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Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

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  • Options
    #3302
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    20Cent wrote: »
    Not questionable at all.

    Well they are being labelled as a terrorist group now according to Trump so once their mammys get word of what they have been up to hopefully we won't have to listen to them much longer.


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    #3303
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    Well they are being labelled as a terrorist group now according to Trump so once their mammys get word of what they have been up to hopefully we won't have to listen to them much longer.

    Trump says 20 dumb things a day so no point listening to him.


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    #3304
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    20Cent wrote: »
    Trump says 20 dumb things a day so no point listening to him.

    When will we see masked Antifa members on Irish shores?


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    #3305
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Brian? wrote: »
    Portland main is a hole.
    I have been several times and don't know if you've been, but it's "Maine", not "main"


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    #3306
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    When will we see masked Antifa members on Irish shores?

    Hopefully not necessary.
    They counter fascists so unless some fascist start marching around not needed.
    Did see some hitler salutes were thrown at Gemma O'Doherty's sh1tshow at google.


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    #3307
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    When will we see masked Antifa members on Irish shores?

    About 10 years ago when Pegida held an anti Islam march.

    There haven’t been any far right marches since, so there hasn’t been anything for Antifa to counter protest.

    It shouldn’t really shock you that without fascists, anti fascists don’t really have much to do.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #3308
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    That would be Antifa then. Horrible people

    No. That would be the fascists.

    Antifa is a portmanteau of Anti Fascist. You didn’t know that?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #3309
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    20Cent wrote: »
    Hopefully not necessary.
    They counter fascists so unless some fascist start marching around not needed.
    Did see some hitler salutes were thrown at Gemma O'Doherty's sh1tshow at google.

    Yeah I saw that too. Also have seen that the guy has been found.


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    #3310
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Brian? wrote: »
    No. That would be the fascists.

    Antifa is a portmanteau of Anti Fascist. You didn’t know that?

    Fascist is a fairly broad term.
    Define your interpretation of the word


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    #3311
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    Yeah I saw that too. Also have seen that the guy has been found.

    Good, hope he is named and shamed.
    Don't need that stuff.


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    #3312
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    20Cent wrote: »
    Good, hope he is named and shamed.
    Don't need that stuff.

    Yes. Apparently they are getting some history on him before releasing his details. So that there is no confusion. Presumably of course


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    #3313
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    Fascist is a fairly broad term.
    Define your interpretation of the word

    Ah come on, seriously? I’ve played this game enough times. “Fascist” is not a broad term. It’s applied broadly, to the point it’s losing meaning. But some people are actually fascists.

    A fascist is a far right authoritarian. The key being “far right”. No one on the left can be a fascist. No one in the middle can be a fascist. No one who is anti authoritarian, libertarians or anarchists l, can be fascists. You have to be a far right authoritarian.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #3314
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Brian? wrote: »
    Ah come on, seriously? I’ve played this game enough times. “Fascist” is not a broad term. It’s applied broadly, to the point it’s losing meaning. But some people are actually fascists.

    A fascist is a far right authoritarian. The key being “far right”. No one on the left can be a fascist. No one in the middle can be a fascist. No one who is anti authoritarian, libertarians or anarchists l, can be fascists. You have to be a far right authoritarian.

    Fair enough. Right wing only. But you didn't specify your definition of a fascist. Only that it's people on the far right.

    Britannica defines fascism as : many characteristics in common, including extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: “people’s community”), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation

    Would you agree with this?


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    #3315
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    Britannica
    From your thesaurus:
    contempt for electoral democracy
    If fascism means "contempt for electoral democracy" it includes every remainer in Britain demanding a second referendum, and also every "Trump is not my president" person in US and probably quite a few posters in this very forum.
    the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: “people’s community”), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation.
    "Volksgemeinschaft"means breaking down elitism and uniting people across class divides to achieve a national purpose.

    This is Communism. So Fascism and Communism agree on this point.


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    #3316
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    biko wrote: »
    From your thesaurus:

    If fascism means "contempt for electoral democracy" it includes every remainer in Britain demanding a second referendum, and also every "Trump is not my president" person in US and probably quite a few posters in this very forum.

    "Volksgemeinschaft"means breaking down elitism and uniting people across class divides to achieve a national purpose.

    This is Communism. So Fascism and Communism agree on this point.

    Bingo.

    Help spread the truth. People throwing around the word ignorant to its meaning.


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    #3317
    Seanachai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    Bingo.

    Help spread the truth. People throwing around the word ignorant to its meaning.

    The best description I've read on the ideology is of it being 'syncretic', it borrows from the left and right.


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    #3318
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,704 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    Brian? wrote: »
    The fascists are the real fascists. The clue is in the name.

    Quite.


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    #3319
    Seanachai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    Quite.

    Indeed

    2c75c4b10be9084561c0bb5a4e5675d0-full.jpg


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    #3320
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Everyone is a facist nowadays. Here are my top 5:

    1 Snoop Doggy Dogg
    2 David Beckham
    3 Paul Hogan (crocodile Dundee)
    4 Madeline McCann
    5 Eddie Hobbs

    Stay safe


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    #3321
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,309 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Brian? wrote: »
    But some people are actually fascists.

    There are but in America's 300 million + people they number in low thousands.

    Vernacular definition of fascism seems to include any control freak political types, so in that regard I understand why people view Antifa as Fascistic, even if it not correct.

    The day to day reality of their vision would match near enough. It is the mindset that is most common.


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    #3322
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,309 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    biko wrote: »
    From your thesaurus:

    If fascism means "contempt for electoral democracy" it includes every remainer in Britain demanding a second referendum, and also every "Trump is not my president" person in US and probably quite a few posters in this very forum.

    "Volksgemeinschaft"means breaking down elitism and uniting people across class divides to achieve a national purpose.

    This is Communism. So Fascism and Communism agree on this point.

    Both ideologies came to fruition from the same period and economic circumstances, naturally they have that commonality.

    Communism is Fascisms older brother, different but still a relation.

    The outcome is similar.


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    #3323
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Danzy wrote: »
    There are but in America's 300 million + people they number in low thousands.

    Vernacular definition of fascism seems to include any control freak political types, so in that regard I understand why people view Antifa as Fascistic, even if it not correct.

    The day to day reality of their vision would match near enough. It is the mindset that is most common.

    I understand why people call them fascist, but it's simply wrong to do so. It minimises what being a fascist actually is.

    And yes, it's over used by the left. That doesn't make it right.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #3324
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Danzy wrote: »
    Both ideologies came to fruition from the same period and economic circumstances, naturally they have that commonality.

    Communism is Fascisms older brother, different but still a relation.

    The outcome is similar.

    Communism, the political theory, shares nothing with fascism.

    Superficially the results appeared similar because you had meglomanic strongmen who came to power in some communist countries; Stalin and Mao.

    Neither implemented communist theory, Stalinism and Maoism were mutant offspring off communism that disposed of the most important parts to create authoritarian states.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #3325
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,309 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Brian? wrote: »
    I understand why people call them fascist, but it's simply wrong to do so. It minimises what being a fascist actually is.

    And yes, it's over used by the left. That doesn't make it right.

    It's been so overused it no longer has traction.

    It is used to maximize the number of fascists, if you decide to label yourself ANTIFA but you look and see that the main Nazi movement in your country has about 300 members and most of them are in Montana, you have to define others as such.

    They would happily beat you as me Brian.


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    #3326
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,309 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Brian? wrote: »
    Communism, the political theory, shares nothing with fascism.

    Superficially the results appeared similar because you had meglomanic strongmen who came to power in some communist countries; Stalin and Mao.

    Neither implemented communist theory, Stalinism and Maoism were mutant offspring off communism that disposed of the most important parts to create authoritarian states.

    There is something in Communism or those who it appeals to which always leads to the death camp.

    A cold certainty they are right, doing good and when the problems inherent in it and them come to the front it must be down to internal enemies and they must pay. It being unimplementable never looked at, the level of authoritarian control needed may never be achievable, though with tech advances maybe so.

    Power concentrates in top top in communist States more than it does fascist ones and seems to be tougher for living in.

    The right looks for converts, the left looks for heretics.


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    #3327
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Danzy wrote: »
    There is something in Communism or those who it appeals to which always leads to the death camp.

    A cold certainty they are right, doing good and when the problems inherent in it and them come to the front it must be down to internal enemies and they must pay. It being unimplementable never looked at, the level of authoritarian control needed may never be achievable, though with tech advances maybe so.

    Power concentrates in top top in communist States more than it does fascist ones and seems to be tougher for living in.

    Not just communism though. The real problem is authoritarianism. Left or right, the concentration of power in the few is always bad.

    I consider being anti authoritarian to be far more important than left/Right when it comes to political beliefs.
    The right looks for converts, the left looks for heretics.

    Are you sure you mean heretics? And not zealots? I don't really understand your point.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #3328
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Danzy wrote: »
    It's been so overused it no longer has traction.

    It is used to maximize the number of fascists, if you decide to label yourself ANTIFA but you look and see that the main Nazi movement in your country has about 300 members and most of them are in Montana, you have to define others as such.

    They would happily beat you as me Brian.

    I don't think they would. I think they'd leave me alone. Just like they leave most people alone.

    They turn up at far right events. We can debate whether these far right groups are fascists, some probably are, but they are rarely nice people.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #3329
    Seanachai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    Brian? wrote: »
    Communism, the political theory, shares nothing with fascism.

    Superficially the results appeared similar because you had meglomanic strongmen who came to power in some communist countries; Stalin and Mao.

    Neither implemented communist theory, Stalinism and Maoism were mutant offspring off communism that disposed of the most important parts to create authoritarian states.

    If communism without state authority is basically anarchism why not just promote anarchism?


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    #3330
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Seanachai wrote: »
    If communism without state authority is basically anarchism why not just promote anarchism?

    Communism is an end state to socialist theory in which the state is eliminated as it’s no longer necessary. You can’t actually have a communist society with a strong central authority. The 2 are incompatible. But if you’re a mad man like Stalin, that doesn’t matter.

    So yeah communism and anarchism are indistinguishable in their end state. It’s getting from here to there that differs.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #3331
    Seanachai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    Brian? wrote: »
    Communism is an end state to socialist theory in which the state is eliminated as it’s no longer necessary. You can’t actually have a communist society with a strong central authority. The 2 are incompatible. But if you’re a mad man like Stalin, that doesn’t matter.

    So yeah communism and anarchism are indistinguishable in their end state. It’s getting from here to there that differs.

    So under real communism\anarchism what happens the fascists or those who decide that they don't want to acquiesce?


This discussion has been closed.
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