1962).
I feel sad that southerners seem to take northern nationalists spin and exaggerations hook line and sinker.

But a genuine thank you to the mods on this thread for putting up with all our petty crap to allow us to get to the truth. Some threads close unionists down when the screw is turning on the nationalist myths

Now I really don’t have the energy to debunk anymore posts today, but if you need more recent evidence of union flag burning etc just let me know. At your service

FrancieBrady · 16-07-2019 1:15pm

downcow wrote: »

Just in Directly from the horses mouth. Arlene is not in the orange order.

I don’t need an apology, a simple retraction will suffice lol.
It is really interesting when this forum gives space to follow nationalists on some of the demonising of the unionist community their stories start to fall apart.
Francie made the offer to challenge him on his assertions so I just took his next post and done just that. Every fact he stated has now been debunked bar the paisley membership of OO (which we discovered ended in 1962).
I feel sad that southerners seem to take northern nationalists spin and exaggerations hook line and sinker.

But a genuine thank you to the mods on this thread for putting up with all our petty crap to allow us to get to the truth. Some threads close unionists down when the screw is turning on the nationalist myths

Now I really don’t have the energy to debunk anymore posts today, but if you need more recent evidence of union flag burning etc just let me know. At your service

:D:D Francie cannot be bothered even asking for proof. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it might as well be a duck.

RobMc59 · 16-07-2019 1:24pm

downcow wrote: »

Just in Directly from the horses mouth. Arlene is not in the orange order.

I don’t need an apology, a simple retraction will suffice lol.
It is really interesting when this forum gives space to follow nationalists on some of the demonising of the unionist community their stories start to fall apart.
Francie made the offer to challenge him on his assertions so I just took his next post and done just that. Every fact he stated has now been debunked bar the paisley membership of OO (which we discovered ended in 1962).
I feel sad that southerners seem to take northern nationalists spin and exaggerations hook line and sinker.

But a genuine thank you to the mods on this thread for putting up with all our petty crap to allow us to get to the truth. Some threads close unionists down when the screw is turning on the nationalist myths

Now I really don’t have the energy to debunk anymore posts today, but if you need more recent evidence of union flag burning etc just let me know. At your service

Downcow,You may have to ease up on francie,he's having a bad day today and is probably sitting muttering to himself in a darkened room..

Stop moaning ffs · 16-07-2019 1:27pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

Downcow,You may have to ease up on francie,he's having a bad day today and is probably sitting muttering to himself in a darkened room..

Yeah definitely trolling at this stage.

Tokyo · 16-07-2019 1:29pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

Downcow,You may have to ease up on francie,he's having a bad day today and is probably sitting muttering to himself in a darkened room..

Mod: Quit it with the dickish comments. Next one will earn you a threadban.

FrancieBrady · 16-07-2019 1:36pm

downcow wrote:

Yes I see he has now deleted his last post claiming he did not say Arlene was a member of OO Just as I was away searching for his quote. What ever else he’s nifty around these boards and not stupid.
Here’s his quote
"The OO's distinct manifesto was to influence the politics of northern Ireland and they did and still are. Not sure about Peter Robinson being a member but Ian Paisley was and Foster is a member"

Now possibly he meant dr foster who went to Gloucester

Here is the only proof we have so far:

In May 2018, she announced she would be leading an Orange Order march in Fife, Scotland. As a committed member of the Order, this was a reason behind the original defection from the UUP ten years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlene_Foster

When we get proof to the contrary, I am happy to withdraw the accusation that she is a member, as I did about Ian and the IOO

downcow · 16-07-2019 1:57pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Here is the only proof we have so far:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlene_Foster

When we get proof to the contrary, I am happy to withdraw the accusation that she is a member, as I did about Ian and the IOO

Francie that is ridiculous. It’s not possible to get evidence that something doesn’t exist and well you know it.
Could you get me evidence that Gerry Adams did not belong to kkk ?

I thought you would accept my word for it when I tell you that Arlene has stated categorically today that she is not a member of OO. she has confirmed this in direct response to you asserting that she is.

You gotta be a wee bit more trusting francie

FrancieBrady · 16-07-2019 2:01pm

downcow wrote: »

Francie that is ridiculous. It’s not possible to get evidence that something doesn’t exist and well you know it.
Could you get me evidence that Gerry Adams did not belong to kkk ?

I thought you would accept my word for it when I tell you that Arlene has stated categorically today that she is not a member of OO. she has confirmed this in direct response to you asserting that she is.

You gotta be a wee bit more trusting francie

She confirmed it 'directly' to me? Where?

I trust only what I see before me. Anyone can edit their Wikipedia page if there is wrong info about them on it.

And as I said about Paisley, to all intents and purpose, by speech and action, she embodies the OO and it's beliefs.

Stop moaning ffs · 16-07-2019 2:05pm

ITs more worrying to me that the unionist community elected an MP to parliament who has made disgusting homophobic remarks and worse about Irish people.
Sammy Gammon Wilson.

Imagine electing that to represent your community.
What does it say about his electorate?

Imreoir2 · 16-07-2019 2:23pm

downcow wrote: »

We have already noted on many posts that young people on both sides here unfortunately burn the flag of what they see as the aggressor Happens the world over. It is just so sad if you measure a whole community by the actions of a few. Probably says more about you.

By a few, or by a huge number with the tacit (at least) aproval of the leaders of your community?

And I know you don’t like comparisons but there is a campaign to put Irish signs where people don’t want them

You should finish your sentance, it's a campain to put Irish signs where people don’t want them... according to a member of the UUP.

The reality of course is different, but no surprise there. Conradh na Gaeilge actually published an FAQ document to debunk the flase claims made by opponents of an Irish Language Act. On street signage they had this to say:

Local council policy currently dictate the rules on erecting bilingual street signs, but each council is different, some have attempted to bring forward policies banning Irish on all signs, and some promote the language through bilingual signage. Bilingual (Irish and English) Street signs should be facilitated where there is demonstrable demand from local residents. This should have a uniform criteria of 50% +1 of respondents to a council survey where people want signs.
Councils should also take pro-active measures to include indigenous place-names in new developments, if this is applicable.

https://cnag.ie/images/Acht_Gaeilge_Ceisteanna_Coitianta_FAQ_2019.pdf

I trust you will stop making this false claim now?

FrancieBrady · 16-07-2019 2:29pm

Imreoir2 wrote: »

By a few, or by a huge number with the tacit (at least) aproval of the leaders of your community?

You should finish your sentance, it's a campain to put Irish signs where people don’t want them... according to a member of the UUP.

The reality of course is different, but no surprise there. Conradh na Gaeilge actually published an FAQ document to debunk the flase claims made by opponents of an Irish Language Act. On street signage they had this to say:

Local council policy currently dictate the rules on erecting bilingual street signs, but each council is different, some have attempted to bring forward policies banning Irish on all signs, and some promote the language through bilingual signage. Bilingual (Irish and English) Street signs should be facilitated where there is demonstrable demand from local residents. This should have a uniform criteria of 50% +1 of respondents to a council survey where people want signs.
Councils should also take pro-active measures to include indigenous place-names in new developments, if this is applicable.

https://cnag.ie/images/Acht_Gaeilge_Ceisteanna_Coitianta_FAQ_2019.pdf

I trust you will stop making this false claim now?

I never got back up to his claim that Local Irish groups where claiming they would force Irish signs to be put up on the Shankill.

This from a poster who thinks people in the south and nationalists labour under misconceptions about his community???

armaghlad · 16-07-2019 2:35pm

downcow wrote: »

So the question remains unanswered whether you would call for the banners supporting the hunger strikers be removed.
Some on here said they didn’t kill civilians. One of them was directly involved in the kings mill massacre, separating a bus load of civilians in to prods and catholic’s and then murdering all the Catholics - and he has a kids play park named after him. But let’s get the para banners down cause they were bad boys.

Just curious as to how he was directly involved? Being caught with the weapon used doesn’t necessarily mean he carried out the Kingsmill massacre.

armaghlad · 16-07-2019 2:36pm

downcow wrote: »

The paras are looked up to as hero’s because they stood up to terrorism.
You should look back at what you are saying - it would be like me saying to you that the hunger strikers are looked up to because they slaughtered Protestants. I would have a little more empathy with you than to say that.

Are they viewed as heroes on the Shankill Road?

realdanbreen · 16-07-2019 3:46pm

After all is said and done the fact is that the Orange Order have nothing but at best disdain and at worst hatred for anyone who is not Protestant. In fact they have little time for fellow protestants who are not Orangemen and contempt for any Protestant that would marry a Catholic. It's bible thumping nutjobs like them that keep their communities in the dark ages.

downcow · 16-07-2019 5:12pm

Imreoir2 wrote: »

By a few, or by a huge number with the tacit (at least) aproval of the leaders of your community?

You should finish your sentance, it's a campain to put Irish signs where people don’t want them... according to a member of the UUP.

The reality of course is different, but no surprise there. Conradh na Gaeilge actually published an FAQ document to debunk the flase claims made by opponents of an Irish Language Act. On street signage they had this to say:

Local council policy currently dictate the rules on erecting bilingual street signs, but each council is different, some have attempted to bring forward policies banning Irish on all signs, and some promote the language through bilingual signage. Bilingual (Irish and English) Street signs should be facilitated where there is demonstrable demand from local residents. This should have a uniform criteria of 50% +1 of respondents to a council survey where people want signs.
Councils should also take pro-active measures to include indigenous place-names in new developments, if this is applicable.

https://cnag.ie/images/Acht_Gaeilge_Ceisteanna_Coitianta_FAQ_2019.pdf

I trust you will stop making this false claim now?

I made no false claims. I personal listened to their spokesperson say he would expect Irish signs in the shankill whether people wanted them or not. It shouldn’t be difficult to find the quote.

What you have included above is totally reasonable if that is their new position. I would have no complaints about.
It’s just the old problem that you will be able to identify the makeup of the area and hence who feels welcome by the signage

Stop moaning ffs · 16-07-2019 5:16pm

downcow wrote: »

I made no false claims. I personal listened to their spokesperson say he would expect Irish signs in the shankill whether people wanted them or not. It shouldn’t be difficult to find the quote.

What you have included above is totally reasonable if that is their new position. I would have no complaints about.
It’s just the old problem that you will be able to identify the makeup of the area and hence who feels welcome by the signage

So road signs in a different language are unacceptable for you.

But your flags on every pole and kerb are supposed to be ok and sucked up by the other community?

downcow · 16-07-2019 5:19pm

Imreoir2 wrote: »

By a few, or by a huge number with the tacit (at least) aproval of the leaders of your community?

You should finish your sentance, it's a campain to put Irish signs where people don’t want them... according to a member of the UUP.

The reality of course is different, but no surprise there. Conradh na Gaeilge actually published an FAQ document to debunk the flase claims made by opponents of an Irish Language Act. On street signage they had this to say:

Local council policy currently dictate the rules on erecting bilingual street signs, but each council is different, some have attempted to bring forward policies banning Irish on all signs, and some promote the language through bilingual signage. Bilingual (Irish and English) Street signs should be facilitated where there is demonstrable demand from local residents. This should have a uniform criteria of 50% +1 of respondents to a council survey where people want signs.
Councils should also take pro-active measures to include indigenous place-names in new developments, if this is applicable.

https://cnag.ie/images/Acht_Gaeilge_Ceisteanna_Coitianta_FAQ_2019.pdf

I trust you will stop making this false claim now?

Here we are. Same group saying the opposite. I am pleased if they are realising their initial position would never fly.
And to be honest my preferred position is that all cultures are welcome everywhere
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/unionist-fears-as-irish-groups-spell-out-vision-for-language-1-8375754/amp

The glorious 12th

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