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The UK response - Part II - read OP
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That is like saying there were lots of white people at some of the illegal raves that took place over the last couple of months.
Again, I am not disputing that these are contributing factors, but I just wondered if anyone had a link to data from the NHS or PHE with cases by ethnicity.
Im not sure what you are looking for, but there is no way ethnicity details are going to be released by PHE or NHS, but you only need to see what steps are being taken to understand the issues
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leicestershire-53333186
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-534149370 -
Im not sure what you are looking for, but there is no way ethnicity details are going to be released by PHE or NHS, but you only need to see what steps are being taken to understand the issues
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leicestershire-53333186
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-53414937
People choose to be outraged over nothing.
The reason why people concluded that the Asian community in Blackburn had higher rates of COVID is because unfortunately Blackburn is quite divided ethnically. So much so that the BBC have done two separate documentaries on it.
If there is a higher prevalence of COVID in Asian majority areas of Blackburn than in white English majority areas of Blackburn then that is a fair observation and there is nothing racist about it. There could be various reasons for that. Including socio-economic reasons such as a higher likelihood to be involved in face-to-face contact work than being able to work from home like a lot of those in the middle classes have been able to do.
In fact the higher prevalence of COVID may simply point to inequalities and disparities that are exposed during the pandemic.0 -
theological wrote: »People choose to be outraged over nothing.
The reason why people concluded that the Asian community in Blackburn had higher rates of COVID is because unfortunately Blackburn is quite divided ethnically. So much so that the BBC have done two separate documentaries on it.
If there is a higher prevalence of COVID in Asian majority areas of Blackburn than in white English majority areas of Blackburn then that is a fair observation and there is nothing racist about it. There could be various reasons for that. Including socio-economic reasons such as a higher likelihood to be involved in face-to-face contact work than being able to work from home like a lot of those in the middle classes have been able to do.
In fact the higher prevalence of COVID may simply point to inequalities and disparities that are exposed during the pandemic.
I lived and worked with a large South Asian community for a long time and it is a cultural thing as much as an economic one.
Dad is born in the UK and speaks perfect English, Mum comes via an arranged marriage, never mixes outside of the extended family other than for work, which is often with women from a similar background and so never has to speak English.
Nan and Grandad live in the same house so granny can look after the grand children and later in life, be looked after themselves. That’s why so many schools in majority south Asian areas are ranked so poorly in the league tables, not because the teachers are bad, but because for the first two years of primary education, they have to teach the kids to speak English.0 -
just so you know there is no extra lockdown in yorkshire. my sister lives there and the roads from west Yorkshire to the Yorkshire coast were all jammed yesterday as it was 32 degrees. so despite all the noises from government a lot of people are just ignoring it.0
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ednwireland wrote: »just so you know there is no extra lockdown in yorkshire. my sister lives there and the roads from west Yorkshire to the Yorkshire coast were all jammed yesterday as it was 32 degrees. so despite all the noises from government a lot of people are just ignoring it.
They haven't told people to stay locked in at home, they have told people not to go to anyone else's home. Can still go outside as much as they like.0 -
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This isn’t anecdotal evidence to blame a certain community, there is a real and confirmed problem with certain communities across several regions.
It isn’t politically correct and as we saw from Enzo, the left would much rather blame Dominic Cummings, but the reality is, this is a problem within the Muslim community and it needs to be addressed.
Yeah, not falling for this rubbish. People were following the lockdown rules until Cummings openly flaunted them and refused to apologise. The PM refused to say that he made a mistake and this allowed people to openly ignore the rules as well. We have seen countless images of white people gathering in groups and on beaches and partying in Liverpool and Leeds showing that people in the UK are ignoring the advice.
But there are people more interested in looking to blame one group of people for the increase in cases. You yourself in this post say it, it is a "problem in the Muslim community" as if the groundwork for ignoring the rules hasn't been laid before.
There is a problem in the UK, where those in power gets away with flaunting the rules. This has led all of the rest to ignore the rules, regardless of the colour of their skin or their religion. This has not been helped by shoddy communication from the government where they have once again made it more confusing for people to follow or understand. The fact that there is what seems to be an attempt to shift the focus on one group of people isn't going to change what happened in March and April with Cummings.0 -
Yeah, not falling for this rubbish. People were following the lockdown rules until Cummings openly flaunted them and refused to apologise. The PM refused to say that he made a mistake and this allowed people to openly ignore the rules as well. We have seen countless images of white people gathering in groups and on beaches and partying in Liverpool and Leeds showing that people in the UK are ignoring the advice.
But there are people more interested in looking to blame one group of people for the increase in cases. You yourself in this post say it, it is a "problem in the Muslim community" as if the groundwork for ignoring the rules hasn't been laid before.
There is a problem in the UK, where those in power gets away with flaunting the rules. This has led all of the rest to ignore the rules, regardless of the colour of their skin or their religion. This has not been helped by shoddy communication from the government where they have once again made it more confusing for people to follow or understand. The fact that there is what seems to be an attempt to shift the focus on one group of people isn't going to change what happened in March and April with Cummings.
So large numbers of south Asians wouldn’t be working in sweat shops or mixing in large multi generational groups indoors, if Cummings hadn’t decided to take a drive up north?
What absolute rubbish.0 -
So large numbers of south Asians wouldn’t be working in sweat shops or mixing in large multi generational groups indoors, if Cummings hadn’t decided to take a drive up north?
What absolute rubbish.
You are right, your post is absolute rubbish as it is not what I was saying. Maybe focus on what I was saying and then come back with a coherent reply.0 -
Pubs may close again in UK
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/uk-news/pubs-could-forced-close-again-18700159.ampPubs could be forced to close again so schools can reopen in September, say Covid experts0 -
You are right, your post is absolute rubbish as it is not what I was saying. Maybe focus on what I was saying and then come back with a coherent reply.
It is, you are trying to make this a political issue, which it isn’t. It has **** all to do with what any government official has done, in fact if you read what community leaders and indeed, posters on this forum are saying, it is likely that a significant part of the south Asian community don’t even know who Dominic Cummings is, let alone know that he broke the rules.0 -
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It is, you are trying to make this a political issue, which it isn’t. It has **** all to do with what any government official has done, in fact if you read what community leaders and indeed, posters on this forum are saying, it is likely that a significant part of the south Asian community don’t even know who Dominic Cummings is, let alone know that he broke the rules.
So basically what you are saying is that the south Asian community were not observing the lockdown rules at all. Because, if I follow your thinking here, if they didn't know about Cummings breaking the rules which was news for a week non-stop, they would also have missed that there was a lockdown. It is debatable whether they even knew there was a Covid-19 crises in the UK. Sure, they may know about it because it has reached their previous homes, but seeing as they have no clue what is happening in the UK at all, it could be that they just weren't aware of anything happening outside of their own bubbles.
I stand by my comments, lockdown rules were impossible to observe once Cummings went to his parents home and faced no consequences. This meant people started going to the beaches in huge numbers on warm days. It meant they came together to protest and counter-protest. It meant they would come together to celebrate.
None of this is race or religion specific, but focusing on one community and blaming them when there has been a steady ignorance of the rules since that time is ridiculous.
I find it interesting that you think I am making it political. Its the same with the Russia report and Trump and the virus, if you make it political you are trying to force people to pick a side instead of just focusing on the issues. Very revealing. I didn't bring in politics, you have tried to though.0 -
Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »Pubs may close again in UK
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/uk-news/pubs-could-forced-close-again-18700159.ampPubs could be forced to close again so schools can reopen in September, say Covid experts
Ah, that's probably just because all the teachers have been on the piss since they got their extended holidays in March or whenever. It's the only way to get them back out of the pubs.0 -
Major incident has been declared in Manchester,
Manchester Covid outbreak 'a warning to complacent white middle class'The declaration of a major incident in Greater Manchester should jolt a “complacent white middle class” into realising that Covid-19 is not just spreading in ethnic minority households, one of the region’s health chiefs has said.
Eleanor Roaf, the director of public health in Trafford, said 80% of its infections in the last week were in the white community, and she urged the region’s 2.8 million residents to concentrate “much harder on what we can do to stop the wider spread”.0 -
Is there a thread where we can "Brit-Bash"?
"Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." - Fletcher
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Yeah - I think it's next to the Muslim-bashing one ...StevenToast wrote: »Is there a thread where we can "Brit-Bash"?0 -
Yeah, not falling for this rubbish. People were following the lockdown rules until Cummings openly flaunted them and refused to apologise. The PM refused to say that he made a mistake and this allowed people to openly ignore the rules as well. We have seen countless images of white people gathering in groups and on beaches and partying in Liverpool and Leeds showing that people in the UK are ignoring the advice.
But there are people more interested in looking to blame one group of people for the increase in cases. You yourself in this post say it, it is a "problem in the Muslim community" as if the groundwork for ignoring the rules hasn't been laid before.
There is a problem in the UK, where those in power gets away with flaunting the rules. This has led all of the rest to ignore the rules, regardless of the colour of their skin or their religion. This has not been helped by shoddy communication from the government where they have once again made it more confusing for people to follow or understand. The fact that there is what seems to be an attempt to shift the focus on one group of people isn't going to change what happened in March and April with Cummings.
The high rate among the Asian community is nothing to do with Cummings and that made no difference whatsoever because by and large the general public in the UK are really not that bothered. That is why Cummings is still in a job.
Nobody is trying to shift blame at all but rather acknowledging that there is a disproportionately high rate among the Asian communities. It is trying to deal with some facts and the reasons. As someone who works in a town with a high Asian population (and on a watch list due to high rates). There are several reasons:-- Tend to work in public facing roles e.g. bus drivers, taxi drivers, corner shops
- Tend to work in low paid carer roles in nursing homes and hospitals
Tend to live in built up urban areas
This is then made worse by:- Transmission brought back to the house where there may be 5-10 living under the same roof who all work in similar jobs and it just snowballs
- Poor grasp of English (I have met people in the country up to 30 years who cannot string a sentence together in English)
- Poor health and diet- smoking and diabetes is rampant in the Asian community and a leading cause of death. I believe there is a genetic disposition toward diabetes
- Asians are not great in sport participation
- The cultural norm toward large family and religious celebrations in each others houses and centres
Yes they should not focus on specific groups. You can see (white) large groups gathering outside Anfield which is shocking etc but more Asians are dying and that needs to be looked at.0 -
partyguinness wrote: »The high rate among the Asian community is nothing to do with Cummings and that made no difference whatsoever because by and large the general public in the UK are really not that bothered. That is why Cummings is still in a job.
Nobody is trying to shift blame at all but rather acknowledging that there is a disproportionately high rate among the Asian communities. It is trying to deal with some facts and the reasons. As someone who works in a town with a high Asian population (and on a watch list due to high rates). There are several reasons:-- Tend to work in public facing roles e.g. bus drivers, taxi drivers, corner shops
- Tend to work in low paid carer roles in nursing homes and hospitals
Tend to live in built up urban areas
This is then made worse by:- Transmission brought back to the house where there may be 5-10 living under the same roof who all work in similar jobs and it just snowballs
- Poor grasp of English (I have met people in the country up to 30 years who cannot string a sentence together in English)
- Poor health and diet- smoking and diabetes is rampant in the Asian community and a leading cause of death. I believe there is a genetic disposition toward diabetes
- Asians are not great in sport participation
- The cultural norm toward large family and religious celebrations in each others houses and centres
Yes they should not focus on specific groups. You can see (white) large groups gathering outside Anfield which is shocking etc but more Asians are dying and that needs to be looked at.
It was the Tory MP that focused on one specific group and when it was pointed out this wasn't appropriate there was an effort to focus on that specific group even more. Those that did it with anecdotal evidence needs to ask themselves why the need to do that.
As for the rest, well we will not be able to have a discussion about it because it is nuanced and nuanced discussions on an internet forum doesn't go well. I mean we should start at the racism problem the UK has before we get into your list and why those communities doesn't integrate as well into society, but I don't see that going well without someone starting to throw the "leftist liberal PC agenda" I have at me.0 -
Aberdeen in lockdown - 54 cases. Population council area 227,560
from guardianThe Scottish first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, has said 54 cases have now been confirmed in the Aberdeen Covid-19 cluster, while 191 close contacts have been traced, though she expects that number to increase. Across Scotland, 64 new cases have been recorded; with 36 thought to be in Grampian.
Sturgeon says there may be some community transmission and, while the outbreak may be centred on one city centre bar, it is not the only source and many more are being looked at.
Sturgeon says that, as a result, restrictions will be reimposed in the Aberdeen city council area.
People are being told not to travel to Aberdeen if they are not already there. A five-mile travel rule has been put in place and residents are also being told not to enter each other’s houses. All indoor and outdoor hospitality has also been told to close by 5pm on Wednesday.
The closure will be backed by governmental regulations, the first minister says, and will be enforced if the rules are not followed.
Sturgeon adds that the changes will be reviewed next Wednesday, when she hoped that they could be removed if they could, either in entirety or in part. However, if necessary, Sturgeon has said they could be extended beyond that seven-day period.0 -
It was the Tory MP that focused on one specific group and when it was pointed out this wasn't appropriate there was an effort to focus on that specific group even more. Those that did it with anecdotal evidence needs to ask themselves why the need to do that.
As for the rest, well we will not be able to have a discussion about it because it is nuanced and nuanced discussions on an internet forum doesn't go well. I mean we should start at the racism problem the UK has before we get into your list and why those communities doesn't integrate as well into society, but I don't see that going well without someone starting to throw the "leftist liberal PC agenda" I have at me.
Here is a Government link: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-understanding-the-impact-on-bame-communities
Are you inferring that certain communities do not integrate due to racism? While there is racism everywhere it is not that neat a reason.
You are looking to much into it. 'They' stick to their own. They have all the support within their own community and do not feel the need to integrate. I would actually go so far as to say that they keep it 'tight knit' among themselves.
Rather than turning the spotlight on the rest of society it may well surprise you that certian communities actively chose to 'stick to their own'. Language, culture, ethnic background, religion and economic factors. Arranged marriages within the community is still the #1 way children are married off'..a dowery is still paid. Either locally within the community a bride/husband is brought in from Asia. Mixed marriages are extremely rare and positively discouraged. In fact a man or woman risks being disowned by the family at large if the partner of choice is not taken. A lot of pressure put to bear.
"Here is the wife/husband we have chosen for you."
The silent threat is "If you don't go ahead we will cut of the money tap. We will make your like hell. You will not get the mortgage free house that we have set up for you. Oh and of course we also expect to move it with you."
I would remind you this is not the 1880s but the UK in 2020.0 -
partyguinness wrote: »Here is a Government link: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-understanding-the-impact-on-bame-communities
Are you inferring that certain communities do not integrate due to racism? While there is racism everywhere it is not that neat a reason.
You are looking to much into it. 'They' stick to their own. They have all the support within their own community and do not feel the need to integrate. I would actually go so far as to say that they keep it 'tight knit' among themselves.
Rather than turning the spotlight on the rest of society it may well surprise you that certian communities actively chose to 'stick to their own'. Language, culture, ethnic background, religion and economic factors. Arranged marriages within the community is still the #1 way children are married off'..a dowery is still paid. Either locally within the community a bride/husband is brought in from Asia. Mixed marriages are extremely rare and positively discouraged. In fact a man or woman risks being disowned by the family at large if the partner of choice is not taken. A lot of pressure put to bear.
"Here is the wife/husband we have chosen for you."
The silent threat is "If you don't go ahead we will cut of the money tap. We will make your like hell. You will not get the mortgage free house that we have set up for you. Oh and of course we also expect to move it with you."
I would remind you this is not the 1880s but the UK in 2020.
I am not sure what you are trying to post. What does your hypothetical situation have to do with what we are discussing? As for the report,
Historical racism may be behind England's higher BAME Covid-19 rateA delayed report into the reasons why black, Asian and minority ethnic people (BAME) are disproportionately contracting and dying from Covid-19 has increased pressure on the government to act immediately to address the problem.
The Public Health England (PHE) review, based on stakeholder engagement with more than 4,000 people, says historical racism may make BAME individuals less likely to seek care when needed or, as NHS staff, to speak up when they have concerns about personal protective equipment (PPE) or increased risk.
As for the UK response, the more things change the more they stay the same,
https://twitter.com/FullFact/status/1291018624539471879?s=20
As for Test and Trace, seems like some people are being paid for not doing much right now,
https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1290961849106804736?s=20
Two calls since May? Another message from someone who said they have made 4 calls in that time. Another minister mixing up people being tested versus capacity. It cannot be mistakes any longer and it has to be deliberate. They are gaslighting people in fabricating a version of their response when it is just not born out in reality.0 -
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Not surprised to see cases steadily rising again. While most people seem to be making at least some effort, it's undermined by all the utter knobs who think the rules don't apply to them. Every single time I've left the house since masks in shops were made mandatory, there has been at least one idiot striding in without one, usually with that knobby, belligerent 'what you looking at?' attitude to match. What is it with the British?!0
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https://twitter.com/billykenber/status/1291118308922720259Ministers have wasted at least £150 million buying masks with the wrong kind of straps from a little-known family investment firm, The Times can reveal.
Health officials signed a £252 million contract to buy masks for frontline healthcare staff from Ayanda Capital in April in a deal brokered by a government adviser who also advises the company’s board.
The contract included 50 million high-strength “FFP2” medical masks costing an estimated £150 million to £180 million and amounting to the entire health system’s expected consumption for a year, as well as 150 million cheaper “IIR” masks.
Officials have admitted that the 43.5 million Chinese-made FFP2 masks delivered so far did not meet current standards and could not be used in the NHS, legal documents reveal. The masks have elastic ear loops instead of straps that tie around the back of the head, leading to concerns that they cannot be fixed securely.
London-based Ayanda Capital specialises in “currency trading, offshore property, private equity and trade financing” and has no history of PPE procurement or government contracts. The deal was brokered by an adviser to its board, Andrew Mills, who is also an adviser to Liz Truss and the Department for International Trade.
Ayanda is run by Tim Horlick, a former investment banker. The firm is owned by the Horlick family via a holding company registered in a tax haven.
The investment firm blamed the government for the problems with the masks, saying that the company had only ever suggested supplying masks with ear loops and insisting that this had been approved by government officials before the contract was signed.
Mr Horlick said that at a “late stage in our contract” the government had asked to switch the small number of FFP2 masks not then delivered “to headbands from early loop design [and] we are working with [the Department of Health and Social Care] to try to assist them with this matter”.
The government’s admission that tens of millions of masks were unusable came in response to a legal case brought by the Good Law Project, which is seeking a judicial review of the process by which three PPE contracts were awarded at the height of the pandemic.
Officials have not disclosed the exact price paid for the FFP2 masks but said that IIR masks were selling for 59p to 64p at the time of the contract and Ayanda offered an “extremely competitive price”. If the government had paid 64p for the cheaper IIR masks, that would have amounted £96 million of the £252 million contract, with the remainder paying for FFP2 masks.
Jolyon Maugham, QC, who set up the Good Law Project, said that he was “staggered” by the “extraordinary waste [and] basic incompetence”.
Sir Ed Davey, acting leader of the Liberal Democrats, said: “The government management of PPE in the early months of the crisis was an almost unmitigated disaster.”
The deal with Ayanda is the largest individual PPE contract disclosed by the government and came amid purchases of £5.5 billion.
Although officials cited the urgency of the pandemic as the reason for not requiring normal tendering processes, PPE delivered under several large contracts is yet to be deployed to the NHS, legal documents show.
The other masks supplied by Ayanda are still awaiting further testing, while isolation suits delivered under a £32 million contract with a family-run pest control supplies company called Pestfix are also awaiting testing. So, too, are gowns procured from Clandeboye Agencies, a confectionery wholesaler based in Northern Ireland, which was given a £108 million contract.
A spokesman for the Department of Health and Social Care said that they were unable to comment because of ongoing legal proceedings.0 -
Tory party of rotten boroughs.0
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I am not sure what you are trying to post. What does your hypothetical situation have to do with what we are discussing? As for the report,
He is trying to explain something to you, that you seem completely unable to grasp, or are unwilling to because it doesn’t involve blaming Dominic Cummings.0 -
lainey_d_123 wrote: »Not surprised to see cases steadily rising again. While most people seem to be making at least some effort, it's undermined by all the utter knobs who think the rules don't apply to them. Every single time I've left the house since masks in shops were made mandatory, there has been at least one idiot striding in without one, usually with that knobby, belligerent 'what you looking at?' attitude to match. What is it with the British?!
Have you considered that it isn’t the British that have a problem, but you?0 -
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lainey_d_123 wrote: »Not surprised to see cases steadily rising again. While most people seem to be making at least some effort, it's undermined by all the utter knobs who think the rules don't apply to them. Every single time I've left the house since masks in shops were made mandatory, there has been at least one idiot striding in without one, usually with that knobby, belligerent 'what you looking at?' attitude to match. What is it with the British?!
Before you give out about the British, wait and see what it’s like in Ireland next week. I suspect it will be worse. No one wears them at all in my local shop right now. Literally zero people. And I got laughed at for wearing one this afternoon. Not a chance that there is a good level of mask wearing here in stores next week, law or not0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Before you give out about the British, wait and see what it’s like in Ireland next week. I suspect it will be worse. No one wears them at all in my local shop right now. Literally zero people. And I got laughed at for wearing one this afternoon. Not a chance that there is a good level of mask wearing here in stores next week, law or not
And yet my local shop in Dublin 8 today had all bar the staff wearing masks when I was in there twice, not to mention the various supermarkets I was in the last week from Dublin to Leitrim to Sligo had a huge cohort of mask wearers. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the non-wearers within stores are majorly outnumbered. So much so I barely saw any that I recall with any clarity/certainty.
No way anyone is "laughing" at mask-wearers at this point.0 -
He is trying to explain something to you, that you seem completely unable to grasp, or are unwilling to because it doesn’t involve blaming Dominic Cummings.
What does arranged marriages have to do with what we were discussing? You can point the finger at me for bashing the Tories (wait until you see my reply below, it is a doozy) but bringing in things like arranged marriages is at best as relevant to the lockdown discussion as Cummings starting this all off and at worst gaslighting of the community from posters.A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
Seems like a company worth £100 almost received this contract as well. The person seemingly connected is both on the Board of Advisers for the DIT and Ayanda Capital as well. I guess they thought giving his company that £252m contract would be taking the piss, so they gave it to the company he advises as well.
PPE masks not fit for purposeWe have also unearthed another absolutely remarkable feature of the £252 million Ayanda contract. Matt Hancock’s lawyers have now admitted they planned to enter into that contract with a £100 company wholly owned by Liz Truss’ adviser Andrew Mills and his wife. Mr Mills asked – and Government agreed – to enter into it with Ayanda instead because the £100 company (Prospermill Limited) didn’t have “international payment infrastructure.” Just how much has this arrangement prospered Mills?
Thread Reader
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1291244082145177600?s=200 -
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I am not sure what you are trying to post. What does your hypothetical situation have to do with what we are discussing? As for the report,
Historical racism may be behind England's higher BAME Covid-19 rate
What hypothetical situation would that be now?
I appreciate that 'racism' is the default option of choice for some people who do not know any better. Far easier to chuck that out as a general reason rather than scratching the surface and looking at individual choices and cultural norms.0
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