Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

Odhinn · 25-09-2019 6:48pm

notobtuse wrote: »

You can believe a slimy politician. I’ll take the word of the rank and file policemen and women.

.................

....that used be the attitude towards the church in this state. Look how that worked out.

Brian? · 25-09-2019 6:58pm

notobtuse wrote: »

Never said anything was an 'irrefutable source of pure truth.' But, whatever. I take it you'll never again ask me to provide sources to back up any of my comments, right?

I will ask and I will provide. What I won’t stand for you as dismissing mainstream sources as biased when then disagree with you and unbiased when they don’t. It’s silly.

notobtuse · 25-09-2019 7:06pm

Brian? wrote: »

I will ask and I will provide. What I won’t stand for you as dismissing mainstream sources as biased when then disagree with you and unbiased when they don’t. It’s silly.

So any media source I provide, that you would consider coming from the Right, will carry just as much equal weight as any other media source? Good to know.

Brian? · 25-09-2019 7:12pm

notobtuse wrote: »

So any media source I provide, that you would consider coming from the Right, will carry just as much equal weight as any other media source? Good to know.

It will. I never said it wouldn’t. You’re the one who dismisses while swathes of the media as biased, not me.

It’s not the source I care about, unlike you, it’s whether it’s factual or not.

James Brown · 25-09-2019 8:14pm

notobtuse wrote: »

So any media source I provide, that you would consider coming from the Right, will carry just as much equal weight as any other media source? Good to know.

So far it seems there's right wing, sometimes religious organisations that own news outlets you respect and the rest is liberal biased mainstream media that should be taken with a pinch of salt.
Think about that for a minute.

notobtuse · 25-09-2019 8:52pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

So far it seems there's right wing, sometimes religious organisations that own news outlets you respect and the rest is liberal biased mainstream media that should be taken with a pinch of salt.
Think about that for a minute.

The majority of the media serve as handmaidens of the Democrats... extremely biased. The small portion of the media on the right are agenda driven also, but are prone to providing more facts than the biased liberal media. I would recommend to read from both perspectives and determine a balance.

PostWoke · 25-09-2019 10:15pm

notobtuse wrote: »

The majority of the media serve as handmaidens of the Democrats... extremely biased.

You american mate?

In Ireland we have several parties. You should familiarize yourself with it; this is an Irish board.

notobtuse · 25-09-2019 10:31pm

PostWoke wrote: »

You american mate?

In Ireland we have several parties. You should familiarize yourself with it; this is an Irish board.

Yup, I'm American and Irish and reside in the US... and I'm familiar with the parties in Ireland. I also know Democrats in the US would be considered right of center in Ireland. And US Republicans are considered bonkers. But this thread deals with the actions of Antifa that has taken place in the US as of late, so my responses are geared around dealings in the US.

PostWoke · 26-09-2019 12:11pm

notobtuse wrote: »

Yup, I'm American and Irish and reside in the US... and I'm familiar with the parties in Ireland. I also know Democrats in the US would be considered right of center in Ireland. And US Republicans are considered bonkers. But this thread deals with the actions of Antifa that has taken place in the US as of late, so my responses are geared around dealings in the US.

Nah. U.S. Democrats would be centrists here at best. But that's not the point. This is an Irish board, no need to be going on about foreign political parties. Antifa are a harmless international group until extremists instigate trouble at events, then they become the physical arm of moderate and progressive values, there to defend people from being assaulted like we saw at Charlottesville, black people being beaten on the ground by groups of Proud Boys, etc. It really is that simple. Fair play to them.

Woodsie1 · 26-09-2019 12:24pm

PostWoke wrote: »

Nah. U.S. Democrats would be centrists here at best. But that's not the point. This is an Irish board, no need to be going on about foreign political parties. Antifa are a harmless international group until extremists instigate trouble at events, then they become the physical arm of moderate and progressive values, there to defend people from being assaulted like we saw at Charlottesville, black people being beaten on the ground by groups of Proud Boys, etc. It really is that simple. Fair play to them.

Good one.
Very funny.

Brian? · 26-09-2019 12:41pm

notobtuse wrote: »

The majority of the media serve as handmaidens of the Democrats... extremely biased. The small portion of the media on the right are agenda driven also, but are prone to providing more facts than the biased liberal media. I would recommend to read from both perspectives and determine a balance.

The majority of the media serve as handmaiden summer of the GOP... very biased.

See, I can say things too.

notobtuse · 26-09-2019 1:37pm

Brian? wrote: »

The majority of the media serve as handmaiden summer of the GOP... very biased.

See, I can say things too.

If I'd agree with you then we'd both be wrong.

PostWoke · 26-09-2019 2:02pm

Woodsie1 wrote: »

Good one.
Very funny.

Fantastic rebuttal. Doesn't look weak at all.

Woodsie1 · 26-09-2019 2:07pm

PostWoke wrote: »

Fantastic rebuttal. Doesn't look weak at all.

Your post was funny,nothing weak in pointing that out.

Do some more Im have a great laugh on boards today:pac:

notobtuse · 26-09-2019 2:25pm

PostWoke wrote: »

Nah. U.S. Democrats would be centrists here at best. But that's not the point. This is an Irish board, no need to be going on about foreign political parties. Antifa are a harmless international group until extremists instigate trouble at events, then they become the physical arm of moderate and progressive values, there to defend people from being assaulted like we saw at Charlottesville, black people being beaten on the ground by groups of Proud Boys, etc. It really is that simple. Fair play to them.

Petition to have the Current Affairs/IMHO center only on Irish matters, then… and to have all non-conformists hanged, drawn and quartered. I'm SUUUUURE the executive board here will seriously consider it. :rolleyes:

Danzy · 26-09-2019 3:04pm

Dave Rubin talk cancelled due to Antifa threats.

Insane to consider him far right.

That he is a Jew seems to be the more likely trigger.

20Cent · 26-09-2019 3:25pm

Danzy wrote: »

Dave Rubin talk cancelled due to Antifa threats.

Insane to consider him far right.

That he is a Jew seems to be the more likely trigger.

Not cancelled just rubin doesn't want to pay the security costs.

James Brown · 26-09-2019 3:39pm

notobtuse wrote: »

The majority of the media serve as handmaidens of the Democrats... extremely biased. The small portion of the media on the right are agenda driven also, but are prone to providing more facts than the biased liberal media. I would recommend to read from both perspectives and determine a balance.

Nope, they serve their owners interests, saying that, they must be seen to be truthful or they'll lose credibility.

You go on to say the small(?) number of right wing media are saying what you want to hear.

Nope. I would recommend reading the mainstream respected publications and sifting out any spin, if any. I will not read some right wing jack asses opinion article and give it any merit.

What if the media are reporting things and you don't like what you are seeing so decide it must be spin??? :eek:

James Brown · 26-09-2019 3:42pm

Danzy wrote: »

Dave Rubin talk cancelled due to Antifa threats.

Insane to consider him far right.

That he is a Jew seems to be the more likely trigger.

I thought you said Antifa, are the Proud Boys or Patriots Prayer going?

Might be him giving an unchallenged platform to the Alt-Right I'd imagine.

Brian? · 26-09-2019 4:24pm

notobtuse wrote: »

If I'd agree with you then we'd both be wrong.

Did you miss my point intentionally?

You through out statements like they are verifiable facts, when you’re simply parroting common right wing tropes.

The media is against you, even though Foxnews is the number 1 rated new network.

Danzy · 26-09-2019 4:52pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I thought you said Antifa, are the Proud Boys or Patriots Prayer going?

Might be him giving an unchallenged platform to the Alt-Right I'd imagine.

No, jayzus Matt, not like there isn't a long history of ANTIFA targeting Jews.

The why is immaterial to the thrill of intimidation and control over others.

It's that control which motivates ANTIFA.

notobtuse · 26-09-2019 5:05pm

Brian? wrote: »

Did you miss my point intentionally?

You through out statements like they are verifiable facts, when you’re simply parroting common right wing tropes.

The media is against you, even though Foxnews is the number 1 rated new network.

My comment was right on regarding the nonsense that was spouted.

SexBobomb · 26-09-2019 5:17pm

Danzy wrote: »

Dave Rubin talk cancelled due to Antifa threats.

Insane to consider him far right.

That he is a Jew seems to be the more likely trigger.

20Cent wrote: »

Not cancelled just rubin doesn't want to pay the security costs.

I suppose the venue would have to impose massive security fees when "antifa" mob violence is expected at this stage. Im sure they'll actually consider this a victory.

20Cent · 26-09-2019 5:51pm

An academic research paper into the "intellectual" dark web on youtube has shown that these grifters really do end up as gateways to fringe far right ideologies.

Auditing Radicalization Pathways on YouTube
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335337464_Auditing_Radicalization_Pathways_on_YouTube

We analyze 331,849 videos of 360 channels which we broadly classify into: control, the Alt-lite, the Intellectual Dark Web (I.D.W.), and the Alt-right ---channels in the I.D.W. and the Alt-lite would be gateways to fringe far-right ideology, here represented by Alt-right channels. Processing more than 79M comments,

Dave Rubin is one of them.
Not saying he is a nazi or even doing it on purpose but he does point people in that direction and encourage them.

James Brown · 26-09-2019 6:13pm

Danzy wrote: »

No, jayzus Matt, not like there isn't a long history of ANTIFA targeting Jews.

The why is immaterial to the thrill of intimidation and control over others.

It's that control which motivates ANTIFA.

For being Jews and nothing else?

James Brown · 26-09-2019 6:14pm

SexBobomb wrote: »

I suppose the venue would have to impose massive security fees when "antifa" mob violence is expected at this stage. Im sure they'll actually consider this a victory.

I'm sure the racists planning marches in Portland give two f***s about the civic cost of policing their hate rallies.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 26-09-2019 7:00pm

20Cent wrote: »

An academic research paper into the "intellectual" dark web on youtube has shown that these grifters really do end up as gateways to fringe far right ideologies.

Auditing Radicalization Pathways on YouTube
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335337464_Auditing_Radicalization_Pathways_on_YouTube

We analyze 331,849 videos of 360 channels which we broadly classify into: control, the Alt-lite, the Intellectual Dark Web (I.D.W.), and the Alt-right ---channels in the I.D.W. and the Alt-lite would be gateways to fringe far-right ideology, here represented by Alt-right channels. Processing more than 79M comments,

Dave Rubin is one of them.
Not saying he is a nazi or even doing it on purpose but he does point people in that direction and encourage them.

I can't read the whole paper. How did they decide who was alt-light, alt-right and why?
What channels were the controls?
What was the purpose of processing the comments?
Has this research been reproduced?
Why is it assumed that just because people watch certain videos that they become radicalized i. e. What is the basis for this claim?

20Cent · 26-09-2019 7:12pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

I can't read the whole paper. How did they decide who was alt-light, alt-right and why?

They didn't.

What channels were the controls?

Page 5

What was the purpose of processing the comments?

Senitment analysis.

Has this research been reproduced?

dunno

Why is it assumed that just because people watch certain videos that they become radicalized i. e. What is the basis for this claim?

They don't claim that.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 26-09-2019 7:37pm

20Cent wrote: »

DanDan6592 wrote: »

I can't read the whole paper. How did they decide who was alt-light, alt-right and why?

They didn't.

What channels were the controls?

Page 5

What was the purpose of processing the comments?

Senitment analysis.

Has this research been reproduced?

dunno

Why is it assumed that just because people watch certain videos that they become radicalized i. e. What is the basis for this claim?

They don't claim that.

Who did?

Sentiment analysis? That's a new for me.

Well it's not much use until it gets reproduced with similar conclusions.

What Is claimed? That it leads people to watch videos of people with extreme views. If so, so what?

20Cent · 26-09-2019 7:52pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

20Cent wrote: »

Who did?

Sentiment analysis? That's a new for me.

Well it's not much use until it gets reproduced with similar conclusions.

What Is claimed? That it leads people to watch videos of people with extreme views. If so, so what?

Who did what?

Sentiment analysis been around a long time, it's used to gain insights from peoples comments.

Maybe it has been replicated I haven't read everything about it..

People are being radicalised by youtube content, the IDW in conjunction with youtube's algorithms contribute to this.

Try it yourself look at a few John Paul Watson videos or Stefan Molyneaux.
Your youtube recommendations start giving you more similar content until you end up with some dark fascist, racist etc stuff.

Happened to this chap he explains it well.
https://youtu.be/sfLa64_zLrU

p1akuw47h5r3it · 26-09-2019 8:03pm

20Cent wrote: »

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Who did what?

Sentiment analysis been around a long time, it's used to gain insights from peoples comments.

Maybe it has been replicated I haven't read everything about it..

People are being radicalised by youtube content, the IDW in conjunction with youtube's algorithms contribute to this.

Try it yourself look at a few John Paul Watson videos or Stefan Molyneaux.
Your youtube recommendations start giving you more similar content until you end up with some dark fascist, racist etc stuff.

Happened to this chap he explains it well.
https://youtu.be/sfLa64_zLrU

Who decided what channels were alt-right, which were alt-light etc.?

This may be the case that you end up b we ING recommended far-right videos, but that is not Dave Rubins fault, and it doesn't make him far-right.

Regardless, if the algorithm works this way, it will do the same for those watching mainly left-wing political discourse. The fault lies with YouTube solely, not the IDW as you seem to suggest.

I've watched a fair-view Dave Rubin vids, along with Jordan Peterson and other IDW people, and I was never recommended far-right or racist content. (Actually maybe that Molenyeux lad was once, does he try come across as an intellect? Can't really remember who he is.)

20Cent · 26-09-2019 8:38pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

20Cent wrote: »

Who decided what channels were alt-right, which were alt-light etc.?

This may be the case that you end up b we ING recommended far-right videos, but that is not Dave Rubins fault, and it doesn't make him far-right.

Regardless, if the algorithm works this way, it will do the same for those watching mainly left-wing political discourse. The fault lies with YouTube solely, not the IDW as you seem to suggest.

I've watched a fair-view Dave Rubin vids, along with Jordan Peterson and other IDW people, and I was never recommended far-right or racist content. (Actually maybe that Molenyeux lad was once, does he try come across as an intellect? Can't really remember who he is.)

Why don't you just read it yourself it's all there.
Could discuss it then.

20Cent · 26-09-2019 8:52pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

[

I've watched a fair-view Dave Rubin vids, along with Jordan Peterson and other IDW people, and I was never recommended far-right or racist content. (Actually maybe that Molenyeux lad was once, does he try come across as an intellect? Can't really remember who he is.)

Molenyex presents himself as an intellectual, he is basically a white supremacist that discusses things like race and IQ, feminism etc he also interviews open white supremacists. The youtube algorithm will start recommending that tyoe of content to you.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 26-09-2019 9:08pm

20Cent wrote: »

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Why don't you just read it yourself it's all there.
Could discuss it then.

On phone, don't want to download. I'll give the vid a watch. What I'm getting at moreso is that yiu seem to alluding to it being Dave Rubin and the IDWs fault that YouTubes algorithms recommend potentially nefarious naterial.

Edit: I thought your vid explained the paper itself, not watching 38 mins of some random lad haha

20Cent · 26-09-2019 9:19pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

20Cent wrote: »

On phone, don't want to download. I'll give the vid a watch. What I'm getting at moreso is that yiu seem to alluding to it being Dave Rubin and the IDWs fault that YouTubes algorithms recommend potentially nefarious naterial.

Edit: I thought your vid explained the paper itself, not watching 38 mins of some random lad haha

It's a mixture of both imo.
The lad describes being bored and a bit lost.
Went down a youtube rabbit hole getting more and more extreme.

That's how radicalisation works.
Rubin etc could do more to fight against it but it's not in their financial interest to do so.

Woodsie1 · 26-09-2019 9:23pm

20Cent wrote: »

The youtube algorithm will start recommending that tyoe of content to you.

Youtube has changed the algorithm,so it wont happen anymore apparantly

p1akuw47h5r3it · 26-09-2019 9:25pm

20Cent wrote: »

DanDan6592 wrote: »

It's a mixture of both imo.
The lad describes being bored and a bit lost.
Went down a youtube rabbit hole getting more and more extreme.

That's how radicalisation works.
Rubin etc could do more to fight against it but it's not in their financial interest to do so.

But he'd be a tiny minority. This doesn't happen to the vast majority. And it's not Dave Rubin fault when it does happen.

How could he fight against it more?

Unfortunately I don't see how YouTube can change. I watch mostly science and in particular physics videos on YouTube and find the recommends to me to be great.

20Cent · 26-09-2019 9:36pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

20Cent wrote: »

But he'd be a tiny minority. This doesn't happen to the vast majority. And it's not Dave Rubin fault when it does happen.

How could he fight against it more?

Unfortunately I don't see how YouTube can change. I watch mostly science and in particular physics videos on YouTube and find the recommends to me to be great.

He is a tiny minority but thats all it takes. With an audience of millions all it takes is one nutjob listening to hours and hours of Mexicans are all criminal rapists takes a gun and decides to kill as many of them as he can.

Rubin will allow people to lie on his show. For example Tommy Robinson claimed to have been sent to prison for his beliefs as opposed to mortgage fraud. Rubin could have asked him what the charges were, or challenge the claim. Instead he just accepts whatever they say. Now Rubins audience of millions think Robinson is a perfectly nice chap being victimised for his beliefs.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 26-09-2019 9:39pm

20Cent wrote: »

DanDan6592 wrote: »

He is a tiny minority but thats all it takes. With an audience of millions all it takes is one nutjob listening to hours and hours of Mexicans are all criminal rapists takes a gun and decides to kill as many of them as he can.

Rubin will allow people to lie on his show. For example Tommy Robinson claimed to have been sent to prison for his beliefs as opposed to mortgage fraud. Rubin could have asked him what the charges were, or challenge the claim. Instead he just accepts whatever they say. Now Rubins audience of millions think Robinson is a perfectly nice chap being victimised for his beliefs.

But you can say the same re Islamic Extremism, or listening to how Ice detention centers are akin to concentration camps.

Right so he's a poor interviewer. It's hardly fair to then hold him partly responsible if some loser ends up with far-right views from watching too many YouTube videos.

20Cent · 26-09-2019 9:41pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

20Cent wrote: »

But you can say the same re Islamic Extremism, or listening to how Ice detention centers are akin to concentration camps.

Right so he's a poor interviewer. It's hardly fair to then hold him partly responsible if some loser ends up with far-right views from watching too many YouTube videos.

It's exactly the same as how people get radicalised into any radical belief system.

Re the second part bit pointless discussing a paper you haven't read.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 26-09-2019 9:47pm

20Cent wrote: »

DanDan6592 wrote: »

It's exactly the same as how people get radicalised into any radical belief system.

Re the second part bit pointless discussing a paper you haven't read.

I thought we'd moved on from the paper. Does the paper suggest that Dave Rubin and the IDW are somehow responsible for people becoming far-right from watching YouTube videos? It seemed to me this was a claim that you made and not the paper itself.

From the intro it seemed it suggested that YouTube recommends nefarious videos having watched certain other, less controversial content providers.

20Cent · 26-09-2019 9:59pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

20Cent wrote: »

I thought we'd moved on from the paper. Does the paper suggest that Dave Rubin and the IDW are somehow responsible for people becoming far-right from watching YouTube videos? It seemed to me this was a claim that you made and not the paper itself.

From the intro it seemed it suggested that YouTube recommends nefarious videos having watched certain other, less controversial content providers.

Pointless if you haven't read it.
Its short.
Would be quicker reading it than me spoonfeeding it to you.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 26-09-2019 10:04pm

20Cent wrote: »

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Pointless if you haven't read it.
Its short.
Would be quicker reading it than me spoonfeeding it to you.

On phone. Difficult to read it and tired. I'll try tomorrow. From what I got through I think yiu are misinterpreting what it is saying. The paper doesn't appear to lay blame at the IDW or Rubin, but at Youtube algorithms.

Sweetemotion · 26-09-2019 10:11pm

20Cent wrote: »

Happened to this chap he explains it well.
https://youtu.be/sfLa64_zLrU

That guy is the definition of a grifter.

20Cent · 26-09-2019 10:20pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

20Cent wrote: »

On phone. Difficult to read it and tired. I'll try tomorrow. From what I got through I think yiu are misinterpreting what it is saying. The paper doesn't appear to lay blame at the IDW or Rubin, but at Youtube algorithms.

Neither did I, said it is a gateway.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 26-09-2019 10:24pm

20Cent wrote: »

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Neither did I, said it is a gateway.

No you said Rubin "points people in that direction" and "encourages" people towards the far right. That is not true.

It's the algorithms that do this. Not the individuals themselves.

20Cent · 26-09-2019 10:36pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

20Cent wrote: »

No you said Rubin "points people in that direction" and "encourages" people towards the far right. That is not true.

It's the algorithms that do this. Not the individuals themselves.

It is true.
He has Stefan Molyneux on.
Stefan gives his race and iq bull**** unchallenged.
Rubin just lets him say whatever he wants
Stefan gets introduced as a totally reasonable person to Rubin's million plus viewers. Many may go on to look at more of his stuff or get recommend it by YouTube. Like I said a gateway and a pointer.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 27-09-2019 5:40am

20Cent wrote: »

DanDan6592 wrote: »

It is true.
He has Stefan Molyneux on.
Stefan gives his race and iq bull**** unchallenged.
Rubin just lets him say whatever he wants
Stefan gets introduced as a totally reasonable person to Rubin's million plus viewers. Many may go on to look at more of his stuff or get recommend it by YouTube. Like I said a gateway and a pointer.

But that's not what that Academic paper says, that what you say and it's mere opinion. Again you try and claim that Rubin is responsible for Youtube Algorithms, and is liable for someone becoming far-right simply because he's a bad interviewer.

20Cent · 27-09-2019 8:21am

DanDan6592 wrote: »

20Cent wrote: »

But that's not what that Academic paper says, that what you say and it's mere opinion. Again you try and claim that Rubin is responsible for Youtube Algorithms, and is liable for someone becoming far-right simply because he's a bad interviewer.

It's not opinion.
Molyneux was on Rubin's show and did talk about races having different iq's unchallenged. You can look it up. These are facts.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 27-09-2019 2:17pm

20Cent wrote: »

DanDan6592 wrote: »

It's not opinion.
Molyneux was on Rubin's show and did talk about races having different iq's unchallenged. You can look it up. These are facts.

I don't deny he did. But how is that "encouraging" people towards the far-right?

Also, have you got a weird framing around our comments to each other or is it just my end?

Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

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